Is BPD contagious?

[BuildingFromScratch]

Okay, I know it's not really contagious. But right after the breakup I remember feeling pretty worthless, having big mood swings, like I didn't know myself, and felt empty often. Symptoms of BPD.

Also, about 2 years ago my counselor had trouble diagnosing me with anything, so he picked BPD because I have a shifting/unstable sense of self, and feelings of emptiness, and unexplained changes in mood.

Thing is I feel like those things can be symptoms of other things, difficult childhood, depression, trauma, etc. I really feel like I was misdiagnosed because I'm not prone to black and white thinking, I don't go around controlling everyone and manipulating them, my mood swings don't cause me to lash out. I'm a very rational person and I'm not prone to delusions.

I have my issues though. I guess some of us have some BPD traits? I feel like some of mine are due to the relationship though... All that projection and devaluation caused me to sort of feel how she felt.

PS: Don't be scared of my diagnosis, I really think I was misdiagnosed, my counselor was grasping at straws on what to diagnose me with after 4 weeks of being at a loss.

[grumpydonut]

You are a BPD and must be exorcised.

But seriously, I'm not an expert, but I have read that the symptoms of BPD are similar to those in someone with trauma.

I too have questioned myself post break up, as I found I was reacting like her, and having the same internal conflicts you described.

It's not contagious, it's that you are traumatised. That would be my very unprofessional diagnosis

[BuildingFromScratch]

You are a BPD and must be exorcised.

But seriously, I'm not an expert, but I have read that the symptoms of BPD are similar to those in someone with trauma.

I too have questioned myself post break up, as I found I was reacting like her, and having the same internal conflicts you described.

It's not contagious, it's that you are traumatised. That would be my very unprofessional diagnosis

I know right? I try not to be prejudice, but I sometimes find myself being prejudice against people with BPD, because I see all the harm they cause.

As for my diagnosis, I don't think it should be taken at face value. No other counselor has diagnosed me with it, and I'm 39. He was leaving the practice, and had a terrible time diagnosing me, and once he picked BPD, I was about ready to go along with anything. I was horrified when he said that, but at the same time I felt beaten down by his 4-6 weeks of trying to diagnose me, since the guy was super meticulous. I guess I do see some similarities with myself and BPD, but only a small handful to be honest.

Felt like saying that here was like saying I'm a Nazi. Can't really blame people if they don't trust me/have some prejudice against me right now, when they've been betrayed and hurt in the most personal and deep way.

[grumpydonut]

Look at yourself before the trauma of the relationship. Did you have these BPD traits then? I have a fear of abandonment, but only when actually being devalued in a relationship. I don't actively look for it and sabotage relationships, and I have no problem with real intimacy. I can't just disengage with someone I love within a day...but I can exhibit silly, impulsive and needy behaviours when being emotionally abused by an abuser...

Is this the same for you?

[BuildingFromScratch]

Yeah I don't think I was overly jealous and controlling because of abandonment fears. I was actually going to break up with her, when she went crazy and abused the crap out of me until I didn't know which direction up was.

I think I did have some abandonment issues though, and self destructive issues, and issues with impulse control pre relationship. I did break things off with some women who I was friends with in a crappy way a few times. I was needy towards women.

However, pre relationship I had like 7 friends who I connected with well and maintained those friendships for many years. I had a lot of fun in life. Life wasn't some living hell, although sometimes it was pretty rough, I had my issues. Don't have any of those friends left.

During the relationship I definitely became more needy, more afraid of abandonment, I think my self esteem was just so in the gutter from being treated how I was being treated that I became desperate.

Right after the relationship I remember feeling so worthless and alone, I felt like there was something severely wrong with me, I was super emotional and would lash out a lot.

Now a days I feel disconnected from myself sometimes, have a lot of difficulty trusting people/connecting to people, feel more depression, etc. I've recovered a lot, so it's not ALL the time now, but those are still some issues I deal with.

[grumpydonut]

You sound very similar to me.

I'm currently in therapy (5th session coming up) and looking to work through issues that this relationship has drawn to the surface.

Maybe that's the way? I don't know, obviously, as I'm not out of the smoke.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi guys-

Mind if I join you?  I have traits, too.  And I have some thoughts here.  Maybe we can help one another?

Gemsforeyes

[grumpydonut]

It's fine with me.

What do you want to share?

[BuildingFromScratch]

Go for it Gemsforeyes

[once removed]

a lot of us here have bpd traits. a lot of us here have traits of NPD, other mood disorders, or personality disorders.

one very sobering statistic is that 50% of romantic partners of someone with BPD have a personality disorder themselves.

i dont know the answer to the question as to whether or not you have BPD. i can say that i experienced a lot of the same experience you did, in the aftermath of the breakup, that i dont have BPD, but that i had an awful lot of things i needed to examine, that were not about, or as a result of my ex.

youve listed childhood trauma and depression, and on some level, you identify with bpd traits. isnt the question: "i have these issues, and im struggling. what can i do about it?"

