Did my relationship promote my omnipotence and narcissism? (Christian topic)

[Depression = 72% of members]

I'm 5 years out of my relationship with UexpwBPDgf. I'd like to think I'm on the 'thriving' end of Learning. I'm wondering if there are any other Christians that have considered these ideas about our nature as humans in these relationships.


My pain.
I think she seemed to take pleasure in my pain—but subconsciously. It's not that she didn't feel painful while doing so. She felt exquisitely pained. Looking back, it seemed that being in the pain of others, the pain of a painful relationship, was her familiar—her equilibrium.


Her joy from my pain.
Why is my pain important to the relationship? Looking back, it seemed to give her great joy when I suffered for her. I don't think it was joy in the normal sense. I learned that it's more the kind of joy one feels when they are at home in a familiar emotional space—the emotional space of tantrums and dysfunction. Or another more relatable example: the way an 'anxious' attachment-styled person is at 'home' in anxiety-driven circumstances.


My (hidden) want of pain to be like Jesus.
Why is pain relevant to me as a Christian? I think I saw myself taking the place that Jesus takes for us. When one gives their live for another, that is a great love. "Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends." (John 15:13).

In my view, weekly dysfunction (or more) by an SO to me is extreme circumstances. In weathering a pwBPD's dysregulation for many hours—we are living through pain. We could be attempting to love like Jesus—whom underwent extreme pain for us. Over time—and relating this to emotional dimensions—this would then develop in us a sense of survival under extreme circumstances. I think surviving that environment week-to-week fostered a sense of omnipotence/narcissism in us.


Identifying the fallacious belief.
Of course, the fallacious belief here would be something like:

I suffer for this person—therefore I must love them a great deal.

The issue with that is the positive relationship—more suffering must mean more love. I think that would then bury us deeper and deeper.


I'm wondering if there's anyone else that can relate to this? Pleasant week everyone.  

[gotbushels]

I'm 5 years out of my relationship with UexpwBPDgf. I'd like to think I'm on the 'thriving' end of Learning. I'm wondering if there are any other Christians that have considered these ideas about our nature as humans in these relationships.


My pain.
I think she seemed to take pleasure in my pain—but subconsciously. It's not that she didn't feel painful while doing so. She felt exquisitely pained. Looking back, it seemed that being in the pain of others, the pain of a painful relationship, was her familiar—her equilibrium.


Her joy from my pain.
Why is my pain important to the relationship? Looking back, it seemed to give her great joy when I suffered for her. I don't think it was joy in the normal sense. I learned that it's more the kind of joy one feels when they are at home in a familiar emotional space—the emotional space of tantrums and dysfunction. Or another more relatable example: the way an 'anxious' attachment-styled person is at 'home' in anxiety-driven circumstances.


My (hidden) want of pain to be like Jesus.
Why is pain relevant to me as a Christian? I think I saw myself taking the place that Jesus takes for us. When one gives their live for another, that is a great love. "Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends." (John 15:13).

In my view, weekly dysfunction (or more) by an SO to me is extreme circumstances. In weathering a pwBPD's dysregulation for many hours—we are living through pain. We could be attempting to love like Jesus—whom underwent extreme pain for us. Over time—and relating this to emotional dimensions—this would then develop in us a sense of survival under extreme circumstances. I think surviving that environment week-to-week fostered a sense of omnipotence/narcissism in us.


Identifying the fallacious belief.
Of course, the fallacious belief here would be something like:

I suffer for this person—therefore I must love them a great deal.

The issue with that is the positive relationship—more suffering must mean more love. I think that would then bury us deeper and deeper.


I'm wondering if there's anyone else that can relate to this? Pleasant week everyone.  

[MeandThee29]

FWIW I doubt that you are a narcissist. Most of us who get into a "bravely suffering" situation are trying to control the situation best we know how, but don't function as a narc in other areas of life. There are some who wouldn't even call us codependents, although elements of that are there. I also think that we have to reframe our view of how God views us and wants us to handle difficult relationships. It's not always a "holy" thing to suffer at the hands of another.

For me at least, the healing came when I acknowledged my own distorted thinking and actions and forgave him. I certainly had/have my own issues and didn't make wise choices at times, but it's something I've let go of. I set up good boundaries formulated with multiple counsellors which ultimately shattered the marriage, but I'm at peace with that.

There is hope!

[itsmeSnap]

Looking back, it seemed to give her great joy when I suffered for her

When I read these sorts of things it always seems like there's some "demonization" of the other.

At its core, that "suffering for her" provides validation (which we "failed" to provide ourselves, in reality or their imagined world) that you do indeed care about them.

 Its blown out of proportion because their anxiety is hyper-expressed, and yes, they are most likely deliberately provoking those reactions, but not to cause pain I don't think, they're too "about themselves"; its to relieve their own symptoms of inadequacy.

the way an 'anxious' attachment-styled person is at 'home' in anxiety-driven circumstances

I disagree, an anxious person seeks reassurance beyond the reasonable, creating tension and a self fulfilled pushback.

I don't feel at home feeling rejected, I dont seek rejection so I can be clingy and needy to annoy the other, I just respond in ways that aren't conducive to reconnecting.

When one gives their live for another, that is a great love

.
It is.

