Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
June 16, 2024, 01:17:54 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Survey: How do you compare?
Adult Children Sensitivity
67% are highly sensitive
Romantic Break-ups
73% have five or more recycles
Physical Hitting
66% of members were hit
Depression Test
61% of members are moderate-severe
108
Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: How to reconcile "protective dishonesty"  (Read 1545 times)
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2020, 09:49:08 AM »


I certainly don't want to give the idea that "understanding background" is of  little value.  I think the greatest value in understanding background is to understand that you (nons) didn't cause this.  Next value is understanding that there is little chance of directly "getting them help" or "getting them to see the light".

Then value in seeing how we "play into" or "exacerbate" this (very very different than causation)

"Directly getting help":  There is a reason why stories of BPDs seeing the light.."getting help" and "getting better" are so rare...

My wife has been part of a crisis intervention team in her school.  Get's trained about the amygdala and lots of strategies to "regulate emotions" or "return people to baseline".

Many times in our arguments (talks..whatever) she will reference a strategy she learned and attempt it.

This is "safe" because she learned this without it "being about her" or "her being wrong".


Regarding embellished stories or stories with a "flair".  

I would chuckle when asked about a facet and respond..."My husband is a much better story teller than me.."

Regarding pressure on kids and "suggestions":  When you hubby states his truth...I think you should consider stating yours...succintly or perhaps engage your kid in their truth.  (many times parenting is about listening...or at least listening first)

hubby: "Blah blah blah school xyz is the best."  

you:  "Johnny...what schools are you considering?"  (note the plural in schools)

you:  "It's important to get a school that matches the student.  Johnny..how do you see that happening for you?"

Do you get the vibe here?

Regarding taking credit:   I would come up with a good reason...really good reason, before trying to "correct" this.

Likely a great place for "and also"..

For instance:  We home schooled for a while.  Worked out really great for us for a while.  Then we moved to a place where we were excited about schools, so we started sending our kids to public school.  Luckily, since then we've liked the schools.

From time to time my wife "takes credit" for our oldest and "blames" the relative low achievement of others on public school.

Other times her comments are more measured.

I can't imagine any benefit coming from "knocking down" her view, yet that doesn't mean I can't "and also" (build up other things, without knocking her down)

Bottom line on lots of this stuff:  Many people with PDs try to stay dichotomous.  Right/wrong...yes/no...good/bad.  It's soo easy to get caught up in that.  

Try to stay "win win".  "And also" can really help get you there.

Best,

FF


you "Johny...we're excited about your future and bel


Logged

Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10643



« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2020, 11:34:33 AM »

Your H may not have a solid sense of self. My mother doesn't - so she builds her sense of self up by taking on the accomplishments of others. Your H is reaffirming himself. "my kid got into Brown, I must be OK"

So why would anyone not go to Brown if they got in? I know several students who made the choice to not get into debt for undergrad due to cost, or goals for professional school later and wanting to save their funds for that. I know of kids with PhD's who started at junior college to save money, kids who turned down an Ivy league school to save money, attended a state college,  who went on to professional schools. I also know kids who decided college wasn't for them and did other things, and are fine.

When we attend family get togethers, we get to hear about the "grandkids" and their colleges. One of them attended a state college and I felt so sorry for this child because they spoke about it as if it was a failure. The college is actually a top school for the child's career interest, but they didn't acknowlege that and this just hurt the child's self esteem.

So back to your H- yes, he may not have good boundaries about this, but so much of your posts are about him, what he says, what he does. But when it comes to boundaries, this is about you. You are not your H. He can say or think what he wants. It may bother you, but you can't change him. You can only work on yourself. Your job is to protect yourself and your kids from this kind of thing. Their reason to be here isn't for your H to build himself up with. And whether or not they attend junior college, Brown, or no college doesn't define their self worth. They need to be sure of that.

Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2020, 11:49:53 AM »


Funny story about why kids do things...and parents (me) going along with their version.

When it was time for grad school my oldest had an offer in hand to be a teaching assistant at the school he was attending.  Basically free school and they would pay him to teach.

He also applied to other schools and Duke flew him out and wined and dined him, trying to get him to go over there.  A couple of phone calls with him where he seemed very interested.

Hmmm...minor detail I left out.  He had a long term girlfriend that was a couple years behind him in school...silly me leaving that out.

Anyway...he calls one day and says "Dad...you know I think staying here is going to be the best fit for my schooling."

I said.."That sounds like a great idea (insert kids name).  You know...the mountains really are nice there.  Such great scenery."

He says..."yeah...really nice scenery"

Well...They are now married. 

He graduated in December with masters, she is finishing up her bachelors (doing remote finals now) and they are both living in the city they have jobs in...in their first apartment.

So...you never know.  The "scenery" might influence some of your kids too...

Best,

FF
Logged

empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« Reply #33 on: May 05, 2020, 05:19:57 PM »

Ah...  the kids school and career plans...

