Positive Experiences with CPS?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I have no doubt that there are some wonderful and caring CPS workers out there. In my experience, however, I have had 3 distinct negative experiences dealing with them where I really don't feel they put my child's best interest at the forefront. Has anyone out there had a care worker who advocated for their child or the parent who deals with a high conflict or BPD ex?

The first time child services was involved was in 2012 when my ex assaulted me and was charged. It happened while our daughter was in the backseat of our vehicle and she was less than a year old at the time. They opened a file, interviewed me, my ex and my older daughter (from my previous relationship). They closed the file and when I expressed concern about the fact that he had a history of violence with women, had been physical once before with me with our daughter in my arms (and was often verbally aggressive), and also that the assault(s) had happened where our daughter could have been hurt or killed, they said that I was acting protectively and they saw no need to keep the file open. And the worker said she was leaving on vacation (I kid you not). So I asked to keep it open since I had concerns about my ex's mental health etc. and she said that she would speak with her supervisor. Shortly after her supervisor called me and said they were closing the file and they deemed me a protective parent. When I passed this info along to my lawyer at family court time, my lawyer's office called child services and they denied saying anything about the protective parent part and just reinstated that they had closed file.

The second time child services was involved was last summer. I had just started seeing a counselor hugely in part because of dealing with my BPD ex. I mentioned his talk of suicide and living out of his truck etc. and she said that due to the nature of everything that child care services should get involved. So we went through the process again. The care worker interviewed me, my younger daughter and her Dad. The care worker told me to keep doing what I was doing and they closed the file. I don't know what she spoke about with my ex but obviously they weren't concerned enough to keep it open.

So fast forward to the past few months. In Feb, I contacted the child services worker I had dealt with last summer to see if they provided any resources or suggestions for child counseling (on my counselor's suggestion). I met with a counselor and explained the challenges I was having with any routine scheduling with my ex, as well as the derogatory and aggressive nature of his communication the past few months. I also explained the anxiety that my daughter had been expressing for the past while. He didn't think meeting with her would be beneficial at her age (7 1/2) so he thought maybe we could try working on a parenting plan with my ex where he could reinforce the importance of routine and consistency. He also didn't seem to see any urgency in her seeing a therapist which I found very odd, especially as he had quite a bit of experience dealing with individuals with anger management etc. Well things turned high conflict with my ex and the moment that happened the counselor said that he had to step out of it all as he wasn't mandated to do anything. When I asked him if he could at least provide a letter stating that I met with him to work on trying to put together a parenting plan, he said he couldn't do that, but that he could ask his supervisor if he could write a letter stating that I met with him twice. But that was it.

So I'm pretty frustrated about this all. I know I've read other negative stories on here about child protection and how they don't seem to do much "protecting" when it comes to children but have others had different experiences? And if there are so many negative experiences then why isn't there more push back against child protection services? I know I had a fantastic EAP counselor through work some time back and he did some past work for CPS (and he was really awesome) so I figured he'd be one of those "good" ones, but I don't seem to hear very many positive stories when it comes to that organization. It would be comforting to hear about some uplifting stories to know that they do happen because in my experience, they were not helpful with our situation in any way.

[StillHopeful73]

I have no doubt that there are some wonderful and caring CPS workers out there. In my experience, however, I have had 3 distinct negative experiences dealing with them where I really don't feel they put my child's best interest at the forefront. Has anyone out there had a care worker who advocated for their child or the parent who deals with a high conflict or BPD ex?

The first time child services was involved was in 2012 when my ex assaulted me and was charged. It happened while our daughter was in the backseat of our vehicle and she was less than a year old at the time. They opened a file, interviewed me, my ex and my older daughter (from my previous relationship). They closed the file and when I expressed concern about the fact that he had a history of violence with women, had been physical once before with me with our daughter in my arms (and was often verbally aggressive), and also that the assault(s) had happened where our daughter could have been hurt or killed, they said that I was acting protectively and they saw no need to keep the file open. And the worker said she was leaving on vacation (I kid you not). So I asked to keep it open since I had concerns about my ex's mental health etc. and she said that she would speak with her supervisor. Shortly after her supervisor called me and said they were closing the file and they deemed me a protective parent. When I passed this info along to my lawyer at family court time, my lawyer's office called child services and they denied saying anything about the protective parent part and just reinstated that they had closed file.

