Advice on handling over the top gifts from NC MIL

[MamaLlamaDrama]

Hi Everyone. I lurk a lot on here and take in everyone's stories and advice and it has honestly been life changing. We're NC with my uBPD MIL going on 6 months. There's too much to unpack to explain everything, but things have been really bad since our daughter was born OCT 2018. We've been no contact since Sept 2019 after trying for nearly a year to forgive her for her behavior. Things kept escalating until her verbal assault of us at my BIL's wedding. My husband hasn't responded to her texts since. She texts every once and a while- never apologizing. I have her blocked on all social media but my husband doesn't. So she'll see videos or pictures of our daughter and text my husband referencing them. My mother in law uses gifts as a form of manipulation. In addition to silly meaningless presents for every holiday (including a banana for Halloween because she saw a video of our daughter enjoying a banana) she has given over the top gifts to our daughter already. She gave a 1 year old a giant wooden dollhouse (BIL brought it to our house since we aren't talking to MIL) 
She sent our Daughter an American Girl doll (something that I planned on doing with my daughter when she was old enough)For Valentine's Day she sent a huge stuffed animal sea turtle because she saw on my husband's social media that now our daughter loves sea turtles. Anyone who doesn't know how she uses gifts as manipulation would say that she just wants to give our daughter something that she loves. But that's not the case. She texted my husband the night before the package arrived to let us know it was arriving. After it was delivered she texted him again saying "I got a notification that the package has been delivered. I'd appreciate if you could let me know that you've received it" This is after he hasn't responded to a text in 6 months. Not even at Christmas. The issue is that we're about to move. And before this incident we had agreed that he would text his dad and let him now that we were moving. We now don't think it's appropriate to text his dad about the move and not mention the gift. My thought is for him to say something along the lines of " Hey Dad, I wanted to let you guys know that we're moving to (town we're moving to). I also wanted to let you know that we got the sea turtle. Mom texted saying she got a notification that it was delivered but wanted me to confirm. I'm not ready to speak with her yet. In the future if you need a response from sending gifts please don't feel obligated to send them."Is this too aggressive? I'd rather not have any gifts ever since they all just end up in our storage anyway because they're mostly age inappropriate or something we'd have wanted to give her ourselves, but i don't think my husband is comfortable saying "no gifts" since he's been conditioned to appreciate gifts as a form of love his whole life. Any advice would be very very appreciated. 

[GaGrl]

Gifts from pwBPD are touchy. They are frequently lavish, inappropriate, and manipulative.

My step-children have learned that gifts from their mother (uBPD/NPD) have conditions attached, and favors can be abruptly withdrawn.  Our older grandaughter (18) knows there are strings but isn't yet mature enough to resist the lure -- she has had her feelings hurt on multiple occasions. The 3-year-old just revels in the fun.

People on the board have had different solutions -- storage (as you do), accepting gifts while maintaining distsnce, returning unopened gifts, donating to charity.

Your MIL seems unwilling to acknowledge NC, so her gifts appear to be manipulations to open contact with you.

What are your preferences?

Will you give your new address to your parents?

Does your H see his dad separate from his mom?

[kma79]

I'm not sure that I can offer much advice since I'm really new on here, but I just wanted to share that my BPD mom uses gifts as manipulation as well. She won't apologize for abusive behavior either, but she will sometimes send gifts and checks mainly for my kids. When she gets into an abusive mood, she will say things like we are spoiled brats since she gave us a gift and we don't appreciate her enough. There is no amount of appreciation that would please her. We have been nc with her in the past (for years), and she would occasionally send a check to my young kids as a gift for a holiday. It was easier with the checks since we would just not deposit them. I feel similar to you that I would rather not receive the gifts. In my case, they are often a gesture that will be held against me later on even though I send my mom gifts on holidays too (when we are in contact). I'm going to check back to see what advice people give. I'm interested in knowing the best way to handle this too.

[MamaLlamaDrama]

What are your preferences?

Will you give your new address to your parents?

Does your H see his dad separate from his mom?