Except when we're coming from a selfish place. We want to be loved by giving, we don't give because we love.

Rejection is of no consequence to those who love unconditionally. we feel the pain when it happens to us. How selfless are we really? Is it truly unconditional love if we want love in return?

Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing". Do we give that same forgiveness when our partners "deliverately hurt us" like that?

I suffer for this person—therefore I must love them a great deal

.
I guess this is the devil in the detail: we endure difficulties to support those we love. If we suffer instead of stoically endure, is it actually love or something else?

[once removed]

this is a topic that hits close to home for me.

its also a topic that i think a lot of christians struggle with.

i know that in my relationship, i distinctly remember thinking to myself one day that i needed to put my ego aside, that i needed to be emotionally stronger, less reactive, more loving. because thats what Jesus would do.

in that moment, i was not wrong. but looking back, it was also more complicated. i wasnt doing those things generally. what i was doing wasnt about love. i was getting my sense of self worth from this relationship dynamic (wearing suffering as something of a badge of honor). i was getting a sense of superiority (shes sick, im strong, she needs me). it was oddly comforting. it made me feel powerful.

but i wasnt being self sacrificial in the noble sense of the word, or in a Christlike way (in my defense, im sure i was at times). i was being a martyr for love.

you can call it vanity. you can call it narcissism. you can call it low self esteem. you can call it codependency. its a dysfunctional relationship dynamic.

and its one where the baggage of both partners play directly off of each other in toxic ways.

you have one partner who thrives off idealizing others and seeing them as someone who is the answer to their woes, the one who will save them, and gets a payoff in being saved. you have another partner who thrives off of being idealized, understood, and gets a payoff from saving the other person. the payoff is feelings of confidence, of competence, and even superiority. this dynamic is how both parties identify self worth and love.  

but when conflict sets in, both retreat to their respective corners. one partner cant keep up the exhaustive effort of mirroring the self worth of the other, and devalues them. the other partner feels unappreciated, wounded, misunderstood. if you think about it, both say to the other "you arent who i thought you were. you disappoint me. be better, or else".

both partners may return to the phase where they are mirroring the parts of each other that each needs to be mirrored to feel love(d), but ultimately, this is an unsustainable battle of the wills.

and its really a self fulfilling prophecy on both sides. one partner believes everyone will ultimately fail them. one partner believes no one will really appreciate the sacrifices that they make. both are right. both parties, at least on an emotional level, are being used and abused.

psychology has two different terms that might explain whats going on: a martyr complex, and/or a savior/messiah complex.

bpdfamily has a self test and explanation here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=142260.0
there is a thread on the subject here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=308498.0

I suffer for this person—therefore I must love them a great deal.

bringing things back to an explicitly christian discussion, i think we all can appreciate that it is easy to misapply bible passages. the bible tells us to turn the other cheek. it states (as gotbushels stated in his OP) that there is no greater love than to lay down our lives for another. it talks about serving others. it talks about forgiving others not seven times, but seventy times seven. it talks about submission. it talks about humbling ourselves before others. it even speaks of making ourselves lesser than others.

i guess the question is not whether we meant well, or were trying to do this, but whether we truly were acting selflessly; whether we truly did these things out of love, or in order to receive it.

the bible does not describe Jesus being in a romantic relationship, but it does, i think describe Jesus as a practitioner of healthy love and relationships. he set boundaries. he challenged us to ask whether our self worth came from God or others. he taught us to be graceful, as well as truthful and direct. he displayed righteous anger. he withdrew from crowds that idealized him or made demands of him. he refused to condemn others in his anger, or to prove himself with miracles. he encouraged us to see the log in our own eye before we could ever remove the speck in anothers.

Jesus told us to "love your neighbor as yourself".

how did we interpret that message?

[gotbushels]

FWIW I doubt that you are a narcissist.

Thanks MeandThee29. How do we know the difference between when we are doing healthy self-interest—versus narcissism?



once removed thanks for the great suggestion to visit that page. I did the survey again. I actually forgot I'd done it 3 years ago. Today, I did it from 2 standpoints:
(A) on the "as if just broken up" basis; and
(B) on a "today" basis.

Values were:
(A) 25-32;
(B) 9-16.

I then discovered my result was "25-32" from 3 years ago.

Oh these fabulous growing feelings. I know what I can bring to prayer to be grateful for today!

Enjoy your weekend all.

[MeandThee29]

I was definitely on the martyr end of the spectrum during my marriage. Far less so now as I've built solid relationships and made positive memories. I live more mindfully. Even still in the divorce process, I see myself as more of a survivor than a victim. There's a difference.

I enjoyed raising our children and did shield them from my STBX, but letting go of them as they matured hasn't been an issue. In many ways he still doesn't see them as adults with their own thoughts and feelings. I left it up to them whether to have contact or not, and of course got blamed when they chose not to. In college, they have largely made good choices thankfully. We enjoy being together, but they have their friends and activities and I have mine.

The way the therapist described it, narcissists see themselves as being "special" with a need to control and appear good. I have never really considered myself special. I responded poorly to a difficult relationship, returning to childhood patterns of being a victim. I protected my children, but I controlling others isn't my pattern. Appearing good really isn't a concern either. I actually don't feel shame at this point for being in the divorce process, even though that is unusual in my denomination. It doesn't define me.