He is cheating after all - 2

[Bnonymous]

Part one of this thread is here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=334231.0;all

Thanks, guys. Another wave of pain has just hit and it's a tsunami. It will pass, it will pass... .But it is excruciating, almost unbearable... .And it scares me.

I just wish I knew what to think. I know I'll never know. I know I'm on a hiding to nothing trying to make sense of it. But I wish I knew. I wish I knew if this were the final discard or just a new version of the same old song, just more of the same in a new form... .Why do or should I care? I don't know, but I do.

To just be completely cut off emotionally like this is incredibly hard to cope with. I want him to go now. I want him to get the f**k out of my life now. But... .I wish he'd do it a bit less abruptly. I wish he'd show he's thinking of me and still feels something. Just for a bit. Just for a week or two. Just so it wouldn't be so abrupt, so sudden and total and complete and final... .

I know about BPD. This is not the first person with BPD I have dealt with. And I am used to the splitting and the u-turns and all of that stuff. But I have never experienced anything like this before - going from "I want to spend a romantic Valentine's Day with you" to "I've met someone else. Thanks for all your help. Bye" and "I'm in love and you should be happy for me" in the space of just six days... .I can't wrap my head round it. I really can't.

And I want to be prepared. If I am never going to hear from him again, I want to know that so I know to start moving on. If he is going to come to me in tears, begging for another chance, I want to know that so that I can decide whether to tell him to b*gger off or listen as a friend or... .I don't know. And if he is going to suddenly turn it all around and start accusing *me* of seeing someone else (cos I can well imagine that) I want to be prepared for that too. I just want the impossible - I want second sight and a crystal ball and all those things that I accept I cannot have.

And I want you all to tell me what's going on. I want you all to unanimously agree on some story/version of what's happening and tell me the score. I want you all to tell me which texts were true, which were BS, or what version in the middle is the real truth. And I know that there's a greater chance of you telling me my real true love is waiting for me on a colony on Mars and you've got a spaceship to take me to him.

I want impossible things, in short.

I want to know what has happened and what will happen. And I don't and can't. And it's hell.

And I have no desire or plans to contact him. None whatsoever. But it hurts like hellfire that I couldn't even if I did want to, because she might be there. I don't want to use a line of communication; I just want it to be open. You know?

To be cut off so totally in an instant... .I should have expected it. I should have been ready and prepared for it. But I didn't and I wasn't.

One minute, he was my partner; the next, he's someone else's boyfriend and I couldn't contact him if I wanted to. How can things turn on a dime like that? How? (Rhetorical).

I don't know how to process any of this. I don't know how to ride out the waves. I trust they will pass. I do. But I don't know how to ride them out.

I don't know how to deal with something that I can't understand. How can I process and get to grips with it when I can't understand it? (Again, rhetorical.)

[once removed]

what will happen is that it will get better. i know you know that, but trusting in it really makes all the difference in the world.

im not a big believer in "time" as a healer, but it dulls pain, takes edge off, and when youre going through shock, its all one can do to just get through those first days. for me, it always helped to talk, and to write, until i wore myself out (you have our ears). that, more or less, is how you ride out the waves.

what about friends? now might be a very good time to be surrounded by people that care.

[Bnonymous]

You know how people speak about toddler tantrums as though they're the most trivial things? Well, they're not; they're about small humans having to confront the fact that the world doesn't respond to their needs and wishes, and they signify utter utter terror.

And we get over it. We grow out of it. We come to accept the nature of life and our place and limitations in the world and we make peace with it.

But, occasionally, in adult life, we are thrown a curved ball that takes us back to that place, something that triggers that helplessness and terror that, no matter how badly we feel need something, we aren't going to get it.

And I'm there right now. I need answers. I need them so badly. And I know that I am not going to get answers, that no matter how intense and urgent my need for them feels, I won't get them. And I feel primal terror.

