Interesting lie'fest yesterday...

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Mod note: This post was split from the following thread as it merited its own discussion: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=337876.0

Interesting lie'fest yesterday... note lying comes with 3 heads, omition of significant relevant details, overt lying, manipulation of details to generate confusion and lack of clarity of the truth... here goes:

Sunday she comes back from Church in a foul mood and announces "I'm meeting 2 female local mums this afternoon" in a slightly grumpy way. I said "Oh are you going to the pub as all the blokes are meeting up there to watch the Cricket?"... "Yes". Anyway, it became pretty apparent that I wasn't welcome even though the blokes that I'd played Cricket with a couple of weeks back were going and I was fully welcome. Anyway, then she goes out with D9 to a local garden centre to buy her OM's daughters Birthday presents (plausible as D9 and D10 are good friends with OM's kids... but really encouraging happy families!), on return she tells D9 to wrap the presents... I'm smelling a rat here so I front it up. "Can I just clarify that you don't want me to come to the pub and I'm not at all welcome?" in front of the kids. She says "I can't stop you going but I was looking forward to an afternoon away from you as I don't have as much fun when you're there". She then goes upstairs and whatsaps OM for 10 mins and then comes back downstairs Things moved outside and I said "It's pretty clear that OM is going to be there and you're trying to play happy families, this is a joke". She then exclaimed "OM daughters are going to be there but I have no idea at all about whether or not OM is going to be there!" Angrily defending. "you're a liar"... "It's none of your business as we're not together, we're not together anymore"... "You have no integrity at all, you're a liar and you're embroiling our children in your deceitful games, sorry for shining a big fat light on your deceit"

They go to the pub, I don't as I really didn't want to involve myself in her games.

They come back from the pub and I'd prepared dinner... We sit down and D6 announces "I now support Liverpool (football team)" to which I responded "Is that just because OM supports Liverpool? Get used to endless disappointment" to which she responded "Yes". D9 and D10 chimed in with a bunch of other reasons why D6 might like Liverpool now, but D6 then exclaimed that "No, it's because OM supports Liverpool". A little piece of me died but I replied "You support whoever you like for whatever reasons you like". W gets up from the table with food and sits outside. D9 follows after a few minutes and asks what's wrong, she gets a bunch of excuses but comes back in and says "There's something else she's not telling me"

W goes to bed says nothing at all to me

[Enabler]

Mod note: This post was split from the following thread as it merited its own discussion: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=337876.0

Interesting lie'fest yesterday... note lying comes with 3 heads, omition of significant relevant details, overt lying, manipulation of details to generate confusion and lack of clarity of the truth... here goes:

Sunday she comes back from Church in a foul mood and announces "I'm meeting 2 female local mums this afternoon" in a slightly grumpy way. I said "Oh are you going to the pub as all the blokes are meeting up there to watch the Cricket?"... "Yes". Anyway, it became pretty apparent that I wasn't welcome even though the blokes that I'd played Cricket with a couple of weeks back were going and I was fully welcome. Anyway, then she goes out with D9 to a local garden centre to buy her OM's daughters Birthday presents (plausible as D9 and D10 are good friends with OM's kids... but really encouraging happy families!), on return she tells D9 to wrap the presents... I'm smelling a rat here so I front it up. "Can I just clarify that you don't want me to come to the pub and I'm not at all welcome?" in front of the kids. She says "I can't stop you going but I was looking forward to an afternoon away from you as I don't have as much fun when you're there". She then goes upstairs and whatsaps OM for 10 mins and then comes back downstairs Things moved outside and I said "It's pretty clear that OM is going to be there and you're trying to play happy families, this is a joke". She then exclaimed "OM daughters are going to be there but I have no idea at all about whether or not OM is going to be there!" Angrily defending. "you're a liar"... "It's none of your business as we're not together, we're not together anymore"... "You have no integrity at all, you're a liar and you're embroiling our children in your deceitful games, sorry for shining a big fat light on your deceit"

They go to the pub, I don't as I really didn't want to involve myself in her games.

They come back from the pub and I'd prepared dinner... We sit down and D6 announces "I now support Liverpool (football team)" to which I responded "Is that just because OM supports Liverpool? Get used to endless disappointment" to which she responded "Yes". D9 and D10 chimed in with a bunch of other reasons why D6 might like Liverpool now, but D6 then exclaimed that "No, it's because OM supports Liverpool". A little piece of me died but I replied "You support whoever you like for whatever reasons you like". W gets up from the table with food and sits outside. D9 follows after a few minutes and asks what's wrong, she gets a bunch of excuses but comes back in and says "There's something else she's not telling me"

W goes to bed says nothing at all to me

[PeteWitsend]

...
Sunday she comes back from Church in a foul mood and announces "I'm meeting 2 female local mums this afternoon" in a slightly grumpy way. ...

I wonder what precipitated the grumpy mood in this case?  

There were about a half dozen times my XW would suddenly snap, in the last year or so of our marriage, and I'd be bewildered by the hostility.  I could be wrong, but it seemed to me the sudden hostility would occur if there was an attractive member of the opposite gender around.  Male or female.  I wonder if it was a result of her struggling with internal emotions... desire in the former case, jealousy, or fear in the latger (that I'd leave her for another woman)?