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi there -

I agree with OR regarding many members seeming to have “traits” of various mood or personality disorders.  However, seeing the statistic that 50% of people in romantic relationships with pwBPD as having enough traits to actually BE diagnosable is somewhat alarming.

I’ve frequently seen posts on the site where people admit to their own issues, or behaviors within a relationship; while others sadly seem blind to their own frailties, ignore the advice they’ve asked for and throw emotional daggers toward their partner.   The venting and a safe place to do that ARE needed... but then what, right?

I’m one of those who CLEARLY failed to see my own negative impact for a long time.  But this relationship and reading / studying on this site, along with REALLY journaling how I’d react to things my BF was doing and saying/SCREAMING woke me up...BIG TIME.  In a very scary way.  Woke me to the undeniable fact that I have some BPD traits.  And he’s more of a narcissist with nearly a complete absence of compassion.  It became HARD to look at him, and becomes more difficult daily to even THINK about him.  That’s how little I think of myself for staying with such a deceitful and hostile being.  And then I stop myself, like now... and say “Gems, healing is NOT about hating yourself.  Those days are over.  He’s gone now”.

I understand many of the reasons for my traits.  They’re crystal clear to me.  But what’s NOT clear to me is that I have sought therapy several times in the life.  Both individual therapy and with my exH when we were married.  And no one, EVER, even when I BEGGED to know what was *WRONG* with me, ever referred to any personality disorder!  Or ANY diagnosis of any type.   And I was honest about the severity of the traumas from my past.  I’m 62 now.

And to further confound things?  When I first started with my most recent T almost 2 years ago and was discussing my now exuBPD/NPDbf, she said she *HATES* working with BPD people.  Won’t knowingly do it...   AND she said “YOU clearly don’t have any of those traits“.  Yea, so well over a year later when I pointed out to her that I believed I had some BPD traits, she said I think “you’re right”.  And then, she pulled back from me.  Really pulled back.  Would “forget” what we talked about, not follow up on things she said she’d look into, blah blah.  It’s not good when your T disassociates more than you do!  She seemed to be “done”.  So okay, I decided to “split her” and leave.   I thought it through and realized she didn’t have the depth to help me recover from the kind of abuse I’d been through; and she didn’t have the tools to deal with a PwBPD traits.  On my own was a better way to go in this moment.

And I’m strong enough to do it on my own most days now.  I’m 5 months out, and I began Detaching about 3 months before our relationship ended.

I’d like to talk more about meeting/facing/processing your own traits and behaviors.  Both those you face internally and those that may  leak or splash out.  How I do that (right or wrong?, don’t know).  And not being afraid of facing those.  I actually started writing about that last night, but it led to way too much writing and emotionally/ logically processing ALL night... an unplanned mental pregnancy!  So I hope you want to do that?

Your thoughts so far?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[grumpydonut]

For me, my issues stem from a lack of self worth. I have never felt normal and have never felt like I truly belonged. I'm working through those feelings with my therapist now and it may stem from my parents' divorce when I was 5. I think this is also why I have always idealised the idea of a true family. And why it hurts so much when I am rejected in a relationship. I don't know.

As for the relationship with my BPD. I honestly didn't do anything wrong UNTIL she cheated on me. I treated her respectfully and tried to help her towards goals and stability. After the cheating, I was triggered. I reverted back to a little, lost child who "wasn't manly enough" to keep or deserve a woman. About once every two months, I would rant at my girlfriend via text when she did something to trigger me. I'd say some pretty vile things about her cheating on me. This wasn't justified, but the cheating was the REASON (again, no justification).

And then she became more abusive and started to manipulate me. I became more and more attached, even though each time she did something stupid I'd feel like it was another burden or weight to carry (and internally I knew I couldn't marry this person). But it was no longer about her, it was about my need to be loved and feel validated (something she stole from me when she cheated).

So alas, here I am. Feeling worthless and "bad", as if I will never truly be enough for any woman. But again, that's not her fault and she isn't the cause. She merely triggered me through a very selfish act and made it 100x worse when she told me she loved me but couldn't be in a relationship, only to instantly get into a relationship with the guy she cheated on me with 9 months earlier and told me not to worry about / she didn't like / it meant nothing.

[BuildingFromScratch]

Once removed: Agreed, the main thing is what can we do about our own issues?

Gemsforeyes: I mean, I can see why some therapists would have difficulty with people who have BPD, because often people who have BPD are super combative, start blaming the therapist and are just generally resistant to therapy. That being said, if your therapist is so brittle that she can't handle your issues and shuts down, then that's not a very good therapist. There are plenty of therapists that can deal with people who have BPD and people who have BPD traits.