My preferences are to having nothing from her. However I understand this isn't possible and causes my husband grief. I would like to give them away/ return them (on the few occasions we get a receipt)
I'm scared that when my daughter gets older she will find this stack of presents we've never given her and resent us. I may be wrong but I feel like this is part of the hope of MIL. She dates every card she sends, and I feel like that is so she can prove to our daughter that she tried.

My parents are VERY involved and have been to the new house and will have the address. They watch my daughter 3 days a week at least. My husband has a great relationship with them.

My FIL is VERY enmeshed. He will only reach out to my husband after MIL tells him to. It will always be in MIL words or standing up for her. He has never seen us or reached out on his own. Shown no interest in having a relationship with my husband or daughter without his wife.

When she gets into an abusive mood, she will say things like we are spoiled brats since she gave us a gift and we don't appreciate her enough. There is no amount of appreciation that would please her.

Yes! This actually is the root of our fight in September. She yelled (in front of extended family and friends) that I was an ungrateful b****.
I'm not sure how I can be grateful when I don't want any of the gifts. I was hoping she wouldn't get me anything for Christmas since we aren't speaking, but she got me a basket of Christmas dollar store baking things. I kept what I would use but mostly recycled/threw it out. It was so cheap I felt embarrassed to even re-gift it.

[Methuen]

She gave a 1 year old a giant wooden dollhouse

Developmentally inappropriate for a 1 year old, and she would know that.  This sounds more about her, than the child.

BPD's often equate Love=money and function by "purchasing" love.  As you know, it always has strings attached.

She texted my husband the night before the package arrived to let us know it was arriving. After it was delivered she texted him again saying "I got a notification that the package has been delivered. I'd appreciate if you could let me know that you've received it"

This sounds so clearly like a "hook" designed to draw you/son in, and have her own needs met.  

When it was delivered, was a "signature" required at delivery?  

Does your H want to accept these deliveries?  What about "returning to sender", or simply not signing for them?  I'm not sure if that's something you and H want to consider.  But, since she is using gifts as manipulation, as long as you keep accepting them, she is going to keep sending them.  So what can you do to change up that behavior?

" Hey Dad, I wanted to let you guys know that we're moving to (town we're moving to). I also wanted to let you know that we got the sea turtle. Mom texted saying she got a notification that it was delivered but wanted me to confirm. I'm not ready to speak with her yet. In the future if you need a response from sending gifts please don't feel obligated to send them."

This is tricky.  On one hand, it sounds like you are trying to find a solution to a really difficult situation.  On the other hand, if you are accepting gifts, it is a social norm to acknowledge receipt and say thank you.  

I'd rather not have any gifts ever since they all just end up in our storage anyway because they're mostly age inappropriate or something we'd have wanted to give her ourselves, but i don't think my husband is comfortable saying "no gifts" since he's been conditioned to appreciate gifts as a form of love his whole life.

Have you and H had a conversation about accepting or not accepting her gifts?

My H has read, SWOE, and attends T with me (my mom is uBPD).  I gotta say these have been "key" to him accepting what I have to say about my mom, because he hears a professional validating me.  It's not just me saying certain things, it's a professional saying them.  

You, as the DIL, are in my H's position.  I fully accept my mom's BPD and have worked hard to differentiate myself from her.  It sounds like your H is NC with his mom.  But it also sounds like he's still somewhat enmeshed if he still equates gifts with love, and isn't ready to refuse her gifts.

It's not the same, but years ago (25 yrs to be exact), we gratefully declined a $10,000 gift from my mom for a down payment on a house (we wanted to earn our house on our own hard work).  It was dramatic. She took it as personal rejection at the time.  She got over it.  It was one of the best decisions we ever made, and looking back at it, that decision was the fork in the path for beginning my self-differentiation from her.  It came up in my T session today, and T said "can you imagine the consequence if you had accepted the gift. In the short term, it would have been easier, but in the long term, it would have caused so much more drama - attached strings etc".  

Would it be easier to accept "age appropriate" gifts?  Could H help by making acceptable gift suggestions?  Maybe that wouldn't work for a variety of reasons.  Just brainstorming.

