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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: Boyfriend's ex suddenly doesn't want me around the kids  (Read 1471 times)
cpmc

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« on: December 17, 2019, 10:06:08 AM »

Hi all,

This is my first post. I ended up here after scouring the internet for resources on how to deal with my bf's ex with BPD.

So long story somewhat short...

My bf and I have been together well over a year. He has two kids with his ex- a 4yr old daughter and 12yr old step-daughter. He treats his step-daughter as his own and has shared 50/50 custody of both kids since he and his ex separated.

I've been around the kids for about 9 months and have good relationships with both of them- especially the eldest. My bf's ex has been friendly with me in the past and expressed that she was happy I was around. We even did a couple joint dinners for special occasions.

Unfortunately the ex went off the rails about 6 months ago and it has been an ongoing disaster ever since. She has tried to break my bf and I up, she's threatened to have him arrested (again), threatened to "ruin his life" etc etc. She's yelled and screamed at him in front of the kids. The four year old looked at me one time and told me "mommy doesn't like you."

She is diagnosed and in therapy and she is supposed to be checking herself in to the hospital to see a psychiatrist soon.

Her new obsession is that she doesn't want me around the eldest daughter, and threatens to not let her come see my bf anymore if he doesn't comply. She told him she feels threatened by me and needs time to get used to me being around. She never mentions the youngest, which I believe is because she thinks that she has the right to withhold custody of the eldest daughter. My bf has been to see a lawyer and has been assured that he has full parental rights. 

My bf initially suggested that we agree to her terms for now, as in me not being around the kids (it would be both kids since they're with him at the same time). I wasn't okay with this, and he ended up offering her a compromise where he said I wouldn't see them during the week when he has them and I wouldn't spend the nights on the weekends he has them.
 
I don't want to make my bf's already difficult life more difficult, but it's extremely hurtful to me to let her dictate our relationship like that and to restrict when I can see him and the girls, especially since I've been around them for months and have been nothing more than a friend to them. I know he is afraid to stand up to her because of the fear of what she'll do.

I guess I'm wondering if it's better that he stand up to her and not let her dictate when I can and can't be around, or if I should just suck it up for a while and hope things improve?

Any guidance or insight would be most appreciated Smiling (click to insert in post)
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worriedStepmom
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« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2019, 10:51:01 AM »

Welcome!  I'm so sorry that you need to be there.  There are lots of stepmoms here Smiling (click to insert in post)

Your instincts seem pretty sound so far! H and I have been married 7 years, and his uBPDex continues to feel threatened by me.   There is nothing I can possibly do to make her comfortable with my existence.  

I'm guessing that this started right about the time you and your BF started to get more serious?  That's when H's ex began to try to alienate SD from me.  From ages 4-6, SD waited until she and I were alone and told me all the awful things mom said about me.  I asked how those things made her feel, validated her feelings, asked what she thought, and occasionally offered my opinion ("it sounds like mommy might be confused").  I never expressed anger at her mom (although a few times I laughed out loud), and I always praised her for wanting to talk about hard stuff like this.  After 2 years SD decided mom's opinions weren't trustworthy, and those conversations just stopped.

I spent years trying to prove to uBPDex that I wasn't trying to take over her job (I have 2 biokids who have a stepmom; I get it), and she always found something to complain about.  (My favorite - she called me screaming because I dared to pack a school lunch for her daughter ... while I was making lunch for my biokids ... and accused me of "trying to steal her daughter one peanut butter sandwich at a time." )

As long as your bf's legal case for both kids is sound, then I wouldn't agree to her request. Appeasing her is not going to make her fear and resentment go away.  It will instead validate her fear that you *are* a threat to her, and it will be modeling dysfunctional behavior for the kids.  

If she is about to be hospitalized, is she capable of adequately caring for the kids at this point in time?  SD's mom was hospitalized twice in the last year (one voluntary, one not).  This tended to happen after more severe dysregulation (and outlandish requests like the one your bf got) and tended to correlate to times when she felt she was "losing" her daughter.  (Edited to add - and it was a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Thanks to her behavior, H got primary custody last year, and just signed the papers so that he has an 85/15 schedule with no overnights for ex.)

