Fear of anger

[Depression = 72% of members]

I am afraid of anger. Terrified really. It's completely irrational and blown way out of proportion to the consequences. I know this in calm moments, but when emotionally heated situations arise some primal part of me takes over. I freeze, my heart pounds, my muscles tense, my anxiety goes into overdrive. A glare is enough to set me off. Even the thought of making someone angry gets me worried.

I struggle with accepting anger within myself. I cram it down where it simmers and ferments. This is not healthy. My T says that I "turn on myself" by dismissing my feelings, self-shaming, downplaying situations, etc.

Where did this originate? I grew up with an alcoholic father and a uBPD mother. I learned that my feelings weren't valid. I was emotionally manipulated and on very rare occasions physically punished. I grew up to be the overachieving perfectionist that NEVER got in trouble. I became hypersensitive to the emotional state of others, especially mom, and have spent a good portion of my time and energy trying to "manage" situations and keep everyone on an even keel.

I realize now that keeping the peace at all costs has robbed me off my sense of self and my self respect. I'm trying to figure out what I value, get better in touch with my feelings, and am starting to set boundaries. I'm trying to be mindful in moments of stress, to observe my reactions and not get carried away by them. I don't think I'll ever completely eliminate this flight/fight/freeze response but with hard work I will be able to better manage it. *sigh*

Does anyone have similar experiences? Have you found ways to cope?

[curious quandary]

I am afraid of anger. Terrified really. It's completely irrational and blown way out of proportion to the consequences. I know this in calm moments, but when emotionally heated situations arise some primal part of me takes over. I freeze, my heart pounds, my muscles tense, my anxiety goes into overdrive. A glare is enough to set me off. Even the thought of making someone angry gets me worried.

I struggle with accepting anger within myself. I cram it down where it simmers and ferments. This is not healthy. My T says that I "turn on myself" by dismissing my feelings, self-shaming, downplaying situations, etc.

Where did this originate? I grew up with an alcoholic father and a uBPD mother. I learned that my feelings weren't valid. I was emotionally manipulated and on very rare occasions physically punished. I grew up to be the overachieving perfectionist that NEVER got in trouble. I became hypersensitive to the emotional state of others, especially mom, and have spent a good portion of my time and energy trying to "manage" situations and keep everyone on an even keel.

I realize now that keeping the peace at all costs has robbed me off my sense of self and my self respect. I'm trying to figure out what I value, get better in touch with my feelings, and am starting to set boundaries. I'm trying to be mindful in moments of stress, to observe my reactions and not get carried away by them. I don't think I'll ever completely eliminate this flight/fight/freeze response but with hard work I will be able to better manage it. *sigh*

Does anyone have similar experiences? Have you found ways to cope?

[zachira]

You are not alone in learning how to deal with the anger of having your feelings disrespected by your disordered family members. I find it helps to get in touch with the sadness behind my anger and let myself cry deeply.

[pursuingJoy]

Thanks for starting this post, curious! This topic interests me.  My H (who has a BPD mom) can be spitting mad about something his ex or my daughter did, but he will insist on calling it 'frustration.' He will go a step further and say, "You've never seen me angry, and you don't want to. A switch flips, and you won't like it."  It sounds ominous but I don't feel threatened because he looks terrified when he says it. This is a piece of him I haven't been able to wrap my head around yet.

I freeze, my heart pounds, my muscles tense, my anxiety goes into overdrive.

I can relate to this.  My family orbited around my NPD dad. Conflict, individuality, and independence were prohibited. My body responds the same way to potential threats and I am conflict averse, flight all the way.

I struggle with accepting anger within myself. I cram it down where it simmers and ferments. This is not healthy. My T says that I "turn on myself" by dismissing my feelings, self-shaming, downplaying situations, etc.

I learned that my feelings weren't valid. I was emotionally manipulated and on very rare occasions physically punished. I grew up to be the overachieving perfectionist that NEVER got in trouble. I became hypersensitive to the emotional state of others, especially mom, and have spent a good portion of my time and energy trying to "manage" situations and keep everyone on an even keel.

This fascinates me and seems to be where being raised by an NPD is different than being raised by a BPD.