[once removed]

for what its worth, i really believe that in time, things will make sense, and add up. i think most of the time, we do get our answers. waiting for them, when they feel most urgent, is a nightmare, i know.

[Bnonymous]

Thanks, Once. I don't have friends. I have social phobia and (I suspect) autism. And the social world is too confusing and difficult and painful for me to navigate, so I keep myself to myself. And 99.9% of the time, I genuinely like it that way and am genuinely happy with that. It's just times like these I wish it were different.

[Cat Familiar]

His relationship with his daughter's mother ended about seven years ago. Since then, he has had over twenty "serious" relationships that have lasted between a few weeks and a few months. I am the first one that was genuinely serious.


Perhaps you were the first one in a long time who was stable enough to stick with him despite some of his unpleasant acting out.

He seems to have a pattern of discarding relationships and moving on.

[Bnonymous]

Thanks, Cat. Yeah. But stupid stupid stupid me thought we were different. The closeness felt so real and unbreakable. I didn't see this coming.

It has only been a couple of weeks since the last time he said that I know him like no one else ever has, and that he didn't know what love was until he met me, and that if he couldn't be with me he would want to be alone for the rest of his life, because he knows no one else could come close. Just weeks.

And I'd always say the same. And I f**king meant it. And I thought he did too.

And now he's probably saying exactly the same things to her and none of it was real and and and and and... .I haven't a clue how to deal with this.

[Cat Familiar]

And now he's probably saying exactly the same things to her and none of it was real... .

It was likely real in the moment when he said it. But remember, pwBPD often don't have object constancy--out of sight, out of mind.

So perhaps he found someone new, without the history of his dysfunctional behavior, such as you hold, and in his mind he can make a "new start" and impress this woman, who probably thinks he's great and as you remember hearing his ex-wife saying, has no clue what she's in for.

[Bnonymous]

It doesn't help that he is a fantasist and a compulsive liar. I'm not using those terms lightly.

To give you an example:

About a year ago, when his daughter's mother was living just around the corner from him, he told me that she'd tried to kill herself. He said his daughter had found her mom unconscious and not breathing and had called him in a state of panic. He had called an ambulance and run round to their house. He had administered the kiss of life and got her stable until the paramedics arrived. The woman's dad, who had never had much time for him before, had shaken his hand and thanked him profusely. His daughter was traumatised by the whole thing and he was helping her through it.

A few weeks ago, this cropped up in conversation and he admitted that he made the entire thing up. It wasn't even an exaggeration of something real - it was 100% fiction/fantasy.

[Bnonymous]

Yeah, there's something in that, Cat.

After he sent the text to the wrong person, and before he sent me the message saying he'd found someone else, I had texted him:

"You're not a bad person; you're just human. You probably wanted to be with someone who would look at you and just see a handsome, fun, nice guy, and have none of the memories I have. I understand that - I really do."

[Bnonymous]

And, the morning before the "I've met someone else" text (cripes, just realising I told this story with significant chunks of context missing - sorry!), he texted me:

"I am full of guilt. I have to get rid of my guilt, so I've got to go now".

And I replied

"I understand that, darling. And I appreciate how tempting it is to run away from guilt. But it doesn't help. Facing up to it and taking responsibility for it helps; it really does. Because it gives us something we can be proud of."

So maybe he thought he was taking my advice? But... .Texting and calling me in front of her wasn't the way to "take responsibility" - it was unnecessarily cruel and humiliating. But maybe he didn't see that. Maybe he was doing the best he could?

[Bnonymous]

Apologies for multiple posts, but you guys are telling me to keep talking and I'm taking that literally. Because I think it's the best thing for me right now.

One pattern in my head goes like this: I feel anger. It gives way to compassion. The compassion becomes a need to offer comfort. The need to offer comfort cannot be met. There is then an awareness of the totality with which I have been cut off. Then there is fear and pain and anger again. Then compassion... .And round and round it goes.

