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Skills we were never taught
98
A 3 Minute Lesson
on Ending Conflict
Communication Skills-
Don't Be Invalidating
Listen with Empathy -
A Powerful Life Skill
Setting Boundaries
and Setting Limits
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Author Topic: Does no contact reinforce the false belief that I dont actually care?  (Read 397 times)
GeorgeGlass

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Broken up
Posts: 4


« on: March 15, 2020, 07:15:30 AM »

Hi all,
Got a problem... broke up with my partner of 1 year 3 months ago.  She reached out 1 month ago and we rekindled. She had moved back in for 2 weeks and it all went pear shaped again... same issues...

SHE has gone no contact with me presently... She did the first time too...

I genuinely love this woman, am willing to do the (really) hard yards to be with her as she recovers and gets good therapy... worry that going no-contact will actually reinforce the belief that I do not care - inviting her to join me to the list of exes.

It is not negotiable... I want this relationship, and spell out why in the second message below.

Here are two recent communications from me for context...

************************************************************************************************
$@#%%,

I do love you… I want a healthy relationship with you.

I really do believe that if we address the issues that cloud us that we can have a beautiful and productive environment that allows us both to grow and thrive.

I want this to work… believe it can work… believe it is totally worth it.
I want to go to this Psychologist with you. 

This is a strange love letter…. But it IS – so here goes…



Boundaries….

$@#%% I am sorry for when I interpret your call for space as a rejection of me.  It is difficult sometimes for me to spot the difference as they look so similar and I have had both from you.

I respect your call for space yesterday. I am sorry I pushed on that boundary.

I have had some time to think about my boundaries… to put them clearly and lay out what is OK and what is not for me.  I appreciate your putting of boundaries, but have often not felt safe enough to put mine.  Here are some.


Regarding inappropriate interaction with children.

I am tired of this issue being attached to me.  It has NEVER been a part of my life in reality or allegation.

I have never had inappropriate thoughts regarding children and have never had any allegations put to me ever I’ve been inappropriate with children.  I have never acted in a sexualised way with children – EVER.

The stain that hangs around with regard to me being inappropriate have only ever started in the last two years and all seem to have a single source.   I am not being a victim here – it is just a fact.

I was never barred from teaching scripture, ever. The parents that know me have no issues with their children being here.  Prior to 2 years ago I was the preferred babysitter for our family as well as Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post)#$%^ and a while ago even the &^%$. If I was weird towards young people why did it only surface two years ago?

I did accept what you had to say about back scratches at bedtime and did change that, same with lying around on the lounge, however there was never any sexualisation of anything. I find the whole topic to be distasteful and unhelpful.

In $%^&*(&^% ‘notice of risk’ lodgement for court which was the very first document that had to be lodged in court I was listed as being many things – no evidence was required at all, she could say anything – but never was there any reference to anything sexual. This document was the perfect opportunity to put in a mention or implication of inappropriate interaction with children and yet it was not there.

I asked my father point-blank if they had ever been any rumour or concern or anything from anyone he had ever heard of with regard to me being inappropriate with children. He said no.

I am willing for you to read the notice of risk documents from $%^&*(&^% or call dad (023456789) but frankly never want to have this topic again. It is not a part of my life nor do I wish to make it one.

This is a firm boundary.





With regard to game-playing.

It bugs me that there is a suspicion that everything that I do is part of the game when I tell you the game that I want to play is to do the very best that I can.

If I do something nice for you it is because I want to do something nice for you if I say something nice because I want to say something nice. I just don’t operate in a mode that tries to gain advantage in one thing to influence another.

I have been exposed to that kind of behaviour before and find it disgusting. It is not me it never has been me and never will be me. Please stop interpreting everything that I do through the filter of a manipulator and start seeing what I do for what it is. This interpretation of my actions causes me great hurt because as I bring you my best it is interpreted as me bringing you something which is just for me.

