Question about triangulation and boundaries

[Vanilla Sky]

Hi dear friends  

I would like some feedback on how I managed this recent situation with enabler father and uBPD mother and learn more about the drama triangle and boundaries.

My father is going through a health treatment and will be going to the hospital once a week. My uBPD mother is terrified of COVID, and they decided to isolate themselves from each other in their house. I am sure they came up to this decision after my mother disregulated about him "bringing covid home", but anyways, they figured it out on their own. So today I made a suggestion (texted) my father to organize his stuff and make his new bedroom/rooms comfortable as he will be staying there for a while. So he went and started doing that, and my uBPD mother didn't like the changes he was making and called me several times.. screaming at me, asking if I think her house is not good enough, if I am so worried about my father why don't I take him to live with me, bla bla bla. I remained calm on the call and told her that I have only made a suggestion (jadeing here), but I understand that she is upset (trying not to invalidate her feelings), it is their house and they know what is best for them. I told her I won't get involved with their house arrangements anymore (new boundary). She didn't listen and continue dumping her feelings and blaming me. I told her that I wasn't willing to listen to all of that, and that I had to go back to work, "bye mom". That was it.

I then sent a message to my father "I was trying to help but I ended up mistreated. I decided that I won't get involved with your house arrangements anymore as you know better than I do what is best for you".

He apologized saying he didn't think she was going to call me and be abusive. I don't buy that anymore. She always had acted like that and he knows it, so, time for boundaries with him. She called me because he told her it was my suggestion to change things, he did that to get her off his neck.

It looks like that I went from rescuer (helping dad), to persecutor (mom felt attacked by me), to victim (feeling abused by them).

I absolutely value my peace of mind, and it's usually my parents that can take that away from me, so boundaries needed around my peace of mind. No more comments about their house unless they are in danger. They are adults and can make their decisions about their house. I decided to verbalize that boundary with them and will hold it - over and over they will see I won't let myself be abused.

Feedback and advice are super welcome. If I could have handle this in a different way, feel free to point that out. Thank you.

[Vanilla Sky]

I don't know if it matters here, but my motivation to text my father and tell him to get comfortable at his own house while he goes through treatment, is that I've been seeing my uBPD mother being abusive to him - it's like "you stay there away from me, I don't want to get covid from you". Hard to know when to get involved and when not. But I guess he is an adult, and can make his decisions and confront her when something is important to him.

[zachira]

Vanilla Sky,
I really feel for you. I am willing to give you some feedback while recognizing that I too struggle with setting healthy boundaries with my disordered family members. I  am learning that it is best to not give any explanation of why I am doing what I am doing to family members. It seems that with personality disordered people, hearing how another feels about anything is invalidating for them, as they are incapable of empathy. I think we fall into the trap into trying to explain what we are doing because we are hungry for some kind of validation which we are never going to get. I suggest that you keep on setting boundaries with your parents and skip the explanations of why as your parents are incapable of hearing your point of view.

[Vanilla Sky]

hi zachira, thank you. What you said make sense to me. I find that I often try to explain why I am doing something as an attempt to calm down things and not receive more blame and abuse.

[zachira]

Vanilla Sky,
You and I are normal people. Of course, we want to be validated by our closest family members, especially our parents. We will always be sad about not getting that validation, and there will just be times when we will try to get it no matter if we know at a cognitive level that we are wasting our time. Of course, you want to stop the blame and the abuse, and to calm things down.

[Skip]

So today I made a suggestion (texted) my father to organize his stuff and make his new bedroom/rooms comfortable as he will be staying there for a while. So he went and started doing that, and my uBPD mother didn't like the changes he was making and called me several times.. screaming at me, asking if I think her house is not good enough, if I am so worried about my father why don't I take him to live with me, bla bla bla. I remained calm on the call and told her that I have only made a suggestion (jadeing here), but I understand that she is upset (trying not to invalidate her feelings), it is their house and they know what is best for them. I told her I won't get involved with their house arrangements anymore

As far as using the skills, you were right on track up to here.

When she continued to dump, it might have been better to say, "hey mom, I'm sorry , we need to talk about this but my boss is calling".

Maybe she forgets about. Maybe a week from now she brings it up and you listen and ask for advice (how should I have handled this).

Bottom line, your mom over-reacted and the key in surviving a Karpman Triangle is not then over-react yourself.

If you filter the drama out of this, you made some suggestion to your dad and your mom felt they were a criticism of her. It wasn't, right? And even if it was, it's a pretty minor offense. Right? She was probably wound up about something else, and your benign action flipped her switch.

It was not fair. It was not reasonable. If she's got BPD traits, and it's your mother and she aging, she is on a trajectory you can't change. It's best to find ways to minimize, tolerate, detach from these over-reactions.

One lesson I learned is that these outbreaks often go away - they are over reactions in the moment - and it is important not to bring them back to life or reinflate them. Telling your dad could do that if he brings it up with her.

