Be a man and give this woman the medicine she desperately needs

[Jareth89]

Mod note: This discussion was split from the following thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=337846.0

I have to be honest with the men here, if your wife (bpd or traits) is causing you to turn against your own family,  making you choose between her and your family, isolating you or your grandchildren from your FOO, hating on your siblings, causing your FOO to be split down the middle and argue with each other because some can see the truth, some can't and some don't want to...then please for god's sake (and this is not an advice to stay or leave   ) use your god-given balls, be a man and give this woman the medicine she desperately needs...abandon her ass...don't let your FOO suffer. Good families who spent a lifetime and sacrifices building that structure are being torn apart for one disordered person. That is unforgivable, please come to your senses and quickly. There is opportunity and life out there that brings happiness. You are worth it and a good woman will appreciate you. Make the tough decision (the tough one is the right one, the easy one means you took the path of least resistance = trouble) and you will reap the rewards for making the right choice. This is an opinion for those who feel conflicted. You have free will.

[40days_in_desert]

For me, honing in on the BPD "diagnosis" or theory was a path that ultimately led me to an understanding that I'm not crazy. One of those places that helped me in that discovery is this site and that most here have experienced the same. I had/have issues that I needed to work on and have come a long way in dealing with those. If I hadn't I might still be engaging the same way as before and contributing to the conflict and creating more "kaboom" situations. The BPD's behaviors are wrong regardless of a label or not. It also will (most likely) not result in solving the BPD's issues in itself. It can help lead in learning to better cope.
To summarize what I think FF is saying...
When the BPD tosses the rope to play "tug of war" with you, don't pick up the rope. That was advice from my T who has helped me with a better way in communicating with my uBPDxw when she attempts to create conflict.

[Cat Familiar]

It’s easy when one is on the outside to look at these relationships and think, “Why on earth is he or she tolerating such a dysfunctional person who behaves so abysmally?”

These patterns didn’t develop overnight and if they were present fully at the outset, it’s likely that the relationship would never have developed in the first place.

Though you apparently know your brother quite well, there’s obviously things about him that you do not understand. This relationship is somehow meeting a need for him, whether it’s to be seen as a rescuer, a feeling of companionship, sexual compatibility—who knows? And if it weren’t filling some need, then he’d likely be looking for a way out of it. Perhaps he has a trauma bond with her.

My parents tried to get me to “see the light” about my first marriage to an abusive BPD husband. Even though they were absolutely correct in their assessment of him, that they were being so unaccepting of my marriage, caused me to withdraw further from them.

If you want to be supportive of your brother, the best thing you can do for him is to be nonjudgmental and available to him. He already must be quite aware of your feelings for his wife. Should you continue to attempt to persuade him, it’s likely that he will further isolate himself from the family.

It’s hard even in the best circumstances to get a pwBPD into therapy. They have to want to participate if there’s any chance for improvement.

[Skip]

use your god-given balls, be a man and give this woman the medicine she desperately needs...abandon her ass...don't let your FOO suffer. Good families who spent a lifetime and sacrifices building that structure are being torn apart for one disordered person. That is unforgivable, please come to your senses and quickly.

Have you said this to your brother? Should you say this to your brother?

[zachira]

My cousin married a woman who clearly had BPD. She hated her own mother. For years, my cousin had nothing to do with any of his family, including his mother and siblings. They are all really nice people. Finally my cousin divorced his wife and reestablished his relationships with his family. I personally think he was just too emotionally weak and taken in by his first wife to not go along with breaking contact with his family: it was a choice between his family or his wife. Now my cousin is married again, and the whole family is fond of his wife. Sometimes, you have to let the relationship run its course, and unfortunately sometimes the relationship never changes or ends, and then again there can be a better outcome like with what eventually happened with my cousin.

[Jareth89]

Have you said this to your brother? Should you say this to your brother?

Skip, after the abuse I suffered last year - yes. Weak men can't be virtuous. A man should protect his FOO from abuse and if the abuse is coming from his wife then he may need to reconsider his marriage. A sensible man would do that or at the very least question where this behaviour is coming from rather than just tolerating it. Yes at the end of last year (which affected my health and my work) I admonished him. It's called having morals and principles and morality is about action, in my opinion.

If anyone chooses to have a relationship with an abusive woman who causes abuse to not only yourself but also your FOO, then please don't be so cowardly as to not protect your FOO and stop abuse towards them. If that ever should need to be said ...

[Notwendy]

How did he respond when you said this to him ?

Did it make a difference in how he or his wife treated your family ?

[Harri]

What are you saying yes to here?

Quote from: Skip on July 27, 2019, 12:44:50 PM
Have you said this to your brother? Should you say this to your brother?

Skip, after the abuse I suffered last year - yes.

Yes you said it to him?

or

Yes you should say it to him?

If you did say it to him, I have the same question as Notwendy:  What was his response?

Also, have you reviewed any of the communication tools that were recommended in your other thread?

[Jareth89]

It’s easy when one is on the outside to look at these relationships and think, “Why on earth is he or she tolerating such a dysfunctional person who behaves so abysmally?”

These patterns didn’t develop overnight and if they were present fully at the outset, it’s likely that the relationship would never have developed in the first place.

Bingo. She wasn't showing these appalling behaviours at the start, and it's likely my brother has been groomed by her over time as she has been drip feeding him negatives about me. It's likely that he's in shock about what he sees now, and what a difficult situation this is since he has invested quite a lot and also has a child.