I did once say the words “I am entirely selfish and everything that I do is ultimately for my own gain”, this was a reference to an article that I read where in a philosopher said that ultimately everything that any of us ever do is motivated at root cause by selfish motivation.   It is an interesting thought experiment – and I suspect ultimately true for all people always.  Me no more though that you or anyone else.

It does not leave room for altruism or genuine kindness or sacrifice. I like to believe that there is such a thing as sacrifice that there is such a thing as altruism and I aspire to these things and regularly put myself last for the benefit of other people. This is one part I of me value and will protecting.

Interpretation of me, holding me to that thought experiment is not OK.  At times I am selfish – hopefully I am characterised by being selfless. Interpretation of my actions through that lens is not ok.

This is a firm boundary





With regard to parenting and in particular discipline, consequences, resolution

I acknowledge that we are quite different in our parenting styles.  I do admire many of the things you say with regard to parenting – and acknowledge that I do not always get it right.

I do forgive more easily than you, and I don’t think that this is necessarily a bad thing.

Ultimately – I am a valid parent – willing to take on constructive criticism but unwilling to be invalidated in my parenthood

This is a firm boundary.




With regard to believing.

It has long been a problem of mine that I speak the truth as I see it. I tell you exactly how I feel or how I think something happened and yet I feel that you do not except my words as being genuine.

With regard to lying. $@#%%, a lie is when a person seeks to deceive another by saying something they know is not true. This is different to an error where a person says something which is not true but there is no intent to deceive.

When I told you that I got the car parts from Wyong when in fact I have got the parts from Charmhaven there was no intent to deceive whatsoever and so this was not a lie, it was an error.

A lie is when there is intent and that is a function of character; and error is a function of inaccurate recall.

The assignment of error to a character trait is unfair and unloving as never does a true error have intent to harm. That is not to say that it is not important to be accurate but only to draw a firm line between error and deceit.

This is a firm boundary




With regard to calling me a narcissist or saying on a regular basis that I have no empathy or that I do not have insight or that I do not have intuition

I feel that these statements are untrue and unkind judgements on me. 

I am deeply affected by the happiness and also the sadness of other people and I’m able to see things from their point of view clearly. That is the definition of empathy. If I have empathy then I do not have narcissism, although all of us always have narcissistic elements as this is a key part of being human and is healthy.

The laying of good boundaries is basically a narcissistic trait and yet it is healthy.

With regard to intuition, I do see many things before they happen, do have insight into things and understand words that were not spoken and things which are not seen. You do not need to accept this nor do you need to reject this.

I am not okay with you telling me on a regular basis your views about my limitations. I accept your view on these things may vary from mine but you must not force your view as either reality or demand that I take it as my own.

This is a firm boundary




With regard to the similarities between interaction with my children and you

When I tell my child I love them it is totally different to when I tell you I love you if I hold my child’s hand it is totally different to how I hold your hand.  Same action – different everything else.

My relationship with you is romantic and passionate and sensual. My relationship with my children is a dad that loves his kids. There is a world of difference here and even if you cannot understand that, it is the way it is.

These are different.  I understand from your past that this is a difficult area for you – and so I try to mark the differences as much as possible.  I get us chocolate in the car – but none for the kids… I no longer sit and hold my kids hands watching TV.  There is nothing wrong with these things – but out of respect for you I do not do them.

Saying that my relationship with you is the same as my relationship with the kids is not OK.

This is a firm Boundary



With regard to a enmeshment with you

We often and clearly have different view points; we have varying views on the way to the universe is structured, the way people think, the best ideas in resolution to a situation and so many other things.

We are two people, similar in our amazement at the ‘everything’, but so very different in the way we are made up. I celebrate our differences and admire you for who you are but recognise that you are quite different to me and I am quite different to you.

With regard to insecure attachment, I know that my anxiety brings out the very worst in me, when I feel like I am losing or at risk of losing the person that I love with all my heart I do feel great anxiety. This makes me feel and act in a very needy way which is not healthy and I recognise that.

