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Author Topic: General advice and a specific question regarding no contact  (Read 364 times)
Beth2468

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Recently broken up
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« on: August 05, 2020, 08:33:42 AM »

Hello
I have been doing lots of reading on this site, thank you all. The "Ten Beliefs That Can Get You Stuck" has been particularly useful. I have read it several times.

My pwBPD and I broke up almost three weeks ago. The relationship lasted just over a year. His BPD is either not as severe as what many of you have experienced, or I escaped before I saw the full extent.

At the start, although I didn't know about BPD I could tell that he had issues. I was aware that the early declarations of love weren't real, but that he thought they were. I decided I would enjoy it whilst it lasted, thinking it would be just a fling before he moved on to the next one.  As our relationship developed I would regularly ask myself how I felt about us and if the good was still outweighing the bad? The answer was always yes, until the breakup. I always knew it wouldn't last but kept hoping he would prove me wrong. I feel I did all I could, I gave him time, patience and understanding, I developed strategies to get us through his low moods, which were often effective, if/when I was in a good place myself. However he refused to accept that he had a problem and his trust issues were not fixed with time, patience and understanding, as he told me they would be. I was really low the night he left and I needed him to put me first.

Yesterday was one of the worst days so far - I miss you, I need you, I can't stop sobbing, how will I go on? Therefore I know I am not healed yet, far from it.  But I am on the road to recovery.

I do not want to hold on to hate or anger. I ignored the red flags because he met my needs with his attention etc (my ugly truth). Whilst the lows were pretty bad, the good times were amazing (as you all know) but also, there were a lot of times that were calm, where our relationship felt normal. I see him as broken and I feel sorry for him as he doesn't accept that he needs to change, he has no capacity for personal growth. 

I think I am doing pretty well, considering, although if anyone has anything constructive to add I would welcome your comments/advice.

I did support him financially at times and paid for social activities, and what I gave I gave willingly. However, I did get a loan out for him and said that if we split up he needed to pay it back. The payments are manageable (just), and the amount isn't that much in the great scheme of things, although I would prefer him to pay me back. The fact that he hasn't given me any money, or an explanation about not paying has been helpful so far. His actions are the truth, not his words. If he cared about me he would pay. It is the right thing to do. Although I suspect that he doesn't see it that way, can anyone offer any insight into this - what might he thinking?

Also, I have resolved to go no contact - if I message him about the money that's contact. If he did start paying, every time I received a payment it would be contact, if he missed a payment and he messaged to explain, it would be contact. Should I just accept that he isn't going to pay and move on, or try and get the money back as a matter of principle?
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Lucky Jim
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« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2020, 09:39:46 AM »

Excerpt
I always knew it wouldn't last but kept hoping he would prove me wrong.

Hey Beth, Welcome!  Right, we often have hopes in a BPD r/s that things will improve or change, yet the same unhealthy patterns keep returning.  It's a cycle; I should know after 16 years of marriage to a pwBPD.  Ultimately, it's draining for the Non and eventually one has to get off the roller coaster, which is what you are doing.  Sure, the highs are great, but the lows terrible.  Who knew?  Most of us ignored the red flags  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) so don't beat yourself up.

The first step, in my view, is to return the focus to you and your needs.  Put yourself first for a change!  Get back to being your authentic self.  And treat yourself with kindness and compassion.

LuckyJim
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FindingMe2011
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« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2020, 03:33:30 PM »

My pwBPD and I broke up almost three weeks ago. The relationship lasted just over a year. His BPD is either not as severe as what many of you have experienced, or I escaped before I saw the full extent..


Either way, the behavior is the issue, Many PDs overlap, and many times the people whom should know, dont. No better teacher than experience

, I developed strategies to get us through his low moods, which were often effective, if/when I was in a good place myself.

It was going to last as long as YOU were emotionally responsible for 2. No longer. The illness dictates this.

Yesterday was one of the worst days so far - I miss you, I need you, I can't stop sobbing, how will I go on? Therefore I know I am not healed yet, far from it.

Hopefully you are conveying this to friends, family, here, or anywhere but to him. This will only keep you enmeshed and further feed the illness. The brain is releasing chemicals that are released during drug addiction detox. its a ride, expect the bumps, this too will pass.

I do not want to hold on to hate or anger.

Nor should you, but processing them is necessary to reach acceptance.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=138154.30

because he met my needs with his attention etc (my ugly truth).

