Support group question

[McCone]

Hello,
I'm looking for a support group related to spouses/partners of BPD partners/spouses or abuse survivors.  Does anyone know how I could find if one exists and how to locate.  I'm looking for a face to face (in person) type of support group.  My wife is a sexual abuse survivor and also has BPD related symptoms.  I could really use some support; if anyone has some suggestions related to finding a support group please advise.  I haven't had much luck searching the internet for a support group.  Maybe someone who works in the professional arena could provide some tips.  I would also consider individual counseling if such a support group is not available.  I would need some place to start though with where to begin in searching for a good fit.
Thank you so much.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[once removed]

youve found the best. welcome to the family.

tell us whats going on in your marriage.

[McCone]

Thank you.  Well, that's a big question and I'll try to answer as best I can yet still being brief.  Thanks for asking.  I'll try to illustrate:  things are fine as long as I don't express my concerns or feelings.  As long as I am validating, empathetic and don't have any issues things seem to go well.  Of course, this isn't a relationship that works for both parties involved.  I would like for my partner/wife to be able to be validating, compassionate, considerate and able to understand where I may be coming from, my experience as a reciprocal relationship.  Like the guidelines on this website for being compassionate and validating.  But, am I asking too much?  Are my expectations out of line for someone with her background?  She's had a very difficult upbringing (starting as an infant sexual abuse and a very (very, very, very) invalidating and narcissistic mother).  She's come a long way and has done a considerable amount of therapy and self-improvement.  It seems to be when I have a need to share something that is troubling me and is important to me where things can go bad quickly (she'll interrupt without letting me finish my train of thought, invalidate, defend).  This can lead to where the only way to be heard is to go beyond a normal conversation and have to fight to be heard.  I don't like this at all.  It's not my character to have to fight to be heard.  There are other points as well that I would like to share but I think this is a good start for now.  Thanks again for listening.

[once removed]

Like the guidelines on this website for being compassionate and validating.  But, am I asking too much?  Are my expectations out of line for someone with her background?  She's had a very difficult upbringing (starting as an infant sexual abuse and a very (very, very, very) invalidating and narcissistic mother). 

its a good question!

validation is a skill, an important one, and not one we are all necessarily born with, or great at; it takes practice. certainly someone who came from an invalidating home environment might be limited in that regard, which is not to say incapable. when we provide that kind of environment in our relationships, the ability can have a lot of room to grow.

so when you say you need to share something that is troubling you, and express your concerns and feelings, do you mean about the relationship, or something external that has upset you where you are looking for support from her? both?

[Ozzie101]

Hi McCone! I'd like to join once in welcoming you to the family.

We're a supportive group here and you'll find many members who can understand where you're coming from and what you're going through.

Relationships with pwBPD can be extremely difficult. The Non (in this case, you) is often left feeling unheard and uncared for just due to the nature of the disorder. Yet, it's so hard to "fill the cup" of someone else when your own cup is empty. And having to fight for a share of the pie just isn't sustainable, as you said.

Do you think you could share in a little more detail how one of those conversations with your wife (where you share your concerns and troubles) has gone in the past? That could help us see more of the dynamics and if there are any tools and tips that could help.

[McCone]

Either.  Could be about the relationship, about something to do with me and how I feel about something (relationship related or not).  As long as it has a connection to me and my feelings it seems to be quite difficult for her.  It's almost like I have become her mom and all of those unresolved issues from her childhood and not being validated by her mom are projected on me.  I'm mom (it feels like to me--i could be wrong of course, just a theory).  The level of intensity can and does shift.  There are times (though rare) when she can validate but usually i need to ask for that.  And it's very difficult for her.  As though she is struggling very much to 'try to do it'.  Treading very lightly and 'walking on eggshells' seems to describe the feeling tone of what it is like for me.

[McCone]

Thank you Ozzie101!
It's nice to be understood and welcomed.  You hit the nail on the head.  Difficult to sustain when the cup is not getting filled.

Good question.  And thanks for asking.  Here's one from recent.  I've been struggling with something that happened in the past and I wanted to bring closure on it.  We've discussed this subject before (how I was made to be the villain during marriage therapy and the Therapist took a 180 turn on me).  I've been struggling with this (the betrayal of the therapist) for years and I wanted to bring it to rest finally.  I brought up the subject and I wanted to state how it had made me feel and what I had been going through with it to share my experience of what had happened so that I could leave it behind.  We had discussed this before and she (my wife) had apologized for making me out to be something I was not.  My continued agony was with the therapist, not with my wife.  However, she would not let me finish my train of thought long enough to know even what i was going to say.  She interrupted (angrily and very shortly, abruptly) and said "I've already apologized for this! you just won't let it go!  You won't forgive me!... .)  These type of interruptions are very diss-heartening.  I wasn't allowed to state what my thoughts were as a result and as so often in a case such as this (where there is a high emotional/feeling investment) there is no resolution and I've been miss-understood yet again and even thought the worse of as a result.   

