Loneliness

[Zabava]

Hi all,
Just having a moment of loneliness and need some insight.  I have been fighting bad feelings and depression and trying to set boundaries with my mum and sister (with some success I am happy to say)

Today I had an OK day for the first time in a few weeks.  Then my husband came home.  As soon as he walks in the door he is angry and complaining and I feel awful.

I want to talk to him about what I am going through and tell him more about my childhood, but I don't trust him with my feelings.  I feel very alone sometimes.

[Turkish]

I'm glad that you have had some success with boundaries. 

My ex, the mother of my children, got triggered by hearing anything she perceived as negative.  She walked away one time and literally threw up her hands and said, "I don't want to hear it! " I thus deemed her not a safe person to talk to.  Which made me a "bad communicator." 

A senior member once said, "no one's coming to rescue us."

I took this to mean to stop trying to wrest blood from stones.

[Kwamina]

Hi Zabava

I am glad you are having some success setting boundaries with your mother and sister

Sorry though that your husband's mood and behavior are affecting you so. Why was he angry and what was he complaining about?

Do you feel like he's aware of how his behavior is affecting you?

The Board Parrot

[Zabava]

Thanks Turkish and Kwamina,

 The things he complains about are mostly to do with me and my kids not fulfilling his expectations of order and obedience.  For example, last night he walked in the door from work and complained that dinner wasn't ready, the air conditioning was on, the lights in the basement were on, the floor was sticky, the cat litter was dirty, my daughter is on her phone too much, my other daughter needs a job, etc.

It's not the complaints so much as the belligerent and sarcastic tone in which they are delivered.  If I express hurt or anger he says "now everyone is yelling at me"  I'm an adult and can handle it but he is really alienating my youngest who is 12.  He talks to her rudely and on ocassion has reduced her to tears; she she doesn't like him.

Turkish you are right you can't get blood from a stone.  I have realized that I will not get emotional support or understanding from my spouse.  He loves us and supports us in many practical ways, which are very important.  

It sounds very petty but day after day of criticism and hostility is discouraging.  My therapist used the analogy of my bucket being drained by him and my FOO until it eventually sprang a leak.  My work so far has fixed the leak but I need a way to fill my bucket (if you have young kids in your life they can tell you all about the bucket filler/emptier analogy).

So how do I keep my family together and fill my bucket at the same time?

[Turkish]

He loves us and supports us in many practical ways, which are very important. 

Sounds like he's "old school." My ex finally made a kind of peace with her dad.  He shows his love by being a Provider. It's all he knows.  Her younger sister still resents him though because she expects him to be someone he is not.  In a marriage, this is a lot tougher. I get how the criticism hurts.  Like nothing is ever good enough.  With a hyper critical person, the perfect becomes the enemy of the good. 

[Kwamina]

The things he complains about are mostly to do with me and my kids not fulfilling his expectations of order and obedience.

Perhaps it's time then that he changes his expectations and realizes that you and your kids are not his servants. Whether he changes or not though, is not something you can control. What you can control is how you respond to him and whether you are willing to set and defend boundaries with him when he behaves in a way you deem inappropriate or hurtful. He might be old school as Turkish rightly observes, but that does not mean that you can't get new school on him ;)

It's not the complaints so much as the belligerent and sarcastic tone in which they are delivered.  If I express hurt or anger he says "now everyone is yelling at me"  I'm an adult and can handle it but he is really alienating my youngest who is 12.  He talks to her rudely and on ocassion has reduced her to tears; she she doesn't like him.

I see two things here. When confronted with his abusive behavior, he assumes a victim role instead of taking responsibility for his actions and how they affect others. What I also see is an adult man verbally abusing a young child. Being old school is one thing, but being rude and verbally abusive is another thing. Why do you think he taks so rudely to your youngest?

He loves us and supports us in many practical ways, which are very important.  
…..
So how do I keep my family together and fill my bucket at the same time?

By focusing on what you can control, your own behavior, responses and boundary defenses. To protect your own well-being, but also that of your children and in essence the whole family unit, even though your husband might not perceive it like that. It is very difficult to heal in a constantly negative and hostile environment and unfortunately your husband is significantly contributing to the negativity and hostility.

