Very Sudden Crisis Leading to Divorce

[DS2020]

Hi all, I posted a long thread over in the saving/improving a relationship board titled Very Sudden Crisis Part 1 and Part 2. Cliff notes is that my wife of 20 years, in a period of very high stress precipitated by a number of issues, but primarily the fact that our son left for college (she had a very unhealthy obsession/fear about his health, his eating, his sleeping, etc.) suddenly announced she was moving out and wanted a divorce, and wanted it quickly. She also has a new boyfriend that may or may not be in the picture for long.

She is being very amicable and conciliatory and has set up a Zoom call this afternoon with an attorney that is supposed to be impartial and essentially mediate things and hopefully file all the paperwork. Just wanted to know what to expect? What questions should I ask? We all know how pwBDP can react suddenly to things, so I don't want to trigger any sort of a reaction that will spoil her conciliatory approach. I have resigned myself to this at this point. I continue to think that she will wake up one day and say "what the heck have I done", but she is as determined as I have ever seen her to move forward with this.

Thanks in advance for any advice. We have one 16 year old child and one 18 year old that just started college. The 16 year old will remain with me in the house. My wife seems to accept that, and hopes that she will forgive her at some point.

[livednlearned]

Hi DS2020, sorry for what brings you to this board, and glad you reached out for support.

One small heads up. A lot of us here on this board went through high-conflict divorces with high-conflict people (HCPs), which is BPD on steroids. High-conflict people are described as recruiting negative advocates, have a target of blame (usually you), are persuasive blamers, AND have a personality disorder. All HCPs have a personality disorder but not all people with BPD are HCP.

Some of us had BPD exes who are dangerous and not cooperative. By dangerous, I mean substance abuse, domestic violence, child abuse, a history of making false allegations.

There are others who had exes who were not dangerous and not cooperative. If you are particularly lucky, your wife will be not dangerous and generally cooperative, and won't be a HCP.

However, the legal system can really set the stage for HCP type conditions. You'll be using the best of the skills you learned on the Bettering/Saving board and some new ones that are specific when things hit the legal system. You may want to order a copy of Splitting: Protecting Yourself When Divorcing a BPD/NPD Spouse by Bill Eddy. He's a former social worker turned family law attorney and wrote a book specifically for those of us threading this particular needle of BPD and family law.

Is your wife expecting that you two will share a lawyer? Are you both living in the same house?

For this first meeting, until you feel confident that you understand what's happening, I would stick to questions about how the process works where you live. Straight up information gathering and listening so you can buy yourself some time.

[worriedStepmom]

I highly recommend that you consult with another lawyer after this meeting.  You don't have to hire them, but you need to know exactly what your rights are under the laws of your state.  Because your wife found this lawyer, the lawyer will be working for HER and looking at for HER interests, not yours.

My H and his uBPDxw did their divorce as you describe your W wants - collaboratively with a lawyer that xw found.  It worked out okay, mainly because they didn't have much in assets or debt and they agreed on child custody. 

It may work out fine for you.  But be careful what you agree to in writing until you have consulted with someone with your best interests in mind.

The major things you will be worried about
-Custody of the youngest - who makes legal decisions and when does she go where
-Child support
-Who gets the house/how to get the title and mortgage transferred
-Asset division
-Debt division

[GaGrl]

Also, funding of college costs should be considered.

[livednlearned]

Hey DS2020, I read through your posts on Saving so I could better understand what's going on.

I'm so very very sorry for what you're going through, and how tragic this disease is to our families and BPD loved ones.

Do you think your wife is pressing for this divorce to avoid the shame of a physically intimate relationship with the new guy? I know it's hard to second-guess someone who is in a free fall. Still, I have to wonder why the rush.

It's like watching a split screen. She's remarkably self-aware on one hand and then breaking the things she treasures on the other.

You seem to have a very skilled way of communicating with her during all of this. You mention she is not verbally assaulting you, and is recognizing how her BPD has impacted her life and her family (while continuing to dismantle it...).

I know the divorce is hurtling at you super quick based on her actions here. It can also be a remarkably slow process, especially if there are kids. In my state you have to be separated a year before the divorce is finalized. In the meantime, there are so many big pieces that need to get sorted through that the actual divorce is almost a footnote. It'll be good for you to talk to a lawyer to make sure you understand how things work where you live.