When I feel like you do not have your hand on the door to leave I feel secure in our relationship and I do not have activities that are driven by that anxiety. I like that mode much better, I know it is much better for you too.

I do not believe that we are enmeshed…


************************************************************************************************
Another message
************************************************************************************************




So why do I bother pursuing you?

Why do I not just walk away?

How could you know that when I say I will not give up that it is not just a gesture of words?

There are two main reasons.

Number one.
I genuinely enjoy your company, I love the glint of sunlight in your eyes and your cheeky smile. I love gardening with you, walking with you, living with you, waking with you and going to sleep snuggled with you. I love watching the world and the universe with you discovering new things exploring and enjoying with you. I enjoy the connection between us that is spiritual as well as emotional and sexual. I enjoy watching you grow. I am inspired by you.

You are a beautiful person to be around and I enjoy that very much.


Number two.
It is almost as if there are two parts within you. I know that sounds crazy but I will explain.
I see and know, deeply love and have a relationship with inner core of $@#%%. She is hopeful, kind and patient, forgiving, accepting and thoughtful. She is also afraid and hurt but she longs for the day she can stop fearing and stop hurting.

There is another part of $@#%% that is also afraid but doubtful instead of hopeful suspicious instead of accepting. She sees shadows and draws conclusions and fights with fury to protect the inner core $@#%% from more hurt. Where there is a possibility of hurt or rejection or abandonment this part of $@#%% will hurt first, reject first, abandoned first so that the inner core not be hurt more.
I totally understand why the second part of you exists. I do not hate it, and although it has served its purpose to protect you for a long time now it shuts you away from real intimacy and deep love.  It no longer serves you.

Increasingly there is conflict between the inner part and the protecting part as the inner part hurts for the choices the protecting part is making.

How could I neglect or walk away, how could I ignore or abandon that inner part?

I cannot walk away, cannot abandon you $@#%% – to do so would be me being less than who I am.

The core of you that I love is that very core that I speak of. When I say that I will not give up on you, I am saying I will not give up on the part of you that does not want to give up.

The protecting part is valuable and I will not ignore it nor dismiss her. I speak to her with true respect and steady voice and say that although I am miles from perfect and although I have hurt people, even you; that I will love you, protect you and fight for you every day of my life.  I have made, and am bound to make mistakes – for them I am truly sorry, but I am devoted to loving you in your entirety

One day your inner core and protector, my inner core and my protector will sit together and hold hands in peace as we acknowledge that we fight together for each other and for us collectively. That it is safe in our circle. We will celebrate that while we are whole on our own it is so much richer to walk life with someone that loves our heart.  And I truly love your heart $@#%%.

Now you know why I will not give up on you…

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once removed
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 12719



« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2020, 01:29:17 AM »

hi GeorgeGlass, and Welcome

i can appreciate the worry that if you dont follow up, you will send the message that you dont care. when my ex broke up with me, i wondered if on some level, she was testing me to step it up.

generally speaking, chasing or over pursuing are not attractive to the opposite sex. if someone is really playing a sort of game, where they want you to pursue them, they will toss some bread crumbs.

before we dive into best ways to navigate this, though...

1. what caused her to cut you off? did she give any explanation, or just drop all contact?

2. do i have it right that you sent the communications in your OP after she dropped all contact?
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     and I think it's gonna be all right; yeah; the worst is over now; the mornin' sun is shinin' like a red rubber ball…
GeorgeGlass

Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Broken up
Posts: 4


« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2020, 11:27:00 AM »

Hi Once Removed - Thank you for your welcome  Smiling (click to insert in post)

The bigger reason for the breakup was based around the difference between the 'me' she thinks I was portraying when we got together and the 'me' she perceived at the time of the breakup.  She also goes on constantly about me not respecting her boundaries - but she violates mine constantly... I have never had the window to lay out what my defined boundaries are - but as you can see - they are kind of 'standard' and shouldn't have to be put out like this... no?

