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Author Topic: IDK what to say  (Read 356 times)
awholenewworld

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 3


« on: March 13, 2019, 07:56:08 AM »

Hi there. Yesterday my therapist told me that my mother's behavior which I have been describing off and on over the past few months (new therapist) sounded to her very much like BPD. She suggested I read "Stop Walking on Eggshells" and I downloaded it and have been reading off and on all day yesterday and this morning.

Years ago a different therapist (one who has known my mother social for a couple of decades) tried to tell me that my mother was a narcissist. I blew it off years ago because I couldn't reconcile his observation with my experience of her and because I was not ready to deal with it.

There is still a whole lot I don't know or understand about BPD and NPD but I recognize far too many of the behaviors described in the book to reject it anymore. I am in a bit of shock about this. (Oh, and the BPD and NPD behaviors I've read about also describe my grandmother, my mother's mom.) I am worried about so many things now that I didn't know until yesterday I needed to be worried about.

I am trying not to make any rash decisions until I know more about how to deal with mom and how not to be manipulated by her or at least how not to react to her manipulations. But we currently share a house along with one of my best friends, so things are complicated by not really being able to avoid interacting with her.

I am 47 and have struggled my whole life with major depression and anxiety which manifests in so many ways I'm not sure I could list them all here. I have been unable to successfully hold a job for a while now and never for more than 2 years. (Funnily enough, 2 years was the length of my longest most serious romantic relationship too.) I just recently went through a very bad nearly decade-long bout with depression which I have only recently come out of now that I have finally found a medication that works.

Of course, since the depression which dulled my senses and reactions is now gone, the anxiety (oh yeah, and PTSD) has come roaring back and I'm now working on learning to handle them. For the past, nearly 2 years, my mother and I have lived together and for the majority of that time, she literally took care of me. She did everything - shopping, cooking, cleaning, taking me to doctors, etc.

In some important ways, it was a chance for her to mother me - something she was unable to do when I was growing up because when she and my dad divorced, he got custody, and she was pretty sick and unstable for a very long time. The explanation she has for that and which I have accepted (until maybe yesterday) is that it was a bad hormonal imbalance caused by having an ovary removed in 1977 and the doctor(s) not putting her on any kind of hormone replacement therapy. She kind of went crazy after that and didn't regain any serenity until the early 2000s when she finally had a doctor who recognized what had happened and worked with her to fix it. And very soon after or during that time, she finished menopause and those symptoms went away.

She also began meditating at that time and went back to church, reconnecting with her lost faith. She has done so much work on herself and has gotten so much better that I didn't see her manipulation for what it was. I thought she just had out-of-nowhere, vicious, angry outbursts sometimes when she was very stressed and something small and unrelated would trigger it. I thought she had some weird issue with clerks and waiters and customer service people that caused her to immediately approach and speak to them with anger in her voice and attitude - so I have used my skills as the family "customer service whisperer" to handle any of that.

There's plenty more of her behavior that I could describe but I think you know what I mean and, frankly, I'm still just learning which behaviors are manipulation and which are maybe normal reactions to life. My understanding of that seems to be pretty screwed up.

One of the things that clued my therapist into mom possibly having BPD is how I described a lifetime of trying to manage mom's moods so she wouldn't get angry at me or at other people and so she wouldn't embarrass me with her outbursts when they were in public. Mom's perspective of reality often doesn't match mine or hardly anyone else's. And trying to explain to her a different way to look at something is maddening and futile the majority of the time.

I'm so tired of having to manage her (or feeling as though I have to do so.) I'm so tired of never knowing what her reaction to something will be. And I'm exhausted from trying to do everything I can to remove anything that might trigger her anger if she happens to be in one of her moods - moods she seems incapable of recognizing even when it is extremely obvious to anyone else.

She has for my whole life said things to embarass me in front of her friends. She doesn't see it that way, of course, but that's how I have always perceived it. I've never understood why she does this but now I am beginning to do so.

And no matter how many times I have painfully learned that it is not safe to confide to her things I wish to keep private/between us, she somehow draws me back in and gets e to tell her things like that. I am mortified at what I remember confiding in her over the past couple of years and worried about all the things I must have told her that I don't even remember right now. I am very afraid that she will use those things against me somehow once I begin dealing with her differently.

I'm doing teletherapy with a great therapist right now and she's helping me a lot. And I've just made arrangements to meet with someone in person every-other-week to work on meditation and such as a way to lower and control my anxiety levels. I am also under the care of a great psychiatrist (the one you got me on the antidepressant which finally worked for me) and I've begun being treated by the best gyno I've ever been to - who has put me on HRT. (I had no idea perimenopause was going to mess with me like it has.) In other words, I am getting help from all sorts of professionals because that's what you do when you need it and if you are able to afford it somehow (thanks, dad!)

