Moving out and terrified

[curious quandary]

Hi all...

After much discussion with my T, sister, and a couple of close friends I have decided to move out. I found a place, will sign a lease on Monday and broke the news to uBPD mom. I told her that I still wanted a close relationship and would continue to support her financially including paying rent for the current house.

It was a mess and loaded with guilt. I am scared and feel absolutely horrible and alone. I'm starting to doubt myself but I think that's a result of my conditioning. She is talking about selling all her stuff, re-homing the dog, and finding senior housing.

[GaGrl]

Stay strong. You are making a good decision for your emotional and mental health.I

While your mother might be saying some things out of anger or fear, she actually might reach a good decision about future housing that does involve senior housing.

[curious quandary]

Thank you GaGirl. I'm trying. This is one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. It feels wrong trying to take care of my own needs.

Option 1: I move. If she moves too I will either have to cover rent for two places (one empty); end lease early on new apartment and move back into old; or move all stuff out of old garage and into storage (I think old landlord may be open to month to month option as he likes us). If I stick with new apartment I end up paying the same as old but lose use of garage and the ability to make lots of noise when fixing/making things. It is considerably smaller (but newer). Mom says she feels rushed to find a place and has asked me to bring her dog to the pound. I refused and suggested re-homing should be a last option not a first. I told her that she shouldn't rush this move and that I would cover rent. She says she feels guilty and I shouldn't have to. I feel guilty as there isn't much time but if the old landlord is flexible the deadline is artificial.

Option 2: I stay here and she moves out. She has no incentive to move (she might or might not idk). She could make my life very difficult in the process either way. I lose out on this apartment and will get even more pushback if I try again in the future.

[Methuen]

This is a big step in your growth and healing.  Amazing.  

Change is always scary.  Cognitively, you know you are doing the right thing.  You've rationalized it all already, made your decision, and you know this is a healthy step for you.

But it sounds like the emotional piece is tearing you apart a bit.

I second GaGrl in saying "stay strong".  Once the move (i.e. change) is behind you, you will be thankful.  It will get better.

This is one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. It feels wrong trying to take care of my own needs.

Perhaps this move is a stage of "differentiating" yourself from your bpd parent.  So hard to do presently, but so worth the effort.  Taking care of your own needs will get easier the more you do it.  Eventually it will feel more normal.  You just have to get started (which you are)...

Mom says she feels rushed to find a place and has asked me to bring her dog to the pound. I refused and suggested re-homing should be a last option not a first. I told her that she shouldn't rush this move and that I would cover rent. She says she feels guilty and I shouldn't have to.

Let her have her own feelings.  Focus on your own needs instead of feeling her feelings.  You have a plan.  It is a very fair plan.  You are offering to cover her rent so she doesn't need to rush.  This is very compassionate and caring.  Her emotions are heightened because of change (change = stress) especially with the BPD.  But this too shall pass.  She is an adult.  Life is about change from one stage to another.  As an adult, she WILL find her own way to adjust to this change.  I love the analogy someone on this board once wrote: our bpd parent is like a cat, which always lands on its feet.  I remind myself of that analogy often.  Once the change has happened, her emotions can settle, and you can both get on with your separate lives, while still making time for each other as determined by your needs.

You've got this.  

[Mata]

I don't have much to add to what's already been said, but agree to stay strong.  Change is hard and scary, especially when navigating it with a BPDparent.  You can do this! 

She is talking about selling all her stuff, re-homing the dog, and finding senior housing.

My mom moved into senior housing last fall.  It was a huge challenge, and still is at times (due to Covid), but my mom has adjusted to it and by all objective factors, she is much better off.  She eats regularly and has gained weight (she used to be 89 pounds), she has friends and social support, and other people around to help her out, so it doesn't all fall on me.  She was able to keep her dog and cat at the place she lives, so maybe that could even be an option for your mom, if she choses senior housing. 

[GaGrl]

Don't get hung up on the details of which apartment works best under which circumstances. Your priority is separating your living arrangement from your mother. All else is secondary to that. It will fall in place of you keep your focus on the priority.

[curious quandary]

Thank you to everyone for your encouragement. It means more than you know.

