Part 2: Wants sex but no relationship

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Mod Note:  Part 1 of this thread is here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=333020.new#new

"What about him is so attractive to you that makes other men seem so uninteresting?"

I don't know if its that easy. But I guess his profession. His friends. His passions. How I feel when I am with him, his scent, his cooking, the things we talk about, the music he listens to, the shows he watches, the things that interest him, the way he looks at me, his hands and forearms, his vulnerabilities. His body, which before I met him I would not have known was anything special, is now the perfect body. His kiss, his touch. None of that ever gets old. His height, his hair. The way he hugs me. His smile.

hahaha.. I guess this is easy. What makes him stand out from other men is that I am in love with him.

[Zemmma]

Mod Note:  Part 1 of this thread is here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=333020.new#new

"What about him is so attractive to you that makes other men seem so uninteresting?"

I don't know if its that easy. But I guess his profession. His friends. His passions. How I feel when I am with him, his scent, his cooking, the things we talk about, the music he listens to, the shows he watches, the things that interest him, the way he looks at me, his hands and forearms, his vulnerabilities. His body, which before I met him I would not have known was anything special, is now the perfect body. His kiss, his touch. None of that ever gets old. His height, his hair. The way he hugs me. His smile.

hahaha.. I guess this is easy. What makes him stand out from other men is that I am in love with him.

[Cat Familiar]

He sounds like he meets all your needs, other than not wanting a relationship.

[formflier]

I'm wondering if he is fine with "relationship"...as long as it is not acknowledged.

It sounds like you "do" the things people in r/s "do"...but there is not an official thing.

Am I close?  (I may not be..still trying to wrap my head around this)

FF

[holdthedramaxo]

Hello,

I can totally relate to this. My fiance actually told me once that sex is the main reason he is with and stays with me. That if the sex went away or got bad, he would leave. My fiance also splits a lot. One day he needs me and loves me, the next day he values independence, autonomy and doesn't need/want a relationship with me (or anyone at all). I've learned what is a BPD thought and what is his true self speaking. However, it always comes down to our boundaries and limits and what he can and cannot accept. If you've been seeing a pattern, I'd assume there is truth and validity to that. The BP partner is fighting for control. And every time you give in to the sex, you give to him and thus - he devalues you. It's a toxic cycle. I know how endearing our partners can be and when it's good - it's good. You almost forget about the drama but it always finds its way back to us. It never goes away. I'd suggest having a talk and exerting your wants and needs and re-evaluate then.

[Zemmma]

UPDATE!!!!

The last post on this was April 2019. By July 2019 we were back into a relationship. He apologized for everything and took a lot of responsibility for leaving me, again. We stayed together for 4.5 years. We built up our life, got our kids involved with each other, started really getting to know extended family, really enjoyed and spent a lot of time with the friend group. He learned to bite his tongue about all of the darkness inside. He relied heavily on alcohol to do so. I didn't think the darkness was all about me anyway, I just accepted that was who he is. He struggles with what he views as his failures in life and his finances. He still had black and white thinking at times, always talked of "fault and blame," constantly misunderstood me and took great offense if I said the wrong thing or looked at him the wrong way (which was easy to do when he was drinking so heavily). We really changed our lives to avoid conflict. I stopped sleeping overnight at his place because if he was drinking, which he would be any night he saw me/ didn't have his kid around, a) he wouldn't go to bed until dawn anyway and b) he got non-sensical after about 15 drinks (shock). I learned to see the signs (him getting ridiculously drunk) and I'd just go home. If we went away for a weekend and had one conflict or grumpy moment, he would think the whole trip was ruined. If we went out with certain friends and there was any issue, suddenly he'd say we just won't ever go out together with those friends any more. Big blanket fixes. He'd also hold on to every bad feeling he ever got, and could repeat back all the times I made him feel bad. Things were exaggerated. If he behaved badly (e.g. said something horrible when drinking) and I reacted, it was never his behaviour that was in question, it was always my reaction that made HIM feel bad. That was some of the underlying stuff. But mostly we were good. He was good and I was happy (...of course, he was always disgruntled that I was happy when he was always quite miserable under the surface). He was jealous that I was getting what I wanted and he was not.

