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Author Topic: My mom kept calling me and asking me why I hated her and why I was so mean  (Read 1008 times)
JNChell
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« on: September 04, 2020, 01:32:04 PM »

“Gaslight” is a movie from 1944 where a husband drives his wife crazy by distorting her reality. She trusts him so she goes deep into the rabbit hole.

The term “Gaslighting” was derived from this movie.

Going through something like that can have very serious effects on mental health. The perpetrator may or may not know that they are doing it. I see it as a split in my personal experience. I don’t believe that they they really thought that they were doing anything bad while raising me. I believe that they were in the constrains of their minds. I think that there was some gray area in their minds from time to time. If an abusive event was really bad, I’d get a box of baseball cards to go through. The less severe events (which were horrific) would be forgotten almost immediately and my mom would give me bits of food while she was cooking and I had my arms around her leg.

We rely on our parents to raise us. Most importantly, our minds. To be abused and then told that you haven’t been is an overwhelming thing. It distorts reality, which I’ve come to understand is very important to hold close. The “here and now”. Being grounded. It sounds very simple and it is for children that are raised in loving and validating environments.

I’ll get back to gaslighting now. I was 21 and had partially moved out of my parents house, and was living with a girl who had her own issues (Christ, that’s another post). She was my first real love relationship. We would talk about our experiences.
My mom kept calling me and asking me why I hated her and why I was so mean to her. One night, my girlfriend convinced me to confront my parents. That’s what I did. I set an appointment with my mom. I told her that “if you want to know why I am so pissed off at you, I’ll be there on this day at this time “. She said ok.

I show up and I’m pumped up with angst. I was nervous and pissed off. It didn’t matter. I asked about the constant beatings. I asked about the gun being pointed at me. I asked about my dad putting a gun in his mouth in front of me as a little boy while I was helping him load the trunk for a trip. God, road trips were terrible.

They denied it all and sat there with surprised looks on their faces. Dad in his chair and mom in her corner of the couch.

I left there feeling like a crazy person.

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« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2020, 01:42:12 PM »

I am so sorry, JNChell.  Denial, at the individual or group level, is a coping strategy in dysfunctional families. But it just makes things so much worse.  There is a real feeling (for me anyway) of unreality and - I don't know - confusion, stress and anxiety that comes with being confronted with a completely alternate rendition of reality recounted by a family who seemingly completely believes his/her alternate reality. 
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JNChell
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« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2020, 01:55:43 PM »

Yeah. It’s a total disconnect. Crazy making behaviors. You know, own your PLEASE READ type stuff. Be virtuous. At least try! It’s just a bad message to send out. Denial is further abuse. I’m glad that they aren’t around to know my Son. Anyway, I’m sorry for going deep or sounding pissed off. One of those days. Thank you for being there.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2020, 02:03:10 PM by JNChell » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2020, 03:51:56 PM »

Damn!
Sorry you had to spill that but glad you did.
Humans. Wonder what goes on in a hyena pack.
Your having the p/o day, I have em. We both know it passes. We can only account for our own actions now.
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« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2020, 04:00:39 PM »

Wow ... your post hit home. Although at 75, with both elderly parents gone, I clearly remember many abusive incidents from childhood. I got out, got an education, and married a 'normal' man who helped me see what was really going on. I realized that there was no point in confronting either parent about the past, they would just look at me as if I was crazy, deny it, and then gang up on me for even bringing it up and falsely accusing them of such horrible things. In Al-Anon (for adult children of alcoholics) they talked of forgiving the person for what they had done. My reply: "I can't forgive them, because what they did to a child is inexcusable; it is now considered child abuse. However, I can let the past go. But forgive and absolve them? NO."
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JNChell
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« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2020, 04:40:39 PM »

Hyenas are very wild mammals. Magnificent to watch on TV. Relentless scavengers. The #1 enemy of the lion. Getting paid means work. I just gotta keep working. Bless you. It’s very hard and at weak times it seems very unfair. No child should be built to feel that.
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JNChell
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« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2020, 04:54:58 PM »

can't forgive them, because what they did to a child is inexcusable; it is now considered child abuse. However, I can let the past go. But forgive and absolve them? NO

I applaud you for this. I think that forced forgiveness is wrong and lazy.  I’ve not come across anyone else to say it that clearly. I’d buy you breakfast in the morning, but we gotta be realistic. Neither one of us is making that trip for meat and eggs.