Yeah, I can anticipate replies. It's not my job to give comfort here. He has to deal with this in his own way and by himself. And this need makes codependent alarm bells ring loud and clear.

[once removed]

i wouldnt go slapping codependent labels on rapidly shifting feelings. id probe them.

[Bnonymous]

I've been drinking again. So much for a one-off, hey? Please, guys, can you not comment on it yet? Give me a week's grace and then give me a well-meant kick up the ass if I'm still doing this in a week's time?

I'm not blameless (be kind to me about this?).

I tried very hard to be compassionate and genuinely ("love keeps no record of wrongs") forgiving. I really tried so hard, but... .

I don't think I got there. I think pass-agg stuff crept in. I don't think I let him forget how much he'd hurt me and in how many ways.

So, it truly is understandable (and even predictable) that he would want to seek out someone who didn't make him feel that way. It truly is. I screwed up.

Now... .I have to ask myself some hard questions. I am torn between two fantasies (just fantasies) of him coming back.

In one of them, I put things right. I forgive him completely. I take care to show him in a thousand little ways that he can and does make me happy.

In the other, I never let the rat forget what he put me through.

Hard question is what would reality be? Somewhere in the middle. It is unlikely that I could ever truly (completely) forgive this latest crap. It is unlikely that I could let it go and get past it. The most likely thing is that I would try to be kind and compassionate and understanding BUT the "you hurt me" stuff would creep in nevertheless. I imagine him asking to hold me and me saying "never say the words 'hold me' to me again - I can never hear those words again!". In other words, I imagine it would never really be forgotten or forgiven. And he would be miserable being constantly reminded of things he's done wrong. And that's no way to live for anyone. So the right thing would probably be to not take him back and let go, for everyone's sake.

[formflier]

Yesterday I had a blow-out. I got rip-roaring drunk. 

Ever been in the Navy... .or the Marines? 

I've had people say that going on a bender never solved anything... .I kinda disagree. 

First day in port after a hard at sea period... lots of drinking.  Couple days later tensions are much much lower... things that were bothering your before are kinda off in the past.

FF

[Bnonymous]

Thanks, FF! 

I feel damned good right now. I know I will crash later and that there are tsunamis of pain waiting for me and the next could hit any moment, but, right now, I am flying high.

You know why? Because I realise I have no regrets about getting into the relationship. I went in with my eyes wide open. I knew that, one way or another, he would rip my heart out in the end. I remember saying to my mom that I knew what I was doing; I remember saying "This is a buy-now-pay-later love at an extortionate interest rate, but I want to enjoy it while I can".

And, you know what, guys? It was the right decision. It was absolutely the right decision. And I can say that even here, in the midst of the most excruciating pain I have ever felt in my life.

It was an adventure. It was my last and greatest adventure and I don't regret it. It has given me some of the most amazing, incredible experiences and memories which I know could never have been replicated or bettered elsewhere. It was a great gift. It really was. Even though the interest is bankrupting me now, I can still say that I am glad I bought in. I don't regret it. And that is a damned good feeling. 

[Bnonymous]

And it gets better! Because I have just this minute had a flash of breath-taking clarity. I get it now! I get where I was going wrong. I was looking for the answer, the truth... .I was looking for one, consistent, coherent, unified answer/truth. And, of course, there isn't one. Because this is him.

You know when he said he loved me and wanted to spend a romantic Valentine's Day with me? Well, he meant it and that was his truth then.

And you know when, a couple of days later, he said he'd got involved with the wrong people and this woman had got him drugged up and sexually assaulted him while he was drifting in and out of consciousness? Well, he meant it and that was his truth then.

And you know when, a couple of days after that, he said he had met someone and he was in love and happy? Well, he meant it and that was his truth then.

And (you see a theme emerging here? LOL) when, the next day, he texted me (not sure if I mentioned this) that he was trapped in a situation he couldn't get out of. Well, he meant it and that was his truth then.

