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Question: Do you know someone with a PD who has poor personal hygiene ?
Yes - someone with BPD - 6 (75%)
Yes - someone with NPD - 1 (12.5%)
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Author Topic: BPD / NPD and personal hygiene.  (Read 1029 times)
HappyChappy
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« on: April 12, 2019, 04:58:48 AM »

My question to you is, do you know someone with NPD or BPD who has poor personal hygiene ? Julian Assange was recently labeled a Narcassist by a ruling Judge who backed it with plenty of evidence. Assange was also outed as having questionable personal hygiene, by multiple credible sources. I had assumed that someone who was image conscious and full of self love, would have good personal hygiene ? Then I remembered a Covert NPD I know, who doesn't.

Assange would eat with his hands and wipe them on his trousers. He is certainly image conscious. He’s going for the waif look currently, as he last form of defence. Julian also displayed a lot of childish behaviour – could that be it ? The only other explanation is he is a Covert Narcassist (as is my bro). Hence his penchant for subterfuge, sabotage, hacking and general spy like behaviour. Also notably his raging paranoia. Coverts are considered the most dangerous, due to their skills at being undetected, and their need to constantly attack in the most devastating way. This all fits Assange.

He also smeared his faeces on the walls of his host embassy, towards the end when communication broke down. A covert works hard to continually disrespect his enemies.  Again that could be a mix of him escalating and child like behaviour.

The other interesting point is the company he kept, was very NPD. He supported Trump by hacking Hillary. The Pamela Anderson thing ! His list of Narky cohorts (as apposed to sponsors) is long.

What are your views ? Do you know someone with a PD who has poor personal hygiene ? If you answer yes, it would be helpful if you posted details. This is clearly unscientific in a very wikki way, but I doubt Assange would mind being talked about and its Friday.
 
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Deb
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« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2019, 08:04:02 AM »

That would be my dBPD sister.  She would never brush her teeth.  Her front teeth rotted. She had caps now, but I remember how bad they were.  I haven't spoken to her in 20 years, so I don't know how things are now.

On a side note, it's interesting that Assange was diagnosed as a narc. I was thinking he was,  just by his actions.
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« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2019, 08:55:28 PM »

My mother lived in her hoard house.  She reeked of mildew/ mold, cigarette smoke and dog piss. It was horrible.  My ex was no peach, but I could see her fuming underneath given her sensitivity to scents.

I offered to wash her jacket when she would visit.  She would get offended.  "Oh you and your 'smell!'"  She gave me a bag of toddler clothes once.  All they did was sit I  a bag in her house.  I had to wash them four times to rid them of the stench. After two times I thought they were ok,  but my son complained.  Washed again, with a little bleach. I had to wipe or toss books she brought which reeked.

Interestingly,  when she had her hysterectomy about a decade ago,  they kept her in the hospital for three days.  She was clean and then admitted that her clothes did stink. They washed them for her. 

I could never detect body odor because the other smells were so rank.  I believe the word for you HC might be "foetid."
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Notwendy
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« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2019, 06:54:04 AM »

My mother is the opposite. Her home is so clean you could eat off the floor. She doesn't clean it- she has household help. We are not allowed to touch anything or mess anything up. Her kitchen is spotless and I don't dare cook in it or there could be a crumb on the floor. Her pots and pans that she's had for decades look brand new. That's because she doesn't use them and I don't dare to touch them.

She's always been exquisitely groomed and dressed.

