How to reconcile "protective dishonesty" part 5

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

This is a continuation of a previous thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=344514.30

I’ve done what I wanted today. Unfortunately a lot was getting organized and planning, but that does give me a sense of peace. I lay awake at night thinking where I should go. Do I ultimately buy a house (need a job and to pay off a couple things first)?  Do I rent for a year, which will be more expensive, but give me time, but also equates to probably another 8-10K of rent that could be down payment instead. Houses are more work, but HOA fees are high around here for condos. I think and can’t fall asleep and then kind of think I know what will be best. I wake up and wonder if I’m right. Ha!

Anyway, sorting out some of these details makes me feel more in control. I have two attorneys picked. Planning to speak with each virtually as soon as I can.

H has had better moments and we’ve had some teamwork with house issues. But then he just flies off the handle at the smallest thing. I’m annoying, will be all alone, no one likes me or would put up with me. Just mean.

The newest part is he is absolutely saying these things and then walking away. I was previously stating my boundary and walking away. Now he insults as he’s walking away. I don’t know what to do with that, if anything.

Any thoughts?  I don’t really want to chase, but feel he’s turning tables again.

Thanks all.  Did enjoy the sun and outside. Not all work.

[UBPDHelp]

This is a continuation of a previous thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=344514.30

I’ve done what I wanted today. Unfortunately a lot was getting organized and planning, but that does give me a sense of peace. I lay awake at night thinking where I should go. Do I ultimately buy a house (need a job and to pay off a couple things first)?  Do I rent for a year, which will be more expensive, but give me time, but also equates to probably another 8-10K of rent that could be down payment instead. Houses are more work, but HOA fees are high around here for condos. I think and can’t fall asleep and then kind of think I know what will be best. I wake up and wonder if I’m right. Ha!

Anyway, sorting out some of these details makes me feel more in control. I have two attorneys picked. Planning to speak with each virtually as soon as I can.

H has had better moments and we’ve had some teamwork with house issues. But then he just flies off the handle at the smallest thing. I’m annoying, will be all alone, no one likes me or would put up with me. Just mean.

The newest part is he is absolutely saying these things and then walking away. I was previously stating my boundary and walking away. Now he insults as he’s walking away. I don’t know what to do with that, if anything.

Any thoughts?  I don’t really want to chase, but feel he’s turning tables again.

Thanks all.  Did enjoy the sun and outside. Not all work.

[I Am Redeemed]

I would not chase him.

My thoughts are that he noticed you walking away after he insulted you and so now he is the one to walk away, not giving you the chance, putting himself back in the one up position "I'm in control because I am the one who ended the conversation".
 

[UBPDHelp]

I would not chase him.

My thoughts are that he noticed you walking away after he insulted you and so now he is the one to walk away, not giving you the chance, putting himself back in the one up position "I'm in control because I am the one who ended the conversation".
 

Thanks. I was thinking that, too.

But then since my last post we went along a windy path. It started as a small update and then conversation.  The conversation turned to family and he started disparaging mine on things his has done and worse. No names, just behavior. So, I tossed out a couple of behaviors, which were clearly his family. Just evening the playing field. I want to note that this was not a heated discussion. This was an “us against them” kind that he ultimately tilted to my family, I just tilted it back to more even. No names.

Then he starts with child custody and that I can decide what it will be and that he will pay me alimony and we’ll sell the house and I can take the profit. Whatever I want. We talked about keeping the kids together and sharing custody. I just said okay. I won’t keep them from you.  He wants one thing that will be a fight if I don’t agree. Otherwise he said he won’t fight me on anything. I will give him that one thing even though it’s so insulting, but truthfully I’m okay with it. More on that later.

No raging. No screaming or storming out. But he’s on Facebook texting away. I presume with his gf waiting in the wings. I don’t even care because I’d like to be rid of him. There is a chance he will just agree to this or close to it. I sit quiet now and feel free to move ahead elsewhere.

Any thoughts?  I believe as he’s seeing pandemic wrap up, he’s feeling emboldened.

I would appreciate any advice. Any. This is new.

I will say almost immediately after his announcement, his facial tics and clearing his throat started.

Thanks all...I sit quiet now.

The conversation just ended.