I existed to serve the family unit, but it felt more more utilitarian. Dad would parade us around to impress people and get more funding for the mission. We were punished when we violated the family code, which was to make it him look good at all times.

I can't quite figure out when or how, but somewhere along the line, H became responsible for MIL's emotional well being. More than that, H feels what MIL feels, not because he's trying or wants to. It's just a reality.

H insists she was the perfect mother. She's done only two things that hurt his feelings: 1. MIL quit speaking to him for almost a week when he told her he got a girl pregnant. 2. When he cheated on his ex-wife, MIL told everyone, everything.

At 46, he seems afraid of her, or maybe it's losing her, or losing himself...I can't put my finger on it. Her anger scares him. I get that part. His own anger scares him, or maybe he doesn't feel like he has permission to feel anger. I'm trying to understand that.

[Goldcrest]

Oh how I relate to this. For years my therapist told me that she suspects I am very angry but all I could feel was fear and anxiety. I would do everything I could to avoid "getting in to trouble" and would worry constantly that someone was angry with me. I think my mothers rage towards me as a child was annihilating. I spent my life then trying to keep anyone and everyone from getting angry with me and I would freeze if someone did. I noticed too that if I was in a situation a person would usually feel angry in, I would cry, crying was like my anger. A sort of helpless, frustrated response. I think I felt like I had no "right" to be angry, I found it hard to stand my ground and protect myself.

After years of really crippling anxiety and fears I got to a point in my life where I started to see people were taking advantage of me a lot and that I was at times leaking what was actually anger. In a passive/aggressive way. Messing stuff up with my work, to a point where I was getting in to situations that would piss people off. As if I was courting it. So I started to validate my emotions more and risk disappointing people. Risk them getting angry. Particularly my husband who also has issues with feeling anger.

I have done a massive cull of the people in my life that don't value me. I have also tried to be more honest with people. Tell them when I am unhappy with how I am being treated. Often they haven't liked this and have ended the friendship...I am okay with this. Since going through the menopause I have naturally been more grumpy too and I love it! It's very liberating

[Harri]

anger is so tough to deal with.  I am much more comfortable with anger now than I was.  It used to be that i too would carry anger from the past into present situations and it messed things up for me.  A lot of it was my outer critic where I would react to things in the present based on experiences and feelings from the past.  Or my reaction to things today would be much greater given unresolved trauma and unhealed hurts from the past.  I would come up swinging, ready for a fight or I would resort to running for my life. 

By withdrawing emotionally, lashing out, putting people in their place, drawing lines in the sand where none was warranted, feeling like I had to speak my truth because I felt a certain way despite it really being related to something else, etc I made things far worse than they needed to be and quite frankly I acted in very unhealthy ways.   

I was shamed for feeling anger and for expressing it growing up and I was punished with mind games and manipulation.  On top of that, I was terrified with what I saw as anger in my mother  What i realize now is that my mother was not expressing anger so much as rage or extreme dysfunction, and yes, it would be annihilating to me, my sense of self and my healthy emotional development.  So I would ask you to see if you are confusing anger for rage or if unhealthy expressions of anger are influencing your view of it.

It has taken a while to be comfortable with my own anger, though I still do not like it... dammit!   I am better at dealing with the anger of others though and always have been , often picked to deal with the most difficult people at work... or maybe that was because people knew I was too dumb to say no, hard to tell. 

I too used to deny anger and say no I am just frustrated.  Anger was bad, it was scary and it meant I was like my mother.  No way, no how! 

One thing that helped me get comfortable was anger was to just sit with it, observe and tell myself anger was okay.  Trying to avoid it, run from it, deny it all amplified it.  Expressing it in the moment helped ensure it did not build to the point of exploding out of me or leaking out of me in situations where none was warranted or where a lesser degree of anger was warranted.  Also, remember I am fairly simple in my recovery strategies so i can focus, I would repeat that anger is just another emotion.  It is what i do with it that is the problem, whether that is to bury it to the point of denial or lashing out at others or anything in between. 