This relationship is somehow meeting a need for him, whether it’s to be seen as a rescuer, a feeling of companionship, sexual compatibility—who knows? And if it weren’t filling some need, then he’d likely be looking for a way out of it. Perhaps he has a trauma bond with her.

Yes he has a weakness of some kind. He doesn't understand the nature of his attraction (because he was not self-aware and didn't self-examine) and he is also now lacking integrity by not being able to stand up to his wife, permitting the harmful behaviour to affect his own sister. He is acting with no maturity, which is sad.

My parents tried to get me to “see the light” about my first marriage to an abusive BPD husband. Even though they were absolutely correct in their assessment of him...

Good on your parents for telling you the truth, they at least had your back. After they told you, did you realise that they were correct? What did you do about it, did you divorce eventually? Are you in a healthy relationship now?

If you want to be supportive of your brother, the best thing you can do for him is to be nonjudgmental and available to him. He already must be quite aware of your feelings for his wife. Should you continue to attempt to persuade him...

I cannot support abusive behaviour towards me of any kind. So if it happens then I firmly let my feelings be known. I haven't persuaded him of anything at the moment. I haven't mentioned BPD. I just didn't quietly tolerate the abuse.

It’s hard even in the best circumstances to get a pwBPD into therapy. They have to want to participate if there’s any chance for improvement.

Exactly, there is the ultimate dilemma. The mental health professionals should be dealing with this, not family members. Family members cannot treat BPD. So if the person with bpd doesn't want to enter therapy and you know their condition will not change without attempting it, then theoretically I should not want to have anything more to do with this person. That's the rational/logical answer (to me).

[Jareth89]

What are you saying yes to here?
Yes you said it to him?  or  Yes you should say it to him? If you did say it to him, I have the same question as Notwendy:  What was his response? Also, have you reviewed any of the communication tools that were recommended in your other thread?

It came into full flower last year, it was pretty full-on. So after observing and taking it on the chin for almost a whole year (there were no provocations from me) I told my brother about her behaviour (which occurred when he was not present) and I admonished him for allowing himself to be brainwashed enough by her crap to try to convince me as my brother that curing my illness was a waste of time, ridiculing my attempt and generally turning all positives into negatives for no reason. She put the knife in where she knew it would hurt most. She even text me to say that I should be referred to mental health services    Now she acts as if nothing happened, but whoever she is, she has turned a corner...she is not the same person I used to know, she is altered. So I admonished him for his behaviour (didn't tell him to get a divorce, I didn't know about bpd at that moment) and to answer your question Harri, Notwendy, he looked as if the truth smacked him in the face, he knew it and it was uncomfortable. He stopped the behaviour. But she starts it again and he gets drawn into her fabrications which horribly distort reality and poison his mind about his own family, especially me his sister.

Her just-turned 3 yr old son already states she is bossy. God knows how she is able to not take his child-like jibes personally. I do not see what goes on in their house, and she has put a strategy in place to make sure that I cannot know. She knows I am her nemesis because she cannot fool me. However this is not necessarily bad, because it's the ones who adhere to truth and moral integrity who will not go along with this (unlike her parents) and could maybe bring about a change. To make steps towards change, someone around the bpd has to be righteous. Everyone else is enabling her demise. So be thankful for the righteous, for they are strong and adhere to truth (with love...even if it's tough love).

They celebrated their 5 yr wedding anniversary recently, and I noticed my brother's card said 'Thank you for all you do. Here's to another 5 more years'      In the back of his mind that comment means 'I hope I can take 5 more years of this, I think 5 is my limit'...a man in a happy marriage with no mental chains would say 'Here's to forever!'

[Skip]

She knows I am her nemesis because she cannot fool me.

Sounds like the gloves are off.

She put the knife in where she knew it would hurt most. She even text me to say that I should be referred to mental health services    Now she acts as if nothing happened

Sometimes it helps the discussion to move from the general to the specific. What is this battle all about. What was the knife.

[Jareth89]

Skip, probably because she sees me as a threat, she has catalogued in her mind any weaknesses that I have that can be used against me as part of her arsenal, should she feel the need arises. So she has some 'ammunition' stored in the event of a perceived threat. This probably makes her feel secure and she appears to use my weaknesses to bond over with my brother (sick I know). However I have noticed that she gets very worried when one of my current weaknesses can't be used as ammunition anymore. So previously my illness was being used as ammunition, but now that I told her I can cure it she panicked. She uses the ammunition to try to weaken who I am as a person and to try and weaken the bond between me and my brother (because that bond is a threat). If the ammunition is going low then she imagines my bond with him can get stronger...so there are more smear campaigns and dysregulation. The extent of the egocentric behaviour is mind-blowing. She can't genuinely compliment me on anything, I don't think. It's very unhealthy for me to be around and a really disturbing situation for my brother to be in. She also has his weaknesses catalogued.

[Skip]

1. "smear campaigns and dysregulation"

2. "She can't genuinely compliment me on anything"

Can you tell us more about these? Let's get into the nitty gritty.

As I understand you, there is friction between the two of you. You would like your brother to get in an mediate it. Your parents are trying to stay out. Is that correct?  I'm not trying to put words in your mouth or interpret what you have said, just trying to summarize exactly what you have said.