BPD mother trying to drive a wedge between me and my wife

[mancosbanjo]

I apologize for the length of this. It's been eating away at me and I have to reach out to someone.

My wife and I had our first child a little over two years ago. We are an older couple (late 30's) who waited until we were financially stable enough to provide a good life for our family without having to worry about money. I grew up in an abusive home and was absolutely terrified of being a father until it happened. Both of my parents have undiagnosed personality disorders, and I see traces of them in myself. It used to scare me, but I've learned to cope with it. But when my daughter was finally here, it was like someone flipped a switch, and I suddenly realized that all you have to do is try. In fact, I cant even understand how someone could be a terrible parent. Becoming a father has been the best thing that has ever happened to me. I had moved out west many years prior, partially to put distance between myself and my family but also because the open spaces were therapeutic for me. I needed to figure out who I was.

Well anyway, my wife had a very rough delivery. She had preaclampsia and was on bed rest for a few weeks before the delivery, and then had to have an emergency C section after a very difficult labor. It was very hard on her. Her mom came out from Wisconsin to help for about 6 weeks around the time our daughter was born. This was late October of 2017. Around Thanksgiving, my mother came out to meet her granddaughter. Before she even got there, I knew it was going to go poorly based on my mom's constant jabs at my mother in law (who she's never even met). She was upset that I didn't invite her out instead.

With both my wife and I being new parents, and with her still recovering, we were not in the mood to entertain guests. We were busy trying to figure out how to take care of a baby. I mentioned several times prior to her coming out that we wouldn't be doing much because my wife was recovering and we weren't getting much sleep. I thought my mother would be able to understand that. I explained what we had just gone through, but my mother didn't care. My wife and I were not cooperating with my mother's wishes to dress the baby up in every outfit she had (because she cried when we changed her), look at the boxes and boxes of pictures she had brought with her, let her take our picture, or sit on the floor together and look at the toys from my childhood she had brought. On day two, my mother threw a temper tantrum and stormed out of the house, saying how unwelcome we made her feel. 

A few days later, my mom called me and complained for about 45 minutes about my wife. I tried to tell her that she had to understand that she had just gone through something very difficult and had not yet recovered. Her response was a very sarcastic "Yeah, three weeks ago." I tried to get her to stop ranting and raving but she would not, so I hung up on her. I didn't speak to her for about a year and a half, and I was not planning on doing so again. During that time, she incessantly called and texted me leaving weird messages. sometimes they'd be about how much she loved me, then a day later it was like I was her worst enemy and she just didn't understand how I could have treated her that way. I didn't do anything. By this point in my life, I'd had enough of her racist or homophobic outbursts in public, or just making unnecessary mean comments about people who could obviously hear her. I don't want to be associated with that. It was the straw that broke the camel's back. So I cut her off.

My wife eventually decided that she would try to call my mother and talk to her. She thought it would help me because I was livid about the whole thing. So she called her and simply explained again why we weren't overly eager hosts and said that it seemed to be resolved, in spite of my mother telling her that she never said anything bad about her, and then going on to say she was offended when my wife told her she didn't believe her. She was offended by someone whose only offense was that they didn't believe her lie? Wow. Amazing.

I started cautiously talking to her again, but waited until she started making plans to come visit to bring up her temper tantrum. I didn't accuse her of anything, but rather just said I don't want to get into another fight. My mom insisted that she had done nothing wrong, and that it was in fact us who had wronged her, and then began attacking my wife again, telling me about all of the nasty things my wife had said to her during their conversation. It was a total lie. I didn't know what to say, so I said that we all need to agree to disagree on the matter and move on.

The next three conversations I had with her consisted of a brief introduction, then her naming some dates when she'd like to come visit, then berating my wife. Again, I'd stay calm and say we need to move past this. She would then angrily cancel her plans, call a couple weeks later and repeat. Each time she would become more hostile.

Now she is trying to invite herself to Christmas. This is the first Christmas that my daughter is old enough to understand, and we want it to be really special for her. Not traumatic. I can't trust my mom to behave herself. I told my mom today that Christmas wasn't a good time and made up a story about going to southern Arizona to go camping, but she could come the week before or the week after. She said "No, that won't work" and then began attacking my wife again. Only this time, she threw in a revision of the truth about how my wife is trying to keep me from my family, and that she's only bringing it up because she's my mother and she loves me. If anything, my wife is the only reason I've kept in touch with any of them. On top of that, she added "If anything ever happens to you two, I hope it won't be too late and I can still be here for you." I am furious.