It doesn't make us bad people for staying with them, but it does mean we probably have a lot of issues, especially codependency issues and issues with self esteem.

I dunno, for me, I'm not gonna overly think about each trait, but if I see the root of the problem, like childhood abandonment, being too hard on myself (which makes it hard to admit when I do something wrong), or a lack of self esteem, I will address that. Unless I am treating others poorly, I don't need to work on specific behaviors.

[Cromwell]

Unless I am treating others poorly, I don't need to work on specific behaviors.

If a third party was to ask your ex, "did BuildingFromScratch ever treat you poorly?" what might you expect she would answer?

[BuildingFromScratch]

Oh I definitely abused her back and she knows that. Mostly due to immature attitudes, retaliation, neediness, insecurity, fear of abandonment, etc. I've gone over my mistakes many times and I never want to repeat them, I never want to stay with someone who mistreats me, or is this mentally ill again.

I actually spent so much time on focusing on my mistakes, I actually think I need to focus on the hurt she caused me now, a lot of it feels unresolved because I was way too understanding with her, and about her (post break up) and not understanding with myself enough. And I find a lot of people who are in BPD relationships do this. (aren't understanding enough with ourselves and are codependent by giving others all of our understanding)

[once removed]

I agree with OR regarding many members seeming to have “traits” of various mood or personality disorders.  However, seeing the statistic that 50% of people in romantic relationships with pwBPD as having enough traits to actually BE diagnosable is somewhat alarming.

it is.

to be clear: most of the exes described on this board would not reach the threshold for a clinical diagnosis. likewise, most of us wouldnt either. mind you, thats most. there are members here with diagnosed exes. there are members here with their own diagnoses.

more accurately, most of the exes here have traits of BPD, or another personality or mood disorder. and a lot of us have traits of something or another, too. youre looking at a world where 1/3 people, at any given time, experience some form of mental illness, whether it be something like depression/anxiety, or a full blown personality disorder.

a lot of us here identify with traits of codependency. if you look at the traits of codependency (codependency is not technically recognized by the dsm), they look very similar to bpd.

diagnoses aside, we were one half of a dysfunctional relationship. there are lessons in that, about us, to be learned.

I actually think I need to focus on the hurt she caused me now

focusing on what we want to learn, about ourselves, about our role in the relationship breakdown, to take into future relationships, is a latter stage of Detaching (3rd stage).

theres a reason its the 3rd stage, and not the first.

when your self esteem is crashing, when some 80% of us come here clinically depressed, and experiencing the cognitive distortions of depression, theres not a lot of headroom between "im examining myself in a critical light" and "im the worst person in the world and everything is all my fault".

the good news is that you can see a lot of this, painful as it is. thats going to help a great deal, down the road. its something you cant really unsee, and most of us find that some of these issues refuse to be ignored, and rear their heads down the road.

for me? it wasnt really about treating others poorly. i had immature ideas about relationships (of all kinds), about life, about myself in relation to others. that sort of reinforced a dissatisfying life, and i didnt always cope with it in the best of ways. i didnt know what i didnt know.

[BuildingFromScratch]

Once removed:

Yeah I kinda feel like I skipped some steps here. I do want to come out of this more mature and wise.

Anyways, thanks for your response, I found it helpful.

[Cromwell]

Hi BFS

I felt so happy to hear your list of "I wants".

Comes across as assertive, powerful, someone who has a clear idea of separation from what they think they actually ,need, versus what they ,want ,in a relationship.

Hope you dont mind me saying but I couldnt help but be moved by it. Best wishes.

[once removed]

hows it going BFS?

Yeah I kinda feel like I skipped some steps here.

what step are you feeling like youre on?

[BuildingFromScratch]

Hey Cromwell:

Thanks, it's true I have a lot more self respect now and expect certain things from people. Not gonna put up with being treated like crap anymore. Mostly by not staying/putting myself in those situations. Used to let desperation be my guide, and that worked out poorly. Also want to grow as a person.

Once removed:

I feel like I've already worked through a lot of the feelings about feeling a sense of loss at losing the relationship and her, I don't long for her whatsoever now. I'm pretty far out from the breakup though, something like 7-8 years. Now a days it's less about that, and mostly about the damage the relationship caused me.

I'm doing okay, I'm mostly feeling blind anger. At least I'm not feeling intense hatred and extremely degrading and violent thoughts like I was a couple months ago. It mostly affects me at night, I guess because I lay down and relax and then the emotions tend to flood me. Often I feel very betrayed and feel a sense of disbelief about the fact that she did the things she did, I feel a sense of grief about what the relationship costed me.