Methuen, I think that I'm doing the right thing but for all my reasons it still feels wrong, and yes it's tearing me apart. This doubt is driven by fear, 4 decades of codependency, and sheer exhaustion going into this decision.

Taking care of your own needs will get easier the more you do it.  Eventually it will feel more normal.

I don't know what my needs are, which makes this difficult. Do I really need to be living separately? Everyone seems to think I do. Part of me knows that they're right. Part of me thinks I'm making a mistake.

Let her have her feelings? Good reminder. Her feelings have been all over the map. I am easily drawn into the fray. I just have to realize that they're temporary.

our bpd parent is like a cat, which always lands on its feet.

Love that. Yes my sister has reminded me that mom is stronger than I give her credit for.

Mata, that's encouraging to hear about your mom. I have suggested that my mom look into it. We're also looking at trailers. I'm trying to walk the fine line of giving her options and letting her figure it out. Earlier today she dug her heels in and said something along the lines of I need to figure it out for her and tell her where to go. This shouldn't be my responsibility. It'll only come back to bite me. I did get approval from our current landlord to go month to month so there shouldn't be a rush.

Gagrl, good point as well. I can always move again if needed. It just feels like a monumental effort to move us both. We did it last year and promised ourselves we'd wait several years before doing it again. That and I'm giving up a lot of space by moving. I know, that should be a lesser priority right now.

I'm thinking of proposing to the new landlord that I write two checks, one for deposit and one for rent, and asking for a couple of days to read through the lease and sort out housing for mom. If I say yes, good to go. If not, and they can't find a tenant they can keep the deposit to cover lost income for Sept.

I'm feeling backed into a corner.

[Methuen]

Earlier today she dug her heels in and said something along the lines of I need to figure it out for her and tell her where to go.

Big red flag! Be wary that she will try to wear you down on this.  Please do NOT fall into this trap.  Give NO advice, or, accept the risk that everything will be your fault.  Instead of giving advice, try responding with validating questions.  She is an adult, and both entitled and responsible for making her own decisions.  It will go better for both of you.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273415.0

I don't know what my needs are, which makes this difficult.

So, by striking out on your own, and living your own life, you will create space for yourself to figure out what your own needs are.  We all have needs.  Your needs are different than your mom's, but BPD's can tend to raise us to be images of themselves, which may make it difficult for us to individuate and be our own person.  By striking out on your own, you will now have the golden opportunity to explore your own needs.  You can figure it out as you go. No need to figure it out right now.  But as Abraham Maslow showed us, it's good to start with the basics - healthy eating, shelter, sleep, and personal safety (both physical and emotional).  The rest you will now have the opportunity to discover as you are ready.

Stay strong curious quandry!  
 

[curious quandary]

I signed the lease and wrote a check! Thank you for your encouragement, it has helped tremendously.

What surprised me was that going back to work in the office, after 5 months of working from home, helped too. I wasn't looking forward to it given the stressful weekend. But it gave me an unexpected empty emotional space (I'm a cube dweller). Seeing how much difference a few hours made really hit home.

Methuen, thank you for the red flag and that post. I will try the validating questions approach. I did explain to mom how I could help her financially (I can give you $X/month towards living expenses) and reiterated that she didn't need to rush to find some place. She calmed down considerably and appeared to be open to exploring different options on her own.

Stay tuned. There will be more difficult days to come but I feel optimistic right now. One day at a time.

[Methuen]

Curious quandry, I was filled with joy to read your post that you had signed the lease, returned to work, and felt good!

Congratulations!  You DID it!

There may be bumps ahead, but if there are, you know you can manage them, since you managed this!  And your mom "settled" with your response to her, so GOOD FOR YOU!
 
Keep us posted!

[Mata]

Way to go on signing the lease.   

This shouldn't be my responsibility. It'll only come back to bite me.

Yes, exactly. It is difficult not to be the "figure it out-er" for our BPD mothers, especially when we've had that role our whole lives.  But without fail, when an idea is mine, my mom will turn it back around on me later and blame me for her unhappiness, which then triggers my guilt to "do better" to make her happy.  When she makes her own choices, it helps break the blame/guilt cycle.  Recently my mom brought up moving out of her senior living community and into an apartment.  I think its a terrible idea (and honestly am not sure if she can live totally independently again), but rather than tell her what I think she should do, I tried asking her questions about how she sees this apartment idea working.  I also pointed out potential issues by asking questions, like "do you have a plan for ___?"  She seems to have moved on from the idea for now. I'm still learning how to navigate having a healthier relationship with her, and the asking questions approach worked pretty well so far.     

