I cant do this: Part 2

[Theperfectsky]

Mod Note:  Part 1 is here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=336377.0

I went back and gathered my childrens clothes and toys. My clothes. Necessities. He wasnt there. Im in GA now. I talked to him and he is taking this as a personal attack to him. That I'm taking his daughter away. That he didn't see her all weekend. Hes acting like I had a choice and I should've talked to him. I said I tried talking to you! A million times! He just kept saying oh it fine. No worries. Im done. I won't forget this. I said what did you expect me to do? You gave me no choice. Ihad to leave a place a job a house that i loved all because of you. Nothing else. Quit blaming everyone else and look at yourself! It hurts so bad to not be given any type of closure. To be blamed and for him to not see that this is hurting immensely and is the hardest thing ive ever had to do. Its just all about him. And I hate that i still love him care for him miss him being there.

All of this happened in a whirlwind. I was presented the opportunity to leave and have a place to go in GA I had to take it. And now my whole world is flupped upside down and its all because of him and he doesnt see that!

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Ozzie101]

I'm so glad you're safe, Theperfectsky!  You're very fortunate that you had a chance to leave and a place to go. Good for you for protecting yourself and your children.

Of course he's taking it personally and refusing to accept responsibility. That's common with pwBPD and NPD. With BPD, the sense of shame is so acute they often can't see their own role in causing problems. They can't accept any blame. And NPD is another story.

When my H was in his dysregulation phase, lashing out with emotional and verbal abuse, all he could see was his own pain. He absolutely could not see how much I was hurting. And that, in a way, hurt as much if not more than the actual verbal abuse. So, yes, I know, it hurts.

As you said, all this happened in a whirlwind. It will take some time for you to work through this and for your head to stop spinning. Be kind to yourself. Practice self care. Try to enjoy time with your family. Do things you love.

But we're here for you to help you sort through the feelings and emotions. I do hope you'll keep posting and let us know how you are and what's happening. Lots of   you you and your children.

[SunandMoon]

We hear you, TPS. We understand it's really hard  

The thing with BPD and npd, they have a way of twisting reality and making it all your fault. They know how to play us, so we start feeling that maybe it is our fault. If only we could find the right words; do the right things all the time; if only we had stayed, maybe we could make it all better...

You said it yourself: it's only a matter of time before the abuse gets physical. Only a few days ago he threatened to punch you in the face.

Your therapist told you that you might have to leave. Even his own family told you to leave!

I'm not saying this to hurt you, but hold onto the reality of what was happening to you. By the time you left, it was non stop madness and there's only one way that was going to go.

You knew it and you made the smart move.

He needs time to face the reality of his behaviour and the consequences (if that is possible). You need time to heal from what you've gone through. I would stop contact for a while or at least be very low contact.

It's been a lot of stress and very scary, I'm sure. Take the time now to rest, enjoy this safe place with your children and try to do some nice things for yourself.

 
SaM x

[Theperfectsky]

Thank you guys for all your support. We have a daughter together so I'm not sure how to go no contact. He asked for pics of her and I sent some. I will have to make arrangements to go get all my furniture. I'll have to get a moving truck

[Theperfectsky]

Today I'm just feeling out of place. Dont really know what to do with myself. Thinking about starting my life over. Needing to find a job a place to live. The fact that my son's father is mad because he wants to stay in SC. He moved down there shortly after I did to be close to his son. I understand his frustration. I feel for him. Need to find which city I even want to live in. Theres just a lot going through my head. Of course missing my life and I guess he is my now ex bf missing him too. Thinking if I should let his family know whats going on. I didn't tell his sister happy.mothers day yesterday thats been bothering me. Ugh-anxiety

[I Am Redeemed]

perfectsky,

It is hard to consider going NC when you share a child, but consider what is best for you right now. DV services can help you work through that. Also, be aware that he may use your child to further emotionally manipulate and control you.