Dealing with BPD requires great confidence and patience.

[Methuen]

Hi VanillaSky,

I’m feeling for you after your mom’s tirade.  I can so relate.  I’ve  had many different examples of this type of behavior with my mom.  Now, when I look back,  I see how irrational she was, and how much BPD is a disease of emotional dysregulation.  We all manage stress differently, but my working theory is that BPD’s don’t manage it at all.  Your  mom sounds stressed.  Result- emotional dysregulation dumped on us.  I used to feel hurt and angry and resentful after one of these tirades.  And I used to stew about how unfair it was sometimes for days, with a compounding effect over the years.  I don’t feel resentful  nearly as much any more because I’ve learned some skills about how to handle a bpd episode, and I think you did really well with your response.

You have shown you understand bpd and boundaries and triangulation, and you are reflective and desiring to continue to learn and improve.  I applaud your  effort to manage a difficult dynamic.

My dad passed away 15 years ago.  I’m an only child living in the same town as my ubpd mom.  I have learned that in my situation, it is best to never give advice to my mom. It backfires.   Instead, I ask questions eg “Dad, what are some things you could do to make your room comfortable while you are isolating?”  I try to ask questions so they come up with their own solutions.  When my mom makes decisions I think are bad, I either ask a question, or get real quiet and change the conversation.  There is so much less drama now that I have accepted my mother as she is.   Like you said, they are adults and need to work out their own solutions. I don’t have to agree with their decisions, but as adults they are still entitled to their own decisions, and to live with the consequences.    I have found asking validating questions to be a really good tool.  It does not pay for me to offer helpful advice with bpd in the mix.

If after your calm response she continues to dump, it’s time to say “I have to go now.  Let’s talk later when everyone is feeling better.  Bye for now” and end the call.  It sends a message that is polite and calm, but also that you are not available to be dumped on.  Not allowing yourself to be dumped on is also a way of respecting yourself right?  

Just my thoughts.  

Keep plugging away at it.  You’re on a good path to finding your way.

[Vanilla Sky]

Hi Skip and Methuen,

Thank you so much for your feedback. I apologize for not responding here sooner. I did read your responses before the next interaction I had with uBPD mother and I was calmer and felt more prepared. She was angry and wanted to continue the discussion, and I reminded myself to not over-react and let the emotions dissipate. It worked and things didn't escalate. It is really an amazing thing to see the "tools" working in real life, in my own relationship with FOO. Thanks to everyone here, I am no longer so hopeless, this is huge.  

Bottom line, your mom over-reacted and the key in surviving a Karpman Triangle is not then over-react yourself.

This is brilliant. So simple, so effective, and hard to do when I hear her voice screaming at me - makes me shake and have chills. It takes me back to some traumatic experiences, but finally, I know better now, at least to control my own reaction, or just leave/end the call when I can't.

If she's got BPD traits, and it's your mother and she aging, she is on a trajectory you can't change. It's best to find ways to minimize, tolerate, detach from these over-reactions.

Agreed 100%.

One lesson I learned is that these outbreaks often go away - they are over reactions in the moment - and it is important not to bring them back to life or reinflate them. Telling your dad could do that if he brings it up with her.
 

Again, you were spot on.

I have learned that in my situation, it is best to never give advice to my mom. It backfires.   Instead, I ask questions eg “Dad, what are some things you could do to make your room comfortable while you are isolating?”  I try to ask questions so they come up with their own solutions.  When my mom makes decisions I think are bad, I either ask a question, or get real quiet and change the conversation.  There is so much less drama now that I have accepted my mother as she is. Like you said, they are adults and need to work out their own solutions. I don’t have to agree with their decisions, but as adults they are still entitled to their own decisions, and to live with the consequences.    I have found asking validating questions to be a really good tool.  It does not pay for me to offer helpful advice with bpd in the mix.

Methuen, I always read all your post and responses in this forum, and I can't thank you enough for the wisdom that you have been sharing here with us. You are making a difference in my life.

I noticed that my mother feels less than when I give her advice. If she is disregulating, and brings up a problem, like the microwave broke or something, and I try to fix that by giving her some advice, she blows up. In milliseconds, it's not just the broken microwave anymore, it's that no one cares about her and she doesn't want to live anymore. If I just listen to her, she feels heard, her emotions get less intense and then she can deal with it.

[Methuen]

I noticed that my mother feels less than when I give her advice. If she is disregulating, and brings up a problem, like the microwave broke or something, and I try to fix that by giving her some advice, she blows up. In milliseconds, it's not just the broken microwave anymore, it's that no one cares about her and she doesn't want to live anymore. If I just listen to her, she feels heard, her emotions get less intense and then she can deal with it.

This is your "eureka" Vanilla Sky!  You are moving forward, and are gonna be OK!