Me? I keep things clean but admittedly, I'm on the messy side at home. Casual clothing. I've gone through several sets of pots and pans because I use them and cook a lot so the kitchen gets messy. I do have good hygiene and clean clothes. I just don't have it all at BPD mom's standard. I think I tend to the messy side as a way of being different from her.
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zachira
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« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2019, 04:59:18 PM »

My mom with BPD and NPD is also obsessed with cleanliness and control. Before she needed health assistants and did her own cooking, she got upset if anybody cooked in her kitchen and demanded that everybody eat quickly so we could clean up. The year my brother was dying of cancer and we knew this would be our last Christmas Eve meal with him, we sat there enjoying the meal while she went into the kitchen to clean up as soon as she finished eating. With BPD and NPD, it is always about extreme behaviors.
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« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2019, 08:05:03 PM »

These sound like OCD behaviors.
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HappyChappy
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« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2019, 02:24:24 AM »

I believe the word for you HC might be "Foetid."
We’re not supposed to use our real names on here Turk !  Or should I say Mr Constantinople. Out of 75 thousand members no one has yet stated they don't know a BPD with bad hygiene. Is this down to the borderline between self love and self loathing ? It's in stark contrast the high functioning NPD you get down the gym.
That would be my dBPD sister.  She would never brush her teeth.  
Same with my bro. Also my BPD mom said she had 19 filling first time she could afford a dentist, or was it 21. Would you believe that ?
My BPD mom and NPD is also obsessed with cleanliness and control.
My mom was obsessed with tidiness, not cleanliness (she avoided housework). It was all about Image .

Your mum Turk seemed more on the self loathing side ? Does that fit ? Did you see aspects of a grandiose self image or self love ?
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Notwendy
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« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2019, 08:34:34 AM »

My mom leans to the NPD side. I don't see her behaviors as being OCD. I think they are part of externalizing her self image and black and white thinking. If her home is spotless, then she's good, but one crumb on the floor and her sense of self is all bad and she dysregulates.

It goes along with her need to appear perfect. Hair, nails, makeup, clothing. She also had to be perfectly trim. She projected this on to me as a kid. I think this is one reason I preferred to be outdoors and active, in jeans as what she did didn't appeal to me. Yet, if we were doing something with her family - I felt pressure to "look perfect" too as she cared about how they perceive her.

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HappyChappy
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« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2019, 02:08:58 AM »

Her home is so clean you could eat off the floor. She doesn't clean it- she has household help. We are not allowed to touch anything or mess anything up.  
Hey NotWendy, my mom was similar. Everything had to be tidy. But really it was tidiness not cleanliness. It was all about how it appeared. We had to open our curtains at 7am even at the weekends, so the neighbours didn’t think we were being lazy. We couldn’t sit on made beds, as it would mess them. We had to take our shoes off, and she went crazy over the slightest mess.

Rather than help she had me and my bro do the house work. You know she worked hard to appear hard working, but did next to nothing, lazy. The way she explained her obsession was simply thats how she was brought up. She clearly had this idea that having a tidy house made her a domestic goddess and good mother, even if she got her kids to do most the work. We also had spare room guest room, whilst my bro and I share a bed room. Never had a guest – but she just like telling people we had a guest room,  sounded posh. But like your mom NotWendy, it was all about appearances. So if it was OCD, then the compulsion was an obsession over appearances and image. Like you, I went the other way, jeans outdoors.
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« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2019, 04:41:08 AM »

I believe that pwBPD or pwNPD will react differently depending on their life experiences, who they live with and what causes them emotional pain.

For example. My W is always immaculate, she wouldn't dare drop the kids off to school in a pair of tracky bottoms and Ugg boots and never leaves the house without some form of makeup and styled hair. That's her mask and she get positive reinforcement for that. However, cleaning the home does nothing for her (to an extent), it's not emotionally rewarding and in fact I'd go as far to say that it's emotionally unrewarding especially when you have 3 young girls who immediately trash the place. So in simple terms, she only does things that are emotionally gratifying.

My MIL on the other hand must get something out of cleaning... she cleans constantly and her house is immaculately tidy and she fusses over the smallest of marks/spots. Her home is her mask and I believe the cleanliness and order of the home covers up the chaos of her head. She is similarly very dress conscious and will typically bring 5 sets of change of clothes just to look after the kids for an afternoon.