My guess is that she's motivated to get a jump on the divorce for reasons that probably aren't very mature and definitely not well informed. Stalling things a bit might help flush out what's really going on (that she may not fully understand herself).

If true, that puts you in the agonizing position of ... not necessarily slowing this thing down, but more like not acting quickly, while she dysregulates in the hopes there is something left when it's over that can be saved.

Or, you use this opportunity to stabilize yourself and the kids while she goes through this crisis.

Either way, I guess what I'm trying to say is that no matter how hard she pushes, there will almost always be something that slows things down, even if you tried to speed it up. You won't have to work too hard to slow walk this.

Either way, you should get your own attorney.

Tender-hearted people can self-sabotage in ways that have long-lasting impacts on ourselves and our kids. A good attorney can at the very least shine some light on what the repercussions for doing that.

As an example, I was willing to give my ex the house and the entirety of his 401K. Due to his BPD, I spent as much money if not more just trying to give him the dang house. I should've said I wanted half knowing that it would take the proceeds from the sale just to pay for the legal headaches that he made worse. And he's an attorney! Whatever functional competence held him together at work went missing when he walked through the doors of the court house.

[DS2020]

Wow, thank you all. You are such a supportive group. I am glad I am here. Let me try to address some of the questions and comments.

Do you think your wife is pressing for this divorce to avoid the shame of a physically intimate relationship with the new guy?

100% yes. She has admitted that. The degree of intimacy I'm not sure about, but she has said that she is rushing this for that exact reason. It makes no logical sense.

My guess is that she's motivated to get a jump on the divorce for reasons that probably aren't very mature and definitely not well informed. Stalling things a bit might help flush out what's really going on (that she may not fully understand herself).

Again, absolutely correct, and I initially tried to use a stall strategy expecting her to snap out of it or have a full on breakdown, but as she outwardly became more sure and convinced of her decision, I gradually backed off and fully cooperated. If she persists, it is definitely in my best interest to be as amicable as possible.

We had the session today and the attorney was easy to work with. He stated that in this state he can only technically work for one client, but that since we had both agreed upon everything, it should not be a problem. My wife then chimed in and said to me that if I would prefer him to represent me, she would be fine with that. The three of us agreed he would technically work for me but we would copy all three of us on all communications so that no one is working behind the others back. We have agreed on all the general terms and unless there are any roadblocks, this could get done in 30 days or so.

The problem of course is she has BPD and things can swing very quickly. Her mother called me tonight and she said that my wife (her daughter) is starting to melt down. She is frantic about having lost something again, to no one's surprise she is starting to fight with her boyfriend more regularly, etc. My MIL is frantic and praying that her daughter will somehow make a last second change of heart and now also praying that I will accept her back if she does.

The terms of the agreement seem awful to me based on what I have had to endure, but compared to what the law allows for, it is pretty good.

Yes, I actually have the Splitting book. Thanks for the reminder. I will have to read it. I bought it many years ago when I actually thought we would be divorcing.

Unfortunately, I envision things ending very badly for my wife. Despite my flaws, I have been the stabilizing force in her life and without that, I fear for her. I hope I am wrong.

[DS2020]

Oh, livednlearned, yes my wife can be as HCP as they come. The bizarre thing is that she has been as nice and conciliatory towards me as she ever has been in our 20 years of marriage. She calls or texts saying she is just asking about me and how I'm doing, she has repeatedly said how she just wants me to be happy, etc. I am being pleasant in response although I am being understandably withdrawn. It will do me no good to vent or lash out.

[GaGrl]

My husband's ex had told him he could have a divorce whenever he wanted it. She moved out, with no plans to divorce, everc(long story, but she is from an Asian culture that expects that women past child-hearing age do pretty much whatever they want). They had not lived together for 13 years.

So H and I reconnected after having been teen crushers ( more than that...), and she readily agreed to a divorce.

Then she went into BPD entitlement mode, and it took mine months to finalize a divorce that should have been done in 30 days.

Be careful.

[Turkish]

If the lawyer technically agreed to work for you, I hope you documented that. Even so, take advantage of she being easy to work with now and follow through with your ability not to stir up unnecessary conflict until the papers are filed and signed.

My ex was similar to your wife. On One level, she admitted that she was "sick" (in her words), but she was too committed to escaping into her newer, better life. She was also wrapped up in her "teenage" romance.

I hired a lawyer (she didn't even want to file custody papers with the court... We weren't married). She was served through mail, sparing her the humiliation of being served by a stranger though we discussed that her brother could serve her. 