My mother did not protect me from my abusive father. She did not help me when I was kicked out of the house for no reason and living in the park as a teenager. She said nothing while her siblings called me a fa*got for being a weird kid in high school (which happened because I was being abused at home), left me to stand out in a tornado while I was skateboarding as a kid and didn't have a ride home, put my brothers and I in the middle of a horrible divorce when we were just kids because she wanted child support, etc, etc, etc.

I definitely remember the hell I went through as a kid, and I've forgiven her for all of it.

I've spoken to a counselor and read Stop Walking on Eggshells, but nothing I've learned works with her. She has not been diagnosed with BPD, but it's pretty obvious. She can't hold a job because she can't get along with anyone, so now she tells everyone she's retired. She sits at home drinking and stewing, then calls me in the middle of the day at work to rant about my wife.

It's infuriating trying to talk to someone so irrational who changes the facts to fit her narrative, especially when I was there and know what actually happened. As far as I can see, the only thing my wife has ever done wrong was stolen away mommy's little boy.

At this point, I really don't care if I continue to have a relationship with her. Her "love" is based on superficial things like photos and commemorative keepsakes. It would be nice to resolve it, but I don't know how.  I'm at a complete and utter loss. I just want to preserve my own mental health. What am I supposed to do?

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

[Harri]

Hi and welcome. 

I am glad you are reaching out and talking with us.  It is a lot to deal with and you are in a difficult position.  We have several members who are dealing with a mother or mother in-law who are in a similar situation with the pwBPD (person with BPD) causing conflict.  You are not alone in that.

I've spoken to a counselor and read Stop Walking on Eggshells, but nothing I've learned works with her.

Can you tell us more about this?  What sort of things have you tried and for how long?  The more details you can give the better we will understand your situation.      

We offer tools and strategies that can help but are not a cure.  I look at the tools and specifically boundaries as helping me manage my own emotions and responses.  If we start using them to try to change the other person it is not going to work that well. 

So lets talk some more about the tools when you are ready and see what we can do.  In the meantime, just sharing your story is very important too so share as much as you want.  We get it here.

Again,

[pursuingJoy]

mancosbanjo, what a story. I can definitely relate to much of what you shared. For now, I too want to welcome you, and second what Harri said.

You offered numerous clear examples of why your concerns about your mom are justified. Im thankful you're already thinking about her impact on your daughter. You'll find this to be a really great support network of people who have either walked or are walking a similar path. You're not alone!

I'll check back in later. Until then, I hope you have a day off tomorrow, and that you enjoy it with your wife and baby girl.

pj

[Methuen]

Hello mancosbanjo!  Welcome to our community.  

I am so sorry for your travails with your mom.  You articulated your story so thoughtfully.  I could relate to many parts of your story, other parts a little less so. But the parts that are similar, make it feel like we could have the same mom.  I have been on this board about 4 months, and was grasping at straws (and air) for how to cope with my mom.  

I have learned so much in the last few months, that I feel like I would like to let you know there is hope, and that while your mother will never change, we (the children of our BP parent) can start to cope better with the mother we've been given, if we put in the effort, and have a will to learn about BP and how to change how we interact with a BP.  I have learned that we cannot interact with a BP the way we interact with our family, friends, community contacts, and other non BP people.  For me, managing a relationship with my mom means learning and implementing a new set of skills, one skill at a time.   Each skill can help. I have always been the kind of person that gets along with all kinds of people.  But my mom has always been difficult for me.  My husband always called us "oil and water".  I always felt like it must be my fault.  It is a big relief to understand it is not "my fault".  

