Processing Everything 2

[Depression = 72% of members]

Today I was feeling a bit better earlier, but then I saw her send a message to the university group chat that we are in. And now all my feelings have come back, and that’s just from seeing her name on a screen. I feel so pathetic coming and talking about this AGAIN. It feels like these feelings are just here to terrorise me. I can’t see how I’m going to cope seeing her. I don’t feel like there’s any way to heal from any of this when she is going to be there, and is everywhere, on my phone when we’re not even speaking to each other. I feel trapped, by these stupid feelings. By her, by the situation (even though there really isn’t one any more.)

[clvrnn]

Today I was feeling a bit better earlier, but then I saw her send a message to the university group chat that we are in. And now all my feelings have come back, and that’s just from seeing her name on a screen. I feel so pathetic coming and talking about this AGAIN. It feels like these feelings are just here to terrorise me. I can’t see how I’m going to cope seeing her. I don’t feel like there’s any way to heal from any of this when she is going to be there, and is everywhere, on my phone when we’re not even speaking to each other. I feel trapped, by these stupid feelings. By her, by the situation (even though there really isn’t one any more.)

[JNChell]

Its a real struggle to process these relationships. Is it completely necessary for you to attend the event that she’s going to be at? You really need your space away from her if it’s possible. I’m not sure if you’ve read this article, but it’s about managing our emotions. Here’s a link. https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind

If you don’t really have to go to the event, don’t. I’ve not read up to this point, so please forgive me if I’m not taking proper information into consideration. What I can see is that you either want to detach, or find a way back to the relationship. I’m speaking from your comment, here, in particular.

I went through a stretch where I couldn’t detach from S4’s mom. So many recycles. There were things about me that wouldn’t allow me to let go of a very toxic situation. It cost me a lot. Nearly everything.

You’re in a very fragile stage of this. Maybe it will help you to do your best to stop looking at what she’s doing. That will only hurt you. I know from experience.

Your feelings aren’t stupid. That’s someone else talking. Can you miss the event with no harm to yourself?

[clvrnn]

Hey again JNChell.

I can’t miss the event; we are in the same (very small) university class. I will have to attend all the classes as will she, and believe me I’ve looked at all the options. I have even thought about quitting altogether, just to avoid this.

I found that I had wanted to detach and was really working towards it. Thought I had made progress. But seeing her name come up in the chat, and being reminded of everything - her, uni. It really just bought everything back. I’m back in the mindset of wanting her to come back, totally forgotten all the negatives, upset and crying, wanting to contact her.

I feel stuck. I can’t see how my feelings will die when I will just have to be around her, hear her voice, even see her name in a group chat - and she has seemingly just forgotten all about me! Not one attempt at contact. Nothing.

When I say my feelings are stupid perhaps those are the voices of people I think are viewing me and thinking I should have moved on. Maybe that’s what it is.

[clvrnn]

I am also going to read that link more thoroughly, I looked at it briefly before, but I can see that there are many helpful tools within that forum thread.

[JNChell]

Can you take a friend to this event for support? Someone that has some idea about what has transpired? Sometimes it helps just to have someone squeeze our hand or tap us on the shoulder to remind us.

I get it. The simplest things bring back a lot of emotions. Those emotions bring back a lot of wishful thinking. The same old pain and ruminations are attached to those thoughts.

It takes time, girl. Time puts distance between the shock and your hurt. Work is what heals.

I know you’ve been stuck for a while. I was as well. I’m still stuck in anger and resentment a bit, but I would never get back with S4’s mom. I do remember how much it hurt to be where you are with things. Keep pushing forward. Everything is going to be okay.