Well SURPRISE! He broke up with me out of the blue a month ago. He said he always told me how miserable he was in the relationship and I shouldn't be surprised, but I was like, "Dude, you always say those things!" I can't focus on negativity all the time. So ya, things were overall stable for 4.5 years (us living in our respective homes). He seemed a lot better.

Two points I want to make:
1) He left anyway! Stop thinking about what they said or you did to end it. They were going to do it anyway, eventually. This time it was so mild. He was searching so hard to find a fight so he could end it! He also started talking about boredom again. "We are bored in the relationship." That's what he feels in the absence of conflict. Deathly boredom. He needs drama and elation, and pain to feel alive- to not feel empty inside. God forbid things were normal for a heartbeat.

2) The 4.5 years of relative stability in our relationship was healing for me. My original trauma bond is gone! I was sad when he left. I wanted him, and still love him. But I don't need him anymore. I have somehow returned my sense of safety to me, when it used to live in him. I was so shocked when I didn't panic when he left. That I was okay and calm. It was very freeing. I am sad. I miss him. But I am okay, even hopeful. I had started to lose respect for him at the end (probably when he was thinking of ending things and no longer trying to please me)- maybe I had some growth. I am tired of his distorted thinking, his alcoholism, his constant need to express contrary views, his darkness, negativity, his "life sucks" default.

He will never be happy. In or out of a relationship. He has happy moments but he can't maintain an inner happiness or peace. My default is happy. I will be okay. This time he can really just go. I still hope to find something else.. I want to live life and have joy!

[ForeverDad]

Wow.  It is good that there was resolution.  It was difficult, not exactly what you wanted, but now with the passage of time you're in a better place and can Accept the outcome.

Today is the start of a new day, the rest of your life.
 

[Zemmma]

Thanks ForeverDad... It's a real challenge. I have never been a LEAVER. I always try to make it work and do all sorts of gymnastics to keep someone in my life that I love. But that sometimes means I let then manipulate, disrespect and bust my boundaries. I don't hold a grudge. I just hope my anger and memory stay in tact if/when he comes around again. Looking backing over these years of coming and going (posted on this board, by me) there is really no reason I should imagine he won't swoop back in at some point. I hope I can beat him to the punch. Build a better life before he comes back in and tries to tempt me again.

[Cat Familiar]

Zemma, I’m very impressed by your clarity of thought. I’ve had very similar experiences with my husband’s alcohol abuse and recently it occurred to me if I knew then what I know now, back when we first got together, I would have broken it off and given him an ultimatum: either control the alcohol use to what is a healthy level or I’m gone.

As it currently is, he had a stroke (I’m convinced due to his bad habits) and now he’s totally disabled, so I’m now a caregiver in another fashion. 

“I didn't think the darkness was all about me anyway, I just accepted that was who he is. He struggles with what he views as his failures in life and his finances. He still had black and white thinking at times, always talked of "fault and blame," constantly misunderstood me and took great offense if I said the wrong thing or looked at him the wrong way (which was easy to do when he was drinking so heavily). We really changed our lives to avoid conflict.”

Smart of you for realizing that was who he was and not personalizing it. It took me a long while to get there. Like you, I quit sleeping with my partner when he was drunk, which was a nightly occurrence. The snoring, when he did finally go to bed, made it impossible for me to get a good nights sleep.

If we went away for a weekend and had one conflict or grumpy moment, he would think the whole trip was ruined.

Just like in your experience, my husband makes these sweeping generalizations and a slight tiff or difference of opinion can be interpreted by him as a “big fight.”

“If he behaved badly (e.g. said something horrible when drinking) and I reacted, it was never his behaviour that was in question, it was always my reaction that made HIM feel bad.”

The blame shifting is truly remarkable, isn’t it?

 

[Zemmma]

Cat Familiar,
I am so sorry to hear about your husband's stroke! That is horrible on top of everything you have described. Life sure has some punches to throw. I wish you the very best in learning to cope and recover from some of this.

I am trying to move on, but of course it is difficult. We share some of the same friends and so I hear some things about him. The loss of that friend group (with us both included) is something real to grieve on top of the relationship. I am trying to develop other friendships but it is more difficult to find people who want to regularly get together in a group, as I am a little older.

