INFJ with BPD Wife (ISTP)

[Aurylian]

I haven't been on here for quite some time.  My W was diagnosed wBPD 10 years ago.  I learned a lot over that time, but it has been wearing on me.  The T who diagnosed her insisted she not be told, as she was high functioning and she wouldn't receive it and might cause damage.  I don't believe that is the best course, but have complied as after 10 years I don't see any point.  My BPDW is on medication for depression and anxiety, which have helped with the rollercoaster moods, but over time has lead to narcissistic traits cropping up. 

I have learned and used all the tools with great success, but can't seem to get around my primary issue--as an INFJ, I can't get myself to not absorb all the constant negativity she generates.  We have three daughters (18, 16, 14) who avoid her unless they are watching TV together, which works well.  Outside of that all of us avoid her as any conversation over two minutes turns negative and accusatory.  I have managed to stay in most of these when needed, and exited when they got out of hand, but the whole process leaves me exhausted.  I go to bed early every night just to avoid late night conversations--which go negative after only 30 seconds. 

I only learned of MBTI a few years ago, and that really helped me understand how I'm wired.  If my W understood her ISTP and our differences, we could be a great couple as we'd have no blind spots.  Unfortunately, you mix ISTP focus on Ti with BPD black and white thinking and Ni as an inferior function that makes up facts to support the reality, you get someone who believes they are always right, everyone with a different view is wrong, and their reality proves they are right.

Why stay?  My girls and the California Family Courts and not wanted to lose 60% of my hard earned lifestyle and retirement.  I know that staying for the kids is often a bad idea, but my W is high enough functioning that it would be more disruptive to divorce, where she would completely go off the deep end.  I have no desire for another relationship, so that isn't a temptation.

This is a long way to seek advice from anyone that is INFJ and successfully dealing with an SO wBPD.  Are there any tricks to avoid our tendency to be an emotional sponge--especially when living with someone who exudes negativity like most breath out carbon dioxide?

[Cat Familiar]

I'm an INTJ, but I thought I'd still weigh in. When I did the MB many years ago, I had several sessions with a woman who did testing/counseling for major corporations and I was right on the border between F and T, but over time, I've become more T-like.

I have the capacity to be a psychic sponge too, so I understand what you're talking about with all the negativity and chaos.  

How to get around it?

Well, I have a few strategies. One, I have a lot of animals: horse, donkey, goats, sheep, cats. I'm very tuned into them, especially when they need veterinary assistance, but I basically don't take their transitory moods personally. I can imagine my husband as one of the menagerie and when he's in a black mood, I can just let him be him, much like if the donkey was being surly. It becomes a spectacle--not really entertaining, but like a drama I'm not particularly interested in watching--and then it passes, like a dark cloud giving way to blue sky.

Other strategies are making sure I'm sleeping well, eating well, getting plenty of exercise and minimizing stress. I'm prone to depression, and just learned through a DNA test that I have a couple of genetic defects that make depression likely. Even before I knew that, I was taking 5-htp when I felt down.

5-htp is a naturally occurring amino acid and chemical precursor for the synthesis of the neurotransmitter serotonin, a contributor to feelings of well being and it certainly brightens my mood.

What are things you do that you enjoy? Music, crafts, fixing things--I'm way into doing minor home repairs. Writing, journaling?

I think so many of us spend far too much time in the company of people who are difficult and far less time doing things that bring us joy.

[Aurylian]

Sorry, but the first part of your response about animals made me laugh.  I love animals very much.  I would love to have a big dog and a horse (used to ride), but my BPDw hates animals.  We had two cats that we rescued, but one of them marked a lot, and since we adopted them as a bonded pair, we had to return them.  I could force the animal issue, but we have had that conversation a hundred times and she has made it clear how she feels.  How I or my girls feel is not important. 

I do have a wood shop and get out there for projects at times.  It is very therapeutic, but only when I have stuff to work on.  Right now my last project is blocking all work (a bed) until we can get the bedroom painted and can switch beds.  I also have too many creative hobbies (music, photography) and do get to them a lot, but have to spend some time with my W if I am to stay in the relationship. 