We didn't know about BPD until last year, and we didn't realize until much too late that we were spending so much effort trying to make ex feel less threatened that we weren't adequately protecting SD from her mom's emotional abuse.  
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« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2019, 10:56:26 AM »

Welcome.  I'm sorry to see you here.  I can definitely relate to what you are going through.  My story is not exactly the same (H had an affair and we separated...resulted in SS being born and H and I then got back together).  BPD has always thrown the biggest fit about SS being around me.  I am the main problem for everything in her mind.  She has told SS3 that I am a piece of s*** and she doesn't like me and I'm bad.  You name it, she has said it or done it.  

When H moved back home (2 1/2 years ago), he stupidly signed a bogus agreement where he could only see SS at her place and around her and he wasn't allowed to take SS to our home or have him around me (or our D's).  Let me tell you, that was awful.  So, as hard as it is for your BF to tell her she has no right to dictate that, I think he needs to stand up for himself.  The more he gives in, the more the manipulations will continue.  BPD used the excuse that she had to get used to the situation and having SS around me.  That was just a rouse to guilt and manipulate H.  I fear your BF is falling into the same trap my H did.  And now that H has put his foot down, the situation has gotten so ugly and is causing so much stress/strain/financial issues in our lives.  

You are not to blame for any of this and you are not the cause for any issues he has with his children.  His ex will do this with anyone in her life.  And I would bet that if she is seeing someone, she will lie to your BF about it and expose the kids as much as she wants.  He has every right to introduce his kids to anyone he sees fit.  It's up to him to make good judgment calls.  If his L says she can't change the custody and he is well within his rights, I would suggest following that advice.

Good luck.  This is not an easy road, but just keep doing what you are doing.
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GaGrl
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« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2019, 12:43:58 PM »

Welcome!   Welcome new member (click to insert in post)  We stepmoms have really been there, done that.

One thing that might help your bf in dealing with his ex is to tell her -- consistently, religiously -- that "I intend to follow the court order."

So if there is nothing in the order forbidding either mom or dad from having relationship partners interact with the children, then her demands have no standing.

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« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2019, 12:52:21 PM »

"Appeasing" is not a long term solution.  Maybe a negotiated middle ground could be attempted with a less unreasonable person, but people with BPD (pwBPD) are driven more by feelings, emotional perceptions and the moods of the moment.  Did he make it clear it was only for a short time?  I like the way GaGrl gave the no-nonsense response... "I intend to follow the court order."

What that means is that if she doesn't follow the parenting schedule as contained in the order, then father would have basis to seek redress with a Contempt of Court petition to have her follow the order.  However, on the flip side, lots of judges will be wimps and not support real consequences for someone who doesn't follow the order, well, not until a pattern of noncompliance emerges.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2019, 12:59:33 PM by ForeverDad » Logged

cpmc

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« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2019, 01:23:49 PM »

Welcome!  I'm so sorry that you need to be there.  There are lots of stepmoms here Smiling (click to insert in post)

Your instincts seem pretty sound so far! H and I have been married 7 years, and his uBPDex continues to feel threatened by me.   There is nothing I can possibly do to make her comfortable with my existence.  

I'm guessing that this started right about the time you and your BF started to get more serious?    

Thank you SO much for your response and feedback...extremely helpful! The ex was actually seeing someone herself and then they broke up which I think is when it started getting really bad and she started focusing all her issues on us :/ Sorry for everything you've gone through as well, incredibly stressful. I've brought up with him as well if she should really be caring for the kids right now...he's confident that she's better when they're around. It's when they're with him and she's all alone that she loses it right now.
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« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2019, 01:25:53 PM »


Good luck.  This is not an easy road, but just keep doing what you are doing.

Thank you SO much for your response...it's really helpful hearing another perspective from people who have been through similar things Smiling (click to insert in post) Smiling (click to insert in post) Sorry for what you have had to go through as well.
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« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2019, 01:26:52 PM »

Welcome!   Welcome new member (click to insert in post)  We stepmoms have really been there, done that.

One thing that might help your bf in dealing with his ex is to tell her -- consistently, religiously -- that "I intend to follow the court order."

So if there is nothing in the order forbidding either mom or dad from having relationship partners interact with the children, then her demands have no standing.