[GaGrl]

When you talk to a therapist, ask about Complex PTSD. When I reconnected with my DH (we had been teen crushes), he had been separated from his then-wife for 14 (!) years after 19 years married and living together. She had told him she would divorce if he ever wanted to, but he had never had a relationship that caused him to want that. After we were living together and then married, I learned the extent of what he had experienced, which was ongoing trauma over a long period of time -- Complex PTSD. I

His situation has been dealing with her constant and blatant infidelities beginning about 18 months into the marriage. Because he brought her to the U.S. , he felt a strong obligation to take care of her, so he overlooked a lot -- and his psyche took a hit. She was arrested on several occasions for violent behavior against her boyfriends (usually when he was deployed). He lost a command due to her flagrant affair with an enlisted man at one of his postings -- he almost divorced her that time. The FOG was so thick he cou ldn't find his way out. Finally, she left. But the damage with him was l ong-lasting.

You will need time and the love and support of people who care about you. There are many, including us.

[formflier]

Did I miss what the "one issue is"? 

Sorry to ask you to clarify but I can't seem to find it scanning.  That said..it's been quite a day here so I may have missed it.

Virtual hugs to you!   

Max out on self care!  Hang in there.

Best,

FF

[UBPDHelp]

When you talk to a therapist, ask about Complex PTSD. When I reconnected with my DH (we had been teen crushes), he had been separated from his then-wife for 14 (!) years after 19 years married and living together. She had told him she would divorce if he ever wanted to, but he had never had a relationship that caused him to want that. After we were living together and then married, I learned the extent of what he had experienced, which was ongoing trauma over a long period of time -- Complex PTSD. I

His situation has been dealing with her constant and blatant infidelities beginning about 18 months into the marriage. Because he brought her to the U.S. , he felt a strong obligation to take care of her, so he overlooked a lot -- and his psyche took a hit. She was arrested on several occasions for violent behavior against her boyfriends (usually when he was deployed). He lost a command due to her flagrant affair with an enlisted man at one of his postings -- he almost divorced her that time. The FOG was so thick he cou ldn't find his way out. Finally, she left. But the damage with him was l ong-lasting.

You will need time and the love and support of people who care about you. There are many, including us.

Hi GaGrl.  I feel this freedom that I no longer need to report or otherwise let him know what I’m doing. I’m not rushing into anything, we are still under stay at home orders and so not rushing while still stuck together.

But I feel okay to not hide contacting a lawyer. Not going to flaunt it but if he finds out, he’s the one who said I needed one. I can see about a T because I no longer owe him to let him know what’s going on with me.

I can reach out to my sister. I don’t expect to repair that, I can hope, but I certainly owe her an apology and explanation. It is very hollow and I don’t think she could understand but she is owed it. That feels good, too.

I believe he has “reunited” with someone from his past and I no longer feed what he needs. I’m really okay with it. If I don’t have to worry about fighting him on finances, he said he would do alimony, I feel less pressure that it’s all on me after 26 years of working in the home.

I don’t think it’s smooth sailing. He may end up fighting alimony or the amount. I figured out the 5 year average for both of us and he is nearly 10x the amount I made. But, I ran the whole house, so that has value. I hope he has fun doing his laundry and dishes and cooking and picking up after the kids. All things he can’t seem to do now, but not my problem anymore.

And I know there will be tough times and sad times. That’s life. But he’s not happy with me and I’m not happy he’s not happy, so really not much point.

Anyway, thank you for your support. I read it shortly after you posted, but again brought me to tears. It is so striking to me how complete strangers care more about me than he does, and probably ever did. 

Bless you for your support.

[UBPDHelp]

Did I miss what the "one issue is"?  

Sorry to ask you to clarify but I can't seem to find it scanning.  That said..it's been quite a day here so I may have missed it.

Virtual hugs to you!  

Max out on self care!  Hang in there.

Hi FF, thanks for checking in. The one thing is his name. He wants it back. Super insulting. But honestly he can have it.

I hope all is well with your busy day. Not sure if you’re personally busy or mean fielding questions here. Regardless, hope you’re doing okay.

I’m feeling okay right now. I know it will come and go, but in some ways I’ve been preparing for a long time. In the past I would fight for us, but what in the world would I be fighting for now?  To be called a hillbilly slut? To have my things broken or to be yelled at about the electrician?

Anyway, thank you the reminders for self care.

[formflier]

 
Personally busy in a rodeo with some transmission lines that just didn't want to come out of my diesel truck.  I might have even said a bad word or two...or more.

Well, I had never done this particular job before and everyone on the internet said just take out the grill and you will have plenty of room (right..believe everything on the internet..)

