There are those times when you look back and you see... yes, this part of things was on me, but then there are other parts that become hazy and you wonder or you fear part of the wondering is the beginning of that slide into excusing. So, this post is mainly about perception check. It's long and may require a couple posts... it's hard to get that check without including it all. Thanks to those who take the time.
First, yesterday is a typically and understandably rough day for us. 12 years ago, we lost a 2 year old daughter to a tragic accident at home. I was hesitant to talk about anything that could involve conflict for that reason. Some days should just be left alone for those things.
We had had a fight two nights before and I had reached an "I think I'm done" point. But, sometimes she can be unpredictable in good ways and took initiative to send me a heart felt apology for a text she had sent while I had been sleeping. That text and others in our fight had been partially fueled by wine (she does not normally drink a lot, but had that night, probably to cope with emotions). When I told her that text, itself, had not been an issue, she was insistent that, whether I felt it or not, she felt responsible for it.
That isn't the first time she's owned things more recently. In fact, I can see her making a concerted effort to try to do so more often and it has come across genuine. Add to that that she followed the apology with a conversation about trying things from a new paradigm... one that had been suggested here and I had mentioned to her not long ago... to act more as a team and approach things as "us vs the problem" rather than "me vs you." I could see the effort and the heart in it and, combined with the recent efforts at taking ownership, I decided to give that a shot. We spent some time out together on a bit of a "date" to talk about it the night before last and then yesterday we hit a couple of bumps with minor fights during the day.
She wanted to try applying the "new paradigm" last night, testing it out on those bumps. The problems I saw were that... 1. the day was not a good one (see above), and 2. we had not really fleshed out *how* approaching it that way would or should work. It felt a little bit "cart before the horse", but I could see it was important for her and decided to try.
I found myself struggling with emotional regulation. It was like I could see the reactions coming up and was struggling with keeping myself even. It's not like I was raging or lashing out, but I could see where emotion was working its way into my reactions. On top of that, she had some reactivity going on as well, including a point where - because we had not agreed on approach - I had started off talking about some things and she reacted with a "well, the way I had thought we were going to do it is now f*cked."
Because I explain my perspective on what happened below in the third text down, I won't go through it here - see that text. But, the outcome of things after that text was that she went dead quiet with a silent treatment and after sitting by her for a bit, I quietly got up and walked out, seeking refuge in the top level of a large shed (or small barn, kinda)... but, unlike other times, it wasn't to retreat and sit "in my feels." I realized talking was not a viable option, but that did not mean I could not sit and process things in a way that could be productive to the "teamwork." I examined things and sent the following three messages to her. (Note: "end in mind" refers to Steven Covey's 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, a favorite book of hers - "begin with the end in mind.")
Text 1:I may understand a problem. There is no end in mind and there is no "how do we get to the end in mind."
We have this general "us vs problem" and "teamwork" idea. We have each voiced some ideas for approaching things, but even with those ideas, though they have been voiced, have they been agreed on as a course?
Even in the discussion, I had brought up the "one problem at a time" and questioned whether to treat the two discussions as separate problems and whether each should be addressed in individually as a "one at a time" and no conclusion was reached, leading to us going on with different thoughts. It also wasn't clear to me we were going to approach with your idea from earlier, which led to me explaining some things and led, in turn to your feeling it "
PLEASE READ canned."
I think we need to figure out the "how" and reach conclusions before we charge into the "do." So...
Do we have an end in mind? What does working through these things look like? What do we need to set in place to be same sheet as a team to make that reality?
Text 2:In fact, here is an idea. Your strength is vision. You are great at looking at the idea of what can be built. My strength is figuring out how to get there.
Yes, I think we each have some of each, but I'm speaking more about what we "lean toward" as strengths.
What if we were to use those strengths and while each of us should have input on both and both can be collaborative, you'd take the lead on how we work together on an end in mind and I'd take the lead on how we work together and figure out how we get there?