I haven't reached out to him at all, and he has only made a couple little nothing gestures to let me know he is still breathing (liking an old photo of us on a family member's page). This time feels beyond repair.

I do catch myself trying not to hope he will reach out. Trying not to care if he is happy or miserable. I find it INCREDIBLY hard to detach. I imagine full conversations we will have: all sorts of outcomes or scenarios, and I see I am still invested in them. I miss the good parts of him. There were as many good as there were bad- and being an optimist/happy person means I focused on the good.

I want to get to "meh." Indifference. Not sure how to get there at this point. Losing him is painful. At least all of the battles about this are just in my head at this point, and not playing out with the added dose of his dysfunction.

[Zemmma]

Cat Familiar,
Also- Sam Vaknin does an amazing video about Cluster B personality disorders and alcohol use. Its available at:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-21DslPiQSo

It blew my mind.

When you said you would have given your husband an ultimatum, I was reminded of this. My BPD ex LOVES alcohol. He will NEVER give it up. This video explains why and for him, it totally checks out. He always made it clear that the drunk him, was the real him. He hated life when sober, and alcohol was magic to him. Took away the horrible thoughts in his head, gave him confidence. Made him happy. Made him grand.

It even explains the hangover and return to sober self. My BPD ex was horrible the day after. Just so contentious and mean to me. Starting fights, hating life. No one has ever explained any of this so well.

[Cat Familiar]

Zemma, that video explains it so well! Thanks! 

I’ve recently come to realize that rather than dealing with BPD, my husband is more likely a covert narcissist. I was fooled by the self flagellation and insecurity in someone who comes across so confident and polished. But this video certainly explains what the draw of alcohol was for him.

Now that he doesn’t drink, his compulsion is to collect books (that he doesn’t read), to the point of hoarding.

It’s taken me a long time to get to the “meh” phase. I think what has helped is to look at the entirety of the relationship with clear eyes. I’m typically such an optimist that I can be deluded by wishful thinking, hoping for the best, and disavowing the worst.

[Zemmma]

Yes, me too. I am not even sure I care if I've been fooled. Fool me again! I enjoyed the experience, even if he was faking all of the best times. In previous breakups I would chase him. Send him loads of smiling pictures to prove we were happy together. But alas, he would say he was smiling only on the outside. That for every photograph, every weekend away, there was a bleak story, a horrible fight or internal conflict, that I may not have even known about, or that I did and I am forgetting.

Covert narcissist, borderline, etc.. Not sure if you saw the whole video, but Sam Vaknin suggests these may all coexist in one person, depending on the mood, supply, life circumstances, state (as in, with drugs, alcohol, etc.). Never mind the labels- It's easy enough to see the behaviours in the descriptions and stories of others. Easy to see when things are toxic/ unhealthy.

[Cat Familiar]

Covert narcissist, borderline, etc.. Not sure if you saw the whole video, but Sam Vaknin suggests these may all coexist in one person, depending on the mood, supply, life circumstances, state (as in, with drugs, alcohol, etc.). Never mind the labels- It's easy enough to see the behaviours in the descriptions and stories of others. Easy to see when things are toxic/ unhealthy.

The video you suggested was so helpful. I watched another one where he talks about how people can transition through the different Cluster B diagnoses. That completely jibes with what I learned from the psychologist who saw my husband and me for marital counseling, and later just me for individual counseling.

When she said that, I remembered that he presented more like a narcissist when we saw her together, then more like a borderline in the privacy of our home.

Like you, I really enjoyed the good times. At this point, I’m rather jaded and wary. I’ve lost a tremendous amount of respect for him, yet I still harbor some fondness for him as a person, just not as a spouse. I’m not going anywhere and as far as I know, neither is he. It would take a Herculean effort for him to do so, considering how disabled he is.

I’ve been managing to rebuild my life alone, do things that are fulfilling, spend time with friends, and focus on things outside of the chaos that individuals with Cluster B diagnoses bring. He is who he is and I had hoped that I’d finally found someone to be a true partner…but it was all smoke and mirrors.

[kells76]

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