Either way, the pattern was the same: sudden outburst of hostility, and then tortuous "logic" employed to blame me for the outburst.  This started to affect our date nights pretty negatively though.

We didn't date very frequently, on account of work & having two young kids at home, but at one point, I remember counting that 5 of our last 6 dates had ended in disaster because of unexpected angry outbursts from her.  

[Enabler]

I wonder what precipitated the grumpy mood in this case?  

OM goes to her church.

I believe that she comes home from these meetings (or any meeting with him) angry and frustrated that I am 'stopping her' from being with the man of her dreams... OM. That I 'should' step down, move out and 'give her' the divorce that she deserves after years and years and years of 'my abuse'.

Since I have wised up, seen the wood for the trees and empowered myself with knowledge and understanding of my situation I believe wholeheartedly that 'giving her' the divorce SHE wants is not a good thing for anyone, and there are consequences to her actions and choices SHE has to feel. Having read enough posts on this board of people who laboured with the idea of divorce, some executing it, some not... all of them accepted it was there plan to action.

Being with OM is her choice to make... the cage door is open wide... I've told her to go and get it. I've done what is REQUIRED of me, no more, no less. That choice has natural moral, ethical, relationship (with kids and family), and financial consequences... I'm not stopping her from feeling those if she makes that choice.

So in some respects maybe she is angry with herself.

Enabler

[PeteWitsend]

I think you're right.  She can't manage her emotions in that situation (or take ownership of them) so she looks for a outlet, and that is of course, to blame you and get angry with you for "causing" her to feel the way she does.

If only you were perfect...

This is so frustrating; I know from looking back on my own situation, and wondering why it's so hard for pwBPD to just be honest with themselves about their feelings.  No one would think any less of them, and it would resolve a lot of their inner and interpersonal conflict (if not all).

I recently heard my XW is telling people that we're divorced because I was having an affair.  This is ridiculous; I filed for divorce, not her, and if I was having an affair, she never brought it up at all during the proceedings, and the record would've reflected that.  But I guess it helps her sleep at night?  even though obviously telling a lie like this to herself and others only raises more questions and increases the risk she get caught lying, destroying her own credibility and reputation. 

SMH.

[Enabler]

Integrity... the key word... integrity is the distance between our inner fantasy and our real world reality. pwBPD spend a lot of time and effort maintaining the distance between their somewhat deviant reality and their perfectionist fantasy.

Act with integrity, close your own personal gap and watch the shoes drop as people can no longer square the circle of her fantasy narrative.

Fortunately you have evidence on your side. Keep it, file it, keep a diary of it. It's of enormous help as a sanity check to yourself, and your own integrity.

Enabler 

[Notwendy]

Your kids are young, but one day they are going to figure this out-that their friends' dad and their mum aren't just pals...

The consequences will be interesting. A group of teens together talking to each other and figuring it out. 

What is stopping her from pursuing a divorce on her own at this point? Didn't she file something already?

[Enabler]

I believe D10 is aware already as she seems to be triggered/attempt to change the subject whenever his name is mentioned (such as when D6 said she’d changed football teams because he supported them).

W has filed for divorce and we have the first part (decree nisi) since nov18. However there’s a bunch of stuff that needs to be agreed and executed to get to the final stage (decree absolute) which she is not being proactive on. I feel no inclination to be proactive since it’s not something I believe is right... that said, I am reasonable and complete tasks as and when necessary in a timely fashion. Multiple times I’ve been asked to collate and produce documentation and produce spreadsheets only for the situation to stall. Like I said, I believe she expects me to pick up her dirt laundry and go wash it (as per her entire life of people enabling her), but I don’t, I just stand there looking at the pile.

I do not think my W can tolerate the idea of being the bad guy. She’s very much between a rock and a hard place between doing what her fantasy tells her she wants and her values say is right. Whether she’s acutely aware of that I don’t know, that would require having a conscience.

Enabler

[Notwendy]

You are the bad guy regardless. If you divorce- you are the bad guy to the kids " your father did this". If you don't divorce, you are the bad guy keeping her from her OM.

In this kind of no win situation, I think you just have to act according to your own values.

It's going to be interesting for your girls. It is possible there will be some friction between your wife and D10 when she realizes D10 doesn't buy into her stories.

[Enabler]

Re conflict between D10 (and D9) and W believing/showing her the BS card, that is already happening. They probably see things clearer than many people externally. They are met with aggressive dismissal of such slanderous suggestions!... but they don't doubt their own perceptions now.

My values say stand strong and stand still... a bit Gandhi... the process can move me and will cooperate, as fighting it or disrupting it feeds her cage/prison perception... but when my kids ask me in 10yrs time what I did, I'll be able to hold myself accountable on all levels.

 

[Red5]

My values say stand strong and stand still... a bit Gandhi... the process can move me and will cooperate, as fighting it or disrupting it feeds her cage/prison perception... but when my kids ask me in 10yrs time what I did, I'll be able to hold myself accountable on all levels.

1 Corinthians 16;  (13.) Be on your guard; stand firm in the faith; be courageous; be strong. (14.) Do everything in love.

Hang in there Enabler !

Red5