So...after way to long I was like...man if that front bumper wasn't in my way this would be easy.  10 minutes later front bumper was off and a minute later the tranny lines were out.

Well...then I figure out one of the aftermarket parts wasn't the same size (bends and all that) as the factory one so I had to call the dealer.  They said they could have one in about 15 days...(I might have cussed again silently). 

Luckily I found one at a dealer about an hour and half from here and I'm heading that way first thing in the morning. 

So...how was your day?  Hopefully you are ok with a "mini-FF venting hijack".

Since I've had an off day I want to be clear.  His one condition that you aren't ok with is that he wants you to give up his last name.  Does he want to pick your name or just not let you use his last name anymore.

Hang in there.  I'll do some thinking on the name thing.  That's the first time I think I've ever heard that as an issue..so I want to consider it a bit.

Best,

FF

[UBPDHelp]

That sounds intense!  I’m not particularly handy...strangely I can often see how things fit, just can’t make them fit.  

Yep, that’s right on the name. I don’t think he cares what I use, just not his. He doesn’t want to be associated with me.  I’ve had his last name longer than I had my own so it is insulting that that’s his condition.

I questioned about the kids and he was like you can use it for school, but everywhere else not. Okay.  Maybe I’ll change all my kids names to mine. Guess I’ll have to work on the legal custody so I can make those decisions. Ha.

Good luck on getting the parts you need and getting your truck back together!  FYI, swear words can be good therapy.

[babyducks]

The newest part is he is absolutely saying these things and then walking away. I was previously stating my boundary and walking away. Now he insults as he’s walking away. I don’t know what to do with that, if anything.

Any thoughts?  I don’t really want to chase, but feel he’s turning tables again.

Hi UBPDHelp,

Abuse is all about power and control, just like I Am Redeemed said.   Abuse is all about power and control.     He wants those feelings back.    Don't chase him.    That gives him power and control.     Continue to distance yourself physically and emotionally detach yourself from what he says.    When he returns after being insulting don't rush to return to normal.    Use your emotional detachment.   

Then he starts with child custody and that I can decide what it will be and that he will pay me alimony and we’ll sell the house and I can take the profit. Whatever I want. We talked about keeping the kids together and sharing custody. I just said okay. I won’t keep them from you.  He wants one thing that will be a fight if I don’t agree. Otherwise he said he won’t fight me on anything. I will give him that one thing even though it’s so insulting, but truthfully I’m okay with it. More on that later.

Any thoughts?  I believe as he’s seeing pandemic wrap up, he’s feeling emboldened.

I would appreciate any advice. Any. This is new.

I will say almost immediately after his announcement, his facial tics and clearing his throat started.

Don't assume that this first step is going to be the final agreement.    prepare yourself that he might back track or might renege on what he has said.    This is a process.    Be alert as he continues to mentally decompensate.   Safety first.     Take slow careful baby steps.   Maintain as much physical and emotional distance as you can manage.     Give yourself breaks,   times to rest and restore your energy.    Take things one day at a time.

'ducks

[UBPDHelp]

Hi UBPDHelp,

Abuse is all about power and control, just like I Am Redeemed said.   Abuse is all about power and control.     He wants those feelings back.    Don't chase him.    That gives him power and control.     Continue to distance yourself physically and emotionally detach yourself from what he says.    When he returns after being insulting don't rush to return to normal.    Use your emotional detachment. 

I feel refreshingly detached. I don’t feel I owe him anything at this point. We sat in same room for a while after the discussion doing different things. When I was ready for bed, I just went. Didn’t worry if it was too early by his accounts. Just enjoyed my time and sleep.   

Don't assume that this first step is going to be the final agreement.    prepare yourself that he might back track or might renege on what he has said.    This is a process.    Be alert as he continues to mentally decompensate.   Safety first.     Take slow careful baby steps.   Maintain as much physical and emotional distance as you can manage.     Give yourself breaks,   times to rest and restore your energy.    Take things one day at a time.

I definitely don’t. I know he can change with the wind. He almost immediately started chatting on Facebook and his notifications started going. I believe he has secured a potential new victim. Normally this would be hurtful, devastating, but now I just hope he stays charming long enough that he gives me what I want just to get rid of me.

And we’re still stuck home so I’m going under the radar as much as possible.