Those knee jerk reactions of fight, flight, freeze and occasional fawn are my legacy with which to deal.  Thanks mom and dad.  Regardless, they were/are mine to own.  It helps to know how we came to be who we are so we can move on and change what is not healthy.   

Haha, I once asked someone, anyone here to pick a fight with me so i could practice expressing my anger in a safe place. 

Do you have anyone you can work on it with in real life?  Or anyone you can safely take a risk with and say "Hey, I don't like that" and see where it goes?

[curious quandary]

Zachira, how do you get in touch with your sadness? Are you able to just feel sad and process the emotion? Is this something that comes naturally or have you had to work at it?

Similar to Goldcrest, I feel mostly different shades of fear and anxiety. I sense that there is hurt and sadness underneath it all but haven't been able to really tap into it. There have been times with the past few months that I wished I could cry deeply, to release the tension and feel that sense of peace that follows. I have worked so hard for so long to keep difficult feelings at bay that it will take some re-learning to reverse this.

“Trying to change how you feel is like finding a road sign that points in the opposite direction of where you had intended to go and getting out to try to turn the sign, rather than your course of action.”

https://thoughtcatalog.com/brianna-wiest/2015/01/what-the-feelings-you-most-suppress-are-trying-to-tell-you/

My H (who has a BPD mom) can be spitting mad about something his ex or my daughter did, but he will insist on calling it 'frustration.'

His own anger scares him, or maybe he doesn't feel like he has permission to feel anger. I'm trying to understand that.

I too used to deny anger and say no I am just frustrated.  Anger was bad, it was scary and it meant I was like my mother.  No way, no how! 

Yup. I've used that word quite a bit. For some reason being frustrated feels more acceptable than being angry. It's less volatile maybe? It could be a combination of reasons. First, not wanting to be like the disordered people in our lives – hurting others with our emotions. Second, not wanting others to react negatively to our feelings – matching our anger with their anger, making us feel like we're over-reacting and bad people for feeling the way we do. I suppose I've internalized those messages. I have a hard time accepting that I'm angry. I feel that If I am outwardly angry that I have somehow lost control over myself, and that's unacceptable.

This fascinates me and seems to be where being raised by an NPD is different than being raised by a BPD.

I existed to serve the family unit, but it felt more more utilitarian.

That's interesting PJ. Maybe “utilitarian” is the crux of it  Things never felt utilitarian for me growing up. It was a confusing environment. We were loved and cared for in addition to the manipulation and meltdowns. It's possible that I saw her love as a sign that she was a good person and her anger/disappointment/etc. as as sign that I wasn't. This is just a guess.

I can't quite figure out when or how, but somewhere along the line, H became responsible for MIL's emotional well being. More than that, H feels what MIL feels, not because he's trying or wants to. It's just a reality.

Yes, that... I feel responsible for mom's emotional wellbeing. I'm not entirely sure why. There's definitely FOG there. Maybe it was a matter of keeping the peace combined with not being allowed my own feelings. If the way I feel was “wrong,” then what was “right”? If I'm cramming my emotions down and you're overwhelming me with yours, do your emotions become mine over time? Maybe in your H's case, since he feels what she feels, in order for him to feel happy, he has to do whatever it takes to make her feel happy.

So I started to validate my emotions more and risk disappointing people. Risk them getting angry.

I have done a massive cull of the people in my life that don't value me. I have also tried to be more honest with people. Tell them when I am unhappy with how I am being treated.

Good for you Goldcrest. That is something that I'm striving for. How did you learn to trust your emotions? Did you ever have to work on differentiating between what you thought you felt and what you actually felt? Did you reach a point where you stopped caring about what people who didn't value you thought? That seems easier said than done but definitely the way to go.

That's funny about being grumpy and loving it! I have a few more years yet to be able to use menopause as an excuse...

What i realize now is that my mother was not expressing anger so much as rage or extreme dysfunction, and yes, it would be annihilating to me, my sense of self and my healthy emotional development.  So I would ask you to see if you are confusing anger for rage or if unhealthy expressions of anger are influencing your view of it.

Yes Harri, I have been labeling her dysfunctional reactions as anger and drawing broad conclusions based on that. That is a very good point. Reframing it that way helps.