The second time child services was involved was last summer. I had just started seeing a counselor hugely in part because of dealing with my BPD ex. I mentioned his talk of suicide and living out of his truck etc. and she said that due to the nature of everything that child care services should get involved. So we went through the process again. The care worker interviewed me, my younger daughter and her Dad. The care worker told me to keep doing what I was doing and they closed the file. I don't know what she spoke about with my ex but obviously they weren't concerned enough to keep it open.

So fast forward to the past few months. In Feb, I contacted the child services worker I had dealt with last summer to see if they provided any resources or suggestions for child counseling (on my counselor's suggestion). I met with a counselor and explained the challenges I was having with any routine scheduling with my ex, as well as the derogatory and aggressive nature of his communication the past few months. I also explained the anxiety that my daughter had been expressing for the past while. He didn't think meeting with her would be beneficial at her age (7 1/2) so he thought maybe we could try working on a parenting plan with my ex where he could reinforce the importance of routine and consistency. He also didn't seem to see any urgency in her seeing a therapist which I found very odd, especially as he had quite a bit of experience dealing with individuals with anger management etc. Well things turned high conflict with my ex and the moment that happened the counselor said that he had to step out of it all as he wasn't mandated to do anything. When I asked him if he could at least provide a letter stating that I met with him to work on trying to put together a parenting plan, he said he couldn't do that, but that he could ask his supervisor if he could write a letter stating that I met with him twice. But that was it.

So I'm pretty frustrated about this all. I know I've read other negative stories on here about child protection and how they don't seem to do much "protecting" when it comes to children but have others had different experiences? And if there are so many negative experiences then why isn't there more push back against child protection services? I know I had a fantastic EAP counselor through work some time back and he did some past work for CPS (and he was really awesome) so I figured he'd be one of those "good" ones, but I don't seem to hear very many positive stories when it comes to that organization. It would be comforting to hear about some uplifting stories to know that they do happen because in my experience, they were not helpful with our situation in any way.

[worriedStepmom]

In my state, and probably many others, CPS is underfunded.  That means caseworkers have too many open cases, and because they don't get paid well, recruiting can be difficult. 

My H's uBPDxW was a CPS caseworker.  I'm sure she tried her best to help the kids assigned to her, but there's no way she would have recognized that people who act like her were potentially harmful to their families.

In part due to the too many open cases problem, caseworkers have to triage.  They spend time with kids who are at immediate and significant risk, and not so much time/attention with the others.

Your best bet is to make sure that you continue counseling and that your daughter start seeing a counselor regularly.  If your child has a therapist, that person can potentially help make recommendations to the court in a custody battle.  7 is not too young - both of my biokids had been/were in counseling at that age, and it helped both of them tremendously.

[MeandThee29]

Yes, get counselling for your child. That is one of my many regrets. One of my children should have had it long before they did, and it only gets harder to unravel because their brains have buried things that they couldn't process when they were younger and formed thinking that is unhealthy. Then in the teen years you wonder how things came to be what they are. And it's at a time when they are more about making their own decisions and resisting their parents. It is harder to get a teen into therapy than a younger child. Thankfully mine is on the upswing as a young adult.

In my area, CPS seems to be primarily focused on cases of severe abuse. I've heard that they tend to look the other way otherwise and put aside anything else. Yes, they are understaffed.

[StillHopeful73]

I forgot the 4th incident where I called CPS anonymously last spring as I had wanted to inquire about the fact that my BPD ex was intermittently talking about suicide, was living out of his truck at the time (and had our daughter stay overnight in it on one of his weekends despite saying he was at his family's) and was also allowing our 7 1/2 yr old to ride in the front seat of his truck. I learned through researching it that although the safest place is in the backseat, in Canada it isn't illegal for a child to be in the front seat if the air bag can be turned off. A police officer had actually told me it was illegal but then I confirmed through Transport Canada it wasn't.

When I called CPS about these items right away she said that our daughter riding in the front seat wasn't illegal (they had just dealt with this recently) and perhaps I should try talking to him about it (haha). When I told her that I had tried that and he basically said he is a defensive driver, she said there isn't anything I can do. About the suicide she said to call the police/911 if he threatened it or had a plan, but that was about it. And about her staying overnight in his truck she said it was concerning but to contact my lawyer to further discuss. I had forgotten about that 4th useless experience.