I have slight concern (2-3%) that he thought I would try to fight to stay together and he might flip it around and say he’s willing to work on it if I do whatever. I pray not, but I’ve never been ready to divorce before. If that happens I may lie and say I’ll think about it/try but take some time. I’m not sure if my refusal would escalate and we’re still home. I doubt any of this, but he’s unpredictable. 

Anyway, if there are any updates, I will share them. Thank you so much for your steady support and kind reminders. Your focus and help are so very appreciated.

[formflier]

I started putting a post to you together last night, something went sideways on my computer and I realized I likely wasn't making sense..soo...hopefully this will be better.

1.  Max out on self care and special stuff for you.

2.  The insulting while walking away stuff.  Look at that as a badge of honor (good work) on your part.  Your decisions and actions have shifted the dynamic, without asking his permission at all.  Yes, this is an "imprecise" way of doing things, yet you should hopefully gain great power and hope realizing that "yes..I can cause crazy to change.."  (just not in a precise way)

3.  Yes the above still applies even if you guys get divorced.  This is about your relationship, not about the status of a legal marriage.

4.  I wouldn't fight him on the name thing or any other issues at this point.  "I'm sure that thought can be accommodated in our settlement.." could be a good phrase to use, without being specific.   Work on a couple more like that which say the same thing...so you are not a broken record.

5.  What can you do to handle lawyer calls ASAP?  Your goal is to get something on paper asap, especially regarding custody or other issues that you consider important.  Once there are temp written agreements/orders the impact of a pwBPD "changing their mind" goes down quite a bit.

6.  I would advise you to resist spending mental energy on him searching for a "replacement" or the content of his online activities.  My gut tells me this is not coming from a thoughtful place on his part.

7.  Be ready to handle a bid to get you back.   (yep...I'm advising you to prepare for this in the same post as talking to divorce lawyers)  Bear with me..it will make sense.    I'm not at all advising you to get divorced or to stay married.  I am advising you to be done with "that" marriage and "that" relationship.  Divorce can handle some of that, change in your part can handle some of that and there is a possibility he can change.   Please don't pin your hopes here, but it is important for you to be ready.  Whether or not you offer to discuss his attempt at reconciliation with a counselor, clergy or whatever...he needs to understand the door is open and there is cost...that you are not open to "going back to the old relationship".

8.  Circling around to again be super kind to yourself.  You know...now that he wants to divorce, is there any reason to let his opinion of counselors and Ts affect your choices?  Hmmm...

Best,

FF

[UBPDHelp]

I started putting a post to you together last night, something went sideways on my computer and I realized I likely wasn't making sense..soo...hopefully this will be better.

1.  Max out on self care and special stuff for you.

2.  The insulting while walking away stuff.  Look at that as a badge of honor (good work) on your part.  Your decisions and actions have shifted the dynamic, without asking his permission at all.  Yes, this is an "imprecise" way of doing things, yet you should hopefully gain great power and hope realizing that "yes..I can cause crazy to change.."  (just not in a precise way)

In a way that what I was thinking. I enjoyed the thought of impacting him for a moment. It took me a few times of him doing it to realize it was an actual change. Long or short lived, I have no idea.

3.  Yes the above still applies even if you guys get divorced.  This is about your relationship, not about the status of a legal marriage.

4.  I wouldn't fight him on the name thing or any other issues at this point.  "I'm sure that thought can be accommodated in our settlement.." could be a good phrase to use, without being specific.   Work on a couple more like that which say the same thing...so you are not a broken record.

I didn’t and I won’t. I just want financial support. I will share holidays and every other weekend. My third has voiced several times doesn’t care if ever sees him again. I feel for that and understand. Some is teen angst and some is real. I don’t think it benefits the kids to outwardly pick sides. And he can be an amazing dad, but often comes with the same level bad (Jekyll/Hyde). So, visitations will be okay but subject to change with cause.

We have a lot of stuff. I’m not attached to any except stuff from my family. I’m sure we can agree on split.  

5.  What can you do to handle lawyer calls ASAP?  Your goal is to get something on paper asap, especially regarding custody or other issues that you consider important.  Once there are temp written agreements/orders the impact of a pwBPD "changing their mind" goes down quite a bit.

I’ve been chatting with two I like. I wanted to give it a day or two to let things land before calling. But maybe I’ll do that this afternoon or the morning. Soon. I don’t care what he thinks, but do have fear of escalating his anger when still on stay home orders. This could be a scare tactic on his part, not that I’m not done with this, but he may be expecting I’ll come ask to resolve.