One thing that helped me get comfortable was anger was to just sit with it, observe and tell myself anger was okay.  Trying to avoid it, run from it, deny it all amplified it.  Expressing it in the moment helped ensure it did not build to the point of exploding out of me or leaking out of me in situations where none was warranted or where a lesser degree of anger was warranted.

There is definitely value in being mindful during moments with difficult emotions like anger. How do you express it? Internally? By saying something?

Those knee jerk reactions of fight, flight, freeze and occasional fawn are my legacy with which to deal.  Thanks mom and dad.  Regardless, they were/are mine to own.

I've never heard of “fawn” being thrown into the mix before. That is definitely my coping mechanism of choice. “Yours to own” - how profound. I love that. By taking ownership of and not fighting or denying my past and current struggles I am able to start healing and making positive changes.

I recently talked about working with the hand I was dealt (regards to coping mechanisms) with my sister. She came back with “I have a pebble, a paperclip, and an animal cracker.” It became a running joke. Being able to laugh at the ridiculousness of it all has helped.

[zachira]

I get in touch with my sadness by being as present as I can, noticing what I am feeling inside and gently moving my body to loosen up tense areas. I do it while alternating between staying in one position for awhile and moving quietly with no music or outside distractions for 30-90 minutes.

[Harri]

Reframing it that way helps.

I'm glad it helps.  I suggest watching people when they express anger.  I also read books, watched movies (looking for more normal family type of movies based on recs from healthy people in my life) and I checked with people I thought had a good handle on healthy anger (my T, a friend, etc).  I did not know what healthy anger looked or sounded like or that it was even a possibility for me.  How can we learn something we can't even see or recognize right?

How do you express it? Internally? By saying something?

Thinking out loud here but I guess my first reaction is to get a handle on what is going on with me before anything else.  Not just in terms of what I am feeling but to help me determine if my anger is something I should share or something I keep to myself.   I will respond differently depending on what is going on.  If I am triggered I will respond differently than if I am angry based on current happenings for example.   

I have found that more often than not a long discussion is not really necessary to express my anger.  Sometimes a very direct and firm 'knock it off' works wonders.  Someone earlier said to allow yourself to make mistakes.  That too.  I have said 'knock it off' only to find that I was the one with the issue... oops.  That is the benefit of saying things in the moment.  If I let my anger build and mix with resentment over time, I say a lot more than knock it off, often digging a hole and making things very very bad.  Words used to be my weapon of choice when feeling threatened or hurt.  Not pretty.

I'be been very general as it is hard to think of all the ins and outs.  Can you tell us or a situation, right down to he said she said stuff, so we can talk some more?  I don't mean with your pwBPD as that is a lot more complex. 

I've never heard of “fawn” being thrown into the mix before. That is definitely my coping mechanism of choice.

Fawn as a response was new to me too until I started reading Pete Walker's stuff on c-PTSD specifically   The 4Fs: A Trauma Typology in Complex PTSD. 

Variances in the childhood abuse/neglect pattern, birth order, and genetic predispositions result in individuals "choosing" and specializing in narcissistic (fight), obsessive/compulsive (flight), dissociative (freeze) or codependent (fawn) defenses.
...

Individuals who experience "good enough parenting" in childhood arrive in adulthood with a healthy and flexible response repertoire to danger. In the face of real danger, they have appropriate access to all of their 4F choices. Easy access to the fight response insures good boundaries, healthy assertiveness and aggressive self-protectiveness if necessary. Untraumatized individuals also easily and appropriately access their flight instinct and disengage and retreat when confrontation would exacerbate their danger. They also freeze appropriately and give up and quit struggling when further activity or resistance is futile or counterproductive. And finally they also fawn in a liquid, "play-space" manner and are able to listen, help, and compromise as readily as they assert and express themselves and their needs, rights and points of view.

Those who are repetitively traumatized in childhood however, often learn to survive by over-relying on the use of one or two of the 4F Reponses. Fixation in any one 4F response not only delimits the ability to access all the others, but also severely impairs the individual's ability to relax into an undefended state, circumscribing him in a very narrow, impoverished experience of life. Over time a habitual 4F defense also "serves" to distract the individual from the accumulating unbearable feelings of her current alienation and unresolved past trauma.