I will look into the amino acid.  Interesting. 

[Cat Familiar]

Aurylian messed this up.  Sorry.

[Aurylian]

"Does your wife engage in any hobbies, sports, physical activities? It seems that MB type has a need to be active and engaged in mechanical/technical things. If not, perhaps that's where her depression and negativity come from."

She works out like a fiend, is underweight, but not anorexic--but is has a real obsession with fat or skinny people.  She volunteers a lot at the school (over cooking dinner, etc.) and works part time as a flight attendant, but has taken a leave due to COVID.  That hasn't helped.

Playing amateur psychologist, as an ISTP, her primary function is Ti, which means she scans the family constantly for inconsistencies with the way she thinks and calls them out and argues them when she sees them.  When stressed, she drops to her inferior introverted function, Ni (my primary), but for her, immature introverted intuition manifests as: being wrong is painful and life is black and white, so I must look inside to create basis to change the facts to make them right. Also manifests anxiety and paranoia about future and generates a fear to act.

[Cat Familiar]

So when she’s being hypercritical with black and white thinking and feels anxiety and paranoia about the future, what emotional defenses do you utilize to keep this chaos from affecting you?

[Aurylian]

So when she’s being hypercritical with black and white thinking and feels anxiety and paranoia about the future, what emotional defenses do you utilize to keep this chaos from affecting you?

I usually validate the feelings, and at times try to gently reassure her with facts, but that part depends on the conversation as most of the time facts wouldn't help, and validation is the only solution.  If it starts to look endless then I usually have something I need to work on and exit.  

For me, just trying to hold her statements at arms length as best I can.  But, 99% it just spirals to the point where I find a reason to give her a hug and exit.  If she directs the ire towards me and completely misstates provable facts, then I will validate the feelings, but also express the facts.  Sometimes it causes her to pause and think, other times she just ignores it and we just have to acknowledge that we saw things differently.

There was a period where I determined to stay in conversations as long as it took with all the tools, but these conversations never ended and just spiraled darker and darker and never seemed to have accomplished anything except leaving me exhausted.  So, I don't do that anymore.  Focusing on work, heading to my woodshed to create, helps.

Understanding my INFJ-ness helps me a lot as to why I absorb, and why my Ni doesn't make any sense to her.  

[Cat Familiar]

I think there’s a big gulf between those who are Sensory vs. those who are Intuitive. As you’ve mentioned, the ST element along with the BPD makes her feel that her interpretations of reality are correct and anyone who doesn’t agree, must therefore be wrong.

I’ve noticed a huge difference between Judgers and Perceivers (I really don’t like those terms as they aren’t very descriptive of the modalities they name.)

As a J, once I make a decision, I go with it. My husband, being a P, will relitigate a decision endlessly, wondering if he’s doing the “right thing”. It may take me a while to make up my mind, but once I do, I’m comfortable with that, as I figure I’ve done my due diligence.

That decision might prove to be not the best choice, and if it does, I will switch course. But the P way of rehashing decisions endlessly gets under my skin, so I try to ignore his doubts, unless he brings new information to evaluate.

Perhaps what you’re experiencing with these endless conversations is your wife’s Perceiving element seeking some sort of resolution. I know as a J, that sort of behavior would drive me batty.

[Aurylian]

I think there’s a big gulf between those who are Sensory vs. those who are Intuitive. As you’ve mentioned, the ST element along with the BPD makes her feel that her interpretations of reality are correct and anyone who doesn’t agree, must therefore be wrong.

I’ve noticed a huge difference between Judgers and Perceivers (I really don’t like those terms as they aren’t very descriptive of the modalities they name.)

As a J, once I make a decision, I go with it. My husband, being a P, will relitigate a decision endlessly, wondering if he’s doing the “right thing”. It may take me a while to make up my mind, but once I do, I’m comfortable with that, as I figure I’ve done my due diligence.

That decision might prove to be not the best choice, and if it does, I will switch course. But the P way of rehashing decisions endlessly gets under my skin, so I try to ignore his doubts, unless he brings new information to evaluate.

Perhaps what you’re experiencing with these endless conversations is your wife’s Perceiving element seeking some sort of resolution. I know as a J, that sort of behavior would drive me batty.