[MamaLlamaDrama]

Hi  Methuen! Your post was extremely helpful thank you. I said the same thing about the dollhouse as my daughter tried to climb into it.
The current package did not have to be signed for. Though I wish it would have. My husband was out of town and I was at work and we could just have never gone to pick it up.

It sounds like your H is NC with his mom.  But it also sounds like he's still somewhat enmeshed if he still equates gifts with love, and isn't ready to refuse her gifts.

This was really interesting to read. I find that I'm so lucky because he doesn't try to defend his mom a lot. He understands she's sick. But you're totally right. He still equates gifts to love. We had therapy together on Thursday where we once again discussed how to handle gifts. He is in no way ok with returning them unopened to his parents. In T we started talking about what we're going to do with this expanding pile of gifts in our basement. I asked if in 4 months we could give the American Girl doll away, and he said no that it's too soon. Him saying that really hit me. I can't imagine how lonely it must feel to have your mother's love tied into gifts that your wife doesn't want in her home. I really feel for him. However, I was highly uncomfortable with accepting gifts and not speaking to them. I was very uncomfortable with the thought of him letting FIL know that we are moving without mentioning the gift. We were expecting FIL to reach out to H about the stuffed turtle and he did Friday evening.
He said something along the lines of " I hope you're doing well. I know this is out of the blue but I wondered if you had gotten the present we sent for (daughter)."
My husband immediately got anxious and responded a pretty lenghthy text back. Basically saying that “no it’s not out of the blue. I’ve been expecting this text. It’s very hurtful that you only text me when mom tells you too. I’d like to have a relationship with you. I miss just talking about stupid stuff and baseball. Before this I was planning on texting you to let you know that we’re moving. But I also think this is a good opportunity to talk about gifts. I’d appreciate it if you’d let me know what you’re wanting to get (daughter). The turtle isn’t a big deal. She already has a little one. But with other larger gifts I’d appreciate you checking first because there are gifts we’d like to get her being her parents. I’m not ready to talk to mom so if gifts need to be acknowledged please don’t feel the need to send them. “
Even though he feels guilty getting rid of the gifts. He'd rather not get them either.
His father responded fairly defensively. Saying something along the lines of " yes your mother did ask me too but we wanted to make sure the package wasn't stolen from your porch. Sorry we didn't ask but we thought (daughter) would like the present. I would also like to talk baseball with you"
And my husband didn't respond. I think he should. Just to try to have a conversation with his dad that isn't about his mom. But he hasn't yet.
His mom's birthday is a week after we move and he wants to send he a birthday card. He's not comfortable totally ignoring her birthday but doesn't want to text or call. I'm concerned because I don't want our new address used as the return address but I know they'll get our address at some point anyway so I'm trying to not dwell on that.

[MamaLlamaDrama]

Sorry I also want to reply to this comment too. I kind of went off and forgot.

Would it be easier to accept "age appropriate" gifts?  Could H help by making acceptable gift suggestions?  Maybe that wouldn't work for a variety of reasons.  Just brainstorming.

Our plan is to send a mass text to his whole family with gift ideas ( like an amazon shopping list) before birthdays and Christmas. Hoping that will help. That will cause tension as well because she'll want to get the most extravagant/ expensive thing and will not like being told what to do. This is the best plan we can think of until he's more comfortable with not accepting gifts at all.

[Methuen]

I thought the text your H sent his dad was good.  It just stated facts, kept the emotion out, and set a boundary.  I liked it.

" yes your mother did ask me too but we wanted to make sure the package wasn't stolen from your porch. Sorry we didn't ask but we thought (daughter) would like the present. I would also like to talk baseball with you"

This actually made me laugh, because it sounded so much like something BPD mother would say, but then have FIL text on his phone. Always an answer, some twisted logic that serves to meet their emotional need, but never any recognition of H's points being made, or validation of what H said in his initial text.  i.e. complete denial of your concern.

And my husband didn't respond. I think he should.