The Fawn Type and the Codependent Defense
Fawn types seek safety by merging with the wishes, needs and demands of others. They act as if they unconsciously believe that the price of admission to any relationship is the forfeiture of all their needs, rights, preferences and boundaries. They often begin life like the precocious children described in Alice Miler's The Drama Of The Gifted Child, who learn that a modicum of safety and attachment can be gained by becoming the helpful and compliant servants of their parents. They are usually the children of at least one narcissistic parent who uses contempt to press them into service, scaring and shaming them out of developing a healthy sense of self: an egoic locus of self-protection, self-care and self-compassion. This dynamic is explored at length in my East Bay Therapist article (Jan/Feb2003): "Codependency, Trauma and The Fawn Response" (see www.pete-walker.com). TX. Fawn types typically respond well to being psychoeducated in this model. This is especially true when the therapist persists in helping them recognize and renounce the repetition compulsion that draws them to narcissistic types who exploit them. Therapy also naturally helps them to shrink their characteristic listening defense as they are guided to widen and deepen their self-expression. I have seen numerous inveterate codependents finally progress in their assertiveness and boundary-making work, when they finally got that even the thought of expressing a preference or need triggers an emotional flashback of such intensity that they completely dissociate from their knowledge of and ability to express what they want. Role-playing assertiveness in session and attending to the stultifying inner critic processes it triggers helps the codependent build a healthy ego. This is especially true when the therapist interprets, witnesses and validates how the individual as a child was forced to put to death so much of her individual self. Grieving these losses further potentiates the developing ego.

By taking ownership of and not fighting or denying my past and current struggles I am able to start healing and making positive changes.

Exactly!  It takes time to embrace and acknowledge our past and how it affects us in the present but it is so necessary.  The most empowering thing I ever came across for my recovery is this:

Existential Paradox from Dr. Joseph Santoro:
We are not responsible for how we came to be who we are as adults
but as adults we are responsible for whom we have become and for everything we say and do.
When I first read this about 16 years ago I felt anger and resentment but I kept going back to it turning it over and over in my head.  Over time, I began to see how empowering this saying is and it brings me comfort and helps me focus now.  Sure, how we came to be how we are is important to understand and honor ... but then what? 

I recently talked about working with the hand I was dealt (regards to coping mechanisms) with my sister. She came back with “I have a pebble, a paperclip, and an animal cracker.” It became a running joke. Being able to laugh at the ridiculousness of it all has helped.

hahahahaha  Love this!   A sense of humor is vital.  An old T used to get very serious the more silly and irreverent I became... but I saw the twinkle in his eyes on more than one occasion.   Humor has its place in recovery and healing for sure. 

[curious quandary]

Zachira, I will try that. I have been meditating daily but for much shorter durations. While it has  been helpful, I'm guessing the I'm not giving myself long enough for difficult emotions to emerge.

Harri, You absolutely blew my mind with Pete Walker's “Codependency, Trauma, and The Fawn Response.” That one article addressed just about everything my T and I have been talking about for the past 5 months! All of the puzzle pieces fit together. Wow... just wow.

PJ this may or may not apply to your H but it might give you some insight.
www.pete-walker.com/codependencyFawnResponse.htm

How can we learn something we can't even see or recognize right?

Very true. I will be on the lookout now for healthy expressions of anger. Similar to your suggestion for practicing expressing my anger (I keep wanting to say frustration), I think having people express their anger toward me, even if it's not “real” might be helpful. Just being able to experience how my body and mind responds in a safe environment may help.

Existential Paradox from Dr. Joseph Santoro:
We are not responsible for how we came to be who we are as adults
but as adults we are responsible for whom we have become and for everything we say and do.

I like that. I will write that down somewhere.

Can you tell us or a situation, right down to he said she said stuff, so we can talk some more?

I have tried so hard to prevent people from being angry with me that I don't have many non-pwBPD examples. Two come to mind though.