You nailed it.  I am wired like you and my W like your husband.  Helps me understand it better, but hard to have positive conversations that don't end up circling the toilet. 

I think I need to start my next woodworking project and give myself more places to positively express creativity.  That always helps me feel like I'm accomplishing something.

[Cat Familiar]

I think I need to start my next woodworking project and give myself more places to positively express creativity.  That always helps me feel like I'm accomplishing something.

That seems like an excellent strategy. Not only do you get creative time, you get time to recharge your emotional batteries, and you’re doing something productive that gives you pleasure.

[formflier]

The only  I saw was trying to reassure her with facts.  Can you give a few examples?

In fact, if you could give some he said she said of how this goes with you, I can probably give you some ideas to try to mix it up.

My wife can easily go negative...very easily. 

For the record..I'm ESTJ and my wife is INFP.  I'm very strong on my scale, I really don't remember how "solid" my wife was.

Do you remember or have you ever tried to understand your wife's "love language"?  Mine is acts of service and my wife's is touch.  Luckily we are very very heavy on our first trait for love language, so that can work for me to turn things.  Many times I can literally lean in and place a hand on her/gently rub her neck and it can sometimes turn things.  It's also a way of figuring out how far off the rails she is.

If she pulls away from my touch my Naval Aviator training comes in and I'm reaching for the EJECT handle! 

Oh...last thought.  Any idea what your wife's "core wound" is.  For instance...my wife was told she was wrong or things she was doing were wrong so much that she internalizes almost anything as criticism.  Heaven forbid I actually need to point out she is actually wrong...many times I skip it.

Best,

FF

[Aurylian]

The only  I saw was trying to reassure her with facts.  Can you give a few examples?
...

Do you remember or have you ever tried to understand your wife's "love language"? 
...

Oh...last thought.  Any idea what your wife's "core wound" is.  For instance...my wife was told she was wrong or things she was doing were wrong so much that she internalizes almost anything as criticism.  Heaven forbid I actually need to point out she is actually wrong...many times I skip it.

Best,

FF

The general form is Aury says/likes Purple, Wife says she hates Purple but loves Red, after long discussion with Aury trying to find mutual ground and Wife trying to shoot down all compromises, Aury gives up and goes with Red.  Later, similar conversations starts and Aury says, let's not do Purple as you didn't like Purple, Wife says I love purple, you were the one who didn't like Purple.  Aury says, then why did we have that long discussion about Red and why did we go with Red.  Wife thinks for a minute and then moves on.

It's obviously not about colors.  Usually it involves her accusing me of something I did not do, then I point to an indisputable fact that she actually witnessed that cannot be denied.  I have the unfortunate choice of accepting blame for something I did not do, or trying to somehow demonstrate that I wasn't evil through facts.

Love languages are touch and acts of service for her, but the challenge is they end up going into a black hole.  There is never enough of either no matter how much is supplied.  I have had to learn that I can give what I can in balance with everything else, and she will not be satisfied with the amount.

Wife's Wounds:  where to start.  How about she grew up in a household where the kids were told to hide emotions, never show any flaws, and when they had strong feelings they were wrong.  How's that.  Oh yeah, and the father of the family committed suicide after a 20-year hidden affair was exposed.  Oh yeah, and wife's first husband just up and left the state without any notice--never came back.  How is that for core wounds.  I was white knighting when we got together, but that doesn't minimize who bad I feel that anyone had to go through all that.  She has plenty of wounds to justify where she is at psychologically.

[formflier]

Uggg.

I'm sorry.  That must be really difficult.

OK.  Since you know where the discussions go and you know they aren't about the color, I'm curious to know more of your reasoning to have those discussions.


2nd thought.  How often do the "indisputable facts" help?  10% of the time?  50%?

Can you give an example of an "indisputable facts"?  Not something I want to be unclear about.

Last (for now).  What kind of self care do you do after these episodes?

Best,

FF

[Aurylian]

OK.  Since you know where the discussions go and you know they aren't about the color, I'm curious to know more of your reasoning to have those discussions.