I’m glad to see that you stood up to your group. I stand beside you 100%. I don’t know what was done to you. Are you willing to share? I’m not going to read your back story because I’m a total narcissist.

Bad joke, I want to hear everything because you are an elder. That’s my narcissism. What happened. Your feelings. How it feels later in life. I think that a lot of people discount older people. Personally, I think that this is a grand platform to speak your mind. I wish that we were sitting in chairs and chatting.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that you did the right thing.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2020, 05:08:02 PM by JNChell » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2020, 02:17:19 AM »

Thank you for your support. And yes, it is good to talk about it and I occasionally still do. For people on the outside, who have never experienced our crazy  home lives, they cannot fathom the depth of the disorder and why you can't just approach it and deal with it like a normal adult. I realized when I was 13 that these people were nuts, and if I allowed it, they would drag me into it and make me crazy, too. I put up an emotional wall. While in college, I figured out that what ever I did couldn't make them happy, so I just need to move ahead and do what I need to do. Needless to say, that created many problems and a lot of drama over the years. As the younger daughter, they really tried to control me, but it generally wasn't successful. My older brother was the male heir and the golden child. I tried to be a 'good' daughter, but it is never enough. Unfortunately, my father (age 93) died first; he could somewhat control the crazy paranoia and outbursts of my mother, but with him gone, the situation worsened. After my husband's heart attack (about 3 years before my father died), I made a firm boundary with my mother, that I could no longer be around her when she was raging; then she really went after me. But I stuck to it.
 
However, she got her revenge; about 3 years after my father died, in collusion with my brother and his wife, ignoring my father's wishes she secretly redid the trust and disinherited me. They kept the secret for 7 years, until shortly before she died (at age 97+), my brother was feeling guilty and told me about it. It was now my fault that in the next day of visiting with her (I live out of state) we didn't rectify the issue and change the will. That was crazy thinking: she was old, and ill, not the time to bring it up. He chose to justify his behavior by believing all the horrible things she has said about me. I will not stoop to his level, so didn't tell him all the horrible things she said about he and his wife. He chose to act like a 10 year old bully, made up stories of terrible things other people said about me (when asked, they didn't say it), resorted to name calling, and I ended up deciding to take my life back. Unfortunately my mother has treated me like that, but I will not allow that behavior from him.

I have taken the high road and not wallowed in the mud with him. Apparently my telling him I didn't want to have much to do with him in the future really shook him up, but he did reply that I was still 'a money grubbing opportunist' since I had pushed back that our father wanted the estate split between us (as was in the original trust). Fortunately my husband is wise and compassionate, and we spent months talking it all through. The image of 'Wonder Woman' fending off slings and arrows with her magic bracelets helped a great deal, as well as the lyrics of the Helen Reddy song, 'I am Woman,' specifically ... 'you can bend but you can't break me.'

I am a retired professional, with a great career, the same husband of 50+ years, friends, and am well regarded in the community. I do not need people in my life who demean me or wish me ill. It was very difficult, but I am glad I did it. It has been 3 years since we have spoken. In the meantime, he and his wife have both had unusual and serious cancers, while I am fine. Karma is a bit%*. I wake up each day with immense gratitude for the life I have made.

I have been to Al-Anon (for adult children of alcoholics), which was a huge help (about age 50), but have never had therapy. A professional therapist would have gotten to this end much faster and easier; I have talked at length with my wise friends, nieces (his daughters, who are like my own; another sordid tale there) and husband. After about a year the sadness lifted, and I am OK and whole again and have a wonderful life. But to think, at age 71, I had to revisit all the crazy stuff from the past and divorce a family member. Nuts. It was supposed to be he and I against them (the BPD mother and enabling father), but he abandoned me and I got thrown under the bus. I doubt there will ever be an apology or acknowledgment of what they did. He and his wife have to live with their actions.