[babyducks]

hello again clvrnn,

boy, in a lot of ways you remind me of …. well …….   me a while ago.

can I make sure I understand what you are describing?   you saw her name come up in a group chat your university uses.   and your feelings came back.   where they like before?   the shaking?   feeling faint?  crying and feeling upset?   you and her are physically distant right now.     you were at your home on your laptop... she's off someplace else...   university is on break or slowing down for the summer?    and you are due to return in the fall for a full blown curriculum.

did I get that mostly right?

here is what I think.    I think you might be having an emotional flashback.    I have them.     so I understand how they work.     ever hear of them?    an emotional flashback is often the term used for and about children who were abused but it applies to others as well.   anyone who has experienced complex trauma.     (another technical term)

here is what the experts call an emotional flashback:

An Emotional flashback is the experience of regressing to the former feeling states of having been an abandoned, neglected or abused.  A flashback is usually triggered by something in your present environment that takes you back into the overwhelming feeling states of your past.

so what's that all mean?    in the moment you read her message on your university chat group you 'flashed back' to the emotions of your loss.    when you actually read her message you were safe...  she wasn't around... you had control over the chat group … there was actually no way for her to hurt you.    but it didn't feel like that.   it felt like you were living the break up all over again.

I know right about now you are looking at your computer saying "that babyducks is absolutely full of  "    trust me on this.    after my relationship ended with my person with BPD,   I ended up with a diagnosis of complex trauma.   a form of c-ptsd.    mine was a mild case.   and I was likely pre-wired for it by the neglect I endured in childhood.   but there you have it.    I had emotional flashbacks that felt like some one had punched me in the stomach.  or worse.

here is what I do with emotional flashbacks.    work to understand that what I am feeling is a reliving of past emotions and that where I am currently is different and I am safe.   stand up and stretch my hands up as far and wide as I possibly can.   seriously.   emotional flashbacks have physical components to them, making yourself big and strong helps re-wire the brain.   

there is a guy who is considered the absolute expert on emotional flashbacks.   his name is Pete Walker.    He mostly works with adults who experienced neglect and abuse as children.    he is talked about a lot on the children of BPD parents board here.     I found if I removed the word "child"  or "as children"   what he wrote about applied very nicely to me.

I'm going to pause here because this is a lot to absorb.    please let me know what you think.

'ducks

[babyducks]

this is a thread on how to manage emotional flashbacks that comes from the Pete Walker book:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=315252.0

don't let the fact that it's discussing child abuse and neglect derail you.    look for the nuggets that apply and can help.

'ducks

[clvrnn]

can I make sure I understand what you are describing?   you saw her name come up in a group chat your university uses.   and your feelings came back.   where they like before?   the shaking?   feeling faint?  crying and feeling upset?   you and her are physically distant right now.     you were at your home on your laptop... she's off someplace else...   university is on break or slowing down for the summer?    and you are due to return in the fall for a full blown curriculum.

did I get that mostly right?

Yes, you got it right! We’ve ended our second year. I won’t have to see her until October. Yes, that was the first time in a long time, perhaps almost two or so months that I’ve seen any kind of communication from her - even though it wasn’t aimed at me. I felt a mixture of things - I felt all of what you described, felt excluded from her life, all the feelings of how I felt whenever she would ignore my attempts at contact, everything.

here is what I think.    I think you might be having an emotional flashback.   

I have heard of these, yet I didn’t know exactly what they were. So, when I become upset at the sight of a message, or her, or a thought upsets me, that’s what that is? I didn’t know there was an actual term for it.

May I ask, is that what I am feeling/experiencing when I am, for example, at home and I remember something we did here and it sends a surge of anxiety through my body and it upsets me? Or when I think about her and her possible new partner and I feel upset and anxious?

here is what I do with emotional flashbacks.    work to understand that what I am feeling is a reliving of past emotions and that where I am currently is different and I am safe.   stand up and stretch my hands up as far and wide as I possibly can.   seriously.   emotional flashbacks have physical components to them, making yourself big and strong helps re-wire the brain. 

  

Thank you ducks. I have been doing exactly this since you’ve posted this, and it’s really helped. I take a big breath in and look at something, like my hands or the wall, or out of the window and say to myself that I am not experiencing that now, I am here, I am doing something different, it’s fine. And often the feeling just disappears.

[clvrnn]

this is a thread on how to manage emotional flashbacks that comes from the Pete Walker book:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=315252.0

don't let the fact that it's discussing child abuse and neglect derail you.    look for the nuggets that apply and can help.

'ducks

I've read through this a few times since you posted it. It is very very helpful, and aspects of it have really helped me out, this week. I feel slightly more in control of those sharp and intense bursts of emotion when faced with triggers or unwanted painful memories of her.