6.  I would advise you to resist spending mental energy on him searching for a "replacement" or the content of his online activities.  My gut tells me this is not coming from a thoughtful place on his part.

By thoughtful I assume you mean he’s not consciously doing this?  Not that he isn’t being kind.

I have a moment of anger about it but then ultimately don’t care. Just more hypocrisy on his part.

7.  Be ready to handle a bid to get you back.   (yep...I'm advising you to prepare for this in the same post as talking to divorce lawyers)  Bear with me..it will make sense.    I'm not at all advising you to get divorced or to stay married.  I am advising you to be done with "that" marriage and "that" relationship.  Divorce can handle some of that, change in your part can handle some of that and there is a possibility he can change.   Please don't pin your hopes here, but it is important for you to be ready.  Whether or not you offer to discuss his attempt at reconciliation with a counselor, clergy or whatever...he needs to understand the door is open and there is cost...that you are not open to "going back to the old relationship".

I did not consider this until this morning and I was like oh no, what if this was to scare me?  I agree there is a cost to it, but I think we all know he won’t be able to live up to it so pretty moot. That said, I may be amenable while we’re stay home.

A lot to think about. Attorney is first order of business. Thanks FF.

8.  Circling around to again be super kind to yourself.  You know...now that he wants to divorce, is there any reason to let his opinion of counselors and Ts affect your choices?  Hmmm...

Nope they don’t. Timing is important right now.

Will get some sunshine and time with kiddos. Thank you, thank you!

[GaGrl]

A couple of thoughts...

1) In making a final decision on a lawyer, you might want to give them a couple of high conflict or passive aggressive "what if" scenarios that your H might be capable of doing, to get a sense of how they would respond and represent you. Maybe a reconciliation attempt could be one of them, or stalling.

2) The name...I had to laugh! When DH and I married, I kept my maiden name because I had several degrees, certifications, professional memberships, and an extensive job history in that name in that city. DH had no problem with that. His ex kept his surname because it sounds American. I have had to correct USAA numerous times when calling about insurance, because they won't give me info because I'm not "Maj. Smith's current wife." Everyone at USAA is somehow attached to the service member's profile, so the ex is still there with all his relatives. Sigh...The solution was that DH now gets to do all financials with USAA. Yay for him!

Anyway...my take on it...not a big deal and not worth a big negotiation. Although you could suggest you use your maiden name as a full middle name, or hyphenated (Susan Smith Jones or Susan Smith-Jones) if school stuff was an issue. I never found that it was.

[UBPDHelp]

A couple of thoughts...

1) In making a final decision on a lawyer, you might want to give them a couple of high conflict or passive aggressive "what if" scenarios that your H might be capable of doing, to get a sense of how they would respond and represent you. Maybe a reconciliation attempt could be one of them, or stalling.

2) The name...I had to laugh! When DH and I married, I kept my maiden name because I had several degrees, certifications, professional memberships, and an extensive job history in that name in that city. DH had no problem with that. His ex kept his surname because it sounds American. I have had to correct USAA numerous times when calling about insurance, because they won't give me info because I'm not "Maj. Smith's current wife." Everyone at USAA is somehow attached to the service member's profile, so the ex is still there with all his relatives. Sigh...The solution was that DH now gets to do all financials with USAA. Yay for him!

Anyway...my take on it...not a big deal and not worth a big negotiation. Although you could suggest you use your maiden name as a full middle name, or hyphenated (Susan Smith Jones or Susan Smith-Jones) if school stuff was an issue. I never found that it was.

Hi GaGrl,

I don’t care. My maiden name is way easier. It was meant as an insult. Ultimately it’s not. He can keep it.

That’s funny/not funny about your name and the ex. Glad you’re a good sport. I get my H’s estranged father’s new wife sometimes. So much fun. Sends H and his mom in a tizzy but whatever. 

Thanks for sharing options.

[formflier]

Hi GaGrl,
 It was meant as an insult. 

What if it wasn't meant that way? 

Would it really matter?  Do we ever know what is really was meant as?

Most likely it was actually meant (functioned as) as a stress/emotion reliever of some sort.

I completely understand the "draw" (lure) to ascribe motive to the crazy.  I would hope you can be deliberate about choosing not to do that...going forward.


Best,

FF

[UBPDHelp]

What if it wasn't meant that way? 