[curious quandary]

A rough week...

Mom, convinced that she wasn't going to find an apartment that allows dogs, re-homed her 4 year old dog. It was a heart wrenching day. I hadn't realized how attached I had become to the pup. I felt like it was incredibly impulsive to do so before researching options, but I let her make that choice (you guys are right I can't figure these things out for her). The dog is going to a good home and will be able to play with one of her litter-mates. At least there's that. Mom did say that she never would have re-homed the dog if this hadn't happened.

The atmosphere just feels heavy – crying, hopelessness, many guilt-ridden comments. I feel like a terrible person. My sister once told me that “the house is on fire and you can only save yourself.” I think to myself, is it really that bad?  It's killing me that I have to crush someone I love and care about to get my own life back. It's unlikely that she'll ever understand why, especially since from her perspective it came out of nowhere. I'm wondering if I'm making too much of this. The good moments make the bad ones seem more acceptable somehow. I know that waiting around the corner is the next meltdown though. It's not like I'm abandoning her, even though she may think so.

She originally convinced me over a decade ago that it would make sense to live together. I agreed partly because she would tell me how horribly depressed she was, how she hated living alone, and how there wasn't anything to live for. I thought I could bring happiness to her life and didn't think it would impact mine much. It probably didn't occur to me what would be best for me.

I am starting to realize how enmeshed our emotions are. I'm tuned into every sniffle (is it allergies or crying?), every sigh, every facial expression, etc. I can't seem to feel happy when she's distraught but can feel somewhat optimistic when she's happy. She found a senior village that she toured this morning and called me all excited. Later today was complaining, and by this evening she was upset again and having doubts about the place (it was run down, in the middle of nowhere, far from me, etc.).

I am not sleeping or eating well but I'm hanging in there. The current tenant needs an extra week to close on a house so the move will be delayed. I'm filled with guilt and doubts and fear. Rationally I know that this is the right thing for me to do. It just feels all sorts of wrong, if that makes any sense. Just trying to take it one day at at time. For all of the turmoil it still doesn't feel real.

Anyway thanks for listening and for the support.

[Methuen]

I’m sorry to hear it was a rough few days, but this was predictable.  It’s just as predictable that you will get through this spell.  This too shall pass.  The trick is to believe that you can manage whatever she throws at you, until the dust settles with the move. 

Mom did say that she never would have re-homed the dog if this hadn't happened.

Classic.  Just classic.    BPD FOG.

You are not a terrible person.  You are a daughter who just wants to live a normal life - like other sons and daughters do - without all the emotional blackmail.  She’s never going to give you this.  You have got to take it back for yourself.  It will be so worth it.  Keep the end goal in mind.  This current drama will pass.  Every drama passes, until the next drama , right?  It’s a pattern, so yes this too will pass.

 

She found a senior village that she toured this morning and called me all excited.

This is awesome.  Focus on this.  This was the honest reaction.  What followed as he day went on, was the BPD behavior.  Try SET, and just stay in your lane. 

I'm filled with guilt and doubts and fear. Rationally I know that this is the right thing for me to do. It just feels all sorts of wrong, if that makes any sense. Just trying to take it one day at at time.

Good plan.  You’ve been raised and trained to feel this guilt to meet her needs.  FOG right?  I went through these intense feelings too.  It gets better CQ. 

[curious quandary]

Classic.  Just classic.  BPD FOG

Methuen, thank you for that, it made me smile. I can usually tell when it's FOG-gy but still feel guilty/responsible. I guess that takes time to try to change my automatic reaction.

This current drama will pass.  Every drama passes, until the next drama, right?  It’s a pattern, so yes this too will pass.

Good reminder. It's easy to forget in the moment. Yes you are correct. She was in more of a "wise mind" this morning. She apologized for being emotional, and I told her that that's understandable and that change is hard. I'm sure she is unaware that it's about much more than just being upset. I know there will be more drama on the horizon, I just have to learn to weather the storm.