[JNChell]

Emotional flashbacks are tricky. They’re not visual or anything like that. They’re intense feelings. Stored trauma coming to the surface. Our body is trying to talk to us. It’s trying to protect us. I didn’t know anything about them until I began therapy with a trauma specialist. ducks has given good advice. The nuggets. This might sound silly, but keep an eye on your nuggets. That’s where the emotional flashbacks seep in.

I’ve learned about why I have emotional flashbacks. Being able to talk about them here has been #1. You’ve been introduced to Pete Walker. Do your feelings go beyond your ex?

[babyducks]

Hi there clvrnn


I am glad you are doing a little bit better.   Good work!    Good job!   

Emotional flashbacks take us back to the emotions of a past event.     It feels like we are experiencing the exact event all over again,   like it's fresh and just happened.

Now I should say that most people can 'flash back'.   It's mostly innocent and ordinary and not really noticeable.    The other day I was driving in the car and a song came on the radio.   The song always makes me think of my first puppy.   I don't know why.   The song isn't about puppies.   But the song came on and I was re-living happy memories of my puppy.    It's the re-living.   I wasn't thinking about my puppy,   I wasn't missing her,   I was re-living some of the time we spent together.   

That's a different kind of flash back than what you are having.   

hmmmm I am having trouble with my computer... be right back.

'ducks

[babyducks]

So, when I become upset at the sight of a message, or her, or a thought upsets me, that’s what that is?

Yes and No.     When the sight of a message, or the sight of her sends you back to  "all the feelings of how I felt whenever she would ignore my attempts at contact, everything."   You are flashing back to the pain of the neglect and abuse.    You are re-living those same emotions even though she does not have the ability to hurt you any longer.     

May I ask, is that what I am feeling/experiencing when I am, for example, at home and I remember something we did here and it sends a surge of anxiety through my body and it upsets me? Or when I think about her and her possible new partner and I feel upset and anxious?

Also a Yes and a No.       When you are at home and you remember something or something triggers a memory and you have a surge of anxiety,  that's more in the category of a emotional flashback.    Some memory has triggered your flight or fight response... the trauma you experienced feels 'alive' again.    It's not really happening but it feels like we are experiencing the same hurt.

When you think about her in the future, and her possible new partner... I would say that is just outside the category of an emotional flashback,  that's more grief and loss.

The easiest ways for me to tell if I am in an emotional flashback?   Two things:

Another indication is the realization that your self esteem has plummeted.  For example, you may find yourself becoming highly self critical and focusing exclusively on what is wrong with you.  Yet another indication that you are in a flashback is when you notice that you are having an emotional reaction in the present that is way out of proportion to whatever was the triggering event. 

I would be remiss if I didn't mention that emotional flashbacks come with a strong inner critic.    the inner critic is the voice in our head that tells us it is all our fault.    that no one will ever love us.     the inner critic adds to the downward spiral of the emotional flashback by pouring shame all over it.    we should be over this by now.    we were a fool to ...    etc etc .

that's how emotional flashbacks work for me.   

'ducks
  

[JNChell]

This is a very good thread. ducks, I’m glad that you tied the “inner critic” in with emotional flashbacks. The inner critic is not really our voice, but a voice that we were conditioned to listen to and ultimately agree with eventually. Had we been nurtured, guided and validated properly along the way, our inner critic would speak kindly to us. I’m currently working hard on this. I call myself names on a daily basis, but I’m starting to nip it in the bud. Anyway, this has been a very interesting read and convo.

[clvrnn]

I would be remiss if I didn't mention that emotional flashbacks come with a strong inner critic.    the inner critic is the voice in our head that tells us it is all our fault.    that no one will ever love us.     the inner critic adds to the downward spiral of the emotional flashback by pouring shame all over it.    we should be over this by now.    we were a fool to ...    etc etc .

Yes! The "it's all my fault", "I'm not good enough, I bet they're really happy together, I must have done something wrong" and "I should be over this, why am I still fixated on this, there must be something wrong with me" are the main ones for me too - whenever I am upset about anything to do with her, any of these thoughts if not all of them come through. I'm glad it's not just me, I was beginning to think I was mad (more shame, )

[clvrnn]

I'd like to add to what JNChell is saying, also. This thread is helping me immensely, and I really appreciate both you, JNChell, and your words of wisdom, babyducks.

