How to communicate for divorce

[Hummingbird88]

Hi,
 I'm going through a divorce with my ex-wife. I'm a lesbian. Anyway, she has been so challenging to deal with...still so angry with me (been separated over a year), blaming me for things, calling me all sorts of names. I don't know how to respond-tried everything in the book and she still does it. HELP!

[ForeverDad]

Others will surely add their thoughts soon, but I thought I'd start with a couple pointers.  We reasonably normal folks have found that our empathy and logic doesn't work with people who live in their own perceptions of reality.  Our impulse is to JADE (justify, argue, defend, explain) but it is rejected, sabotaged and even obstructed.  What is more effective is BIFF (brief, informative, friendly, firm) and similar approaches.

You will find these communication skills explained over in our info board here.  (Browse 1.16, 1.17, 2.02, 2.03, etc)
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=36.0

In addition, you will need strong boundaries and resist the urges to relax them.  The problem is that relaxing boundaries can be perceived as rewarding and inviting more boundary violations.  What are boundaries?  You already know you can't force the ex to do or not do anything.  The insight is that boundaries are for you.  How so?  Here's a simple example:  "If you do or don't do ___ then I will do or not do ___."  What you are doing is teaching a foreign concept to most acting-out disordered persons, consequences.  Of course, setting and maintaining strong boundaries is not an easy nor quick task.

Your Ex is an adult and so are you.  Thus, it is okay for you to set your boundaries and okay for her to face her consequences.

Marriages are also deeply emotional relationships.  So ending such relationships is sadly very emotionally messy.  One perspective that will help you is to set aside your emotional hurts (counseling and peer support is so helpful) and as much as possible deal with this as a variation of a business venture that failed and unwind it without overwhelming emotional FOG (fear, obligation, guilt).

None of us can do that to the fullest extent.  But ponder how your lawyer does it.  Does your lawyer take home your case and let it harm his/her after hours life with family and friends?  So when you have to deal with these issues, deal with them.  Then Let Go and Move On as best you can.  Your life does not stop, it goes on.  After all, recovery is a process and not an event.

[MeandThee29]

It's up to you, but I tried email only. Didn't help.

Some months in, I had my attorney write the agreement with what we had agreed to and take over all communications. It was expensive, but I'm convinced that it never would have settled otherwise. There had to be neutral parties involved and a focus on what was legal. Sometimes in these divorces, they believe that what they want has to be right, even contrary to the law and common decency. My attorney told me he was determined to get it settled by a certain date after months of mess, and he did it. I am happy with the terms.

I was spent out when it was final, so I agreed to do some close-out work directly with him. Sigh. Even the legal side handled by the lawyers was disordered. So expect the same-old-same-old to the bitter end.

[GaGrl]

Where are you in the divorce? Are you still working through a property settlement? Child custody? Are you attempting a no-fault of mediated divorce, or do you each have lawyers working through a high-conflict divorce?

What is your biggest concern right now?

[Hummingbird88]

Hi,
 Thank you to those who responded. It's all very helpful. We fortunately don't have kids or own anything together, which makes the divorce easier. However she owes me $14,000 and is slowly paying me back ($200/month). She has a big retirement that she is drawing on to live while she tries to get on disability. We are in contact about these payments regularly. She sometimes can't pay them, I want her to increase them to get it over with, and she feels invalidated by me around her experience. She lost her job because she wasn't working her full hours, smokes a lot of pot and feels strongly that she's suffering greatly. I'm not sure if she really is in that much pain or if it's an excuse to get on disability and dive into her addiction, which she has admitted to having. I can't wait to no longer be in "relationship/contact" with her and I feel that the money she owes me is a way of continuing a connection that is upsetting, painful and difficult for me. Thanks for all your help and support through this. I wish I had responded to the signs I saw early on and not married her in the first place.

[GaGrl]

Do you have a settlement agreement yet?

If not, it sounds like payment of the remainder of the debt needs to be written not the settlement agreement in a way that gives you a way to hold her accountable if she doesn't pay. Something like... "Party A agreed to pay Party B the amount of $XXXXX  representing outstanding debt from the loan made to Party A on (date). Payments will be made monthly in the amount of $XXX, due on the first day of each month, with The entire loan being paid by (date). If Party A is later than the tenth of the month making payment, a late fee of $XX will be imposed. If three consecutive payments are missed, the entire balance of the loan becomes due as a balloon payment."

This means if she continues to waffle on the loan, you can call it in, and she would need to take a loan or early withdrawal from her retirement funds to pay you a lump sum.

Then, all you need to say when she tries to have a conversation about not paying is that you are following the court order and you're sure she can figure it out.

[livednlearned]

She won't have the same capacity as you to grieve and move on, so (fortunately and unfortunately) the solution will be in your hands.

Gagrl's suggestion is great for the logistics of structuring the repayment.

For the emotional cost of managing the loan, how do you feel about getting a neutral third-party involved?

I found either I paid for something with emotional currency or I paid for it with money. Over time, as things dragged on, it just wasn't worth it to put myself back in the fire. For a lot of us, by the time we leave we are d. o. n. e. There isn't anything left.

Sometimes I was lucky and could find a neutral third party willing to stand in for me for free. Often their neutral view and dispassionate perspective neutralized both sides.

But for the most part I sought out solutions that had some cost (lawyer, parenting coordinator, real estate attorney, etc) so I didn't feel like the relationship was still renting space in my head.

[Panda39]

It's up to you, but I tried email only. Didn't help.

My partner had a different experience and found "email only" helpful.

It slows down the interaction so you can think first before responding (no knee jerk reactions that up the drama)
It can take some of the emotion out of the interaction
Only respond to what is pertinent (the loan)
Don't respond to hummingbird bashing (don't JADE - Justify Argue Defend Explain) it leads to more arguing. Don't take the bait
When you respond use BIFF (Brief Informative Friendly Firm) ie: "Thank you for your email, I'm sorry XYZ is going on however, I do still expect the loan payment on xx/xx/xxxx thank you."   If you don't receive the payment document it so you can show the court that she is inconsistent in repayment.
Feelings = Facts to a person with BPD.  My partner's wife actually told the court that the kids heard my partner yelling at her about something.  He pointed out the conversation was via email and the kids could not have possibly heard any thing.

I would also ask you if the money is worth the on-going conflict?  There is no right or wrong answer only what works best for you.

Panda39

[bengaltropicat]

Recognize that most people, including divorce attorneys, will respond to you with platitudes about how difficult it is to deal with your soon to be ex. That is because they hear the same complaints every day.  If your soon to be ex is a bpd you are dealing with a whole different animal. You need to read and follow Billy Eddy, he specializes in high conflict divorce and understands what you are up against.  He's written several books, my fav is the one titled  high conflict divorce.  BPD's are insidious, they have the innate ability to destroy you and make you look like you are the crazy one.  The only way to deal with them is to out smart them.  I turned the tables on my ex during the divorce process, it is not something I am proud about but it got me out and to a safe place.  I am not by nature a manipulative person but I had to protect myself and my children and my ex is a violent and dangerous man.  Read Bill Eddy and follow his advice.  He gets it.
 

[ForeverDad]

Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder by William Eddy and Randi Kreger is one of our most essential guides and handbooks.