I actually agree with H here.  Breathe and give it a bit of time and separation.  Here's why I think that:  I used to be "trained" to answer my mom's texts like Pavlov's dogs salivated to the bell.  I don't do that anymore.  Some of her texts I give a few hours or even answer the next day.  Some of them I don't respond to at all.  Some of them I answer immediately depending on the situation.  This is actually something that was recommended by my T.  By breathing and not reacting immediately to a text from uBPD mom, it gives me time to relax, think, and reply thoughtfully and non-reactively (i.e. non emotionally).  Most importantly, it means I don't get drawn into any drama, and I don't have any regrets after hitting the "send" button.  I think your main point was that you are encouraging H to text his dad about non-family things such as baseball, just to strengthen their father-son connection.  That may be possible, but it also might not work if FIL is enmeshed with MIL, and she is always present when the texts come in on his phone.  Nevertheless, it's really wonderful that you are supportive and encouraging him to maintain a relationship with his dad on "neutral" topics.

Our plan is to send a mass text to his whole family with gift ideas ( like an amazon shopping list) before birthdays and Christmas.

If this works for your family, that's really cool.  Every family has their own family culture.  In my family, if one of us sent out a text like that, everyone else would be thinking "What?  They expect me to buy a gift for every B-Day and Christmas?"  We've had a historic tradition of sending cards, but many don't even do that any more as everybody's families have grown and units now have their own sets of descendants.  A text like that would be quite a shock for us, but in your family, members may find it super helpful, which is great.  

That will cause tension as well because she'll want to get the most extravagant/ expensive thing and will not like being told what to do.

My uBPD mom has definite control issues.  It has also been suggested to me she has ODD (oppositional defiance disorder).  I could be wrong, but I think most BPD's probably have control issues.  By you sending out the list, she may perceive it as you taking control of what she can/can't buy her grandchild, and she may resist that.  I know my mom would Perhaps another approach could be asking her to share her ideas, and then you get to pick one (if you can), or modify an idea of hers, so she still feels she has some control...if that makes any sense?  Again, each family is unique, and it can be a bit of trial and error to figure out what works with a BPD mom or MIL.  

Is she crafty? sewer or knitter type?  If she was, you could encourage home made gifts, which are "personal", which could also be kept as family "keepsakes" to be passed through to the next generation (make her feel important?).  Maybe I'm grasping at straws...

Just a few random thoughts, which may not necessarily be helpful to you.  Apologizing in advance if they're not.

Unsolicited and inappropriate gifts can be a tricky and touchy business.  Especially if gifts from mom are still important to H, and he isn't in a place where he is ready to deal with the manipulative aspect of them, because he still equates them with love.
 

[MamaLlamaDrama]

Hi Methuen,
Your thoughts are definitely helpful so thank you very much for taking the time to share them. I have T tonight so I'm hoping to get some clarity on a few things and maybe I'll check back after that.
I'm pretty uncomfortable with giving his family a list of things we'd want for our daughter. They're a gift giving family. We spend hundreds of dollars getting every individual adult a gift for Christmas and birthdays every year. I think giving them a list gives them permission to buy gifts and that's difficult when that's not what I want. My husband is uncomfortable with not accepting gifts so at the moment this seemed like the best solution.

Is she crafty? sewer or knitter type?  If she was, you could encourage home made gifts, which are "personal", which could also be kept as family "keepsakes" to be passed through to the next generation (make her feel important?).  Maybe I'm grasping at straws...

Just a few random thoughts, which may not necessarily be helpful to you.  Apologizing in advance if they're not.

This made me laugh. she is definitely not crafty. My husband stated that he wished they would check with him on big gifts. I'm curious to see how this plays out and if we should just leave it at this for the time being. Her birthday isn't until October and so much can happen in that time. I'm sure that if FIL told MIL about this request that it was not received well. I'm sure her reaction was something along the lines of "Well I can't do anything!"
And I guess to be fair she wouldn't be totally wrong about that.
Thanks so much for your continued help.

[Methuen]

This made me laugh. she is definitely not crafty.

Hilarious!  I can actually hear you laughing MLD.  It was a shot in the dark.  I'm glad it gave you a laugh