[Ozzie101]

People with BPD often have very intense feelings of guilt and shame. Even the hint that you might be criticizing them can bring on a strong reaction. Since this was a situation she was involved in, do you think that might be what happened? I don't know how specifically you approached it or what words were said, but it sounds like that triggered her shame and guilt. She likely felt attacked. (I'm not saying you attacked her, just that that's possibly how she interpreted what was happening.)

I understand your wanting to clear the air on something that's been bothering you. However, it may not be very helpful to bring things up years later, especially if her role has already been addressed. If you had to do this over again, do you have another idea of how you might have handled it that could have had a better result for both of you?

[McCone]

Good points.  Thank you for stating them.  Yes, now that you've mentioned it/educated me, I would work on prefacing first how this isn't about blaming or criticizing her and that the general subject is _________ and if she was open to hearing about it for closure purposes, etc.  She can be very critical and if I'm having a 'bad hair day' like I was that day, then I may have already not been in good standing in her eyes.  Then maybe it would have been better to just wait until I was having more of a normal day.  It was one of those times where my cup was low, running on empty.  Probably not a good idea to bring up something big.  That's where the support group comes in.  I really needed some support then.  Having someone outside the relationship to talk to would be so helpful in general. 

[once removed]

(how I was made to be the villain during marriage therapy and the Therapist took a 180 turn on me).  I've been struggling with this (the betrayal of the therapist) for years and I wanted to bring it to rest finally.

what happened here?

[Ozzie101]

That's where the support group comes in.  I really needed some support then.  Having someone outside the relationship to talk to would be so helpful in general. 

I've found in my relationship that talking about big, important things when either one of us is running on low is a bad idea -- generally doesn't end well. And that's what we can be here for. This board is a safe environment for problem-solving, a shoulder to lean on, an ear to listen, etc.

It also helps to read and post in other people's threads. You never know when someone might be dealing with something you've handled before and you may have some advice to share.

[McCone]

Rather long story but I'll try to get to the heart of it.  My wife and I were having marital therapy and she was having individual therapy and I was having individual therapy all with the same therapist as well.  My individual therapy was going well and so was marital therapy up until some point at which the therapist stopped validating me and she began treating me much differently than she had been.  She had been validating my experience and being kind and generous.  Suddenly she seemingly thought my story was not real.  I brought it up with her that she hadn't been validating me.  She stated that she was a therapist and she wouldn't do that.  This occurred at the same time that my daughter also started attending therapy individually with the same therapist.  My daughter also had (has improved much by now) BPD and I'm thinking between the two of them (my wife and daughter) they likely convinced the therapist that I was to blame for their issues.  In any case, there was no room for discussing it with the therapist.  I was thrown under the bus (so I felt) and the ultimate feeling of betrayal ensued.  Although it has literally taken me years to finally know what it was that bothered me so much... .the betrayal.

[once removed]

marriage therapy/counseling is tricky going. it fails, more often than not.

when two partners enter into it with a third party (therapist/counselor), one or both of them is usually set out to fix the other party. a good, skilled therapist, can sense this, not be pulled in either direction, and know their role.

without having been there, it is possible that a couple of things were at play:

1. the therapist could sense that your wife needs more validation than you do. people with BPD traits need that extra dose. sometimes, we over rely on it too.

2. it is possible that the therapist does sense that you are, on some level, contributing to the dysfunction in your marriage, and was challenging you on it. she may have perceived that you were more prepared to hear that than your wife. it can certainly feel like a betrayal to find what you believe to be a good match, an advocate, who then begins to push you. its especially frustrating when we have very difficult partners.

My continued agony was with the therapist, not with my wife

as to how your wife might perceive you coming to her about this:

i know i feel uncomfortable when someone comes to me with an issue that i cant resolve (which is really my own issue). people often think, if we complain to them, or vent to them about something, that we are expecting them to solve the problem, even if we just want them to listen. i suspect she may feel similarly - that the issue is between you and the therapist, and shes not sure how to respond to that.

does that make sense?