It is great that you see he loves and supports you and your kids in many ways, but at the same time he seems to be also hurting all of you in many ways. Do you feel like he's fully aware and understands how negatively he is affecting all of you?

The Board Parrot

[Zabava]

Yes Turkish he is very old school.  He comes from a very traditional Eastern European family where Dad is King.  Both his parents worked full time jobs but his mother still did all the domestic labour and emotional caretaking. 

Compared to his father my husband is way more enlightened. I don't think he ever learned how to express his emotions and at the same time he grew up seeing women in a very subservient roll. 

I feel for him because I think his father was highly critical and always dissapointed in him.  So I get where he's coming from.

Kwamina, My therapist asked me the same question; does he understand how the impact of his behaviour on you?  I am starting to realize that he has no clue.

I have been through some very hard times the last couple of years emotionally and I have survived with the help of friends and therapy (and lately, this space) but no support from him.  I work around him, which makes me feel like a bad wife and at the same time very alone and pathetic.

[Zabava]

Also Turkish, I take your point about looking for a rescuer .  I think Pete Walker calls it the Salvation Fantasy.  I am very guilty of this.  At the same time,  I always felt like that  if anyone showed any interest in me it was a fluke and might never happen again.  I ignored the warning bells in my head...our first valentines day he threw some chocolate at me (literally and said "my mother said I should give you these".

The first time I met his parents his father told me all Irish people (my background)  are drunks who beat their kids.  Sadly, this was not far off the mark in my case but it hurt nonethèless.

I guess I have never felt accepted, respected or supported in my marriage. 

[Turkish]

We don't know what we don't know. 

My ex told me another cultural stereotype, that Mexican men were cheaters and beaters. Funny that she turned out that way. 

Her parents warned me about her when I asked them to marry her.  They listed her faults, none of her virtues (she warned me that this was typical in their culture). Her father approved of me because he said I could handle her.  I did for a time... so many 

[Harri]

Her parents warned me about her when I asked them to marry her.  They listed her faults, none of her virtues (she warned me that this was typical in their culture). Her father approved of me because he said I could handle her.  I did for a time... so many

Oh lordy!  Cultural or not that is just messed up.

My mom did the same, but with everyone, friends, teachers, dates, etc.  It was her moral duty and her duty to God to protect and warn others about me.  I still cringe when I think about it and remember her telling my friends about me.  Shameful things.

I always felt like that  if anyone showed any interest in me it was a fluke and might never happen again.  I ignored the warning bells in my head...

I can relate to this.  I was overwhelmed with gratitude and wonder if someone liked and accepted me.  I felt like I had to take it because it was far more than I deserved and I was lucky to receive such kindness even when they were abusive... heck maybe more so when they were abusive.

 

[Zabava]

Harri,

I am sorry you felt that way because I know how bad it feels to expect the worst and be grateful for any crumb of attention.

As I've said before, I had some very bad experiences as an adolescent and young adult as a result.  I feel like I met my husband at a time when I was trying to be very good because inside I felt very bad indeed.  I hid alot of myself because I was afraid of rejection.

[Zabava]

So after reading everyone's replies I have been thinking about the idea of family culture.  I realize that despite the intergenerational dysfunction my mum taught us to view our family as special and better than everyone else.  If you liked other people outside the family too much it was a betrayal.

I"m starting to realized just how isolated this made me as a kid and really throughout my life.  I started this thread talking about loneliness and I am starting to understand that part of the reason I isolate myself is because of the abuse I suffered. I've been reading a book about self-compassion by Beverly Engels and she talks about how toxic shame makes us afraid to connect. 

I  really appreciate the chance to connect here without judgement.

[Turkish]

My mother communicated that implicitely. 

I said something good about my 11th/12th grade history- government-econ teacher, but I said, "sometimes he mumbles"

My mom replied, "that's because he has something to hide!"

Funny. He and my 12th grade English teacher recruited me for the academic Decathalon team, and had me drop band in order to enroll in his 12th grade Honors Gov/Econ class (which was awesome enough that I was the only A in two sessions when I took Econ 1A in college).