Thank you for your response! And this is great advice. I agree being consistent is super key. Thanks again Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2019, 01:28:46 PM »

"Appeasing" is not a long term solution.  Maybe a negotiated middle ground could be attempted with a less unreasonable person, but people with BPD (pwBPD) are driven more by feelings, emotional perceptions and the moods of the moment.  Did he make it clear it was only for a short time?  I like the way GaGrl gave the no-nonsense response... "I intend to follow the court order."

What that means is that if she doesn't follow the parenting schedule as contained in the order, then father would have basis to seek redress with a Contempt of Court petition to have her follow the order.  However, on the flip side, lots of judges will be wimps and not support real consequences for someone who doesn't follow the order, well, not until a pattern of noncompliance emerges.

He made it clear it was temporary...but there wasn't a specific time period stated which I think is a problem. If we are waiting for her to suddenly be okay with it I think we'll be waiting forever. Thank you so much for your response and feedback, this is helpful!
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« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2019, 01:47:30 PM »

he's confident that she's better when they're around. It's when they're with him and she's all alone that she loses it right now.

That is what we thought, too.  Then we discovered that the reason we didn't get as much crazy unloaded on us when SD was with her mom was that SD was expected to manage her mom's emotions.  mom was having meltdowns about how awful/evil we were and insisting that SD "fix it" by reassuring mom that mom was awesome.

If your SD12 has a phone, is bf able to monitor it?  We learned what was really going on through the texts that mom was sending my SD, and because my SD starting showing stress-related behaviors (not sleeping well, nervous tics, constant runny nose).
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« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2019, 01:57:15 PM »

That is what we thought, too.  Then we discovered that the reason we didn't get as much crazy unloaded on us when SD was with her mom was that SD was expected to manage her mom's emotions.  mom was having meltdowns about how awful/evil we were and insisting that SD "fix it" by reassuring mom that mom was awesome.

If your SD12 has a phone, is bf able to monitor it?  We learned what was really going on through the texts that mom was sending my SD, and because my SD starting showing stress-related behaviors (not sleeping well, nervous tics, constant runny nose).

Hmm that is a good thought. She does have a phone and he can monitor it. I'm not sure how much he looks at the texts from her mother, I might suggest that. I know that the ex has text the 12 year old in the past when the kids have been with us to see if I'm there and whatnot. Also both kids have been sick a lot lately and the 12 year old has definitely been stressed. I've honestly been less convinced than bf that she is okay with the kids but didn't want to question his judgment I suppose.
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« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2019, 02:20:40 PM »

It's possible that he's right, and that she is keeping it together with the kids.

It's also possible that he's still in the FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) and isn't quite able to see it clearly or was conditioned to accept the abnormal as normal.

You will play a valuable role in the family because you don't have that same conditioning - you've already pointed out to him that some of this is reallllly off.  It can be hard, though, to strike the right balance of supporting his decisions and helping to protect his kids, especially since you aren't married or living together yet.  You don't want to overstep your place in the relationship, either.

You might suggest to him that if she's in crisis enough that she needs psychiatric hospitalization, then she doesn't need the stress of parenting.  Our new custody doc specifies that if mom is hospitalized for mental health issues or if her doctor or therapist recommends that she be hospitalized, it goes automatically to supervised visitation until enough time has passed that we can tell mom is stable (at least 6 months).
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« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2019, 02:55:35 PM »

It's possible that he's right, and that she is keeping it together with the kids.

It's also possible that he's still in the FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) and isn't quite able to see it clearly or was conditioned to accept the abnormal as normal.

You will play a valuable role in the family because you don't have that same conditioning - you've already pointed out to him that some of this is reallllly off.  It can be hard, though, to strike the right balance of supporting his decisions and helping to protect his kids, especially since you aren't married or living together yet.  You don't want to overstep your place in the relationship, either.

You might suggest to him that if she's in crisis enough that she needs psychiatric hospitalization, then she doesn't need the stress of parenting.  Our new custody doc specifies that if mom is hospitalized for mental health issues or if her doctor or therapist recommends that she be hospitalized, it goes automatically to supervised visitation until enough time has passed that we can tell mom is stable (at least 6 months).