Would it really matter?  Do we ever know what is really was meant as?

Most likely it was actually meant (functioned as) as a stress/emotion reliever of some sort.

I completely understand the "draw" (lure) to ascribe motive to the crazy.  I would hope you can be deliberate about choosing not to do that...going forward.

I hear you. I don’t really care his motive or intent or if he was just trying to be mean. None matters.

That said, today he’s stayed away and then with big flourish ran off with my computer (he uses VERY rarely) and stomped around. No reaction from me. When I finally sat down in same room I casually just said to let me know when he was done so I could finish kid four’s homework with him.  Ten minutes later, he hands it to me with all his searches up. Selling the house, new bank account, unemployment. I have no idea what he’s up to, if anything, or if just next attempt to rattle me. I stayed unfazed.

I reached out to two attorneys via email per their covid request to contact. Hopefully I will hear back no later than tomorrow. Both had decent reviews, years of experience and came up on high conflict search. I’m still nervous they won’t grasp the magnitude. I’m not sure I’m a good judge of who would.

I also reached out to my sister. It’s a conversation due. I don’t know that she will, or should, ever forgive me, but I can’t live with myself any longer for how I allowed him to wedge us apart. Still my fault for not holding this but I thought it would be temporary and little did I know I was just growing the beast within.

Anyway, I’m okay with my name, he’s done far worse to hurt me. I’ve moved on.

Thank you FF for keeping me on the straight and narrow!

[formflier]

Hmmm...UBPDHelp I think you are doing a wonderful job of "responding" differently..instead of "reacting".  Bravo...BRAVO!   


There's something I'm seeing and it's kinda hard to put my finger on.  If it fits...or doesn't..let me know.  (all part of us getting to know each other)

If it was me and I had given away my name and taken someone else's and then they made a big deal about "taking it back"...well...that would hurt.  It would matter to me, even if I had "intellectually" figured out that they were not thoughtfully doing it to be mean.

I also remember the days of computer pages "accidentally" being left open and things "accidentally" being left in the printer tray.  Oh yeah...I could tell you stories for a couple of days.. 

I also observe that it's amazing "they" all seem to have the same playbook...

Listen...even though I did better at my responses...the "crazy" took a toll.  It hurt...it mattered.

I hope you can get yourself some private time to spend time with your emotions.  I totally get that it's not practicable or wise to get into that when your pwBPD could storm in at any minute.  Perhaps you can take yourself on a "date" or something.

Basically I'm concerned you are putting on a brave face and/or not able to find time to sit with your emotions.

I'm sorry you are going through this.  We've got your back!

Best,

FF

[UBPDHelp]

Hmmm...UBPDHelp I think you are doing a wonderful job of "responding" differently..instead of "reacting".  Bravo...BRAVO!    

I’m trying. I just see it all as just attempts to try to control and scare me. But, who wants to live like that?  The flicker that this was all just big talk did grow a bit today. The thing is, there’s a greater chance he meant it, but it doesn’t matter. I do. I simply can’t fathom this repeating any longer. I’m still scared of the steps and a whole lot of uncertainty. But, I know I’ll get a job, may not be great or ideal, but good chance for peace. It really is what I see as my biggest hurdle — breaking financial dependency on him.

There's something I'm seeing and it's kinda hard to put my finger on.  If it fits...or doesn't..let me know.  (all part of us getting to know each other)

If it was me and I had given away my name and taken someone else's and then they made a big deal about "taking it back"...well...that would hurt.  It would matter to me, even if I had "intellectually" figured out that they were not thoughtfully doing it to be mean.

The only reason it bothered me is because it meant my children would have a different name. I know plenty of people like that, some still married and kept their name. And, that he was the one forcing it. I’ll give you all the money, and the kids, but I want my name.

And I’ve known him a long time. I believe this was a very calculated statement meant to sting. And it did, for a second. I believe this because when he’s mad at me (which is all the time) he calls me it. Better yet, he’ll call me Mrs. old bf name, which he also included in options. You have to admit this is twisted behavior.

 Now I am kind of excited for my maiden name. Better and cooler.

I also remember the days of computer pages "accidentally" being left open and things "accidentally" being left in the printer tray.  Oh yeah...I could tell you stories for a couple of days..  

I also observe that it's amazing "they" all seem to have the same playbook...

It is really interesting. Open a bank account with no money, sell a house that’s not in your name. Scare, rouse, I don’t know. He has to figure out him.  