My other housemate and BFF has the diagnoses of Bipolar Disorder and BPD but he is in therapy and has done a helluva lot of work on those things over many years. He still struggles with some of it, I won't pretend he doesn't, but he is aware of it and uses the tools he's learned to minimize his disorders' effects on himself and other people. I would choose to live with him ANY day over my mother (and that was true before all of this came out about her yesterday.)

He only moved in with us within the last couple of months and I wonder how much of the escalation in mom's behavior is due to her jealousy about how close he and I are.

My knee-jerk reaction to her recent behavior is to begin to make plans to leave her and move with John (the BFF) to a different town where I have resources and family (the OTHER side of my family). Her name may be on the lease to this house but I pay ALL the bills and she can't afford to live anything like this well without me. Not only that but since I've been here she's managed to run up a few thousand dollars in debt on credit cards that she claims she has been using to feed us and buy household items but since I handle (and pay) all of the bills I know exactly how the money is spent. I'm not saying I don't purchase things sometimes that I don't technically need - but I don't do it on credit. And yet I am the only way she will ever be able to pay off those debts and the debt seems to just continue to accumulate. I'm so angy with her right now I'm tempted to leave her with it. My name is nowhere on those cards and I have no legal liability for those debts. If I had the time and energy and cared enough I could go back through the 2 years of bills and add up what was and wasn't spent on our shared expenses but I have all I can handle on my plate as it is right now so I'm not planning to do that. What I might do is pay off half of the debts and leave her with the other half to figure out once I'm out of here. I'm strongly considering that option.

Our year-long lease is up in May and I will decide before then whether or not to leave and how to do so if I do decide to leave. I only accidentally moved here anyway because I couldn't take care of myself at the time. And I've only stayed because I am helping mom care for her 95-year-old mother. But that is a whole other can of worms.

Surely that's enough for an intro post? I apologize for the brain dump. I didn't know how much I needed to tell someone all of this, especially people who would get it. As I said earlier, this understanding of my mother's behavior is extremely new to me. I keep cycling between so many emotions about it and wondering how long I can hide it from her so that once I don't have to address it with her until I am ready to do so.

I have a ton of questions that I'm sure I'll think of as things move forward but my first one is this - since I control the money around here, is there any value at all to me requiring her to get into counseling (with the counselor of my choice, of course)? Is there any chance that would help her recognize at least SOME of what she's doing and the reasons for it? She knows she has an anger outburst problem and she has been unable to figure out why so that might be a way in without having to address any of the other aspects of her behavior that have caused us all so much grief over the years.
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zachira
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Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Sibling
Posts: 3236


« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2019, 11:54:01 AM »

I hear how torn you are what to do about your relationship with your mother with BPD. You are wondering how to interact with your mother from now on. You are at the beginning of a long journey in which things will get better now that you realize that you are dealing with a mother that has BPD. I hope you don't mind my recommending another book: Loving Someone With Borderline Personality Disorder.The author who has many years of experience doing DBT, the main therapy recommended for persons with BPD and their family members,  wrote this book for family members who are unable to do DBT to help them understand their family members and how to best interact with them. I like the compassionate approach the author has towards those with DBT which has helped to lessen the anger I feel towards my family members and gives me hope of being less overwhelmed by my interactions with them from the tools that she provides which make sense to me. You have come to the right place. There are many members on this site who have/had challenging situations likes yours with their mother with BPD. Let us know how we best support you and be the most helpful.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 11:59:09 AM by zachira » Logged

Harri
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 5981



« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2019, 01:40:33 PM »

Hi and welcome.  I am glad you found us and yes, we really do get it here.

It is great that you are doing so much better with your depression!  I struggle with it as well and it is a beast to deal with. 

I think you plan to wait until the lease is up is good as it will give you some time to read and learn and strategize here.  We can help you work through your decision process about the move and about the money issue if you want some support and help.

Excerpt
I am trying not to make any rash decisions until I know more about how to deal with mom and how not to be manipulated by her or at least how not to react to her manipulations. But we currently share a house along with one of my best friends, so things are complicated by not really being able to avoid interacting with her.
We have a lot of people here who have chosen to maintain contact with their pwBPD (person with BPD) and we have tools and strategies that you can work on learning and practice them while living with her.   This will  allow you to see what might work in which situations.

What is the biggest issue you want to work on?


About getting her into counseling, I think you are wise not to mention BPD.  It usually does not go too well when we do though we have had some people mention BPD and it was accepted and they sought help.  YOu may want to check this out:  Anosognosia and Getting a "Borderline" into Therapy

In the meantime, settle in, read , jump into threads.  We all work together to help each other. 

Welcome
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  "What is to give light must endure burning." ~Viktor Frankl
awholenewworld

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 3


« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2019, 12:31:10 AM »

Thank you both so much for welcoming me.

I have added the book you recommended, zachira, to my list and am very much looking forward to reading it, and soon!