He is definitely still in the FOG. That balance is definitely what I'm struggling with right now. And that is a great suggestion, thank you, again!
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« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2019, 07:23:15 AM »

Hello and welcome!

You're in a great place for support. These aren't just difficult relationships, they're the most difficult.

Excerpt
My bf initially suggested that we agree to her terms for now, as in me not being around the kids (it would be both kids since they're with him at the same time). I wasn't okay with this, and he ended up offering her a compromise where he said I wouldn't see them during the week when he has them and I wouldn't spend the nights on the weekends he has them.

Meaning, you will see them on the weekends (daytime) and won't see your bf during the week?  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

Excerpt
I don't want to make my bf's already difficult life more difficult

Oh honey, you are not making his life more difficult. You're the silver lining. His ex made his life difficult, and she's still making it difficult. He doesn't help himself much either when he appeases her.

She's feeling out of control and trying to control what she can to help stabilize herself (unhealthy). It never works. The need for control is bottomless.

By checking herself into a hospital, do you mean inpatient treatment?

She's barely hanging on, it sounds like. Has she been hospitalized before?

What happened when he was arrested the first time?
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« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2019, 08:15:41 AM »


By checking herself into a hospital, do you mean inpatient treatment?

She's barely hanging on, it sounds like. Has she been hospitalized before?

What happened when he was arrested the first time?

Thank you for your support and insight- this is all so helpful  Smiling (click to insert in post)

She is supposed to (I'll believe it when it actually happens) check herself in for a psych evaluation. Her therapist told her she is beyond her help. I think ex believes she'll just be in for the weekend although I'm not sure about that. She hasn't been hospitalized before that we're aware of.

When her and my bf first separated she disappeared for the day with the kids and he was concerned she had taken off so called the police. By the time they arrived to talk to him she had returned, but she ended up fabricating a big story involving abuse etc against him and he was arrested and charged. He was never convicted and entered into a peace bond. She keeps threatening to call the cops and tell them he broke the peace bond (the only condition being to "keep the peace").
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« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2019, 08:30:15 AM »

She keeps threatening to call the cops and tell them he broke the peace bond (the only condition being to "keep the peace").

Eventually, she will do this.  May not be this year, but the more she threatens it, the more she will think she is justified in doing this.

Does he records his conversations with her?  This can be helpful for him if he has to prove that he didn't do...whatever she claims he did.
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« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2019, 09:13:50 AM »

Eventually, she will do this.  May not be this year, but the more she threatens it, the more she will think she is justified in doing this.

Does he records his conversations with her?  This can be helpful for him if he has to prove that he didn't do...whatever she claims he did.

Eeeek.

He does record their conversations now yes...and saves all the emails, texts etc.
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« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2019, 09:15:33 AM »

He's doing a great job with documentation, then!  That's hard for a lot of people to do, but it's a great way to CYA. 

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« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2019, 10:05:15 AM »

He's doing a great job with documentation, then!  That's hard for a lot of people to do, but it's a great way to CYA. 



Ha yep, he definitely learned that lesson the hard way!  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2019, 10:49:33 AM »

What's the current custody schedule like?

Is SD's biodad in the picture at all, or is bf her only dad?
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« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2019, 10:55:22 AM »

What's the current custody schedule like?

Is SD's biodad in the picture at all, or is bf her only dad?

So currently they switch off every two days and alternate weekends. Bf will have them Mon Tues, she'll have them Weds Thurs, then he'll have them Friday Sat and Sunday. Then it switches the next week.

Biodad is not/has never been in the picture so bf is her only dad. He had to have a conversation with her a few weeks ago after ex was yelling at him in front of her "you're not her father you have no rights". He asked her if she knew what was going on...she said she thought so...that mom doesn't want her coming to see him anymore. And he asked what she wanted. She told him that she loved him and he was her only dad and she didn't want to lose him. So heartbreaking that she has to deal with this.
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« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2019, 01:29:45 PM »

You may have to have the patience of a saint to work with your BF -- he will be learning from you how to handle his ex, even though he may think he knows her best.

At the same time, you were just relegated to a one-down position. That isn't sustainable for a self-respecting person no matter how much you two love each other.