Thank you worriedStepmom and MeandThee29 for your replies. Underfunded is a constant everywhere, I think, but you would hope for the workers that they do have, that they would be more effective/concerned. And again, in my experience though they were aware of my ex's struggles it seemed like they were more concerned about his rights than that of the emotional health of our daughter. I question the amount of education that they receive about high conflict or BPD types because it seems like they have more of a mediation type approach of everyone getting along. But how can you get along with someone who at times can't rationalize or who often puts his needs before his child? But I get that they have to put more focus on the higher risk cases since their resources are limited.

I've realized that counseling is a must for me, especially with everything with my BPD ex heating up the past while. And it really does help. This site helps so much also in that people can relate and can provide their own insight based on their experiences. And I will have our daughter start seeing the counselor regularly so that hopefully this will help with her current anxiety and with her emotional development moving forward.

[zachira]

CPS has an extremely high turnover rate. Very few people want to be in a job that involves taking away people's children. I worked with CPS for many years and found that many of the workers were recent hires. I finally found someone in the office who was competent and had been there many years to help me with my cases. Do not hesitate to ask to speak to a supervisor and to inquire about the CPS employee's length of time working with the agency.

[StillHopeful73]

Thank you, Zachira. It sounds like you are one of the good ones who takes your job seriously, and it makes me feel better knowing that there are people like you there. Though speaking to a supervisor didn't help me the first time, it is something that I can request moving forward so thank you.

[livednlearned]

It might help us to know what goals you have with CPS and what you hope they can do for you?

No one will advocate for my child like I do, so I look at third-party professionals and therapeutic agencies as something to leverage.

It can take some strategizing and researching to try and find a way forward. What I found effective was to take a problem-solving approach because in many high-conflict situations that quality is rare. I proposed solutions in family court and to lawyers and anyone providing care to my son.

It is relatively rare, in my experience, for the courts to be offered solutions by a plaintiff/defendant, so when it happens it's a breath of fresh air. I eventually felt things shift from two parents blaming each other to one parent blaming the other, while I focused on twofer solutions: keep my son safe and keep our case out of court. 

[StillHopeful73]

Thank you, livednlearned.

To me I had always assumed CPS was about protecting the child. And it has been explained to me by the CPS workers that they are also there to help support parents so that they can work towards being the best parents as possible for their child/children. So if there are concerns surrounding one (or both) parents then I would hope that they could be forceful about their concerns about the "unstable" parent(s) and/or even implement some kind of short-term follow up with the "unstable" parent. Or at the very least, supportive of the parent that they feel is "protective" or "doing a good job".

To go through the CPS process after my ex assaulted me and to have them close the file stating they are doing so because they see me as the protective parent, only for them to deny that statement when my lawyer's office called them, I guess I'm just trying to understand how that helped anyone. If they did indeed see me as protective, it sure didn't help our case any with having that external third party perspective for support. And it just meant I had to fight harder to protect our daughter.

I guess my hope at any time dealing with CPS would be to feel like they are concerned about the well-being of our daughter. If my ex has talked of suicide, is living out of his truck and thinks it is ok that our daughter sleeps in it for his overnights, has no money to buy groceries, and has documented mental health issues (and is not in therapy and often starting/stopping meds), I would think those are reasons enough to be hugely concerned about her when she is in his care. I had documented proof of all of it yet they had no interest in seeing it. They talk to both parents and then that is the end of it. If the child isn't in so-called direct danger such as sexual or physical abuse then they close the file. And then they just say to the so-called protective parent "Yes, you are doing a great job. Keep doing what you are doing." But how is that protecting our daughter exactly?

When my ex knew that he was going to be meeting with CPS he had our daughter sit in the backseat of his vehicle for a week before and a week after the CPS meeting. Sure enough after that she was back to sitting in the front seat again. I'm sure there are many parents who act this way when they know someone is watching. I realize CPS doesn't have the resources to follow/track parents regularly but it would be fantastic if there was at least some kind of short-term check-in. Who knows, maybe if these parents were held accountable longer than a few weeks, then it might become a habit for some. I know unlikely, but if it even helped a few families by holding parents accountable longer, wouldn't that be a good thing?