Text 3 was then sent after noticing that she was not online and probably already asleep (which turned out true), so I figured she would wake the next morning to the above and, with a fresh perspective perhaps, the following... which I had intended from a "identify the problem" perspective. I was working away at looking at it as "us vs problem" and processing from that perspective...
Text 3:
Something else, just as a note as I analyze where things broke down at the end there...
I recognized in myself a need to create more stimulus-response space. I also recognized that as a part of that, my own voice had gone up and become more rapid and probably argumentative sounding as a result of triggers in me.
I recognized a problem in that: when one of us changes into that mode or is perceived as doing so (I think both of us can be sensitive to tone), things often spiral.
I recognized a solution that I felt might help, seeing emotions already coming into things: aid stimulus-response control by keeping our tone and way we're speaking more even... "slow things down" in a way.
When I voiced problem+solution, I believe it was not really voiced clearly as problem+solution. My thought was a general "how we can slow the emotion down," but...
Not having really communicated it clearly in those terms, the "reading into" pitfall you had brought up came into play. You seemed to process "he's talking about someone... who is he talking about... is he talking about me?"
When you responded by saying you hadn't, I mishandled my own response. It was not productive of me to respond with "there's that reading into." In no way was that a good way to respond.
I'm not sure what you see, but this is where I see things as having gone awry. I think part of it was gravity of old paradigm "me vs you" ("does he mean me" -> defense "I wasn't", "there's the reading into" accusation communicating "you are doing this").
As I finished that up and sat a bit, I reflected on the day and the tragedy 12 years ago. I knew we both felt it inside. I realized that a reason she had wanted to push through and tackle a problem together yesterday of all days was that she felt she wanted some sort of "win" to come out of the day - something positive. I thought about how it had gone awry and how horrible she must feel having not gotten that "win" she had hoped for. What I wanted at that point was to go and hold her... to let her know that I recognized that and to give her comfort.
When I got to the room, she rolled over, back to my side of the bed. I climbed in and put a hand on her back (our "come cuddle" signal) and she waited a little, then did. I held her tight and started to say, "I know today is a rough day and I realize it was probably really important for you to find some sort of a 'win' in the day..." She cut me off. I don't remember exact words, but it was a short one or two words, laced with a bitter tone. I remember answering, "Okay. I just wanted to..."
And anger. "Witz, this feels like 'I'm going to hit you and then come and apologize and make nice!"
I recoiled, dropping my arm from around her in reaction, not saying anything but feeling slapped and realizing she was back into painting me black, the inference being that she had said before that I "(figuratively/emotionally) hit her and then come apologize and then later hit her again and cycle repeats like narcissistic abuse." This was the part of her that has been pointing to every reason, reasonable or not, that I am a narcissist. It's been a focus of hers lately and we've had talks where she wonders about me (and sometimes herself) as far as NPD-tendencies/maladaptations. So, the physical reaction of dropping my arm came out of a bit of a "oh crap... I see where we are."
She reacted immediately, ripping covers off, jumping up, throwing the door open and storming out in a fury. I laid there quiet for a bit, then realized I would not sleep, so got up and returned to the shed. Two nights prior, after that fight, she had opted to sleep on the couch - which happens sometimes when she is upset. Being out of the room allowed me/us space, but also allowed her the choice to lay down wherever she wanted.
She apparently read my texts (above, sent earlier) and then the following exchange...
Her:
Can you see how telling me you are sorry, expressing regret and remorse and then releasing your cuddle from me after inviting me to you just because I am expressing my hurt diminishes the word (sorry) and sends a message of “none of this is about you or how you are hurting but I sure want to think of myself as compassionate “ as well as coming across as narcissistic abuse?
Do you actually have the remorse you expressed repentance for? Did that repair anything that was broken?
Do you want to fix us because you want us rid of pain or is it all about fixing us so you stop hurting?