It's all "the truth". I don't need to find some logical way to unify these disparate stories. Because it's him. And he is not logical and his psyche is not unified or consistent.

It seems so blindingly obvious now I don't get why I couldn't see it before.

[Enabler]

You're all over this like white on rice... .

Do not confuse someones reality with The Truth.

I believe there is only 1 truth, formulated with ALL facts and feelings, however each player can have a different 'reality' based on their sub-set of the facts and how they cognitively process things AT THAT TIME.

The truth doesn't change, but peoples reality does. As humans we often look for expressions of people reality (stories, body language, behaviours) to ascertain the truth. On the whole peoples behaviours are a good indicator of the truth... .but in some people these indicators are false or skewed. An extreme example could be that of a woman being chased down the street by a man, she's screaming "he's going to kill me!" and looks terrified, the man looks angry and aggressive. On first glance we may believe that the woman is being chased by a crazy abusive man and he is going to assault her, even when both are stopped she maybe shouting that he's going to kill her and he's crazy... .but then they watch the CCTV and find that the lady had stolen from his shop and when confronted she hit him and ran away, the man was trying to apprehend her. 2 people, 2 different realities... .1 truth.

Enabler

[Bnonymous]

I get what you're saying and I think it's a useful distinction on a pragmatic, working level. On a philosophical level, it's a little more complicated than that, because even "objective" facts such as those caught on CCTV are still based upon socially agreed concepts and frameworks. E.g. The CCTV cannot show things like "shop" or "stealing" because those aren't bare visual stimuli - they are social concepts - an alien could watch the same footage and not see a shop or stealing at all, because he's from a society that doesn't have any notion of property. What I am saying is that there is a level between subjective and objective - there is the inter-subjective level and that's where most things fall.

But, erm, yeah, I'm just getting overly philosophical now, sorry! *grins*

I get what you're saying and, as I say, I think it's a useful working distinction. Let me put it another way, I wanted to know which of the things he said were lies. And now I don't think many (if any) of them were lies. I think they were all things he believed at the time.

Change of subject, but I am now kind of amused at how I will get my "revenge" (not serious here, just being playful to lighten my mood) on her through the fact that I spoilt him rotten - she's going to have to deal with some seriously unrealistic expectations on his part of what a partner should do/be/give. Yeah, it's not funny really, I guess; maybe shows that I wasn't all that good for him, but... .I'm just joking around with this one - I'm just entertaining myself with the notion that I've got "revenge" on her by giving her a very spoilt man-child to deal with. I have created a monster and now she will have to feed it... .;-)

[Bnonymous]

I can't quite believe the speed at which I'm cycling through emotions here (should I be worried about that?).

Have now realised that I don't even care anymore about answers or the truth or whatever you call it. Just yesterday, these seemed like the most important things in the world and like I'd go crazy without them. Today, I honestly genuinely don't care about that anymore. It's not my problem anymore, you know? And that is very very liberating.

[Enabler]

In my experience the cycles will get tighter and tighter and tighter as you oscillate around baseline of indifference. It's called The Crazy 8's as per Tony Robbins. Getting tighter and tighter is better than getting more and more wider and erratic.

Taking some solace from the fact that neither him nor her have a clue what they're getting into with each other is probably pretty gratifying. I've certainly done that myself. One of the best ways of getting revenge is to do what you're doing which is having a good shake out and then cracking on with life... .a really bl@@dy good life without any chaos.

You made my head hurt with your next level philosophy, you had to go and bring martians into the equation didn't you.  

Enabler     

[Bnonymous]

Martians? No, no, I was thinking of Saturnians. *grins*

Thanks.

[Enabler]

Someone's got their sense of humour back   

   

[Bnonymous]

 

I just took my dog for a nice long ramble. Sounds like such a little thing, but it was actually a huge achievement.

[once removed]

maintaining routine, which can feel impossible, is both really helpful, and tends to show progress.

in the first days, every baby step is monumental.