He will probably play up the guilt trip of you leaving with your daughter, and how he misses her. The daughter he did nothing to care for while you and she were living with him. Suddenly he is sad because she's not there. Well... guess what? His relationship with his daughter is his responsibility, and if he wants to see her he needs to take steps to ensure that can happen in a safe way. Just be aware of the FOG trap surrounding this.

I fell into that trap myself, even after leaving, and I continued to have contact that was affecting my ability to recover from the abuse, all because I felt guilty that my h was missing out son. He used him as an excuse to see me and contact me, and pressure me to return to the relationship... until it didn't work, and he disabled my van one night so it wouldn't start, and then went on a roller coaster emotional rampage culminating in a sexual assault. I went NC after that, kid or no kid. Six months later he has still not consulted a lawyer to get visitation with our son, but tries to use email, voicemail, and third parties to guilt trip me into resuming contact...as if nothing happened.

[Theperfectsky]

What is FOG? Yea that's exactly what he is doing. I do feel guilty.

[Ozzie101]

FOG is Fear Obligation and Guilt. It's basically emotional blackmail, very common in abusive relationships. We have an article on it here:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/emotional-blackmail-fear-obligation-and-guilt-fog

It's very hard to avoid getting pulled into it but when you're aware of the attacks/methods/manipulations, it makes it easier to fight them off.

[Harri]

Hi.

Today I'm just feeling out of place. Dont really know what to do with myself. Thinking about starting my life over. Needing to find a job a place to live. The fact that my son's father is mad because he wants to stay in SC. He moved down there shortly after I did to be close to his son. I understand his frustration. I feel for him. Need to find which city I even want to live in. Theres just a lot going through my head. Of course missing my life and I guess he is my now ex bf missing him too. Thinking if I should let his family know whats going on. I didn't tell his sister happy.mothers day yesterday thats been bothering me. Ugh-anxiety

Please put talking with a DV professional at the top of your list even if you know you will be moving.  This is a very delicate point in the break up and you not only need support but good sound advice from professionals.

Can you agree to do that?

[SunandMoon]

Everything you are feeling is totally normal in a situation like this TPS. Hang in there... it will get easier.

We have a daughter together so I'm not sure how to go no contact. He asked for pics of her and I sent some.

I didn't mean no contact long term. Just for a week or so, to give yourself time to think. Of course he asked for pics of her. Every time you've moved out and gone to a hotel, he's used your daughter. And it's worked. You've reassured him, felt sorry for him and gone back home. He knows it works so why wouldn't he keep doing it.

So remind yourself how he behaved when your daughter was sick last week. Was he there for her or for you? Did he call in a script for pink eye? What happened instead?

This is what I mean about pwBPD and npd knowing how to control and manipulate us. Words can be convincing but look at the actions.

Give yourself some time, TPS. This has all happened quickly. You don't need to make decisions immediately. Give yourself a few days, a week, to disconnect from his manipulations and FOG, treat yourself kindly, take some time to breath and try not to think about him for a while. Focus on yourself and remember who you are 

[Theperfectsky]

Yes Harri I will.

Thank you for reminding me of this SaM. You are so right.

[Theperfectsky]

So he called me and I think he was using the O in FOG. He started with when was I coming to get my cats. Because unfortunately I couldnt bring them with me. I have to go back for them. And he said he stopped drinking. I said congratulations. Thats good. And he went into how hes not happy and he misses his daughter. And I said well I'm not happy either none of this was fair. I had to leave everything because of his actions.  He said he realizes what he was doing was wrong and he def shouldn't have in front of the kids. They didn't deserve that. I said no they didnt and neither did I. You treated me horribly. It was unhealthy you had no desire to make any changes. He said well I'll try even harder this time. I said no. You didn't try last time. He said well I stopped drinking I said well that's good but that's not the only problem. You have a lot more issues. You have a long ways to go. He said well I'll start looking for a therapist. I said saying and doing are 2 entirely diff things. Youve always said that. I dont think you understand the magnitude of this. You are minimizing everything. He said I'm not minimizing I said yes you are. I moved back to another state. I lost my job. You arent getting it. I changed my entire life for you and you told me oh well you can move back.