I know what your actions are saying. They tend to speak louder than words. But they seem to disagree with your words. When there are trust issues, and especially on a day like today that you even acknowledged, throw on top two other incidents I pushed past... what do you really want? Truly. Because I’m at a loss. Who do you want to be? What is important to you (first things first)? I’m not seeing win/win in anything going on right now. Can you help me understand why? Do you even want to understand me? You say you do but your actions say otherwise. Where is our synergy?
I have the end in mind, but do you really want to get us there?
Me:
I'm feeling this isn't going to work. I do understand that releasing the cuddle hurt and I am sorry. I don't think you understand where the cuddling was coming from or what I was voicing and why, which is what led to why it felt like a blow how you expressed your hurt.
It is probably better that we stop, whether that's to step back from "you vs me" or just to step back period.
Yes, I realize that here I am not as productive as I could be. I can see where the words can trigger, though I was also trying very hard to hold my own emotions at bay. I recognized a need to stop the conversation, though.
Her:
I see. No. It doesn’t seem like it is going to work at all. I ask questions and you dodge them. You ask me questions and push until I answer. That isn’t “you vs me” that is imbalance.
What she is referring to with "push until I answer" is a habit I've worked hard to break and made a lot of good headway in doing so. In fact, I can't even think of an example in the past month or probably two months. I voiced ownership of the tendency a few months prior, recognizing it came from FOO/childhood, and had told her it was something I would work on. She, in turn, *recognized* more recently that I *had* stopped it. So, here she is reaching back to a past habit she knows and has recognized I have made major progress in correcting. Funny thing is, I didn't even see that till now, because I was more focused on the "dodge them."
Me:
The way that your message reads comes across very "you vs me." It is angry and I understand it comes from hurt. Does it fit the end in mind you have? Are the questions genuine or out of anger and with points to them? It even starts off with wording you asked me not to use with you because it comes across as confrontational and couching accusation in question form ("can you see that...").
I am asking to stop because I feel this is not a time and mode in which we can communicate productively. Please understand that is why I am not answering the questions, not to dodge them but because I would rather we communicate better. Accusing me of dodging them feels to me like a bait.
Her:
I could go on about how your messages read. Accusing me of baiting you? Really?
Fine. I will stop. Not sure that will get either of us the end in mind but you seem to be insisting.
This is where my struggle shifted to not just asking her to stop, but struggling with stopping, myself. But, something I realize is... she knows the buttons to push. I am asking to stop and I see her as pushing them knowing full well what will provoke continuation (FOO related tendencies)... first, by accusing me of dodging the questions, then with the last part of this one, which I viewed as clear manipulation and bait.
Something I realize here that I am doing IS falling into that bait. I recognize I could have just simply stopped. I even knew it was bait. I also recognize that "calling her on things" IS a JADE accusation. I knew it would not play well, but I also knew that at a later date/time she would read back through things, possibly with more ability to see. Lately, she has been more able to review and consider "yeah, you were probably right... I was doing suchandsuch." That is part of the change. So, in a way, I was writing more for "future her" if that makes sense, but I did want to break the conversation off.
Me:
So, "_ sends a message of _", "coming across as __", "they seem to" and "your actions say" are okay because they express how you perceive things - they aren't confrontation, accusation and things I should see as such. I say "feels like" and it is accusation and it's okay for you to be upset by it.
"I will stop. Not sure that will get either of us the end in mind but you seem to be insisting." If I were to say this to you when you ask to stop a conversation because you see it doing damage, would you feel it's manipulative? That it blames and punishes you for asking for a conversation to end?
The problem is, even responding to it becomes part of the manipulation, because then I can be accused of responding to it - "I thought you wanted it to end." In that way, it's a manipulative parting blow... either a last jab (if I do not respond) or a way to say "I thought you said stop" if I do. Please do not do that.
Her:
You said stop. But you continue. Mixed message. Game? Do you just want last word? What is the deal?
Me: Okay.
Her: non answer
Continued next post...