Listen...even though I did better at my responses...the "crazy" took a toll.  It hurt...it mattered.

I hope you can get yourself some private time to spend time with your emotions.  I totally get that it's not practicable or wise to get into that when your pwBPD could storm in at any minute.  Perhaps you can take yourself on a "date" or something.

Basically I'm concerned you are putting on a brave face and/or not able to find time to sit with your emotions.

I'm sorry you are going through this.  We've got your back!

Thanks. I have a kid call tomorrow and possibly attorney, but may be Monday. I can find time, usually in the morning I’m alone.

I’m feeling okay and resolved. But, I’ve grieved a lot in my life and I know feelings come and go and change so I know there will be days I’m brought to my knees, but I still don’t see this ever being possible again. Working on acceptance and step by step moving forward.

Thanks FF...your guidance is so helpful.

[kells76]

Hi again UBPDhelp;

Popping in with some legal thoughts about the whole "name" thing... Maybe stuff to "have up your sleeve" down the road.

(1) If it's a "big deal" to him, then it's leverage for you. If he wants to "hang a lot of weight" on this, then you can use it to bargain if necessary. Not sure how far you go in "pretending you care" or, IDK, perhaps better, "not immediately showing him you don't care". But, consider that if he attaches a lot of control/weight/meaning to you changing your name... and you personally don't care that much... then it is to your advantage, if/when negotiations come up. Trade "name change" for ______ (fill in the blank from him).

(2) Consider whether he has any say over what you do after you're divorced. What if you change it back after the divorce is final? You're not married -- he has no say in what you feel like you want to do. The only thing that would slow me down would be if he takes out his frustration on the kids somehow.

Anyway... just thinking that if it were me, I wouldn't "tip my hand" too early on the name change thing. Keep responses vague and noncommittal, without being dismissive -- I like how FF put it: (something like) "That could be under consideration in the papers we sign".

[formflier]

 
One of the things "we" need to think about is starting a thread on the divorce boards. 

I do still think a thread needs to stay over here as well. 

Essentially there are relationship things to talk about and there is divorce strategy to talk about.  It's important to get the both right.

I agree on the name.  It's leverage.  And I do think it's an area to "show pain" so he "thinks he has got you".

Again...over here on the "relationship thread" we need to prep for what happens when he pushes for a "recycle" or "reconnection".  (is there anyone that thinks that isn't going to somehow come up?)

Best,

FF

[GaGrl]

More on the name thing...

Turns out that, actually, you can call yourself by any name you have the documentation to present for identification purposes. There is no law in the U.S. that prevents your obtaining id or petitioning for a particular name.

My stepdaughter had nothing in her divorce settlement about returning to her maiden name. The state she lives in said she just needs her birth certificate and divorce pspers, and she is allowed to change it at the drivers license office -- whether it is ordered in the divorce or not.

But the strategist in me likes holding out for a trade...

[UBPDHelp]

Hi again UBPDhelp;

Popping in with some legal thoughts about the whole "name" thing... Maybe stuff to "have up your sleeve" down the road.

(1) If it's a "big deal" to him, then it's leverage for you. If he wants to "hang a lot of weight" on this, then you can use it to bargain if necessary. Not sure how far you go in "pretending you care" or, IDK, perhaps better, "not immediately showing him you don't care". But, consider that if he attaches a lot of control/weight/meaning to you changing your name... and you personally don't care that much... then it is to your advantage, if/when negotiations come up. Trade "name change" for ______ (fill in the blank from him).

This a good idea. There has been no further discussion and in fact, no discussion at all. I’m staying away from conversation because I believe it will only turn on me. I in no way think he will stand by what he said, but I’m busy gathering my rights. The L is next week, early, which is good. I may have to take it outside or something. Will figure it out.

(2) Consider whether he has any say over what you do after you're divorced. What if you change it back after the divorce is final? You're not married -- he has no say in what you feel like you want to do. The only thing that would slow me down would be if he takes out his frustration on the kids somehow.

Anyway... just thinking that if it were me, I wouldn't "tip my hand" too early on the name change thing. Keep responses vague and noncommittal, without being dismissive -- I like how FF put it: (something like) "That could be under consideration in the papers we sign".

I like this. I don’t really mind using my maiden name. In fact, I might prefer. He really ran my family over the coals (I allowed it) and it feels like it may be a sort of homage.