Needs are different than wants. Needs are lifesavers...wants are just that, wants, but we can do without them. Hopefully you will refer to "wanting" a loving r/s, as opposed to needing. Is that a difference to you?  There is nothing ugly about truth, unless you see it this way. You may not like it, but how can you do anything about it until you identify with it?...Be kind and forgiving to you. Its only fair and it works. With that being said, remember all the beautiful truths about yourself. They count too. There is good and bad in all people. Its called being human.

I see him as broken and I feel sorry for him as he doesn't accept that he needs to change, he has no capacity for personal growth.

You see clearly. This is the reality and the future is bleak for him and all associated, unless he does something, without the help of others.

Although I suspect that he doesn't see it that way, can anyone offer any insight into this - what might he thinking?


What would a young child think ? Trying to figure this out is useless and maybe chalk it up to a poor decision, we all make them. You knew it was a fling. Getting into a financial bind with a fling? This possibly will be turned around in BPDs mind as your fault, cause you should have known better. You will be the persecutor whether you want to or not.

Should I just accept that he isn't going to pay and move on, or try and get the money back as a matter of principle?

This would be wise and im wonder how your instincts arent serving you well here, they are sharp, IMHO.

His past behavior( hes not given you one cent) will dictate his future...The matter of principle, is your inner child yearning to be heard. You are asking a PD to be heard, good luck with this, just ask folks. I remember circular arguments, some lasting for days. Keeping the dance moving, will set you back each and every time. Pushing you deeper into dysfunction, with the excuse of principle.(your justification) Hopefully you wont learn from experience like I had to. You will persevere and with some self discovery, can be stronger than before. Kinda like a broken leg, but youre not broken he is, youre just a little shattered. You will pick up the pieces and move on. he stays in hell, his choice. I wish you well, Peace



« Last Edit: August 05, 2020, 03:48:42 PM by FindingMe2011 » Logged
Gemsforeyes
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« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2020, 02:51:50 AM »

Dear Beth-

I’d like to welcome you to our community.  Please continue posting as you work your way through the healing process.  This is a safe place for you to reflect on whatever it is you’re  feeling...without any shame at all.  We all understand the difficulties and complexities of these relationships, and the ups and downs you’ll experience through the Detaching process.

I have a bit of a different take on the debt he owes you.  To me, a debt is a debt, regardless of the relationship status.  You did something for him... really went to bat - obtained funds on HIS behalf for his benefit alone.  And he owes you that money.  Period.

What I’d propose (and after this, do nothing more):

My proposal assumes your exBF has a depository account at a financial institution (or knows someone who does); you have an email or cell phone number; and your country has a system like “Zelle”.   Zelle is a free IMMEDIATE money transfer system in the U.S., where you send funds from one account directly to another person’s account using either the recipient’s cell phone number or email address.  The first thing YOU do is register on Zelle (through YOUR bank account) and link your account to your cell number and email address.

Then I’d send the guy either a text or email.  State simply  in non-emotional grey terms that you took out a loan on his behalf in X amount on X date.  He agreed to pay you back regardless of relationship status.  This is a business transaction and you fully expect him to honor this obligation, no discussion.  He can send payments via Zelle (or whatever) to your cell phone (provide number), or email address (provide email address).  If he needs help setting up Zelle, he can contact his bank.  In closing, you expect payments to commence in the next 30 days and the loan to be paid in full by X date.  Aside from the direct payments, no further contact is needed.  At all.

And Beth - I’m not sure about your location, but in the U.S.(the last I knew), an unpaid debt, when it in effect becomes “forgiven”, is actually income to the recipient of those funds.  You can take a “loss” (loan write-off) on your tax return, and issue a 1099 to him, which he will have to claim as income.  People do NOT deserve to be unjustly enriched at the expense of others.

This situation has been playing out with a disordered “friend” of mine and I am up to my eyeballs with it.  It has been an unbelievable series of lies and excuses over the significant amount of money she has owed me for years.  In the meantime she never fails to tell me about all of the expensive beauty treatments she purchases... well she has just resumed (one payment)... we’ll see.  What she doesn’t know is that if these payments don’t continue, she’ll have an extra $5,000 in income to declare on an almost 10-year old debt.  I bailed this woman out when she was in dire straits.  Enough.  And when she calls to talk about herself for hours, I no longer answer.  I am essentially No Contact with her. 

And just because you make a brief one-time effort to collect this debt does NOT mean you need to engage.  You CAN control that.  You CAN remain No Contact.

So there you are.  To me, integrity is EVERYTHING.