I feel like I've just started my journey, but I know I'm learning a lot, and will be better able to manage my relationship with her, so I guess I'm passing on the hope that it can get better for you too.  And even when our mom's "go Borderline" and "act out" and rage and do all the manipulative stuff, I now have hope that we can learn to feel less conflicted and guilty about it.  It requires a bit of growth in the area of emotional detachment.  It's all a process, and takes time, and I don't get a new skill right the first time I try it.  But I'm taking baby steps, and it's helping me.  So while my mom will never change, I am slowly changing how I interact with her, and most importantly, how she makes me feel.  There is hope.

it was like someone flipped a switch, and I suddenly realized that all you have to do is try

I loved reading this part where you spoke about parenting and your daughter.  Your love and gratitude for your family comes through loud and clear.  It was beautiful.  Just wanted to say welcome, and it's good to have you here.  We all help each other!

[zachira]

You have done everything you can do to get along with your mother. For many us who have a mother with BPD who abused us, and now abuses us and the family we created, it is a process of figuring out whether we want to go low contact or no contact at that time, and often takes a few tries of low contact and no contact to figure out what works best and possibly decide to make that type of contact permanent. You have already tried no contact and then reestablished contact while limiting the contact. Often, we can get stuck feeling we have to make an absolute decision that cannot be modified.
Do take a look at the educational materials on this site and posts from other members on the PSI Board. There are many stories similar to yours and each individual decides how to stay the course.
Welcome to PSI! Do let us know how we can be the most helpful. We are here to listen and support you.  

[GaGrl]

Welcome!  

What comes through loud and clear in your post is that you've established a family and that the health and wellbeing of that family is your priority.

Keep that perspective! That core value will guide you through establishing boundaries and many decisions regarding your mother in the coming weeks and months.

Your wife sounds supportive and understanding. Again -- a huge plus!

We're here for you.

For right now, what is your main stress? Is it the intrusive Christmas demands?

[Sacdzine]

My mom has been doing this from the beginning. My husband said he always was made to feel like he was the 3rd wheel or like he was trying to steal her best friend.

I of course didn’t see it because I didn’t realize my mom was BPD until I got into a healthy relationship/marriage. At least you know that there is something wrong with your mom and what it is.

The first couple years of our marriage were so hard because I thought my mom was just misunderstood and that my husband was harsh and mean. Didn’t realize that my mom was manipulative and skewed in her perceptions.

My mom still tries to twist things around where my husband is some big mean a-hole when he’s never done anything to deserve that. He’s gone out of his way to be nice actually. Him and his family. But she will see things the way that she wants.

I am worried for the future and my kids. What if she presents her skewed perception to my kids about their father and his family. All kids know is that their grandmother said this or that. They don’t know that there is something wrong with grandmother.

Should we tell them? At what age?

[Methuen]

Hi Sacdzine:  Kids are pretty smart.  Sometimes they are smarter than we think.  Just be aware and observe them.  Listen to their conversations.  If your kids look uncertain or fearful or are saying things you are uncomfortable with, you can react differently than if they are acting in a more normal way.  At a certain age we found work-a-rounds for letting my mom drive our kids (she's a danger on the road).  We actually found work-a-rounds for a lot of situations, without saying anything "negative" about grandma to our kids.  Sometimes these work-a-rounds brought "push back" from my mom, but we always put our kids first, and worked together as a couple.  As our kids grew up, we were aware that they had intuition and instincts, just from conversations.  We just went with that.  Thankfully they also had a sense of humour about their grandma, and that helped a lot.  Thankfully she was also unaware of our family humour, because had she known, there would have been a lot more drama. Trust yourself to know when is the right time.  I don't know if it's possible to say what is the "right age" to tell kids, because everyone's situation with their BP SO is so entirely different, and every single child is also unique.  We just told our kids about their grandma having BPD a month ago.  Our kids are almost 23 and 25 yrs.  They were not surprised.  They didn't ask many questions about BP, and we didn't share details if they weren't asking.  We just gave them a brief history about a family Dr and 3 counsellors suggesting BPD.  But because I was struggling so much, our counsellor suggested it was important they know, so they could support me.  My mom is still their grandma, and they definitely bonded to her as kids, but even as younger children, they knew she had moods, and challenges, and was needy.  I personally believe in "letting kids be kids" and not burdening them with adult drama, but the exception is where a child's safety may be involved.  Everyone's situation is different, so trust your instincts is my thought.

I am worried for the future and my kids. What if she presents her skewed perception to my kids about their father and his family. All kids know is that their grandmother said this or that.