Done, the custody and CS stipulation was filed and returned signed by the court less than two months later.

As for coming to her senses, she actually did ask to come back, 3 years later... while still legally married (though kind of physically separated) from the guy she left me for. 

She left the house February of 2014, when our daughter was 1 and our son just turning 4. To this day, the kids still wish for us to be together  and we co-parent ok.

Though last night, the kids were driving her to drama and she told them, "i can't wait until Daddy gets here to take you!" *sigh*

[ForeverDad]

Be aware of your two decades married to a person with BPD (pwBPD).  How did your marriage last that long?  Likely it was due in part to you being more compliant and appeasing than a typical person would be.  Is that you?  Then be warned... you will likely be too-nice and too-fair in your settlement.  I'm not saying you can't be fair but don't shortchange yourself in an attempt to "appear" super-fair.

Frankly, infidelity is the oldest historical basis for divorce.  You have every right to divorce.  And no obligation to convince her not to divorce.  You can let her go without guilt.  Just realize the FOG we here often face... Fear, Obligation, Guilt.

Quite possibly a year or two down the road and you'll have come to realize a divorce was such a Gift to you.

[DS2020]

Thanks again for all the comments and suggestions. It seems that first meeting with the attorney has triggered what I thought would have been triggered weeks ago. It started with a text or two last night from her about this being so sad and so surreal. First thing this morning I get texts that say how she is struggling and how she has made such a mess of her life and how she knows she can't come back now. Followed by her stating that she wants the best for me and how I don't deserve someone like her. I have not responded. I am concerned that she will really spiral downhill from here. Apparently the boyfriend who was so enamored with her and was adoring her is starting to have his fill and has told her that he cannot fight like this with her on a daily basis.
The truth is that she is attractive, charming, engaging, intelligent, witty, very extroverted, etc.
She is also classic BPD - impulsive, emotionally dysregulates, jealous, controlling, poor executive functioning skills, oh and she also initiates inappropriate relationships with other men as her drug of choice in times of stress.

[worriedStepmom]

It's not surprising that talking to the lawyer made all of this more "real" to your wife and sparked a dysregulation.  She may very well continue to spiral downward as she faces the consequences of her actions.

It's no longer your job to rescue her from that ... BUT ... you may want to provide some soothing to keep her calm enough to finish the divorce.

[livednlearned]

It seems that first meeting with the attorney has triggered what I thought would have been triggered weeks ago.

DS2020, do you feel that divorce is inevitable at this point? I know it's a hard question to answer. If she were to change her mind, or have a meltdown that requires hospitalization, would that mean anything to you at this point?

When she starts to receive envelopes with legal notices and the horrible legal language that they contain, she will likely be triggered tenfold.

It might help us figure out how best to support you knowing where you're at with values and goals on divorcing her.

Also, the relationship you have with MIL is similar to what my H has with his ex-MIL. They are friendly to this day, and she even spends the holidays with us when the kids are with us. You both want your wife to be ok and get help and that's a good shared goal. But it might mean that you have to be extra clear in what you want -- that alliance does have a personal agenda for her that may be different than what's best for you.

[DS2020]

Very good points livenlearned. Shortly after my last post, she called me again and send she thinks she needs to go inpatient somewhere for treatment. I began helping her mother investigate options. I will always want to help when I can. By mid afternoon, she called again, she had purchased 4 books on BPD, had already spent a couple hours reading them and was fully accepting of her diagnosis and also accepting that her behaviors had caused all this. She once again said she wants to move forward with the divorce, she knows she is not capable of loving someone right now. She then strangely restated the thought of maybe we could get back together again in a few years if she was in a better place at that time. She also states that she will try to work on her issues through reading, therapy, and support groups, and if that does not get her the help she needs, she will seek in-patient intensive treatment.

DS2020, do you feel that divorce is inevitable at this point?

Probably so. I have reached the point where I am far more accepting of it than I was a few weeks ago. The only way I would consider taking her back at this point would be first, she would have to want that (obviously), second, I would have to be convinced that she was very serious about ongoing therapy and acceptance of her condition, with a commitment to do so for more than just a couple days or a couple weeks, and finally I would require a postnuptial agreement that would include terms similar to what we have agreed to with this proposed divorce. She has been very amicable and agreeable to me with this divorce, mostly because she feels such guilt and shame. The next time could be a completely different story. I'm definitely not willing to take that chance.