Wishing you the best in your healing journey.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes



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« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2020, 03:55:02 AM »

Also, I have resolved to go no contact - if I message him about the money that's contact. If he did start paying, every time I received a payment it would be contact, if he missed a payment and he messaged to explain, it would be contact. Should I just accept that he isn't going to pay and move on, or try and get the money back as a matter of principle?

the principle of no contact is largely to get space to detach, and/or to stop the conflict that often carries over.

if receiving payment is an extension of that conflict, then yes, it will probably help to write it off.

breakups are messy things. many promises are broken, emotionally, physically, logistically. when i was going through my breakup, i tried to use the exchange of belongings to facilitate a sense of closure. my ex ultimately wasnt up to it. that was nearly ten years ago now, and i lost some things i cant get back and it still irks me if i stop to think about it.

i pushed for a couple of months. writing it off was the cost of letting go, and reaching for detachment.
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FindingMe2011
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« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2020, 04:09:58 AM »

I bailed this woman out when she was in dire straits.

I could be wrong. From my viewpoint this bail out would mention her name, and is a legal document. On the other hand, if the loan isnt in her name (if it was, then she should have been able to get a loan on her own) you havent much to stand on but poor choices. You could try and claim in taxes, but risk the issue of a red flag. She could claim this was a gift and the circular arguments begin. I have to ask "What is your sanity worth?" I remember my wife claiming both children on taxes, we were both to claim one. My divorce papers reflected this. She was red flagged i supposed. I sent the copy of this to the IRS, I never heard about this issue again. Taking her to court would become a civil case. You would get the judgement, and most likely, no money and would have time and more money invested. The dance continues. These are your principles/morals, not hers and this is what it would take. Peace
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Gemsforeyes
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« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2020, 04:29:51 AM »

Hey Finding-

I’ll make it quick.  I checked with an attorney and a CPA.  I lent her the funds personally because she had run her credit into the ground, kept getting and losing jobs, etc.  there is a massive paper trail of the loan advances I made to her, periodic small payments, and ongoing email acknowledgments by her of the debt she owes me - up until about 2 weeks ago when she made the first payment in three years.

I have been told that ALL of this suffices as both proof of debt and/or proof of “income”.  At this late date, that’s her choice.  I personally stopped expecting the money a long time ago.  What I do know is that she’s expected far too much of me.  And I fell for it hook, line and sinker, just like I did with my exBF - except he normally paid back “most” of what he owed.  Most.

Gems
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FindingMe2011
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« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2020, 09:26:19 AM »

And I fell for it hook, line and sinker, just like I did with my exBF - except he normally paid back “most” of what he owed.  Most.

In my state FL, as im sure it differs from state to state, although this is tragic, its not a criminal case. Im 99% sure its a civil case, unless the state decides to pick it up and dollar value may come into play, for this to happen. Its messy and they understand revenge is the motive.(not good for healing) Some can be scared by lawyers or what have you, to repay.(more money, time) Good you recouped some. Even after a judgement, the failure to repay results into nothing. You could lien property as the only option. Which would become available when the property sells. You have to refile every year in order to keep current. So if this were me, i would just put a lien on said property and remain no contact. Not dance, but we all have our own path. Unfortunately most of the time there is no property. I wish you well Peace

« Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 09:37:27 AM by FindingMe2011 » Logged
Beth2468

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« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2020, 12:27:24 PM »

Thank you all for your replies and kind words.

Findingme - thank you I am doing all the right things self care wise, my T told me so today! Also I had some good news today so it is a really good day and the weather is glorious.

Regarding my "ugly truth" it is just an expression, when you hold on to hate, it is because you are angry at yourself - and that is hard to face up to, and to deal with. I am facing up to what my part in this was, why I formed an unhealthy bond. 

Wants/needs is an interesting topic to debate in general. What I 'needed' after coming out of a long term relationship was exactly what my pwBPD gave me (everything that was lacking in my marriage). 

Gems - I am in the UK, and he has my bank details on his banking app on his cellphone. He could pay if he wanted to. I have enough evidence to pursue a case in the small claims court, but that would be stressful and prolong the agony, with no guarantee of payment.

I think that paying the debt is the best thing for me. It will enable me to detach.  I was wavering because to mention it would be an excuse to contact him.

Thank you all again.

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FindingMe2011
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« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2020, 02:38:14 PM »

What I 'needed' after coming out of a long term relationship was exactly what my pwBPD gave me (everything that was lacking in my marriage).

From the way things ended, all I see you getting is short term fantasy. So was fantasy lacking in your marriage? This too is an interesting subject. From my stand point dreams are good, too much dreaming becomes fantasy. Too much of ANYTHING is not good. I wish you well, Peace
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