Then he goes into how I'm being cold and i said no you hurt me deeply in protecting myself and my children. I'm not being cold. He goes you left me to pay everything for the remainder of the lease which is 2 months. Without even talking to me. I said I tried talking to you for months. You wanted nothing to do with it. Hes like well you need to help me pay. I cant afford all of this and therapy. I said well idk what to tell you. Hes like of course you don't care. I said ask your family for help. And he goes it took me a lot of courage to call you and tell you that I know I was doing wrong and you dont even care. I'm sorry i even called. Its fine. No worries. I said im glad you realize and thank you for telling me that but words mean nothing honestly. And he hung up

So im thinking he is using obligation ? Is this correct? What should I say in response to helping him pay the bills? What should I say in response to any of this?

[I Am Redeemed]

It sounds like yes, he's trying to use obligation to make you feel bad for leaving him. As far as a response, you said what you needed to say, so you don't have to repeat yourself. He's likely not going to accept anything that makes him responsible.

And good for you for realizing that change will take time and effort on his part, and that making promises is very different from demonstrating consistent progress and commitment to facing one's issues and sincerely working towards recovery. A couple of days without a drink and an attempt to manipulate you by whining about the tough spot he's in now are hardly solid evidence of change.

Let him sort it out. He left you with no other viable option but to leave. Take care of you and your kids, and let him have whatever opinion or feelings he will have.

[Theperfectsky]

If he continues to say this what should I say?

Im sure its not the last time he will say it

[Harri]

Hi.

I am Redeemed: 

you said what you needed to say, so you don't have to repeat yourself. He's likely not going to accept anything that makes him responsible.

Exactly!

I would be cautious and not try to get him to see your side of things or his part in this mess.  He can't right now and may never.

Explaining, justifying, defending and arguing is only going to escalate the situation and this is a time that requires calm and centered communication from you.

His perspective:  you pulled his world apart.  he can no longer see his daughter.   His daughter is in a different state.  He can't afford to live where he is any more.

I am not defending what he did.    The few things I listed above are just some of the things he is dealing with emotionally.  It is really hard stuff for anyone to deal with never mind someone with BPD or BPD traits.  He will not be able to hear or see you, how his actions brought this separation about and that he is responsible.   Now is not the time to have this conversation.

Please, call DV center and at least talk to an expert.  My concern is that by trying to reason with him and get him to see you will escalate things.  That is not the solution at this point.

Take time to talk with someone at the DV center.  Try to be neutral with him.  

[Theperfectsky]

He called again and I didn't answer then he texted me and said "I just called to say that you need to come get your cats asap or I'm taking them to the shelter" what do I say in response to this?

[No-One]

He called again and I didn't answer then he texted me and said "I just called to say that you need to come get your cats asap or I'm taking them to the shelter" what do I say in response to this?

ThePerfectSky:
I think you need to respond to him with a plan.  Is it possible to pick up your cats this weekend and perhaps bring someone with you?  Perhaps there is some local rescue group who can house the cats for a short period of time?  If you don't answer, he will likely take the cats to the shelter in short order.   

You will likely need to seek legal advice, at some point in the near future. Your partner will likely fight for visitation rights for his daughter.  There will likely be child support to discuss. The issue of residency and distance from the father could become an issue.

You definitely want to be cautious and have a safety plan. You will want to document bad behavior from the past, and going forward. You do have a child together, so you will have to develop some safe means to interact in relation to your shared child.

Hopefully, your partner follows through with getting counseling and sticks with it.  I believe you indicated he is in residency to be a medical doctor. I'm thinking his bad behavior could come back to haunt him, if he doesn't gain control of himself.

Members who post on The Family Law Board, might be able to offer some advice for specific legal questions, going forward.