[McCone]

Thanks for all of the replies, support and various insights!

I still would like a response though related to my original inquiry (restated here for convenience) regarding a face to face support group or professionals in this arena (see below for more details) :

__________original post below_________________
Hello,
I'm looking for a support group related to spouses/partners of BPD partners/spouses or abuse survivors.  Does anyone know how I could find if one exists and how to locate.  I'm looking for a face to face (in person) type of support group.  My wife is a sexual abuse survivor and also has BPD related symptoms.  I could really use some support; if anyone has some suggestions related to finding a support group please advise.  I haven't had much luck searching the internet for a (face to face) support group.  Maybe someone who works in the professional arena could provide some tips.  I would also consider individual counseling if such a support group is not available.  I would need some place to start though with where to begin in searching for a good fit.
Thank you so much.

[Red5]

  I haven't had much luck searching the internet for a (face to face) support group.  Maybe someone who works in the professional arena could provide some tips.  I would also consider individual counseling if such a support group is not available.  I would need some place to start though with where to begin in searching for a good fit.
Thank you so much.

I would try ‘Psychology Today’... .‘find a therapist near you’... .enter your zip code and there will be a list for your area... .of therapist... .which may lead you to an actual face to face local support group.

I used this to find my “T”, .good luck !

Red5

[McCone]

1. the therapist could sense that your wife needs more validation than you do. people with BPD traits need that extra dose. sometimes, we over rely on it too.

2. it is possible that the therapist does sense that you are, on some level, contributing to the dysfunction in your marriage, and was challenging you on it. she may have perceived that you were more prepared to hear that than your wife. it can certainly feel like a betrayal to find what you believe to be a good match, an advocate, who then begins to push you. its especially frustrating when we have very difficult partners.

I'm still getting the hang of replying to posts so please bear with me.  Regarding 1.  That could well have been true and I can appreciate that.  As far as over relying in validation; as males go I would estimate that I am much more on the sensitive side than average sensitivity in males.  So, likely I am 'over-sensitive' which can lead to hurt feelings.  It's an area I'm looking to improve on yet I think sensitivity is a good thing too so I'm torn.  In any case; and coupling now with 2 -- if this was the therapist's intention it would have been tremendously helpful had she identified this was her intention.  A good therapist would do that I think.  Also, a good therapist would not shut a patient down (essentially saying 'no, we are not talking about how you feel about that because how you feel is wrong') when they are trying to explain how they are feeling (that's a main point of therapy). 

[once removed]

As far as over relying in validation; as males go I would estimate that I am much more on the sensitive side than average sensitivity in males.  So, likely I am 'over-sensitive' which can lead to hurt feelings.  It's an area I'm looking to improve on yet I think sensitivity is a good thing too so I'm torn.

believe it or not, youre not alone in this. a lot of us here, a lot of us in these relationships, are. it is often an element that draws us to powerfully connect with our partners. the difficulty is that its often true for them as well, so the things that can initially connect us can challenge the relationship later on. we often get caught up in those idealization/devaluation cycles, and struggle.

sensitivity, i would argue, is a great thing. it can help us be in better touch with our partners. it can help us be in better touch with ourselves. like with anything though, it can be overwhelming. both perspective, and the tools here, can help tremendously in coping and achieving balance.

In any case; and coupling now with 2 -- if this was the therapist's intention it would have been tremendously helpful had she identified this was her intention.  A good therapist would do that I think. 

to some extent, i am speculating. the therapist could well have been a bad fit just the same.

[Sandb2015]

Welcome McCone,

I've been research the groups that exist out there.  I've seen something called "meetup", in the NY metro area where I reside, there are several BPD groups for those of us that are in relationships with un diagnosed and diagnosed people.  I have yet to go to one, I have time constraints but they seem pretty amazing or potentially so.

In your area, use it to see what's out there and "meetup" does give you the ability to set up or organize a group which is amazing as well.  I would imagine given the stats of how many of us there are, you may find dozens of people desperate to sit with others to talk... .

You do need to filter out a lot of things on "meetup", but I found what I was looking for in the NYC metro area.

I'm thinking that actually seeing other people that are having similar experiences could be helpful.

Let us know of your progress... .

Scott

[McCone]

Thank you Scott,
I appreciate the welcome and that suggestion regarding checking into 'meetups'.  I'll look into that.
It will be interesting to see what shows up.  I live in the midwest (Twin Cities-MN), so it may be significantly different in response than in NYC.  And as you state, perhaps starting a group would be a good option as well.

McCone