I was not the bad guy, all I did was set a reasonable boundary with my mother, and that set all the rest of this in motion. I knew there would be consequences, but not this bad. She would never forget a slight or a perceived wrong, was emotionally unstable, could be violent, could rage at only a slight provocation, and was vengeful. She was like this my entire life. Fortunately I moved away, so that helped. And there was relief when she died. What a terrible legacy; no grief for your own mother.

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« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2020, 06:29:13 AM »

Living Life...WOW, well done and I am so sorry to read of what you have been through but you have courage and strength which is all yours and worth more than any inheritance.

I am still wobbling along trying to find the strength to mentally disinherit myself so that I am no longer sucked in to the drama or obligation and lure of inheritance. The golden carrot that gets dangled every time my parents are struggling and need me or to triangulate my brother.
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« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2020, 12:47:36 PM »

There was a huge uproar when I set my boundary with my mother. Thinking as a normal adult, I had no idea of how bad it would get. However, at the time, I did say to my husband that one of my concerns is she would disinherit me. And I had no inkling over those years, from either my brother, SIL or mother, of the secret of the disinheritance.

My husband said we can get along without the money. And we have. Thinking he would fix it, ultimately my brother did give me 1/2 of my father's share of the estate, and now I should be grateful for his generosity.  Thank you. But I pointed out that as the sole inheritor, he has the ability to portion it out as he pleases; his adult children are not going to sue the estate. That statement made him quite angry. My mother specified that he solely inherited, but he was to disperse the money to his 4 adult children to be used for their retirement.

He sat on the money, put it in he and his wife's family trust, and didn't disperse it as he was supposed to, to his 4 adult children. The oldest daughter (56) has a low paying job, as does her husband and has struggled financially all of her life; she lost her home through a bad mortgage and is renting. I gifted her a downpayment for a house. This changed her life. And I have gifted money to the other 3.

2nd daughter (the two eldest are his wife's stepdaughters) had a big verbal fight with him that if he died first, she didn't think his wife would give the oldest two their rightful inheritance from their grandmother. She told him she didn't want to talk to him again and went to therapy at age 54. This rattled him, because she was walking away the way I did. Finally, feeling guilty, with cancer treatments in the past and possible covid in the future, he released all the money to his 4 adult children and paid off eldest daughters home.

My formerly always dependable, calm, hard working older brother turns out to be just like my mother. After writing so much about this, it appears as if I had long ago come to terms with my mother; I didn't like her or what she did, but for the family I always tried to be a good, dutiful daughter and keep the peace. Fighting with her was no win and ugly, so I avoided it. My brother was the ultimate betrayal. Walking away was very difficult, but a necessary step in my healing.

A sad, but not unusual story. I have since heard from attorneys and accountants that many families breakup when the last parent dies.
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« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2020, 06:28:11 PM »

JNChell:
Excerpt
If an abusive event was really bad, I’d get a box of baseball cards to go through. The less severe events (which were horrific) would be forgotten almost immediately and my mom would give me bits of food while she was cooking
 Classic.  My father, H, and I always referred to these as "peace offerings" from my uBPD mom.  It was the closest thing possible to an apology Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

Excerpt
I show up and I’m pumped up with angst. I was nervous and pissed off. It didn’t matter. I asked about the constant beatings. I asked about the gun being pointed at me. I asked about my dad putting a gun in his mouth in front of me as a little boy while I was helping him load the trunk for a trip. God, road trips were terrible. They denied it all and sat there with surprised looks on their faces. Dad in his chair and mom in her corner of the couch.  I left there feeling like a crazy person.