Logically, I know she was severely mentally ill, had a horrible childhood, was a victim of sexual abuse, etc. But I still feel a lot of personal feelings about it all. I feel like I was abused, controlled, manipulated and disregarded.

During the day when I am more busy, I tend to not worry about it too much. I'm not averse to posting here, just haven't had a lot of new stuff going on and didn't feel like posting the same gripes over and over.

Thanks for checking in with me though!

[FindingMe2011]

Also want to grow as a person.

This is what will take you there. I remember seeing your name, reading your posts, thinking he should rename his screen name to "Building a bigger base". It would be more appropriate.

I feel like I was abused, controlled, manipulated and disregarded.

You were, but this was not the first time.

I'm not averse to posting here, just haven't had a lot of new stuff going on and didn't feel like posting the same gripes over and over.

There not same old gripes, its you speaking to you, looking for understanding. Keep posting till you understand. I wish you well, Peace

[BuildingFromScratch]

FindingMe:

Yeah, my screen name is old, I made it back when I was pretty low. I don't think it's fitting anymore, and I don't really like it anymore.

Yeah, obviously my childhood going the way it did, is the reason I put up with/got into/stayed in a relationship with a girl who has severe BPD and who knows what else, maybe NPD?

It's true, I can share more than I have been, I guess I need to give myself more permission to do that. That being said, I also just don't feel the need or have the desire to post all the time. I like to post when either, I have it in me to try to help someone, or when I feel like I need someone who understands what I am going through and can offer encouragement/support and occasional advice.

[FindingMe2011]

I like to post when either, I have it in me to try to help someone,

Helping others is in your DNA, you just invest in the wrong people. Just needs a tweek. Those replying are also getting something. For me its maintenance. To be done in some form or another till the day I die. There is no finish line.

It's true, I can share more than I have been, I guess I need to give myself more permission to do that.

Same could be said of myself at one point. It takes time, but being genuinely kind and forgiving to myself didnt come easy. Focus on the now, its all that you can control.

That being said, I also just don't feel the need or have the desire to post all the time.

Changing behavior is taxing, and this is fine. We can only take in what we can take in. No more, no less. We are all different, yet in more ways the same..I found if I didnt stay on it, it crept ed back in, to some degree. I wish you well, Peace


P.S.- You can change the name then a.k.a. "Building from Scratch" will appear below. Much more fitting

[FindingMe2011]

I don't think it's fitting anymore, and I don't really like it anymore.

This would show growth and the ability to change your truth. More of this will be needed. Its one of the few times I would agree with a need.

[juju2]

this is an interesting discussion.

after living w pwBPD, seeing it up close,
it's scary, the rages, 0-60 temper.
Those days became less and less.
Now that we are separated, I don't see a lot of pathology.

I am present to I need to work on myself.
The only person I have any chance of changing.
have been reading on relationships, what it must have.  It is trust, respect, affection.
Out of those come a fulfilling experience.
If i can be aware, if trust, respect, or affection, are being lessened, what is my part in that...
thank you all for being here.
juju

[BuildingFromScratch]

Oh, thanks finding me, I'll change it then. I briefly looked into it and figured it wasn't possible.

Edit: Odd, I can't find how to edit it. For some reason on my settings and account related settings pages, it has no option to edit it. Maybe it has something to do with me editing it in the past? And it only allows you to change it once?

Thanks for the encouragement.

[FindingMe2011]

Thanks for the encouragement.

Youre welcome. If you look at your path you have taken, you should genuinely be able to look to yourself and see the growth, that has happened. Probably not as much as you want(imagine this) but its more than you think and deserves recognition. So learn how to feel genuinely happy for you, you yearn for this,  and more importantly deserve this.When it feels as if you are taking steps back. Its you telling you, you missed something. You need to become inquisitive not frustrated. This is the past Building from Scratch. The better Building is going to stumble some along the way. Be kind and forgiving to you...When I dont visit here for a while, sometimes I have to start a new membership. This would cause you to lose old threads. ( I used to go back and read, it also showed my progress) So maybe shout out to a moderator and see what they could do. Worth a shot, and a small donation if possible. This place was one of my first stops on my journey. I am grateful also. I wish you well, Peace

[FindingMe2011]

Now that we are separated, I don't see a lot of pathology.

Clarity in my eyes. Sometimes clarity doesnt bring the best of feelings. Yet its the kind and forgiving thing to do for yourself. Keep doing this and watch the negative feelings fade. Be patient.

It is trust, respect, affection.

If you genuinely find these in yourself. A relationship is not NEEDED. You have you, it can then be pursued in wise mind as a WANT.

If i can be aware,

Should say, "As I become MORE aware" dont doubt yourself on this. I see the awareness blossoming. I wish you well, Peace