Problem is that my covert NPD ex (wife of 15 years) rang my partner on multiple occasions and filled every bit of insecurity with significant doubt.  Things like 'He never forgets anything - if he ever says he does not recall - it is a lie' and 'He is very very clever with his words - but they are just a manipulative tool to get you to respond how he wants - if he ever uses nice words, he is not genuine, he is trying to con you'.  My partner trusted my exes words more than mine.  My ex, as it turns out is able to convey doubt wrapped up in 'concern' and enlist even family members of mine... takes forever to come good.

Unfortunately, due to the 'poison', everything I do is seen through the filter of being manipulative/untrustworthy and thus every life/family event that COULD be seen as one of those things IS.

I suffer pretty high anxiety... and this seems to be the closing of the loop for a viscous cycle.  She reacts to a 'shadow', I fret and look like I am trying to dodge when I am just talking straight.

The 'that moment' reason is that I told my partner that my ex thought one of my children was enmeshed with me... she looked it up and found it referred to as 'emotional incest' which had predictable results.

She demanded that I apologise to my kid for being intentionally abusing him - which caused HIM great pain.  I was uneasy to do so as I never felt there was enmeshment.

She saw my discomfort as dodging and not owning my issues - and left.

Sadly - ironically - I went to my son's appointment the next day with his psychologist and laid it all out for him. He said that there was 'no chance' of enmeshment...  So it was all for nothing, but I suspect that any topic would have done it and this was just a handy one.

She left - blocked me too.

I sent these messages after 3 or 4 days via email.

last message I got back reads... (note the reference to 'making anything sound good' was when I was helping her with her resume for a job...)

*********************
We all have a path to walk whilst I had wished you would join me it seems it's to late for your words..your actions speak louder volumes then your carefully put words!  As you told me you can make anything sound good and I give credit where credit is due.. My lord you do.
That self image you hold onto I hope you can actually obtain one day, I truly do.
My heart weeps for a man you tried to show to keep me that just doesn't actually exist..
You almost fooled me..
Clever but not intelligent..
Should have never underestimated me.

Anyways..
I am back to being me.. The best version I can be when I don't have to be in a state of freeze,  flight or fight...! 
I wish you all the best it doesn't serve me still speaking of things and people from my past.. One will never evolve..

Use that eye.. The third one..
Have that relationship with yourself and the divine..  There is hope yet but no whilst you still choose not to live from spirit and instead choose ego..

Goodbye
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once removed
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 12719



« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2020, 03:05:52 AM »

George,

your goal is to reconcile the relationship, and we will support you in that effort.

part of supporting you in that effort is being a good sounding board, and speaking to you in realistic, sober terms.

your ex got to your recent lover. it sounds like your recent lover took a lot of what she said seriously.

im not sure how big of an impact that had overall, and by that i mean, if that had never happened, i suspect there would likely be problems between the two of you just as well.

Excerpt
I fret and look like I am trying to dodge when I am just talking straight.

it sounds like you are going hard on the defensive against any and all accusations. i wouldnt. it can backfire sometimes, and just make you look guilty. its like the age old adage, answering the question "have you stopped beating your wife".

youre asking her nicely to "please dont bring up me beating my wife, and by the way, i didnt really beat my wife" under the guise of boundaries.

there are no doubt incompatibility issues at play. she questions your parenting and your relationship to your child, thats a big one. blending a family is hard under the best of circumstances.

and if the relationship has been broken up for three months, and this is where its at, you face an uphill battle trying to reconcile. not impossible, mind you, but really uphill.

the best thing you can do is stop sending messages about pursuing her, or laying down boundaries, or relitigating issues from the relationship. frankly, i think the best thing you can do is not to initiate another message to her. pursuing is not working, and at this point, will not work. it will reinforce her distrust.

it may not be what you want to hear, but with your goal of reconciling the relationship in mind, the best thing you can do is give this a lot of space, wait for the ice to thaw, and let her pick it back up on her terms.

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