This was the honest reaction.  What followed as he day went on, was the BPD behavior.

Interesting, I didn't think of it that way. I tend to think of every reaction as her truth in that moment, instead of differentiating between an honest reaction and one distorted by BPD. I get dragged into believing what she believes at any given time, especially when she feels hopeless. That's probably part of being enmeshed. This goes back to the cats landing on their feet analogy.

I went through these intense feelings too.

Really? Would you mind elaborating? How did you get through it?

[Methuen]

Really? Would you mind elaborating? How did you get through it?

This is perhaps the hardest question I have ever answered on this forum.

Honestly, that was a pretty dark time for me.  I was r-e-a-l-l-y distressed.  I grew up thinking my mother was my best friend.  She was my matron of honour (who loved the attention).  In those days, I wasn't me, I was "her" because I was living the life she wanted me to live.

Since I'm an only child with no family within 800 miles, and NO one who knows my mother the way I do, when I fell apart a year ago, I was ALL ALONE.  My H of 32 years didn't actually witness my mother verbally abuse me in a full-on BPD moment until our 31st year of marriage.  He knew she could be difficult, but that's very different from experiencing the "RAGE" of a crazy person first hand.  So until that moment, he had only heard me complain, but never actually witnessed my "truth".  I felt so ALONE.  I had no one who understood, because I had no one who had walked my path.

I NEEDED to physically separate myself from my mom, so H and I went on a road trip for a few weeks (it was summer).  The longer I was away from her, the better I felt.  Then I remembered that the last time I had felt myself, and free, was on a 3 week family trip "down under", when I was also away from her.  That was an "aha" moment.

By the time we arrived back home from my summer road trip, my head had cleared a little and my amygdula was settling.  I was so terrified of her.  I don't think I can articulate the terror I felt.  I made no effort to contact her when I got home.  Please understand that I was riddled with guilt too.  But I was still sick at that time, and I knew I had to be no contact for a while longer, or risk a nervous breakdown.  But the guilt - I had so much guilt.  I was 57, so 57 years of training to feel guilt for her...

I told no one - no friends - no family.  Not even our kids (young adults) as she was their grandma.

I was a mess.  So I sought help of professionals.  I found a new T.  And I went to see my family Dr.  He was empathetic.  He had experience through his wife and inlaws.  He didn't share any details, but he told me I needed to look after myself.  To hear that from a Dr was so validating.

This was a year ago - pre-covid - so all 4'10" of me started going to the gym.  I'm a weak non-athlete.  Every time my brain started ruminating, and stewing, and the frustration and anger started building, I would go to the gym.  Every single time I left the gym I felt better.  Incredible.  Lots of time doing cardio.  And physio exercises - I have lots of health problems.

I also started going to yoga classes.  Years ago I used to think yoga was a cultural thing for people from south Asia.  I was a fool.  I love yoga now because it works.

My T recommended a meditation app.  When I couldn't sleep at night (I have serious sleep issues) I would plug into my meditation app (beside my bed).  I learned a lot from this meditation app.

Therapy.  Every 2-4 weeks.  

This forum.  My gosh, I spent a lot of time on here.  People were so helpful.  For the first time in my life I didn't feel alone.  I had people who truly understood what I was going through, and walking the same walk I was walking.  They gave me advice and support.  It was incredible because it was so validating.  

I had a supportive H.  I am very fortunate about that.  He has a level head, is analytical, and stood by me, despite the gradual realization that his MIL is not the MIL he thought he had when he married me.  She has caused chaos in our life.  As it turns out, his FOO had their own issues.  My SIL has some kind of PD.  One thing that made it possible for him to stand by me, is that I was not in denial about my mom's issues.  I was hurting bad, and he didn't know how to help me.  He told me this later.

It was tunnel time QC.  It was a dark time, and I just had to go through it.  Get through the tunnel.  Accept my mom for who/what she was.  Any hope I had of her being who I wished she was, I let go of.  I just let go of all that could never be.  I could no longer deny the problem.  