2nd thought.  How often do the "indisputable facts" help?  10% of the time?  50%?

Can you give an example of an "indisputable facts"?  Not something I want to be unclear about.

Last (for now).  What kind of self care do you do after these episodes

Reasoning for having these discussions: LOL, because for some reason I have to talk to my wife.  It comes up randomly, but usually after 2-5 minutes of discussing anything--especially any decision.  It goes well for a couple minutes, then it goes sideways.  Usually decisions about our daughters, the house, scheduling, vacations, and the like.  I avoid as many as I can, but I don't really want to just make all the decisions and leave her out.  If I do, then I hear about it for the next five years how I hurt her by not including her etc.  Short term pain of the conversations is better than the long term of not.

Indisputable facts help about 20% of the time.  The rest of the time when our realities don't line up I just have to fall back to "well, I guess we remember that differently."

Indisputable facts: 1) She says she agreed with me on something, but we had a full day battle over the topic, including going out to dinner to talk about that one thing, the only purpose for which was to talk about the disagreement. 2) Paint.  We painted the basement grey with a purple tint, which she approved.  Later she hated it.  I wanted to continue the color upstairs to the kitchen, but she insisted on blue.  Yesterday, I mentioned that we need to pick a color for the entry now to merge the grey with the blue.  I mentioned how I was fine with basement grey, but knew she didn't care for it.  She said she loved the basement grey.  To which I could point out then why is the kitchen blue?  No answer.  3) Her: "we always do what you want on vacation."  Me: "Well, our last five vacations have been cruises that you liked, when I would like to do something different."  No answer because we obviously did the cruises.

Self Care: when it starts going south and not productive I find an exit and if I can either go work on work, or work in my shop or go on a hike. 

The main problem which was in my first post is that I'm feeling like there is really no good answer to how to not absorb her negative emotions.  I have been surviving for 25 years, but seems like there is no way to get her to not exude negative emotions and concepts, and no good way for my INFJ-ness to enjoy that.  I can survive, but it makes it extremely hard to "feel" the infatuation part of love.  I know some BPD relationships have cycles of good and bad.  Ours seems to go from flat to bad without the upside.  Wish I could grow a thicker skin, but even with that it can be challenging to find things that are positive.  Especially when you find yourself avoiding every conversation.

So why stay?  For my daughters for now (I know).  Also, because I can't see myself interested in marriage again so I have no motivation to lose 60% of my earnings just so I can be alone more.  The main part I don't like is that it feels dishonest.  I try to be loving and provide all I can for her needs, so if I were to leave at some point it would probably make her implode.  I don't that.  It's hard to be around her often, but I don't hate her.  And things are not really fulfilling, but they also don't have the really nasty BPD swings that many hear have to deal with.

[formflier]

  Short term pain of the conversations is better than the long term of not.

Is this really true or is it possible this isn't true?  Think about  this..is it possible that short term relief is "training" your wife (and perhaps you) to avoid longer term issues.

Best,

FF

[Aurylian]

Is this really true or is it possible this isn't true?  Think about  this..is it possible that short term relief is "training" your wife (and perhaps you) to avoid longer term issues.

That is the million dollar question.  But, here is what I have found.  Several times I have tried to work through counseling, learning together, confrontation, asking, and each of those has failed miserably.  There are two problems.  The first, as a high-functioning pBPD, she believes the problems all exist on my side.  Any time I have escalated beyond the stasis we seem to be able to exist in, it activates the BPD impulses and it quickly moves to a mass of dysfunction for weeks or months.  The second problem is that any time I seem to get through or we have what seems like a minor breakthrough, she forgets within a day or week and we are back to square one.

At times I wish she were lower functioning so we could actually deal with the problem.  But, if when there are low times, she just changes her reality and we are back to remembering things differently.

I don't know that there is a "correct" way to deal with this, but I look at it somewhat like having a handicapped child.  It wasn't the plan, but these things happen.  You do the best you can, but it is what it is.  As long as she doesn't cross major boundaries, then it seems the best way forward is to coexist until we can't.

[Cat Familiar]

I'm going to go back to your original question on this thread--how does one get past the negativity that a pwBPD generates?