The first instance was when I was in college. I keep my hair short and don't dress overly feminine. I was walking out of the bathroom at a rest stop and a woman mistook me for a boy and started yelling at me. “How old are you? You should be ashamed of yourself! You're too old to be using the women's room!” I just stood there deer in headlights, feeling horrible. I had done nothing wrong. I should have said something.

The second instance I had tried to carry an expensive and cherished boat of a friend, that was far to heavy for me to manage, and scratched it. Again I froze (danger can sense movement?). He was a father figure and could have crushed me with his anger. I could see it in his eyes. I apologized and waited for the onslaught. He took a moment to calm down, told me to relax, and forgave me. He said that we needed to learn each other's boundaries and told me a story of how he had made a costly mistake at work and that they had told him that he would punish himself far worse than they ever could.

[zachira]

Yes, try meditating longer and see how it goes. You may need to do some mind-body work to get to your stored emotions and then maybe you won't need to.

[Goldcrest]

I guess their is no one thing that brings us to a point in our lives but repeatedly experiencing anxiety and fear had got so bad for me that I was starting to have panic attacks at work. A conflict had been building between the person I was presenting to the world and the inner me (the shy, wounded child). I realised that I had created a fake persona to help me get through life and part of this fakeness was trying to please and avoid conflict. My anxiety (and sabotage) was in part that I didn't want to be that person anymore. I was tired of trying to be perfect and overachieve in my work, always looking after peoples feelings at the expense of my own. I remember my husband saying to me that you cannot create a life for yourself that is entirely free of conflict - there will always be things out of your control that will go wrong.

I started to risk disappointing. To stop making impossible promises to work clients and I started to scale back my business so that I could focus on dealing with the avoidance (avoiding the further work I needed to do on myself). I became very depressed but out of that depression I realised better who I was and started to look after myself and get some edges. I noticed also that when I stopped always making the effort with people and when my status as a successful business woman was lost, people lost interest in me. A lot of friends only wanted to know me because of what I could give them.

I'm still getting there with all of the above and am probably quite dumbed down at the moment because of my mother and her cancer. I'm realising how hooked up to her moods I am. I guess what I am saying is it's a process and you'll get there. Just recognising that your anxiety is a signal in the body. As others have said work at locating sensations in the body. When I am angry I get a very tight chest, almost as though the air is being squeezed out of me. Keep a note of times when the anxiety is particularly bad and sit with what happened, did someone trigger you or did you feel like you weren't seen or valued...? I'm waffling a bit but hopefully some of this will make sense. 

[Goldcrest]

I guess their is no one thing that brings us to a point in our lives but repeatedly experiencing anxiety and fear had got so bad for me that I was starting to have panic attacks at work. A conflict had been building between the person I was presenting to the world and the inner me (the shy, wounded child). I realised that I had created a fake persona to help me get through life and part of this fakeness was trying to please and avoid conflict. My anxiety (and sabotage) was in part that I didn't want to be that person anymore. I was tired of trying to be perfect and overachieve in my work, always looking after peoples feelings at the expense of my own. I remember my husband saying to me that you cannot create a life for yourself that is entirely free of conflict - there will always be things out of your control that will go wrong.

I started to risk disappointing. To stop making impossible promises to work clients and I started to scale back my business so that I could focus on dealing with the avoidance (avoiding the further work I needed to do on myself). I became very depressed but out of that depression I realised better who I was and started to look after myself and get some edges. I noticed also that when I stopped always making the effort with people and when my status as a successful business woman was lost, people lost interest in me. A lot of friends only wanted to know me because of what I could give them.

I'm still getting there with all of the above and am probably quite dumbed down at the moment because of my mother and her cancer. I'm realising how hooked up to her moods I am. I guess what I am saying is it's a process and you'll get there. Just recognising that your anxiety is a signal in the body. As others have said work at locating sensations in the body. When I am angry I get a very tight chest, almost as though the air is being squeezed out of me. Keep a note of times when the anxiety is particularly bad and sit with what happened, did someone trigger you or did you feel like you weren't seen or valued...? I'm waffling a bit but hopefully some of this will make sense. 
[/quote]

[pursuingJoy]

Harri, thanks for sharing Pete Walker. I am fascinated by the fawn concept. I see it in me and in one of my three kids.