I guess I'm just frustrated. I fought very hard with the system 6 years ago to ensure that my ex was held accountable for assaulting me and to make sure our daughter was protected as much as possible, and I'm very fortunate with the current court order in place. I continue to fight for her well-being and due to my BPD ex I will likely have to fight for the next 10 years, at least. And then I have also read other stories on here about case workers or therapists who won't provide statements about a BPD ex's behavior and/or the effects on a child because they are afraid of being sued. It just all seems so messed up to me.

I also look to a 3rd party (knowledgeable professionals or therapists) as leverage but how are they helping me when they don't act like they have my back should we have to go to court. I don't understand how the CPS counselor can't even write a simple letter in the event that we go to court stating that I had looked to them for support on developing a parental plan with my ex. It isn't stating anything negative about my ex or me. It shows at least that I'm making an effort. But the counselor said he would have to request permission from his supervisor to even just say that I met with him a few times. It just makes no sense to me.

[StillHopeful73]

Sorry I prematurely posted.

And thank you livednlearned, despite my obvious frustration , I agree that it is best to take a problem-solving approach. I will continue to do my research and talk to various professionals. I've had my first session with the child therapist and it was very insightful. I know there is info that I'll be able to take from the session even to use with my older daughter on how to be a better communicator in general as a parent. And as mentioned the therapist is going to help me with ways to better communicate with my BPD ex, so that will all be useful. I'm going to try out the Triple P parenting counselor also to see what info/suggestions she can make when dealing with my ex.

[livednlearned]

I am probably overly jaded at this point, not just with the therapeutic community surrounding family courts but also family courts. If an agency or therapist or lawyer or judge or whatnot cannot help, I find someone who can. Somehow, someway.

It sounds like CPS sees a protective parent involved and that is better than no one fending for the child. Maybe they think it's time to move things to the courts? They can only do so much?

CPS also gest false allegations as members here can attest, so it could be that they have a hard time trusting any parent no matter what is being shared. I don't know. The parenting coordinator assigned to my case kept me at arms length until she was on the receiving end of the same behaviors from my ex. Same with the judge. Same with ex's lawyer. All it takes is for them to get a dose of the same medicine and suddenly I morphed into a sane and trustworthy person to them.

Can you remind us what the custody order is?

[StillHopeful73]

The custody order states that I have sole custody. We are to make decisions together on the main items but I have the final say if we can’t agree. We are to communicate via email. He isn’t supposed to drink alcohol or take any non-prescribed drugs 12 hours before or during the time she’s in his care. His time with her is one mid-week night (agreed upon by both parties) after school until 730pm. He has her every 2nd weekend from after school Friday until Sunday at 430pm.

Needless to say I’m very fortunate to have this agreement. And very happy I didn’t settle with my first lawyer.

[formflier]

CPS is constrained by the laws of the state (in the US).  For instance, in a prior state where I lived and was a governmental official "over" CPS the would investigate "beatings" (spankings) of a child, but if they couldn't find a mark, they didn't have "rights" under the law to take action.

They could "offer" services all day long, but when it comes to "forcing" a situation they have to point to something in the law which is actionable.

That said, I would encourage you to keep them involved because case history does matter.  Let's say the 6th complaint is actionable and the first 5 aren't.  They can still used observations from first complaints to make a plan of action in the 6th.

Hang in there..keep advocating for your kids!

FF

[ForeverDad]

My experience was that CPS was always ready and willing to investigate... but unwilling to declare false allegations as firmly "unfounded".  All my ex's allegations ended up as passive "unsubstantiated".  So far as I've been able to discern, those making allegations are treated similar to "whistleblowers" who are protected from retaliation, and from consequences too.

So far as I know she was never told to stop making groundless allegations.  Eventually her credibility suffered but that took years.

While in the midst of my divorce I drove past the municipal court and saw a field of pinwheels prominently displayed on the lawn with a huge sign proclaiming CPS had handled 1600 cases the past year.  I muttered to myself, "I wonder how many pinwheels are there for my ex's allegations?"

On the other hand, my first experience was our first time in family court.  Ex had just been released — I had gotten a temp protective order and temp possession of our home — and she rushed there to get her own protective order against me.  As part of the ex parte case, CPS was ordered to check me out.  I had a telephone interview with one rep.  When we all appeared a week or two later that investigator stood and reported "no concerns" about me.  That didn't stop my then-stbEx from making allegations for the next few years but at least they didn't get conned into believing all the emotionally compelling claims.