Both are very much in the "I can't be WRONG, everyone else must be wrong and against me" camp as apposed to the "I am wrong, I am broken, I'm a terrible person" camp.

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« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2019, 03:25:55 PM »

YES! My uBPD MIL has not brushed her hair for over 7 years (that's as long as I've known her). Her hair is one big rat's nest. She also does not bathe or brush her teeth and has worn the same strange, mismatched clothing daily for 10+ years. People mistake her for a homeless person and offer her free food at restaurants. Numerous family members have given her hundreds of dollars at different times to go to a hair salon and get her hair fixed. She pockets the money and avoids the salon. My husband and I set an appointment for her on a day that she was visiting us, with a hair dresser who knew the situation and scheduled her for a late appointment so nobody else would be there. She suddenly found a reason to leave early to avoid going to the salon. This part of her personality does not fit, as she is overly critical of others, including my husband (her son) about his hair and appearance, but she does not practice what she preaches.
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HappyChappy
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« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2019, 02:11:24 AM »

My W is always immaculate...My MIL on the other hand must get something out of cleaning... she cleans constantly.
My BPD made a big fuss about being tidy - but she wasn't clean. She cared about appearances. Also people with BPD have a week sense of self. So with my BPD being tidy made her an epic housewife (in her eyes) does your MIL use her cleaning prowess to elevate her stature ? My BPD was also a social climber, so if she perceived someone to be important, she would look pristine otherwise not.
YES! My uBPD MIL has not brushed her hair for over 7 years
Could that be her way of getting narcisstic supply, by playing the waif ? I understand that if a BPD can’t get attention by being good, they’ll get it by being bad or shocking. Her hair is her thing, her identity ? If you lack a strong sense of self, then crazy hair is an identity.

It does appear that this lack of personal hygiene is part of the borderline thing, the self loathing. As is the case with a covert Narcassist. My bro is very wealthy and yet he’s lived in some absolute hovels. The bits you can see he keeps shinny, but scratch the surface and you see his neglect. 

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« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2019, 02:32:06 AM »

My uBPD person just doesn't seem to be aware half the time - he does sometimes get upset with himself because of his lack of..what? Self discipline? He doesn't know and neither do I. But it is a definite trait.
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« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2019, 04:41:37 AM »

Me thinks the personal hygiene things is a reflection of 2 things.

Firstly, an individuals feelings about oneself... having the mindset of depression where I don't matter and no one cares about me would lead someone to not care for their personal hygiene or appearance... I mean why bother right! This would fit more appropriately to those people who you might consider to be more Waif or Hermit. They are down on themselves and although self absorbed, they aren't looking to improve their situation. "I don't deserve anything, I'm helpless to get better for myself, it's everyone else's fault."... having a mindset of anger or more NPD traits or entitlement might lead an individual to believe they deserve the best of everything, everything needs to be perfect, they need to be perfect else they are 'wrong', 'bad'. In this example a pwBPD might go to great lengths to achieve the perfect appearance, breast enlargements etc etc for them this is a need.

This leads me on to my second reason... shame. People associate shame with different things. It's been said that pwBPD feel like people can see straight through them and see who they really are. They believe that people can see the 'bad' person they really are so go to great lengths to cover up 'the bad'. This could be a personality mask, this could be a physical appearance mask or could be a mask of a perfect home. Maintaining the picture of perfection to the outside world becomes imperative else people may catch a glimpse of the their 'true inner ugliness' (perceived). I have observed that my W goes in cycles regarding how she wants to keep our home. On occasions she's very clean and tidy and goes on cleaning binges, these are periods when she's investing in the family and our home. At other times she almost purposefully makes the place a tip, almost as an external expression of her inner discontent with the relationship or inner emotional chaos. It takes emotional effort to clean a house only for it to get dirty again. If one was depressed with one's situation, one wouldn't be inclined to invest that emotional energy into cleaning.

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