[clvrnn]

I saw my therapist for the 2nd time yesterday and I came out of the session feeling strangely positive. Before I'd even said anything about ex having BPD, I'd been talking about her behaviour over the past year or so and my therapist said to me "does she have any mental or psychological disorders that you know of?" I said yes, she has BPD. Therapist then said that she realised that from what I was saying, how ex pwBPD operates in extremes and that she sounds like a "textbook" case of BPD.

I was relieved to hear this. I had even at one point become convinced that the whole BPD/NPD thing was some sort of online trend, and that really I was the problem in the relationship, or that maybe I'd just done something wrong.

I also mentioned the creation of this playlist and my therapist suggested that ex pwBPD has "probably" made this up, as she's being ignored now and would be a way to get my attention. I was surprised to hear this also, because two other people have said this to me about that, that they believe it to be made up. I no longer check expwBPD social media, anyway. It's too damaging.

I still feel a bit stuck . A bit lost. Tomorrow I hope to go to the gym and I have downloaded a "for dummies" book to do with music production, to try and give my mind a focus. I don't know a lot of people so I'm having to entertain myself a lot of the time, .

[babyducks]

oh my goodness clvrnn, you are most definitely not in this alone.    most of us are about at the same place.    give or take a couple of inches.

My Ex drove a unique foreign made car.   It was the only one for miles around.   every freaking time I saw that car,  I had an emotional flashback.   the way it worked for me,  my emotions said "here she comes to hurt us again, freak out".   and I did for a while.   it took a while to quiet those over the top reactions.     so I could see the car, (and eventually her) and feel comfortable that nothing bad would happen.     My Ex did a lot of what I would call 'covert contempt'.   what I mean by that is she would treat me as if my thoughts/actions/ideas were sooOooOoo stupid they barely qualified to be treated with contempt.     

and that fired off my inner critic.     which made the emotional flashbacks worse.    and it was a downward spiral.    I saw progress with the flashbacks when I worked on the inner critic.

I'm glad you saw your therapist.    Nice job.    It will take a while to work through the things but you are making a great start.

[JNChell]

clvrnn, thank you. You’re helping us too. It sounds like you have a T that validates you. That’s a great thing to have in your corner. I also think it’s wise to not be looking at your ex through social media and the like. As you’ve said, you’d just be retraumatizing yourself.

Since you mentioned BPD/NPD as an online trend, I’d like to caution you on what you read and accept. There is a lot of Junk Psychology out there. I just don’t want you to be led in the wrong direction. The information in this community is legitimate and accurate. It’s researched, studied and scientific. I don’t want to discourage you from researching elsewhere, but I do encourage you to bring your findings back here and discuss them with the community.

I understand feeling stuck. You’ll feel that way for a while, but it will become less with time and work. You’ve got this.

[clvrnn]

Had to post this here otherwise I'm going to end up contacting her. In fact, I really want to send this. I know it will result in many bad outcomes, but at this stage I feel like there's nothing to lose, anyway.

“I don’t understand how you could spend so much time telling me that you had never connected with anyone in this way, or telling me how strong your feelings were for me, spending almost every day with me, talking to me every second of the day – to literally cutting me out of your life overnight.

You didn’t need to ignore me – you could have simply said do you know what, I don’t want us to talk. To be ignored was very painful. I know you don’t care, but it’s important that you see. You’ve hurt someone with your actions.

I was in love with you. I did all I could for you. Helped you with essays, bought all your favourite food when you came over, supported your family by going to gigs – I can’t think of what it is I am supposed to have done to you that really deserves this silence. I may have said some things in pain or anger, but I don’t remember getting an apology for the way you humiliated me at your sister’s house. I certainly did not deserve that, and I know that because you have admitted having anger issues. So.

I don’t know why you keep pushing people away. People that cared about you. How do you just jump to the next person so quickly and easily? Were your feelings for me actually real? Was I used? Was I not good enough for you? I have so many questions. I have to be honest, I thought that you and I really did have something but the way you’ve cut me out suggests otherwise. Just pure silence, even when I tried to just be kind and send you a song I thought you’d like. You just sat online, and didn’t say a word.