A bit of background on me: Though I'm more of a thinker than a feeler, I'm easily overwhelmed by too much stimuli and chaos. I grew up in Southern California and as soon as I left home, I gravitated toward rural settings to get away from crowds and cities. I'm very content in nature and if I don't see a human all day, other than my husband, I'm just fine. Interestingly enough, I recently got my DNA analyzed and I found out that a variant in one gene leads to getting overwhelmed, in exactly the way I described.

That said, my husband's negativity, anxiety, and depression affects me deeply and until I landed here, I unsuccessfully tried to change him, to make myself feel better.

Now that my previous strategy didn't work, I now do something entirely different when he's displaying emotions that I find disconcerting. I stay away, both physically and emotionally. I do the minimum to let him know that I'm listening and I care, and then I exit, and do something self-soothing, whether it be a project, hanging out with one of the animals, working out, doing something creative or fun.

I previously thought it was callous to behave this way, but now my relationship has greatly improved since I'm no longer trying to fix him.

When he's in a good mood, I fully enjoy him.

Much simpler than what I used to do.

[Aurylian]

Thanks Cat.  I think that is the best I can do and hope for.  It would be great to have a mate that understands me or even tries to, but that just isn't reality. 

Maybe I have the same gene.  I hate being in crowded locations.  Santa Monica is my nightmare.

I will continue to take hikes and get out when I can, and try to always have a project alive in my shop to work on. 

[formflier]

Now that my previous strategy didn't work, I now do something entirely different when he's displaying emotions that I find disconcerting. I stay away, both physically and emotionally. I do the minimum to let him know that I'm listening and I care, and then I exit, and do something self-soothing, whether it be a project, hanging out with one of the animals, working out, doing something creative or fun.

I previously thought it was callous to behave this way, but now my relationship has greatly improved since I'm no longer trying to fix him.

When he's in a good mood, I fully enjoy him.

Much simpler than what I used to do.

Standing an applauding!  

 Aurylian

Has what you have been doing been "working"?  Are YOU satisfied with your relationship after seeing the impact of your decisions?  (yes..put blinders on...this is about you)

I'm hoping for a yes or no answer, but if it is "It depends"...go ahead an share details.  The goal here is to get to "simple answers" upon which we will help you craft YOUR strategy going forward.

Here is my observation..please confirm or correct it.  You have obviously tried a number of different things, but it appears her various behaviors have led you to believe those efforts were unsuccessful and you returned to your "baseline"... (baseline being what she is used to).

Is that a correct observation?

What percentage of your relationship was "enjoyable" ...lets say 5 and 10 years ago.  Compare that to now.  (so..three different answers, although they all may be the same...again your take on this, not anyone else's)

Last:  I'm still trying to grasp how her "memory" is the driving force?  Especially if you have objective proof (which seems obvious you have).  Is there any reason other than her behavior for you to accede to her memory?

Best,

FF

[Aurylian]

Here is my observation..please confirm or correct it.  You have obviously tried a number of different things, but it appears her various behaviors have led you to believe those efforts were unsuccessful and you returned to your "baseline"... (baseline being what she is used to).

Is that a correct observation?

What percentage of your relationship was "enjoyable" ...lets say 5 and 10 years ago.  Compare that to now.  (so..three different answers, although they all may be the same...again your take on this, not anyone else's)

Last:  I'm still trying to grasp how her "memory" is the driving force?  Especially if you have objective proof (which seems obvious you have).  Is there any reason other than her behavior for you to accede to her memory?

It is complicated, but let's see.

I have tried many things including marital counseling.  The more I try the bigger the down swings are.  A couple of these got close to physical violence, but never got there.  That would be my exit if it happened.  

One old example was her going out of her way to ask why I couldn't be more like a certain passive husband she knows.  Around the same time she asked "I don't see how the church can let a person help lead music who abuses his wife."  :-(.  Abuse = not doing everything she wanted.  I asked the question I never should have asked (to be fair, this was before the BPD diagnosis and all that I learned) "It sounds like you really don't respect me."  She said "yes".  At that point sex was challenging as she refuses to initiate so it all sits in my lap.  I told her that I don't know how I could have sex with someone who doesn't respect me.  So, we didn't for months.  Let's just say that didn't go so well and was probably the lowest point for us both.