That said, I definitely like making it a bargaining chip...he said he would fight me so have to watch taking it to far. Mostly just be ready with what I want in return.

Thanks Kells!

[UBPDHelp]

One of the things "we" need to think about is starting a thread on the divorce boards.

I do still think a thread needs to stay over here as well.

I have because I knew they had that “divorce” insight. You guys know me over here though so it is helpful to stay here too...

Essentially there are relationship things to talk about and there is divorce strategy to talk about.  It's important to get the both right.

Agree

I agree on the name.  It's leverage.  And I do think it's an area to "show pain" so he "thinks he has got you".

Initially I cried when he said it (genuine) and then got mad (also genuine). I think it just was so insulting. He’s embarrassed of me and couldn’t bear if anyone knows I’m associated with him. The feeling is mutual.

Again...over here on the "relationship thread" we need to prep for what happens when he pushes for a "recycle" or "reconnection".  (is there anyone that thinks that isn't going to somehow come up?)

Nothing of this as of now. He’s back to not eating with us and just plays the tv so loud. I do what I want and don’t bother. He did try to engage for a sec today but I could see the topic would start his baiting so kept it brief, really brief. Other than that I stayed away.

My current plan is to be somewhat agreeable if he does try (I’m not expecting it, I really do think he wants a divorce). I will certainly tell him the things I am no longer willing to do (like no control or comment on my family or if I want to talk to someone). But ultimately I just think it’s irretrievable. I am exhausted and all of the effort for better and rational falls on me. He hasn’t worked in three months. At least 50-60 percent he could have. And despite this he’s all about vacation and when we can take a trip. It is beyond how I want to live. I want the peace of knowing my bills are paid and that I’ve done what I’m supposed to. No more borrowing from Peter to pay Paul, because Peter never gets his money back. The stress of that lifestyle has taken a physical toll. Add all of the emotional bs I’ve dealt with, and I simply do not see it being good to fight to save this.

Regardless, since I have nothing I can do for a few weeks, if he tries to make it better, I will be better.

Thanks FF

[UBPDHelp]

More on the name thing...

Turns out that, actually, you can call yourself by any name you have the documentation to present for identification purposes. There is no law in the U.S. that prevents your obtaining id or petitioning for a particular name.

My stepdaughter had nothing in her divorce settlement about returning to her maiden name. The state she lives in said she just needs her birth certificate and divorce pspers, and she is allowed to change it at the drivers license office -- whether it is ordered in the divorce or not.

But the strategist in me likes holding out for a trade...

Interesting. I have my original SS card and my married one. I may have been supposed to turn it in or destroy it, but I never did. And I have my birth certificate, so good to go when I have divorce papers.

But, it is a good bargaining chip. I know he was trying to be mean but surprised he tipped his hand.

Thanks for the info GaGrl

[babyducks]

Initially I cried when he said it (genuine) and then got mad (also genuine). I think it just was so insulting. He’s embarrassed of me and couldn’t bear if anyone knows I’m associated with him. The feeling is mutual.

I don't agree UBPDHelp.   That's not how narcissism functions.   Being embarrassed and not wanting to acknowledge an association are your emotions.   and they are understandable ones.     his are likely different.  he has strong traits of  narcissism which would point more to the idea of punishing.    and protecting his unstable self image.    try to avoid subscribing shared emotions.    try to avoid emotional merging.    his thinking is not like yours.    your thinking is not like his.    try to avoid reading in.

'ducks

[UBPDHelp]

I don't agree UBPDHelp.   That's not how narcissism functions.   Being embarrassed and not wanting to acknowledge an association are your emotions.   and they are understandable ones.     his are likely different.  he has strong traits of  narcissism which would point more to the idea of punishing.    and protecting his unstable self image.    try to avoid subscribing shared emotions.    try to avoid emotional merging.    his thinking is not like yours.    your thinking is not like his.    try to avoid reading in.

'ducks

Yes, I really don’t understand any of his motivations. Definitely punishing.

But, he has told me he’s embarrassed of me (I’ve gained 20 stress pounds) so I think my imperfections slam his need to put a perfect picture to the world. All of his social media candid shots are immensely staged. Illusions.

But, I’m starting to separate from being concerned why he does things or even his emotions. Sorry to speculate. And, sorry “the feeling is mutual” was a snarky comment. I don’t care much what anyone thinks, except if he’s acting a bit crazy. That’s embarrassing.

Will try harder.

[Cat Familiar]

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