  

[SunandMoon]

I agree with what I am Redeemed has written, TPS. Please listen to her - she's been there.

A couple of days without a drink and an attempt to manipulate you by whining about the tough spot he's in now are hardly solid evidence of change.

Exactly. You know this too. You did very well in saying what you had to say.

Unfortunately, as long as you're in contact, you can expect more of the same. You're going to hear attempts at saying sorry, attempts to make you feel guilty and obligated, and attempts to make you feel sorry for him. When they don't work, get ready for intimidation, manipulation and threats. No / Low contact really is the way to go to protect yourself during this vulnerable time.

Having attempted using your daughter as a way to manipulate you, he has now turned to the next thing you care about - your cats.

Having probably killed his cat, I'm sure this creates fear in you. I wonder if there's an unspoken threat in there too?

What did you plan to do about your cats? Do you still have other things you value at his apartment? Did you plan to come back and get them later?

As No-one said, you could drive back with a friend and get everything. Even if there's nowhere for the cats to stay, you could find a local shelter to home them temporarily.

Otherwise, as sad as it is, you might have to tell him to take them to a shelter.

He won't like this as it's a control tactic and he expects to be able to lure you back or at least keep some control over you through the cats.

Very crap situation! Which way sounds more doable for you?

[Theperfectsky]

I planned to go back and get them as well as all my furniture and other things.

The whole house is still furnished with all of my things

He continues to send messages. Saying I will not come when I can I will come asap. Then he said after our talk today im done with this PLEASE READty relationship. Then said I have until the end of the week to get the cats or he will take them to a shelter

[SunandMoon]

As you can see from what he's said above, it's all about control TPS. Do you want to go back to that?

Who do you have helping you? Do you have a big burly brother or cousin who could help you collect your things?

I'm guessing if you call his bluff - don't answer, don't go there - he might not do anything. But we can't know that for sure.

I do think you need to talk this over with a professional. Go to the https://www.thehotline.org/help/ site and give them a call.

Tell them everything that has happened and that you have left, and what he is doing now.

They're trained for this and deal with these situations every day, so they'll be able to give you sensible options and you can talk through different scenarios in real time.

Also ask if there is any practical help available like housing, etc. Time to get a really solid support group around you.

Are you with family now? Are they supporting you too?

[Theperfectsky]

Oh im not going back to him. Yea I have my big uncle and his son

Thats who im staying with and ges very supportive.

So far I haven't said anything to him

[Harri]

Have you developed a safety plan or contacted DV experts yet TPS?

[Theperfectsky]

I'm in a live chat with one right now

[No-One]

It would probably be a good idea to look up the local direct phone number to the police department for the home you shared.  Put the number in your cell phone for quick use, as needed.  

If you go to the shared home, to get the cats or the furniture, and he starts dysregulating (or you feel threatened), you could make a direct call to the local police and ask them to come out.  Sometimes, they make the offending party leave for a period of time, so that you can get your things without them being there.

This could be part of your safety plan.  You might even want to call and talk to the daytime shift commander about what you anticipate could happen.  Hopefully, he can give you some reassurance that they can respond in a helpful way, when you go to get your things.

The best situation is that he is working a long shift on the day you pick up your things.

[Theperfectsky]

I'm pretty sure hes working next 2 weekends. I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about him giving away my cats right now

[I Am Redeemed]

Is there any way you could look up the shelter(s) in his area and call them? Give them your number and a description of him and your cats, maybe they could call you if he does drop them off at the shelter. They may hold them for you until you can make arrangements to come and get them.

I'm sorry, I know you are worried about your pets. I lost my cats when I left my ex. I had to take them to a shelter because I did not have a place to keep them. S3 (then 2) was very attached to them, one in particular, and the cat loved him, too. They went to good homes, but it still sucked.

[Theperfectsky]

Ugh redeemed im so sorry. I hope that doesn't happen in this case.