My oldest, my son attended a highly competitive well-respected university and graduated with dual bachelor's degrees. He's currently working in software development at a "top-tier" well-known company. Needless to say, he's doing very well and advancing in his career at this point. He and DIL are thinking about buying a house in the near-ish future.

Well, h keeps hinting that son will eventually pursue his master's degree in seminary. (religion is kind of like his "family business") Son has no interest right now in doing that - he would like to get an MBA sometime, but his wife and child are the most pressing area for him. DIL thinks it's weird that h keeps hinting at this and kind of pushing it.

Ultimately, h is pushing because it would enhance his standing with his family of origin.
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2020, 05:54:50 PM »


OK...I guess this is an ok "hijack" because I'll try to tie this in to advice to UBPDhelp.

One of the "antidotes" to BPDish stuff is to stop "hinting".  Stay away from implicit and stick with explicit.  Even then, they'll twist things up about what "you really mean".

However..I think it's good real life advice.  For instance...the comment about the DIL thinking it's weird about all the "hints".

I've explicitly told my oldest that his highest "value" (strictly from a monetary sense) is if after about 5 years of computer engineering he gets an MBA.  That's because he comes across as "normal".  You can sit down and talk with him about sports, hunting..fishing...just about anything.

Many (perhaps most) guys in that field aren't that way...they are kinda off in their own computer world.

Anyway...if he can play just as well in the programming lab and the finance room (after MBA) he'd be a hot ticket item.  I also confirmed some of this with my fellow MBA colleagues.

Anyway...I also told him that life is often not just about chasing the $$ and that he'd know the right path when he got there.

So...no hints.  He got explicit advice and also heard that I "believed in him" regardless of the path he chose. 

So...to tie this in to the OP.  Her children need a "force" like this in their life to counterbalance some of the BPDish influences. 

If there ever is confusion over what to tell them...stick with telling them that you believe in them and their judgment.

Best,

FF
Logged

UBPDHelp
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 794



« Reply #35 on: May 06, 2020, 05:59:20 AM »

I certainly don't want to give the idea that "understanding background" is of  little value.  I think the greatest value in understanding background is to understand that you (nons) didn't cause this.  Next value is understanding that there is little chance of directly "getting them help" or "getting them to see the light".

Then value in seeing how we "play into" or "exacerbate" this (very very different than causation)

I get this. And totally agree. I am very much a quiet thinker trying to understand the why. It is hard to know if I/we can even know if the BPD “why” is what we suspect, probably in part because they don’t know why.

But, yes, for this I at least want to know what I did to “flip that switch” for him. I don’t do an actual thing I would change, but I might totally be open to changing how I do it or how I approach him with it.

One of my biggest issues right now is just having this all straight in my head. If this, then that. And then this changes, now what?

Excerpt
"Directly getting help":  There is a reason why stories of BPDs seeing the light.."getting help" and "getting better" are so rare...

My wife has been part of a crisis intervention team in her school.  Get's trained about the amygdala and lots of strategies to "regulate emotions" or "return people to baseline".

Many times in our arguments (talks..whatever) she will reference a strategy she learned and attempt it.

This is "safe" because she learned this without it "being about her" or "her being wrong".

Well, my H takes credit for everything, so if I told him, soon thereafter it would be his idea. Just kidding.

That’s a really great idea and your wife sounds like her true intent is positive.  So, do you feel that she just has a hard time around certain topics/emotions?  I know money/taxes has tripped her up before. And I know about your secret love child
Logged
UBPDHelp
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 794



« Reply #36 on: May 06, 2020, 06:03:51 AM »

I don’t know why, but it cut half my reply...trying again.

DELETED by me...figured out it didn’t like the emoji I used. Sorry.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2020, 06:08:55 AM by UBPDHelp » Logged
UBPDHelp
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 794



« Reply #37 on: May 06, 2020, 06:05:00 AM »

Rest of reply (I hope)...

DELETED by me...figured out it didn’t like the emoji I used. Sorry.
Logged
UBPDHelp
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 794



« Reply #38 on: May 06, 2020, 06:05:44 AM »

I certainly don't want to give the idea that "understanding background" is of  little value.  I think the greatest value in understanding background is to understand that you (nons) didn't cause this.  Next value is understanding that there is little chance of directly "getting them help" or "getting them to see the light".

Then value in seeing how we "play into" or "exacerbate" this (very very different than causation)

I get this. And totally agree. I am very much a quiet thinker trying to understand the why. It is hard to know if I/we can even know if the BPD “why” is what we suspect, probably in part because they don’t know why.

But, yes, for this I at least want to know what I did to “flip that switch” for him. I don’t do an actual thing I would change, but I might totally be open to changing how I do it or how I approach him with it.

One of my biggest issues right now is just having this all straight in my head. If this, then that. And then this changes, now what?

Excerpt
"Directly getting help":  There is a reason why stories of BPDs seeing the light.."getting help" and "getting better" are so rare...