Harri, this is all so new to me that I'm not sure yet what the biggest issue I want to work on is. I spent all day recalling her various behaviors over my lifetime which fit so neatly under the BPD/NPD umbrella. I now genuinely wonder how many of my life-long psychological struggles grew out of me trying to cope with her behavior toward me. I wonder how many of her issues are directly from her parents' illnesses.

Up until the last couple of days, I believed mental illnesses were innate, not learned but I'm seriously beginning to doubt that premise. I still think there's a genetic component at play, a predisposition to cope with adversity in particular ways, but I am coming to believe ever more strongly that the dysfunctional programming that f's up our lives is the direct product of our experiences as children and the ways our child-selves learned to cope with whatever was happening to us.

Isn't it funny how easy it is to intellectualize these issues as opposed to digging down into our own feelings about our own lives and experiences?

I don't know how to handle my mother yet other than to pretend everything is fine and normal and that I have not had a seismic shift in my understanding of her and feelings toward her. It feels dishonest but it's also self-preservation until I can learn skills for dealing with her differently.

Thank you all so much for being here and for being willing to share your experiences, knowledge, and hope.
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Panda39
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Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner’s ex
Relationship status: SO and I have been together 9 years and have just moved in together this summer.
Posts: 3462



« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2019, 07:00:44 AM »

Hi awholenewworld,

I also want to say welcome  Welcome new member (click to insert in post)  You've landed in a great place for support, information and tools.  I encourage you to read the posts of other members if you are like me you will see many similarities between your situation and others here.  It was truly surprising and validating to hear so many similar stories. 

I have found so much of the information and discussion on this site very helpful and I love to share that information.  You are at the beginning of the journey having just discovered BPD so below is a link that is an introduction (with links that lead to more information) that might be a good place to start.

Building a Healthy Life Around a BPD Parent or Family Member...
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56281.msg518358#msg518358

There are 2 links within the link I have provided the first leads to the Survivors Guide and at the very bottom is a link to this board's Lesson section.  This is a lot of information, just take it at your own pace.

Again welcome, I'm glad you decided to jump in an join us.

Panda39
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"Have you ever looked fear in the face and just said, I just don't care" -Pink
awholenewworld

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 3


« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2019, 10:49:01 PM »

Thank you for the welcome, Panda39.

I'm still getting oriented here and used to the idea of BPD and/or NPD being a possible explanation of many of my life-shaping experiences with my mother. In fact, I had to take a break from even thinking about it for a few days, but obviously, it's not gone away or gotten magically better while I took a few days off from thinking about it.

Mom and I keep fighting and I keep stopping the fights by telling her to tell that to her therapist. Of course, she doesn't *have* a therapist yet because it's somehow entirely up to me to handle all of her medical stuff so I have had to begin trying to find someone who takes her insurance and is taking new patients. Next week I'll further research the ones left on the list I printed out for her to peruse and then I'll start calling to see how soon I can get her in to start meeting with someone.

I just can no longer be the only support person for my mother. It's too much. She has *got* to have someone else to talk with. And, hell, she probably needs to talk about me some anyway. Lord knows she's the top subject I talk to my *two* therapists about.

I'm so exhausted from all of mom's medical stuff being my responsibility and all of Grandmother's medical stuff being my responsibility and, obviously all of my medical stuff too. I don't even have time or energy for my own things. I barely have energy enough to do laundry or any housework and that doesn't go over well with my mother.

She can't yet seem to see me and our other housemate as equal roommates, adults, and whatnot. She's obsessed with whether we are eating right or not.

You know what, I'm too tired to even go on about any of this right now. I need sleep and lots of it. And I just need to keep exploring this site and reading about BPD.

Sorry for rambling and complaining.
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Harri
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 5981



« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2019, 04:10:50 PM »

Hi.  It is good to chat with you again.  Taking a break from thinking about this stuff is good self care though holding onto a support system is good too so I am glad you came back to us.

I understand wanting her to go to therapy and I think it is a step forward that she is willing to go.  Telling her she needs to talk to a therapist about certain things would, I think, reinforce her need to get help.  How does she respond when you say this to her?

Getting her in therapy is good.  My concern is about you though.     I agree that it is too big to be the sole support for someone. 

Excerpt
I'm so exhausted from all of mom's medical stuff being my responsibility and all of Grandmother's medical stuff being my responsibility and, obviously all of my medical stuff too. I don't even have time or energy for my own things. I barely have energy enough to do laundry or any housework and that doesn't go over well with my mother.
How would you feel about implementing graduated boundaries around your mom governing her own medical care?  Small steps towards taking a lesser role in her care?  You got the list of therapists, she picks a few, you call and set her up, she goes.. then she makes all follow up appointments, etc.  Or is that what you already tried?

Excerpt
I barely have energy enough to do laundry or any housework and that doesn't go over well with my mother.
What do you mean?  What does she do? 

Getting rest is also important.  It is okay to say I can't do this right now too.  We are here when you are ready.  Rest easy.   
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