Also, the relationship you have with MIL is similar to what my H has with his ex-MIL. They are friendly to this day, and she even spends the holidays with us when the kids are with us. You both want your wife to be ok and get help and that's a good shared goal. But it might mean that you have to be extra clear in what you want -- that alliance does have a personal agenda for her that may be different than what's best for you.

Yes, we are very close and always have been. We are both aware of the potential conflict of interest in that she would prefer her daughter to stay married to me, when in fact that may not be in my best interest. We are very honest with each other and can discuss that in a mature way. I even discussed our potential financial agreements in the divorce with her, knowing that she wants her daughter to be protected as much as possible. We are able to have those discussions.
In some ways, we are closer than the two of them. I think we have always leaned on each other and respected the fact that we could have discussions based on reality and not the wild emotional swings of my wife. But very good point. I will make sure I am not influenced by that built in agenda that she obviously has.

I appreciate your comments and insight.

[ForeverDad]

She once again said she wants to move forward with the divorce, she knows she is not capable of loving someone right now. She then strangely restated the thought of maybe we could get back together again in a few years if she was in a better place at that time.

Here is some perspective on what the future may hold.  Her point was that it is not wise to promise too much, the future will take care of itself.

One of our most prolific posters some 5-10 years ago was JoannaK.  In a few of her posts she made an observation that meshes well with your comments.  She wrote that if persons do work to attain some recovery then they would not be the same persons as before and there was a real possibility the relationship would not survive, one or both had changed that much.

[TrulyMadlyDeeply]

I just wanted to say that...what, 17 years ago, when my now uBPD H and I were dating, he once commented that he would like to reach back out to me in seven years (or some number, can't remember), just to see if I were single.

It was such an odd thing to say. If we didn't work out for the present, what would a future meet-up do?

Thought I should mention that I think it's a way of feeling like there could be future stability or security. That I (and you) won't be a door that's closed forever. That there will always be a way back in. That we may be mad now or upset, but that we will do what we have always done: make excuses and let them back in.

Like my therapist says, these people are "emotional vampires who will take and take and take until there is nothing left." My H once said last year that he "took and took" from me "without ever giving me anything back." Interesting.

Hugs and clarity to you.

[myinnertorch]

Hey DS2020

I am in the same soup as you, albeit our circumstances are different in that my uBPD wife of almost 18 years filed for divorce, tried to serve me through the mail as I am working away from home, the USPS did not follow through on the Certified Mail/Restricted Delivery procedure so she never got the hard evidence in the form of the postcard back so she could take it to the courthouse to finish the filing and start the timer for my response. That was over a month ago, since then we had decent contact via the phone and text. I planned on returning home at the end of this month.

Unfortunately I am still trying to find a job at home, during my last conversation with her, we addressed the subject of my returning home and she strongly advised me not to come home without a job, which makes sense. In that conversation she also told me that one of her first priorities when I return home was to go to the courthouse and file for divorce, in her words "I will not be held hostage in this home". The conversation escalated into her delusion of reality in that she never wanted me to leave to take this job, when in fact she helped me get this job. When I reflected this back to her, she hung up and has been NC since, except for a text in which she asked me to file for divorce, serve her and stop playing games. She is also rushing this process with wreckless abandon. I do not believe she his seeing someone, but she has made it clear that she wants to go "live her life" which we all know means finding another hapless victim.

My advice, tread very carefully, because as others have mentioned in this thread, you never know who you are going to be dealing with on any given day or minute.

Use this time to try and do as much healing as you can. Work on yourself and try and prepare for a life without this woman. I know it is very difficult, I know that you are hoping her new love interest will go up in flames...

I think you have to think like her in how people with BPD can so easily disengage and then re-engage, believing someone will always be prepared to take them back. Unfortunately in my circumstance, my wife seems hell bent on this divorce. There is no second guessing, no remorse, no "I want you back"...perhaps she is HCP, which in combination with BPD is one formidable force to deal with.

Focus on yourself and your family...that is what I am trying to do. My 15 year old daughter is under her care, I am desperately trying to get home to protect her. I hope I can soon!

Be well and stay strong. 

[DS2020]

Thank you so much my myinnertorch, and trulymadlydeeply as well.
I am paying the attorney today to begin his work, and so far everything still remains amicable between us. Since we have essentially agreed on everything, this could be a pretty quick process. I'm sorry to hear about your situation torch, it does sound like there are a fair amount of similarities. It definitely doesn't help that you are having the stress of having to find a job at the same time that this is happening.