[Sandb2015]

Bnonymous,

I've read your post several times and I can say we the "nons" have experienced that cut, that damned cut that hits us in a deep place we didn't even know existed.  Yes, like you, I'm grateful for that.

My difficulty is trying to project what she is feeling, thinking, planning and so forth... .You must find a way to stop that, it puts you on a hamster wheel when you least expect it and it's hard to get off (there is no truth there, nothing tangible but our fears and our skewed emotions).  I tried the booze, the happy pills and that just stops it temporarily, good for a mental/emotional break, very short term, zero long term benefit.

Distinguish yourself from him, a healthy detachment... .so many tools here and things to read, you aren't alone, there are too many of us in this world.

I'm looking to better my relationship, I'm doing what I can for myself while learning what role I played.  Talk to yourself, write, be angry, have a drink, walk your dog, allow yourself the anger and frustration, forgive yourself (I like you, find it easy to forgive others to feel better inside and clear in life), be kind to yourself right now.

You don't need to come to any conclusions right away and as much as we want to tie the proverbial loose end dangling in our mind, heart and soul, we make it fit so nicely, it's not happening that way in my opinion.



S

[Bnonymous]

Thanks guys.

What I want to do now is confront the question of what I want to (and should) do if/when he comes back. Because it is likely. It may not happen and I recognise that and am not kidding myself. But I don't want to be unprepared if it does. So I want to work through some things in writing and get my head clear.

I can definitely forgive the cheating. I can probably even forgive the dumping me for her bit. People do things for a reason, even people with BPD. There is another thread on this same board by someone contemplating an affair, which shows very clearly how there is always two sides to these things.

He hurt me very badly in very many ways and I couldn't really let it go. I wasn't consistent and reliable in my responses to it. I could be very loving and understanding. I could be very firm (in a positive way). But, sometimes, I could be... .pass-agg. I never meant to be and would never want to be, but I have to face that it happened.

I think he felt like all he was was a burden and a source of pain. For most of our relationship, I took great care to show him, in a thousand little ways, that he was valued and treasured. But for the last month or so, I have sliding into a depression, and that's kind of gone out the window. I couldn't summon up enthusiasm for anything and didn't do too well with appreciation either (and I am normally a Pollyanna sort who is almost talented at appreciation of absolutely everything). I guess he took that pretty personally.

I remember him saying recently how much he loves making me laugh. The usual me would have replied about how much I enjoy laughing with him and how his sense of humour delights me. The depressed me said something eeyore-ish about how I wasn't really in the mood for laughing lately.

Little things... .

Everyone wants to feel wanted and loved and treasured and appreciated by their partners. Everyone deserves those basics. If he didn't feel that with me anymore... .Well, obviously he should have talked to me about that. He should have let me know what was going on and given me an opportunity to respond to his needs. But, equally obviously, that isn't what he'd do.

So I was oblivious to it. I was slipping into the selfishness of depression where I started to lose sight of the effects of that on others.

And he was hurt and lonely and didn't know how to work through that. So he went and got his needs met elsewhere.

And, honestly, I don't hold that against him. I think it's understandable and human.

What I do hold against him is the way he went about this, the apparent indifference to my feelings, the cruelty and humiliation of putting her on the phone and telling me to speak to "his new girlfriend" within minutes of telling me he had one, the cruelty of it... .It's this I would struggle to forgive, not the cheating or the discard. I think, if people love each other enough, cheating can be worked through. People can even take it as a wake up call if they choose to. But cruelty (whether intentional or not) is a different matter.

I do know that, if I can't forgive him, then there is no possibility of working things out. Because it would just be a stage on a merry-go-round then, wouldn't it? It would just be a matter of time till it happened again. Because, if I couldn't forgive him (truly, let-go, forgive him) then all the same feelings that led him to do this the first time would be heightened second time around. It would be a recipe for disaster and an incredibly foolish thing to attempt. If I can't forgive him, then that's that, I let him go and we get on with our lives separately. Whether or not I could forgive him is something it is likely to take me a very long time to figure out.