Curious, if you could go back, what would you say to the lady that berated you when you left the bathroom?

I became very depressed but out of that depression I realised better who I was and started to look after myself and get some edges.

I like the way you worded this, Goldcrest. We tend to have a negative view of depression but the way you worded this makes me think that maybe depression is an opportunity to slow down and see things in a different light.

Were any of you identified as the golden child or scapegoat? Do you think that being one or the other impacted your understanding of anger differently?

[zachira]

PursuingJoy,
In response to your question. Making certain children the scapegoats and others the golden children runs in both my mother's and father's families. In my father's family it goes back at least 6 generations. I am a scapegoat. I have lots of anger to work through about being treated badly no matter what I do by certain family members from both the immediate and extended families. In my experience, the golden children are narcissists who seek revenge when they are not put on the pedestal they expect to be on, and are worshipped by many family members no matter how badly they behave.

[Goldcrest]

pursuingJoy, interesting question about scapegoats and golden children. I have always felt as if I was treated at times as both and similar with my brother. Certainly it allowed my mother to triangulate us as we were set up to either be intensely close or full of hate for each other. My family was always about competing...for food, for care, for recognition. I can see I was the scapegoat for my brother and mother (all my mothers failings projected on to me) but similarly I felt my brother was the scapegoat. He would say that I had it hardest but I would argue he had it worse. I think in my family nobody knew whose feelings were whose. I didn't feel my own pain only the pain of everyone else in the family. One thing I do know is my mother was Queen (I need a throne emoticon) everything was revolved around her, everything. You only ate if she was hungry, you could only show happiness if she was happy - otherwise you were conceited...Sorry I had a little rant there! What were we saying about anger 

[curious quandary]

Goldcrest, yes that makes sense. I'm tired of looking after other people's feelings at the expense of my own but can't seem to shake the belief that looking after my own makes me a bad person. It's an ongoing struggle and I'm constantly doubting myself. It's great that you were able to change this behavior! Rants are fine.

Any of you, how did you overcome the gremlins, those thoughts that try to talk you out of your own best interest?

Curious, if you could go back, what would you say to the lady that berated you when you left the bathroom?

PJ, I guess my goal would be to express the hurt she has caused but hopefully do it in a way that creates a learning experience. Matching shame with shame isn't productive. I'm not exactly sure if this works, but it's what I have for now.

“You are mistaken, I am a woman. When people make assumptions about my gender based on my appearance and then judge me, it makes me feel absolutely horrible about myself. What you said was not appropriate.”

Were any of you identified as the golden child or scapegoat? Do you think that being one or the other impacted your understanding of anger differently?

I was the golden child, my sister the scapegoat. She and I handle anger differently. She would disengage, fly under the radar. Etc. I became the people pleaser. Even now she's able to ignore the horrible hurtful texts that occasionally get sent. She can call a day or so after a barrage and act as if nothing has happened. I think the fact that she lives far away helps.

Speaking of hurt and anger, my T took a week off and didn't tell me about it. I sent her a message expressing my hurt and anger using the “I feel this when you that” approach that I've read about. I'm trying to learn a constructive way to do this. She apologized, explained that it was an accident and then thanked me for telling her. Thanked me! I'm soo not used to having someone validate my feelings.

Thank you all for your support, stories, and suggestions! 

[pursuingJoy]

I so appreciate you all answering my question. MIL had two sons. The older was rebellious and often angry. H is a hardcore people pleaser, and he knows that about himself. H will say about his brother, "I don't know what was wrong with him." H insists that they were treated exactly the same, but the older brother accused H of being the golden child. Extended family even confronted MIL about treating H preferentially, so she cut them off and hasn't spoken to them for 20 years.

“You are mistaken, I am a woman. When people make assumptions about my gender based on my appearance and then judge me, it makes me feel absolutely horrible about myself. What you said was not appropriate.”

Bravo! This is an excellent response! I'm imagining her mouth dropping open a little as you calmly walk away, head high, with dignity and self-respect.

The response your T gave you is a normal and healthy one, as was your response to her. Love that you had that experience with her. Can you think of other places and people that you can practice that with?