Often in these relationships we have to have boundaries for two. Or three. It isn't easy and it takes a lot of verbal finesse plus a ton of relationship-building. On one hand you can't chip away at him and be part of this campaign to weaken him (like ex is), but you also can't roll over and let the ex get to call the shots.

The middle path is to support him and help him navigate this stuff without losing your own values and self-respect in the process. That might mean defining for yourself what is and isn't ok, then sticking to those values and boundaries. If you're ok doing this for ______ weeks/months, then now is the time to say that. It's your boundary. It's where your self-respect will pivot and where he will learn what he needs to do to respect you.

"I've been thinking about this a lot. I'm ok with this schedule for a limited period of time. I'm not ok with it indefinitely. Let's talk about what that might look like for us. Let's set aside a time on day/date and talk about a realistic solution to this bind ex has created for our relationship. If you're open to it, I'm also good with finding a mediator or counselor who can help us come up with solutions."

You're not asking him to make a choice (his ex is doing that). You're telling him this is what matters to you, and if he cannot give you an answer (what things look like for you going forward), then that will help you gauge where he's at. When people feel emotionally overwhelmed, they often struggle with problem solving abilities, BPD or not. He may feel that you're giving him an ultimatum -- the key is to stay calm and let him be upset about encountering a new boundary that potentially makes him feel like the walls are closing in, again. He will cool down faster the more emotionally anchored you are, especially if you reassure him that you see many possible solutions and it's ok to go slow and try things to see what works.

I spent time trying to convince my husband to have boundaries with his D23 (BPD) which had the opposite effect of what I wanted. It destabilized our relationship instead of strengthening it. At first.

Then I started focusing on my boundaries with him. If she was getting through boundaries that H wasn't defending, then I created my own with him.

We have boundaries that I don't even discuss. They just happen (I have control over them). Then I have stated rules (I listed them out) that H follows. The consequence for not following those rules is that I will talk directly with SD23. Just the thought of that makes him nervous so he's been pretty great at following the rules   Being cool (click to insert in post)

Glad you found this group. There's a lot of helpful collective wisdom from people who understand the nitty gritty of what you're going through.

 Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2019, 01:52:32 PM »


Glad you found this group. There's a lot of helpful collective wisdom from people who understand the nitty gritty of what you're going through.

 Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

Thank you so much for this  Virtual hug (click to insert in post) Super helpful.

I actually ended up having the boundaries talk with him yesterday. Thankfully for me he is very receptive to my thoughts and feelings about the situation 99% of the time. He understood and agreed with me...and wrote out an email to the ex last night confirming that he wouldn't be keeping the kids away from me, and he intended to continue on with custody of both kids as per the separation agreement. We're kind of just waiting on the fallout right now  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2019, 02:04:45 PM »

We're kind of just waiting on the fallout right now  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

Good for your bf!  As lnl said, the key is to have strong boundaries. 

What are you most worried about happening?  What kind of fallout is normal when she's upset like this?  We can help you devise boundaries to mitigate some of it.
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« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2019, 02:32:48 PM »

Good for your bf!  As lnl said, the key is to have strong boundaries. 

What are you most worried about happening?  What kind of fallout is normal when she's upset like this?  We can help you devise boundaries to mitigate some of it.

That's a great question actually...

My boyfriend's biggest fears are that she'll follow through on her repeated threats to him...call the police, call his work (daycare) and tell them he's a child abuser. Also that she'll withhold SD and he won't see her for some time. He's basically afraid she'll ruin his life.

Normally the fallout when she has an episode is that she just explodes verbally at pick up/drop off, sends us both nasty messages etc. and make all her threats to him. She's called his family in the past too.

I've honestly been of the opinion lately to "let her blow up" because if she does she's supposed to check herself into the hospital...and then maybe she can get the help she clearly needs. I think he's finally coming around but has always been of the mindset that he needs to do everything he can to keep her calm for the sake of the kids.
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worriedStepmom
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« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2019, 02:35:53 PM »

How do you both usually handle it when she starts send nasty messages or being verbally abusive in front of the kids?

Has he thought about what he'd do if she does withhold SD?
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Harri
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« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2019, 10:58:40 PM »

Staff only

This thread reached maximum length and has been split.  Part 2 is located here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=341866.msg13092893#msg13092893

Thank you.
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