This is the worst form of gaslighting.  JNChell I'm so sad you had to go through this.  But I get the sense you are also a fighter - and by that I mean you are fighting to be a survivor - in a good way.  You want to rise above all this.  You are working at it.  It's hard work, and sometimes you fall down, but I get the sense you always try to pick yourself back up, dust off, and you keep working away it.

I find inspiration in this.  You have suffered through some terrible childhood experiences, but you keep on trying to work through it and never give up.  You ask for help when you need it.  Life happens, but you keep on trying.  I think that takes a pretty special person. Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
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JNChell
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« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2020, 02:34:14 AM »

“Peace offerings”. That makes sense. Thank you for your kind words. Much appreciated.
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« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2020, 10:18:12 PM »

JNChell.,

You are so strong to have survived...thanks for being so open.  i relate to the gaslighting...my mum and bad would beat each other up and scream and yell and the next day they would act like nothing happened.
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JNChell
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« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2020, 11:22:39 PM »

Zabava. It was a crazy existence, yeah? It still is sometimes.
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JNChell
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« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2020, 11:24:49 PM »

Acting like nothing happened is what has stuck with me. S5’’s does it and it totally  Cursing - won't cause site restrictions at Starbucks (click to insert in post)’s with me.
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« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2020, 09:31:00 PM »

JNChell, I am very sorry for what you have been through.  You are certainly not alone in your experience.  There was a time when I was an elementary school aged child and my mother suddenly grabbed me by the throat (as it turned out, over a slight she had completely imagined).  When I tried to speak to her about it shortly after, she denied it, cried, called me, among other things, "ungrateful", demanded I apologize, and sent me away.  That has stuck with me all my life and I have long said it was even more damaging than the physical violence.  I'm no longer in contact with her but it is the reason why I still feel (decades later) that attempting to have a conversation with her about our past would only do more harm than good.  She is incapable of having the reckoning with herself that I need.  I hope you have some healthy relationships in your life now and can find the peace and validation that you needed and deserved.
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JNChell
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« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2020, 10:40:40 PM »

Hey there, d211. Thank you for the kind words. I do have a small, but a very strong and safe circle of support. Great friends. Your mom grabbing you by the throat was not okay. Her gaslighting was even worse. I’m very sorry about that. This stuff just makes me cringe anymore. Once I was able to see past my own nose, it became a weird to understand how many people have been through this stuff. It’s also concerning to know that children are going through it at this very moment. I feel so bad for the children. I wish that I could do something for them.

Gaslighting is crazy making. I’m glad that you were able to get past it in tact and bring your story here. Your support means a lot to this community.
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« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2020, 06:26:59 PM »

I am guilty of raising my daughter in a situation very similar to the above posts.
  Daughter is 21 now and wife is out of house.
My daughter is smart, always conferred with me and others very adult like from an early age... happy... but angry
  We talk about it all probably too much. She does see (talk, with a therapist).
   My bad. My wife’s bad.
 Don’t know what to say except she shouldn’t have been subjected to it all.
  Years of insanity before I finally filed for divorce.
 I had a couple comments from friend  and sibling Which I always remember. I was/ am so much trying to “save” my wife I didn’t see totally the other victim.
  My best friend said. “If that was your daughters boyfriend doing this to her what would you do?”
 My sister said “ think of your child and not about ———this is not fair to her”.
And I grew up in a similar household. Ugh.
 
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JNChell
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« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2020, 06:44:26 PM »

Goosey, don’t beat yourself up. You just wanted to keep your family in tact. That’s what a man does and how a man thinks. Collateral damage seems to be congruent with these relationships. Bottom line, you’re here and she isn’t seeking this kind of support and help.

Growing up in a similar household is a given anymore. It’s the reason why. But, there is a large amount of people that are realizing this and chopping the head off the snake. It stops here and doesn’t move forward. You’re doing that and that is huge.

Maybe try to figure out a way to explain to your daughter. Don’t bash anyone, especially mom. Study if you have to. I bet that she would appreciate some solid insight from Dad. She’s old enough to process things and understand what reality is.
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