Apropos of nothing that I remember,  "Timi is your 'fun' mother, but I get all of your  !" Timi was my BFF's mother and a neighbor.  She was also a teacher at my high school, and was responsible for pointing me on the good career path I'm on today, 30 years later.

I learned not to mention anything positive about anyone else to my mom, though I imagine in a normal family, it would be nice and normal to talk to one's parents like that. 

My D7 loves her teacher, and I hope she gets her for 2nd grade this coming year.  I agree with D. I do too, and I'm not threatened in the least by it.  That's normal. 

[Zabava]

Turkish,

I remember when I was about 7 having Koolaid at my friend's house and it tasted really good.  I innocently mentioned to my mum how I loved my neighbour's grape Koolaid and she lost her mind.  She smacked me and told me how much I had hurt her feelings.  She ranted about how if I loved my friends' mom so much maybe I should go live with her.  Now I think how crazy it was but at the time I felt so, so guilty.  This is just one example of many when she felt threatened by me or my sister or my dad making connections to other people.  She used to call my dad at his office when he was working late and accuse him of having an affair.  She would swear at his co-workers and humiliate him.

In a similar vein, I loved going to my grandmother's house because she was so kind and supportive to us.  If I misbehaved she wouldn't let us see our grandmother.  She kept me home from school if she was really mad, because I think she knew it was an escape for me. 

I survived my teenage years by disassociating and living in a fantasy world.  I never brought friends home because my parents were so volatile and I didn't want my friends to witness the drunken domestic violence. I basically lived a double life without any kind of compassion or guidance for what I was going through. 

 My own teenagers have taught me that it makes a family richer to welcome friends and I love having a house full of kids.  I feel angry that my parents deprived me of that.  And I kind of feel like a defective human being for being so afraid of letting people in.  Sorry for the rant.

[Turkish]

The defects you feel aren't intrinsic to who you are as a human being and an individual.  They were projected onto you by someone else.

Given what you said, dissociation was a natural defense to protect your core self.

[Zabava]

Turkish,

For sure disassociating was my saving grace.  I was so out of it that some of my teachers thought I was high all the time (I wasn't).  My parents were particularly dysfunctional during my teenage years and they were very violent towards each other.  The book I am reading says that witnessing domestic violence can be traumatic.  It was certainly scary. 

I know this may sound crazy but I need some feedback/reality check.  It's not normal for parents to beat each other is it?  Am I being oversensitive?

[Turkish]

No it's not, and exposing children to domestic violence can be a crime.  I was the verge of reporting my ex for exposing our children to it. 

I met one of my BFFs when he was 14 and I was 17. His dad and step-mom often called the cops on each other.  We made a game of sneaking around the property when the cops came.  These things are not normal. Well, the sneaking like ninjas was   It was his way of dealing with it since we couldn't go into the house.  We spent a lot of time not at home. 

A few months ago, I was talking to him on the phone.  I also mentioned my ex,  where there were restraining orders in both relationships either side of ours.  With her current stbxh, she got an ex parte order against her husband's bother after an incident where her husband tried to get her to interact with his brother.  My ex called the cops, the BIL ran off, and her husband was beaten and hog tied by the cops for resisting arrest.  He was so upset he didn't follow orders.  Such drama isn't normal. 

Less than a year later, he was upset with her (she can be very verbally abusive). He threw change at her.  Then he wouldn't shut up and mocked her in front of the kids.  He wouldn't stop. She got up and punched him in front of the kids.  She showed me her hand two days later and out was bruised.  She nailed him hard.  This isn't normal.  He kind of moved out soon after. 

A few months later, this was Christmas Eve, he came to get his stuff. He was renting a room somewhere.  They argued over something stupid like picture frames in a box.  He let go and her hand shot up and hit his chin.  He called the cops.  They both could have been arrested, but D, then 5, woke up and said, "are the cops here to arrest [step-dad]?"

His name was also on the lease (so they couldn't kick him out) , but when they told her to leave, she pulled the "you're going to kick into the cold a mother with two little kids?" Waif! He should have called the cops when she punched him.  She would have gone downtown.  This level of conflict and drama isn't normal. 