And I stayed on this forum, and read about BPD, and learned strategies for communicating with her, and started processing memories... I read books, worked through "workbooks".  For me learning was key to understanding the BPD and accepting her as she is, and then learning how to manage my relationship with her.

It was a tunnel, and I just had to walk through it.

I don't actually know if I'm through it, or if she has to die before I'm through it, but I like to think I'm through it.  I have learned how to interact with her now.  I'm different with her than I used to be.  I've adjusted.  That's the difference.  Because she was never going to change.  Ever.  I had to change how I interacted with her.
She also went on an anti-depressant two years ago because her two best friends were on that anti-depressant.  I could have never suggested it.  If I had, she would have never gone on it.  The idea of the anti-depressant came from her two best friends who were on it.  That made it OK because her friends were on it. 

We can never make suggestions, or they will do the opposite.  Or somehow, our suggestions will be twisted and used against us at some time down the road. 

I'm still going to have to deal with   ahead.  But I know things now.  I have tools.  I've differentiated from her.  And I now believe I am capable of handling whatever she throws at me.  I'm no longer afraid of her.

That's how I got through it.

It does get better.  

You can get through this too.

[Turkish]

She is talking about selling all her stuff, re-homing the dog, and finding senior housing.

I'm glad that it seems to be working out thus far... yet why does your mom need money from you? Has she no pension or social security?

About 15 years ago, I did a "back of the envelope" calculation and realized that I was living on the same net that my mother was from social security. After I subtracted my rent, 401(k) and company stock contributions, after taxes, our nets were nearly identical. And I had a $350 truck payment in addition. Yet she was the one always at the brink of having her utilities cut off (I'd give her money). Or after I gifted her my paid off truck, she blew the clutch. Then the engine (on a Toyota, hard to do), so I gave her money to fix it.

My mom was eventually forced by the county and Adult Protective Services to find something like senior housing.  No surprise, being forced to live in a 1 room hotel, she finally kept some money. Natural and Logical consequences.

[curious quandary]

Thank you so much for sharing your story Methuen. It means a lot to know that I'm not alone. I did not intend for it to be a difficult question. I am sorry if this triggered you. It does sound like you are in a much better place now and for that I am happy for you.

So until that moment, he had only heard me complain, but never actually witnessed my "truth".  I felt so ALONE.  I had no one who understood, because I had no one who had walked my path.

Yes to those outside the family everything appears normal. They think it's sweet we have a close mother/daughter relationship. Mom can be very personable. I'm not sure there's a good way to adaquately explain to those who haven't experienced a meltdown what it's like. I'm lucky that my sister understands. She is the one who initially told me about BPD.

Then I remembered that the last time I had felt myself, and free, was on a 3 week family trip "down under", when I was also away from her.  That was an "aha" moment.

I had an aha moment last fall when she went on a day trip with friends. I felt lighter and just enjoyed the day. I didn't do anything special, just cleaned the garage. Something about being able to let my guard down. Even when she's in a great mood I don't think I'm completely myself.

Please understand that I was riddled with guilt too.

Don't worry, I understand. My sister once told me, "the house is on fire and you can only save yourself." It got me hard and still does. It feels absolutely horrible to make that choice, but sometimes that's what has to be done.

The gym, T, meditation app, etc. - all good suggestions. Making myself a priority is difficult, especially when my heart isn't in it.

Accept my mom for who/what she was.  Any hope I had of her being who I wished she was, I let go of.  I just let go of all that could never be.  I could no longer deny the problem.

Yea… I'm still holding on to hope I guess. Not all of the time, but sometimes. I need to let it completely go and just accept what is. It almost feels like letting go is admitting that I've failed. I know that's not the case but it feels that way.

It does get better.

I hope so. This is a big change for me, one where there's no going back. It feels a lot like a "midlife unravelling."

Thanks Turkish, it still doesn't feel real. She makes well below poverty with her retirement income. Yes, she can get assistance from various programs and is willing to investigate. I still feel obligated to help her out financially though. My alcoholic and abusive father screwed her over financially when he left (over 20 years ago). She worked two jobs to support my sister and I. Maybe I shouldn't feel responsible for supporting her but I do. I do make saving $ myself a high priority though.