Just keep providing your kids with a safe, happy environment in your home.  Kids like to be where they feel safe and loved.  They don't want to hear negative stuff about their mom/dad, should your mom make the poor decision to say the negative stuff to them which you are worried about.  You can always ask them " would you like to go to grandma's house, or would you like to go to _____ (friend's name) house, and let the child make the decision.  In that child friendly approach, they can choose to go where they feel safe and happy, and in so doing, they will let you know how they feel about grandma.  And just

trust your instincts

[/i].  Go with your gut.  I really believe in that. 

[ProudDad12]

Hi mancosbanjo, I saw your post a few days ago and have been wanting to respond, but haven't been quite sure what to say. It appears you already have a great start from a standpoint of awareness and how to respond! But as you know this stuff is hard so I'm glad you've found this board, lots of great people on here who are happy to help or be a shoulder to lean on.

Your mom sounds like my mom in a lot of ways. Though mine hides it pretty well and maintains a good image/status in her small town. Only a privileged few get to see her other side.

But so many of your experiences sound similar. I won't re-hash my whole story here but feel free to check out some of my other posts. And grab a cup of coffee or make a sandwich, because my posts are long too! I think it just goes with the territory of trying to explain this stuff and getting it out.

In any event, it does appear she is trying to drive a wedge. It's good that you are aware, and maintain that awareness for if/when she takes a more subtle approach. Sometimes the tactics are easy to miss.

My mom insisted that she had done nothing wrong, and that it was in fact us who had wronged her, and then began attacking my wife again, telling me about all of the nasty things my wife had said to her during their conversation. It was a total lie.

This sounds so familiar. Never does anything wrong, always the victim. Is this typical for her? Do you typically hear from her about how others are wronging her as well?

Only this time, she threw in a revision of the truth about how my wife is trying to keep me from my family, and that she's only bringing it up because she's my mother and she loves me.

My mom is a master of this; of using the truth in a misleading way or twisting it just right that it seems legit.

I've spoken to a counselor and read Stop Walking on Eggshells, but nothing I've learned works with her.

Eggshells is a great book, one of the first ones I read in this area. But don't expect anything to work with her. Most of the work will be on yourself, as it has with me. If nothing else the books are good for gaining knowledge that allows you to step back and think objectively, especially when you see her behavior being almost "textbook". And they provide tools for how to respond (or not respond). For my part, I've had to work hard on the following things:

1) Resist the programmed urge to react/respond to my mom's fear, guilt, and obligation tactics that worked so well on me for so long.

2) Worry about myself, my wife, and our kids, and not worry about keeping my FOO happy.

3) Allow myself to set healthy boundaries, even when it means complete no contact with my family, for the sake of my nuclear family's emotional and mental well being

4) Be mindful of the unhealthy and abnormal nature of my family's interactions and dynamics.

Her "love" is based on superficial things like photos and commemorative keepsakes.

Same here! My mom is all about "buying" love with gifts. And when our daughter was born, she was all about basically treating her like a baby doll. And taking perfect pictures of her posed different ways.

It's infuriating trying to talk to someone so irrational who changes the facts to fit her narrative, especially when I was there and know what actually happened.

My mom wants told my cousin "Just do what I do... say it and deny it later". Honestly, even in non-conflict situations, my mom can't keep a story consistent. Or even her own opinions for that matter. And yes, it is completely infuriating.

It would be nice to resolve it, but I don't know how.  I'm at a complete and utter loss. I just want to preserve my own mental health. What am I supposed to do?

So this is where it gets down to brass tacks; and it's difficult. While anything is possible, don't put too much hope in resolution. Your mom is who she is, and you can't change that, nor do you bear that responsibility.  A more likely scenario would be to get to a place where you understand how your mom is, and use that awareness to not take it personally or not let it affect you (as best as your able). The way our therapist put it, whenever she's acting out, just mentally use one of the common phrases we have in the South... "Bless her heart".  Basically, remember a tiger has its stripes.

However, it may be that for your mental health you need compete separation and go no contact. This is the route my wife and I have had to take in recent months. It can be difficult, but in a lot of ways it grants you a certain freedom. At the end of the day, as you know, your wife and daughter are your priority!

Good luck, and know you have lots of support available here!