My wife has been part of a crisis intervention team in her school.  Get's trained about the amygdala and lots of strategies to "regulate emotions" or "return people to baseline".

Many times in our arguments (talks..whatever) she will reference a strategy she learned and attempt it.

This is "safe" because she learned this without it "being about her" or "her being wrong".

Well, my H takes credit for everything, so if I told him, soon thereafter it would be his idea. Just kidding.

That’s a really great idea and your wife sounds like her true intent is positive.  So, do you feel that she just has a hard time around certain topics/emotions?  I know money/taxes has tripped her up before. And I know about your secret love child ...but identifiable trigger...remind me?

Interestingly, my H is a huge tv freak. He NEEDS this right now. It is akin to tv volume in that he puts on mindless tv for hours I believe to drown out his thoughts. He has some favorite reality shows and recently in one of them, one of the main characters is angry. Just says he doesn’t know why, but he’s just angry. We’ve watched for years and the guy definitely has some type of PD, not convinced it’s BPDish, more likely sociopath/NPD.  H was riveted and at attention. I made an off the cuff comment like, funny they’re all just figuring out he has a PD.  We both laughed, but truthfully I was trying to plant a seed that this is an actual thing.

In the last month, after his last episode, he told me there was something wrong with him. He felt it was more about freaking out about pandemic, but his intense reactions to situations requiring less intensity I believe makes his ability to deal with them and then other smaller issues almost impossible. Can you decipher my point? Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)


Excerpt
Regarding embellished stories or stories with a "flair".  

I would chuckle when asked about a facet and respond..."My husband is a much better story teller than me.."

This is so much better than my dumbstruck look and stumbling over my words.

Excerpt
Regarding pressure on kids and "suggestions":  When you hubby states his truth...I think you should consider stating yours...succintly or perhaps engage your kid in their truth.  (many times parenting is about listening...or at least listening first)

hubby: "Blah blah blah school xyz is the best."  

you:  "Johnny...what schools are you considering?"  (note the plural in schools)

you:  "It's important to get a school that matches the student.  Johnny..how do you see that happening for you?"

Do you get the vibe here?

Yes.  I do try to do this. Our oldest is able to speak their mind and doesn’t like me to support, mostly because H has an almost knee jerk reaction to disagree with me. I try to stay out of this unless asked.

Our middle is way more reserved and would rather stay away from him.  I’ve been trying to prevent bulldozing here but when the opportunity arises to let us all set that straight, kid 2 is too timid to say to dad.  Kid 2 gets there but on own terms and time.

The other two are still youngish and it’s more about ice cream and staying up late. Manageable.

Excerpt
Regarding taking credit:   I would come up with a good reason...really good reason, before trying to "correct" this.

Likely a great place for "and also"..

For instance:  We home schooled for a while.  Worked out really great for us for a while.  Then we moved to a place where we were excited about schools, so we started sending our kids to public school.  Luckily, since then we've liked the schools.

From time to time my wife "takes credit" for our oldest and "blames" the relative low achievement of others on public school.

Other times her comments are more measured.

I can't imagine any benefit coming from "knocking down" her view, yet that doesn't mean I can't "and also" (build up other things, without knocking her down)

Bottom line on lots of this stuff:  Many people with PDs try to stay dichotomous.  Right/wrong...yes/no...good/bad.  It's soo easy to get caught up in that.  

Try to stay "win win".  "And also" can really help get you there.

Interesting. I’ll have to think if this would work for us. Maybe in a lot of circumstances.

Here’s the stupid (I hate this word, btw, but unavoidable sometimes) sh!t (sorry, but I do enjoy profanity on occasion  Being cool (click to insert in post) he does. We made plans to celebrate a couple kid things. I ordered party supplies to use for them. H decided to take posed pictures of the kids who were celebrating. He said nothing to me, just did it. No biggie even though I would have liked to be part of it. Anyway, he didn’t know the party stuff came (wasn’t paying attention and we hold for a day or two and then wash it down, which I had already done). He sent pictures (hero dad. Okay). I went and grabbed one of the party items for the picture and gave it to him. He walked up to kid’s room and said, let’s take the pictures again because I got you this. Nope, he didn’t. I did. It’s not a big deal, I said nothing but this happens all the time. Some big, some small. Heaven forbid he doesn’t get credit.  He can relate literally everything to his great idea.

So, yes, I can just not correct it. But I do believe this reinforces his need more...that’s a big part of why it bothers me, but also his truth is further from the truth each time

Thanks FF.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2020, 06:16:37 AM by UBPDHelp » Logged
UBPDHelp
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 794



« Reply #39 on: May 06, 2020, 06:07:26 AM »

Del
Logged
Cat Familiar
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7488



« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2020, 11:48:37 AM »

Staff only This thread has reached its maximum length and is now locked. The conversation continues here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=344436.0
Logged

“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!