The sad thing is that summer I was driving the kids to swimming. D was cute and said she wanted to marry her brother.  Both he and I said you can't do that and is illegal.  I told them that I hoped they would marry kind and nice people.  S, then 7, said, "but I don't want to marry someone like mommy." Why not, buddy? "Because mommy punched [step-dad] and he didn't call the cops."  I was so angry when I heard that, but more sad.  Their mom grew up in a violent household (dad), and she knew better.  This isn't normal. 

[Zabava]

  having a bad moment.

[Harri]

What's going on?

[Zabava]

Just feeliing really really guilty that my kids have been stuck with me,  I don't feel like I can be a good mum with all my baggage.

[Harri]

What happened today to bring this on? 

[Turkish]

Just feeliing really really guilty that my kids have been stuck with me,  I don't feel like I can be a good mum with all my baggage.

A few years ago, my son was acting out at the dinner table. I was very angry  and frustrated and I slammed my fist into the table.  He was scared. I was horrified at myself,  am I being like my mother? I thought.  

Give yourself grace. I did. Kids are frustrating! They need discipline and boundaries, but they shouldn't be afraid of their parents.

[Zabava]

Harri, 

I've been thinking about this all day and I think my trigger was that I had a stressful day and couldn't handle it without retreating to my room to rebalance.  I also felt very very tempted to engage in bpd behaviour to relieve my anxiety.  My bpd self reaches out to friends who are toxic or just as messed up as me for comfort.  I always regret it because in my right mind I know they aren"t good for me.

I've been doing alot of bibliotherapy (reading Beverly Engel's work on abused children)  and finding insight but at the same time I find it upsetting.  I have no adults to talk to because my T is on vacation for 6 weeks and my husband is never here physically and emotionally.  In fact some of my reading makes me realize that he can be emotionally abusive.

He was gone overnight this weekend and as soon as he came back he started complaining about tasks left undone.  I spend a lot of time alone with my thoughts and feelings and it's not a happy place.  I feel like I'm living in a totally different universe from him and it makes me feel really bad and rejected...hence the bpd urges.  I am deeply ashamed of the bpd part of myself and I never want my kids to see it. 

[JNChell]

I’ll echo Turkish. Allow yourself some grace. A little room to say “I’ll do things differently the next time.” Kids are hard. I only have one and very part time. They can induce stress outside of what already stresses us. Our normal (which isn’t).

Here’s the reality that I see. A mother of 3 that has been to hell and back has found her way to this community. You’re doing the work. There’s a lot to be said for that. You contribute here to folks that are hurting while you’re hurting. That says so much about your moral fiber. Strong!

I didn’t take the time to read through your thread. It’s getting late. I just wanted to offer some support.

[Harri]

Zab.  Removing yourself and trying to regroup is a good thing.     Everyone has a stressful and can use some alone time.  Recognizing that is good.

I also felt very very tempted to engage in bpd behaviour to relieve my anxiety.  My bpd self reaches out to friends who are toxic or just as messed up as me for comfort.  I always regret it because in my right mind I know they aren"t good for me.

What sort of behaviors were you tempted with?   Can you tell us here so we can help you?  Getting them out in the light is the only way to take the shame away.

I am deeply ashamed of the bpd part of myself and I never want my kids to see it. 

Can you reframe the way you are looking at yourself here?  Rather than calling yourself BPD, which I assume is a bad thing and a way to shame yourself, that you look at your behaviors as ineffective and destructive coping skills that you are working to change.

You have come a long way Zab.  We all have more work to do and that is okay.  Labeling yourself with terms like BPD is not helping here.  I believe in being honest about our behaviors and owning them.  There is a point though where we cross the line and start abusing ourself.  that in itself is a poor coping skill that we learned and it leads to a shame spiral, perpetuates the abuse and keeps us tied to the past.

Let's change that.  Your feelings are okay, always.  Remember, feelings do not equal facts.  Use your awareness of them to identify patterns of behaviors and urges and then make conscious and deliberate choices to change things.  Sometimes that means telling that negative voice in your head to shut up and go away as it is lying to you.

 

[I Am Redeemed]

This thread has reached the posting limit and is now locked. Part 2 is here:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=338623.msg13068316#msg13068316