Thats a good idea to call the shelters. I dont see him doing this tho. I see him just dropping them out somewhere.

He has since got uglier. Talking ablut getting my stuff out now or I have to pay half of rent and he wants his key. "Thats final" as he has said. He will call the cops and have them take the cats away. If I don't get them he will let them starve. Hes getting a lawyer. That I just used him until  I get back together with my ex. All kinds of things.

I said I'm not going to listen to your threats anymore. Youre being childish. If you want to make things worse thats on you. I said I'll contact your family and let them know what you did. And I recalled that convo we had with them the last time and he said that never happened. They will testify if they have to. I said I have all the texts. If they get on the stand and lie thats called perjury. He responded with I'm not saying another word until I get my lawyer.

[SunandMoon]

Well, the threats and intimidation didn't take long, TPS

Where did you get your cats from? Was it a shelter? That's where he might take them, so you could call them and ask them to hold your cats for you if he does take them there.

Calling the cops and having them take the cats away... LOL! Try to ignore him now, TPS. He feels he's losing control over you and it will just get more ugly.

Oh im not going back to him. Yea I have my big uncle and his son
Thats who im staying with and ges very supportive.
So far I haven't said anything to him 

I'm in a live chat with one right now

I've just got to say bravo, TPS! You are really awesome! You've got this 

[Turkish]

  He just threw a bowl of salsa at me in front of my children. Called me an idiot and asshole.

This is "getting physical." He's already done it.  That is a crime, and exposing children to physical violence is likely also a crime (it can be in my state).

You are safe where you are,  but you are also at the highest risk of escalated violence if you return to get your kitties and belongings.  Do not do this alone.

NPD, BPD, or neither of those, he's highly triggered,  drunk or not,  and I wouldn't trust when he says he's sober.  You left, a support (even dysfunctionally as a target), and his baby is gone, even if he didn't put much into helping as a father. Don't go this alone.  

What are your thoughts?

[Theperfectsky]

This is "getting physical." He's already done it.  That is a crime, and exposing children to physical violence is likely also a crime (it can be in my state).

You are safe where you are,  but you are also at the highest risk of escalated violence if you return to get your kitties and belongings.  Do not do this alone.

NPD, BPD, or neither of those, he's highly triggered,  drunk or not,  and I wouldn't trust when he says he's sober.  You left, a support (even dysfunctionally as a target), and his baby is gone, even if he didn't put much into helping as a father. Don't go this alone.  

What are your thoughts?

Oh no def not going alone. Im not that stupid  

[Theperfectsky]

Well, the threats and intimidation didn't take long, TPS

Where did you get your cats from? Was it a shelter? That's where he might take them, so you could call them and ask them to hold your cats for you if he does take them there.

Calling the cops and having them take the cats away... LOL! Try to ignore him now, TPS. He feels he's losing control over you and it will just get more ugly.

I've just got to say bravo, TPS! You are really awesome! You've got this 

Sure didn't take long SaM
Ive had my cats for 9 years. I got them from a lady
I don't see him taking them to a shelter I see him letting them out
Thank you so much! Hugs

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Harri]

I said I'm not going to listen to your threats anymore. Youre being childish. If you want to make things worse thats on you. I said I'll contact your family and let them know what you did. And I recalled that convo we had with them the last time and he said that never happened. They will testify if they have to. I said I have all the texts. If they get on the stand and lie thats called perjury. He responded with I'm not saying another word until I get my lawyer.

I understand the hurt, anger, frustration, stress that is driving this.  All of this talk is adding fuel to the fire.  Stop, please.

Turkish: 

but you are also at the highest risk of escalated violence if you return to get your kitties and belongings.

Read this again.

TPS: 

I'm in a live chat with one right now

So you called a hotline.  good.  Do you have an appointment?  What did they advise?

[Mutt]

The discussion has reached it's post limit and will now be locked. Part 3 is here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=336535.msg13052889#msg13052889