The up side is usually relatively flat and non-existent.  So, accepting her for who she is and just taking care of myself has become the most successful strategy.  The biggest challenges to this approach is that it doesn't help the mommy-daughters conflicts (long additional story) and sex has been an obligation to keep her regulated, rather than what it would ideally be.  It's also sad that she appears to want more closeness, but doesn't have a clue how to act on her side to help get it.  

% enjoyment?  When we were first married she was very easy-going and respectful.  Then about 17 years ago, with the birth of D2 and her Dad's issues, it all started falling apart.  This likely also coincided with with me desiring to be part of the relationship rather than just deferring on everything. From that point on it was hell for seven years leading to counseling.  In a solo session I told the T that I thought I was going crazy because of the alternate realities we were believing.  That's when the T told me about BPD.  I had never heard of it.  That was ten years ago.  

To answer the question, 17 years ago until 10 years ago it was completely awful and chaotic.  When I found out about BPD, it made a huge difference to me because I could finally understand what was going on and learned and used the tools to great success--in terms of shortening the lowest points.  The high points remained elusive.  For the last five years I have been focused on protecting our daughters (all teens).  Any show of emotion from them and it triggers their mom, so they know they cannot cry or be upset around her.  So, I get to be their mom and their dad.  D2 has some genetic overlap with my W and I was extremely worried that the frequent/constant invalidation of emotions would lead her down the path to BPD.  I worked with her very hard on identifying and understanding her emotions and validating them.  We seemed to have passed the point of concern now and I am confident she won't follow her mother's path--even though many challenges remain.  Some of the absolute worst and painful experiences I have had in the last ten years have been family vacations.  Almost to the point of removing them as an option.  

So, now?  This is going to sound harsh, and it pains me to say it, but if I wasn't married, I would not spend any time around my W.  The sweetness and respectful nature she had when we met is completely gone (for more than 15 years).  It is replaced by almost constant gossip and complaining about almost everything.  Unfortunately for me she has no close friends as at some point they usually do something opposed to her beliefs and she erases them, because the opposition means one of the them is right and one is wrong, and we all know who is right.  I am not speaking with hyperbole when I say that any conversation lasting more than three minutes ends with her complaining about our girls, our house, her acquaintances or co-workers, or most often a zinger at me.  I'm sure on some level she is testing me, but I'm too exhausted to try and pass the constant testing.  Exhausting is the best word to describe our relationship.  Our most successful activity is watching a romantic comedy, although this is often followed by "see, that is all I want."  I took her on a hike this weekend, and it was unfortunately as I expected, filled with complaints and criticisms of people she knows, and very little enjoying nature.  So, things that keep her attention occupied and don't allow for conversation are the most successful.  

Memory: I don't necessarily accede to her memory, we just get stuck a lot and have got end conversations with "well, we just remember it differently."  A variation of this is my W criticizing someone, even friends, who made a certain decision, or has a certain belief, and I am not bothered by their decision like she is.  She sees this as me intentionally being difficult, because the idea that anyone could really see it another way from her doesn't compute.  So, this ends with "well, we just see it differently."

Our girls face the same issue, but they don't have the agency at this point to just agree to disagree.  Sadly, they look forward to being out of the house and D3 is very nervous about a little over one year from now when she will be the only one left at home.  They are very close to each other, which helps a lot.

I am trying to focus on living one day at a time and taking care of myself, and trying to be there for our girls.  I try not to think too much about what happens when the last one goes to college and I get 100% of the focus on me.
 

[formflier]

Hey...on the sex thing you were the one that "drew the line"...right?

And then without her saying she respects you, you went back to having sex..right?


Listen, I'm all for getting into details, but it's important to get the principle. 

Do you react to her or does she react to you? 

That was the massive change in my r/s.  My wife doesn't like it and often complains and I will from time to time offer a healthy solution with accountability...which she shrinks from.

So I go on living my life and making decisions...inviting her along but not "waiting for her".

Guess what...she makes more decisions now than she used to, I enjoy my relationship more and the "downsides" are much shorter.