[Mata]

I am not sleeping or eating well but I'm hanging in there. The current tenant needs an extra week to close on a house so the move will be delayed. I'm filled with guilt and doubts and fear. Rationally I know that this is the right thing for me to do. It just feels all sorts of wrong, if that makes any sense. Just trying to take it one day at at time. For all of the turmoil it still doesn't feel real.

Anyway thanks for listening and for the support.

Just wanted to offer a    I also struggle with reconciling what I rationally know is the healthy thing to do and feeling all sorts of guilty.  You are not alone.  Hang in there! 

[curious quandary]

Thank you Mata.

We signed a lease for mom at a senior community, gave our current landlord notice, and arranged for movers for the very heavy items. I will get access to my place next Monday. I'm shocked at how fast things are progressing.

[Methuen]

We signed a lease for mom at a senior community, gave our current landlord notice, and arranged for movers for the very heavy items. I will get access to my place next Monday. I'm shocked at how fast things are progressing.

[GaGrl]

We signed a lease for mom at a senior community, gave our current landlord notice, and arranged for movers for the very heavy items. I will get access to my place next Monday. I'm shocked at how fast things are progressing.

That's fantastic!

You (and your mom) may be surprised at how much she enjoys a senior community.

[curious quandary]

I can't believe that it's been almost two months since my last post. It took until the middle of October to get both mom and I moved out of the 3 bedroom house, with basement, garage, and shed, into two small apartments. It was a lot of work and stress but we're finally settled.

Sure there have been plenty of guilt grenades - texts and comments about how everyone's she's ever loved has left her, how she's lonely and doesn't feel at home, demanding to know my reasons for why I've "kicked her out," etc. Oh and she's cancelling Christmas. Maybe.

A year ago I couldn't have fathomed such a decision. But, a series of events (move last year, covid, work from home, etc.) created "a perfect storm" which forced me to make one of the most difficult choices I have ever had to make. A blessing in disguise I guess. I do believe that this was the right decision for my well-being and I can't thank you guys enough for your support and encouragement.

Having a quiet emotional space has definitely helped me to relax a little and start reconnecting with my authentic self. Fielding texts or depressing visits is much much easier than 24-7 contact. There have been a small handful of good days too. It'll be a long road but I'm feeling A LOT more optimistic about it than I was back in August.

[Methuen]

Having a quiet emotional space has definitely helped me to relax a little and start reconnecting with my authentic self. Fielding texts or depressing visits is much much easier than 24-7 contact. There have been a small handful of good days too. It'll be a long road but I'm feeling A LOT more optimistic about it than I was back in August..

Curious Quandry this is so fantastic!  Thanks for the update, and Congratulations for making the decision and the move! 
...and  for sharing and giving us the chance to celebrate with you

[beatricex]

methuen,
I just wanted to write you a quick note and say your post really touched me.  You are very brave to admit how terrified you are.  I said it to my husband yesterday "I am terrified of my mom"...it sounded so weird as I'm a grown woman, to say it out loud.

Thank you again for sharing, this has touched me deeply. 

Something you said that just resonates, "they will take your advice and do the opposite."  I am really struggling with Not giving my aging parents advice, for this exact reason.  We recently watched their dog for 2 1/2 weeks while they supposedly went camping about 6 hours away.  I got an email from my Dad about week 2 into their trip "we ended up staying at your brother's house in Idaho (that's about a 26 hour drive) and are leaving today...hope the dog is good."  what the?  Why are they driving all over the country?  I bit my tongue and said nothing.  They also like to go to France for 5 months out of the year, and we also get their dog during that time.  I really don't think it's responsible for my Mom to continue to go to another country at her age and she has a bad back and they have no Money, but the more I say this to her and my siblings, the more adamanet she becomes about doing it.   I truly fear we will get stuck with a large $$bill$$ one day, because dealing with my BPD mom is like dealing with a spoiled toddler.  They just do what they want and others are left picking up the pieces.

and anther thing "I feel better the further away I get from her..."

I just completely relate to these two statements, and know how it feels to have a Mom with a mental illness.  You are not alone.

((methuen)

B

[Turkish]

Adult children aren't responsible for their parents debts,  if that's agar you're worried about.