So, I can imagine your responses, dear readers. I can imagine you sat there, reading all this, and thinking "She isn't asking herself why she was depressed in the first place. She isn't considering that her depression might have been at least in part caused by a bad relationship. If the relationship was bringing her down like that, then she's better off out of it and it's a shame she can't see that".

I can see that. But I don't think it's that simple. I was regressing a bit. I was a depressive in my youth, and a lot of that was caused by a bad attitude and a tendency to wallow - sorry, but it's true. And, eventually, I recognised that and learned how to change it. I'd been backsliding. I could have pulled myself out of that downward spiral if I'd tried to, but I, instead, indulged it, in a very unhealthy way. Maybe there is even something in the idea that part of me "enjoyed" and embraced the victim role? I think there may be. I wasn't myself; I was backsliding to an earlier, far less functional, and far less pleasant version of myself. I don't think he caused it. I think somehow my brain picked up on an ancient trail and followed it automatically. It wasn't his fault or down to the relationship.

Next thing you might be thinking "Why is she blaming herself? Classic abused woman stuff this, thinking the fault lies with her, blaming herself for not being forgiving enough or understanding enough or or or. Thinking her human responses to his abusive behaviour were signs of inadequacy in her. Taking it all on herself and excusing him".

I can see how it looks like that. But it isn't.

I am focusing on me because that's what we do here, right? And that's the most helpful and constructive thing to do. I am not blaming myself in any negative/damaging ways, just trying to look at my part in healing/learning ways.

And would I even want him back if I could forgive him? I don't know and I need to work that out. All the things I have said before about balancing the good and the bad and about how very much good there is still stand. But I may not be able to forgive the way he went about this, and I do know that one thing for certain: that taking him back would be absolutely the wrong move if I have any doubts about whether or not I can forgive this.

And, yeah, this may all be academic, because it is perfectly possible that he has really genuinely moved on and cut off all feeling for me and this will be the last I hear from him. If that ends up being the case, it will have done no harm to have explored these questions as hypotheticals. And I want to be prepared for anything.

[Bnonymous]

I can also imagine "She's too focused on his needs, what about hers? She should be asking if the relationship did or ever could meet her needs."

I don't need to ask that, because I know the answer is yes. It met at least most of my needs; it met the most important ones. And not needs for "someone" - it wasn't "someone", it was him.

There are phases in life when we ask ourselves who we want to be. Then there are phases in our lives where we know and accept who we are. I am in the latter phase and don't plan on going backwards.

I know who I am and what I need and I am past the point of judging that or trying to shoehorn myself into something different. I am a writer and a romantic. I am someone who likes highs and lows and peaks and troughs and intensity and all that stuff. That's me. You may not think it healthy or ideal, but it is who I am. And I know that decades of fighting it and judging myself for it and trying to be different were extremely bad for me. I know that I am much much happier accepting (and even enjoying) it and going with that flow.

I spent so many years in a marriage with someone who was the polar opposite of that and I suffered for it. I spent so many years telling myself what I "should" want, what I "should" need. Sorry (not sorry) but I am never going back to that again. I am who I am and I want what I want, and it is not good for me to fight that; I embrace it now.

And I wanted him. I wanted the intensity and emotional expressiveness I got from him. People demonise BPD, but I am telling you now it is absolutely part of why I loved him. I would wish his suffering away. I would wish the painful frightening sides of his instability away. But I wouldn't wish away the BPD itself. It is a huge part of who he is and it is a huge part of why I love him.

I don't want a non. Let's be clear on that. I don't. I want someone who stretches the human capacity for emotion to its absolute pinnacle. I want that. I love that. I accept the sh*t that goes with it. I make no apologies for that.

[Cat Familiar]

This thread is now locked and continues here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=334311.0