My "gut" tells me there is upside to your situation, but we both know there will be a rough road to get there.

Oh..and the response to abuse is she doesn't get her way..."Oh"..or "Perhaps"...or

Do you want to stick around for a while and pick a couple of things for a "tune up"?

Best,

FF

[Aurylian]

Hey...on the sex thing you were the one that "drew the line"...right?

     Yes.

And then without her saying she respects you, you went back to having sex..right?

     Unfortunately, yes.


Listen, I'm all for getting into details, but it's important to get the principle. 

Do you react to her or does she react to you? 

     I do my own things and let her do hers.  I guess she reacts to me. Honestly, I avoid interactions a lot, so they happen as required for decisions, etc.

So I go on living my life and making decisions...inviting her along but not "waiting for her".

     Yes, I mostly do what I want and invite her at times unless I'm trying to get away.
My "gut" tells me there is upside to your situation, but we both know there will be a rough road to get there.

     I have gone through this scenario so many times--convincing myself that short term pain will lead to long term gain--but seen it fail every time, or accomplish something for a day, and then be gone by the next day.

I will continue to brush up on my stuff, but the main struggle is just trying to find out if there is any way for me to find some redeeming quality or upside.  I hate the thought that I'm riding this out until the kids are out of the house, but if I look that far down the road that is what I see. 

[Cat Familiar]

I wasn't too optimistic about arriving at a point where I'd once again feel content in my marriage, but it has happened. And oddly enough, it occurred when I quit trying.

It was almost as if my attempts to make things better were felt by him on a psychic level as pressure and he was reacting from some version of oppositional defiance.

It's been a good example of less is more.

[formflier]

 

I appreciate it will people "try" to improve things with me, so I have a hard time understanding people that "run from that".  However I have come to accept that people really are like that.

Best,

FF

[Aurylian]

I have been thinking about my original question more and think I phrased it incorrectly.  It really is more about me than my wife.  The primary question is how does someone who is strongly empathetic, and wired to absorb the emotions of others cope when surrounded by frequent negative venting.

In what was said above I think the best that can be done is limit exposure and have positive places to go/be/work to recharge.  I don't think there is a magic pill to solve the issue.  Radical acceptance helps me understand that I cannot change the external influence, only my relationship to it, and how I take care of myself otherwise.  I can keep exposure reasonable, and if it becomes overwhelming, then I can deal with it at that point. But I'm not there yet.

[formflier]

The primary question is how does someone who is strongly empathetic, and wired to absorb the emotions of others cope when surrounded by frequent negative venting.

In what was said above I think the best that can be done is limit exposure and have positive places to go/be/work to recharge. 

  I can keep exposure reasonable

You've got the answer, yet there is still some flawed thinking...IMO.

Why allow "reasonable" access to your ears of hurtful things.

(example of flawed thinking) "Babe..I've decided you aren't going to be able to hurt me as much as you used to..."

I do agree that it's impossible to 100% insulate yourself.  I would argue that you use high 90s as your goal.  You have to be able to listen enough to determine if there is a dysregulation...once you figure that out.  Go do something else.

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

The primary question is how does someone who is strongly empathetic, and wired to absorb the emotions of others cope when surrounded by frequent negative venting.

As I mentioned previously, I’m both a Thinker and a Feeler, and I’ve moved more towards Thinking in recent years. When my doctor informed me about my DNA results, she told me that one gene variant inclined me to be extremely empathetic and that I feel both positive and negative emotions more deeply than average.

I think, due to that trait, that I’ve gravitated more towards Thinking than Feeling, because it’s just too easy for me to feel overwhelmed, and Thinking gives me a sense of being at least somewhat in control of external circumstances.

When I did the Meyers Briggs sessions years ago, I was told that these traits are much like being right handed or left handed. We can do both parts of the spectrum, but we have a preference for one modality.

Because of living all my life with at least one pwBPD, I believe I’ve made a conscious choice to deemphasize Feeling and focus more on Thinking. I do allow myself to return to Feeling when the ambient surroundings are placid and safe, and as soon as that changes, I’m back to Thinking.