I know in my heart that while I am not perfect, I did not do anything to deserve whatever treatment this is. I’m sure you’ll tell everyone I contacted you, and that I’m a stalker – please tell them what actions you performed to put me in this position, won’t you?

I hope the new relationship works out, too. Thanks for constantly telling me you didn’t want a relationship, then jumping into one straightaway. You’ve really hurt me in so many ways. I am responsible for how I deal with my feelings but, have to be honest, you caused them.

You have hurt me. More really because I trusted you, was very open with you about how badly I’ve been treated in the past, all my insecurities, let you into my home, opened up a lot to you, accommodated all of your needs – and I just got hurt. And you don’t seem to feel bad. I don’t get it.

Really sorry I wasn’t good enough for you.”

[clvrnn]

I'm on the verge of sending that. I have had enough of holding everything in.

[JNChell]

clvrnn . Did you send it to her?

[clvrnn]

clvrnn . Did you send it to her?

No, I didn't. There's really no point, it won't change anything, and I will just look stupid.

[Sandb2015]

clvrnn,

I'm glad you're getting on track, I believe it's a journey, tough but good for you.

A recommendation, don't send the letter, go to a quiet place that you can chill, read it out a few times but don't send it...

Think of what sending it will trigger within yourself.

You would want some validating response, very unlikely and either a crappy response or no response may cause triggers within you----ruminations.

Think of it as sending a well thought out gift and no response while they have it and you can't take it back.

This is just my opinion.

As you read it, think about the negative response you'll receive if any at all which would really suck, think about it.

As you read it, let go of the positive influence you want to make, we have to know and keep the truth where it belongs, in the reality of what you have experienced.

You aren't stupid and you can't look stupid, don't give anyone that power anymore.

[JNChell]

That was the right choice for you, then. Thanks for sharing that. It’s caring about yourself enough to move forward and not revisit something that has caused you pain. Be proud of yourself. It’s not a happy and cheerful kind of proud, but it’s a step towards it.

You know, being able to trust ourselves again and wanting to find love again does return. It just takes time and work, but it does happen. All is not lost. Take care of you for now. That’s the most important thing.

[greencrystal]

I'm so sorry for what you're going through. But you can get through it. I'm going through a breakup right now for the third time with the same man.

[babyducks]

hi clvrnn,

I am glad you didn't send the message you wrote.   I think JNChell was right in that you don't want to revisit something in ways that cause you more pain.

I hope now that a few days have passed you can look at what you wrote with a fresh set of eyes.     

“I don’t understand how you could spend so much time telling me that you had never connected with anyone in this way, or telling me how strong your feelings were for me, spending almost every day with me, talking to me every second of the day – to literally cutting me out of your life overnight.

This is hard to understand because we don't tend to think/feel quite the same way.    People who are organized at the borderline level have very intense emotions.    It's very hard to hold on to those intense emotions.     Emotions that are labile burn themselves out.     Think about times when you have felt something intensely.    How long could you maintain that emotion?   

I am not excusing her behavior.  Or the way she treated you, but let's look at this from a different angle.   Should we expect our partner's feeling to never change?    Should she have given you as much closure as she could?  Absolutely yes.    But if she can't or she didn't, it's up to you to give yourself closure.    Does this letter help with your closure?    Or does it continue the unhealthy dynamic?

somewhere on this website it says that we have our own higher than average need for validation.   that's why these relationships are so attractive to us.    That was true for me.   what was also true for me was that I asked for validation in ways that didn't work.    I think the first 'honeymoon' idealization phase of BPD relationship is like validation on steroids.   It was hard to accept that wasn't coming back.    and it was also hard to realize it wasn't healthy to begin with.   

have you ever heard of the Karpman drama triangle?   I'll encourage you to google.       the Karpman drama triangle pretty much sums up the dysfunctional relationship roles we find ourselves in.      It's also a big clue how to reframe our thinking and our language to get off the drama triangle and into healthy processing.

I get it that you were/are looking for validation.  some response that recognizes your feelings.   but what would happen if you looked at the letter you wrote again and rewrote it, in ways that took you off the drama triangle,   and into a more empowered dynamic?    what would happen if you wrote a letter that validated yourself?   what would happen if you wrote a letter that gave yourself closure?   

'ducks