My advice, tread very carefully, because as others have mentioned in this thread, you never know who you are going to be dealing with on any given day or minute.

That is for sure! I have 20 plus years of emotional scars from thinking things are a certain way only to be surprised by the sudden and unexplained change. She continues to actually take this disorder seriously and read about it, acknowledge it, etc. It amazes me because I begged her for 20 years to accept this, and I was always met with anger and denial.
I did get a little taste of her rage again yesterday. Our daughter continues to resent her and what she did, and probably crossed the line and said disparaging things to her about her infidelities. She apparently started yelling at my daughter and then called me and continued the outburst.

I am continuing to take care of myself and my kids. I even have managed to drop about 10 lbs through exercising and eating less (though that is stress induced).

In some ways I really am not hoping her new love interest goes up in flames. Although he has his own mental health issues, from what I know about him I don't think he is a bad person with bad intentions. And if his influence is helping her to get the help she needs, then I'd rather see that continue. I am evolved enough that I am not looking for a "told you so" moment. She is still the mother of our children, and I'd prefer her to be as healthy as possible, with or without me. And at this point, it looks like without me. I'll move on. It will take time, but that's ok.
Thanks again for all the help.

[myinnertorch]

It seems that you are approaching this with as much as a level head as you can hold with the situation. I hope she continues to hold herself in check as you go through this process. Maybe this guy is a grounding influence and will give you the time to get through this without her going off the deep end.

All the best!

[mart555]

It's no longer your job to rescue her from that ... BUT ... you may want to provide some soothing to keep her calm enough to finish the divorce.

Once the genie is out of the bottle it's not going back in..  so yes, thread carefully.  My experience however is that you can thread carefully at first but once the pwBPD realizes that she / he won't be getting what they feel entitled to,  everything explodes. 

[DS2020]

So the divorce seems to be moving forward quickly and amicably. No fighting. The guilt and shame she feels is still driving her desire not to fight me over issues. Quite honestly, it has been the longest stretch of kindness and agreeableness she has shown to me in our 20 plus years together. She has been moving back into somewhat of an idealization of me for the last couple days. Still calling me, praising me, saying things like "I know I can't come back now, but I think often about you, and I realize what I'm going to be missing." It seems like the new boyfriend is not living up to expectations (surprise, surprise). I did say to her this morning "If you don't mind, I would like to offer one piece of advice. Try not to focus on others' flaws, or areas where they differ from you, or don't live up to your expectation at that moment in time. It only leads to discontent. Try to focus on the positives." My daughter at home still wants nothing to do with her, and my son who is away at college tolerates the phone calls, but is really just happy to be away from her constant obsessiveness. When I told her that the kids and I might be out of state visiting my brother and his family over Christmas, she was quite upset, but seemed to be able to hold it together. It is kind of amazing, because in the past, something like that would have triggered a nuclear explosion.

I am starting to feel better. The waves of sadness and loneliness are waning. I am enjoying the calmness and appreciating the comfort of being able to walk in the door and know what is awaiting me, instead of walking on eggshells and fearing what today's anger might be about. She continues her counseling and seems to have much more insight than ever before. I still however am concerned that she will have a full breakdown, particularly as we get closer to divorce finalization. Knowing what I know and experiencing what I have experienced over the last 20 years, I'm just not sure I see her handling this very well. I hope I'm wrong.

[Waddams]

Skimmed briefly - if she wants out quick and will agree to fair or even advantageous terms to you because she's in a hurry to go get with her new happy meal, take advantage. Regarding future reconciliation - leave that as an option in your head but get the best deal you can for yourself and to protect what's left of the stability of your home for your kids. Compartmentalize, take care of you and the kids, and separate reconciliation from divorce terms in your thinking.

Remember - she may want to come back one day, but she also may not regardless of if the things do or don't last long with new guy. Don't stake your future on her coming back, don't agree to onerous terms to appease her and show her what a great guy you are. Protect your future as best you can now because you're only gonna get one shot at this, having to go back to court sucks even worse and is usually harder to get anything done because you have to justify something has changed since original orders were issued and it's of a severity that it deserves court action.

Then, when it's all done, the divorce is settled, etc. - remember this - for her to want to come back she has to miss you first. That means giving her the space to miss you, ie - become absent from her life. Go work on rebuilding yourself into a better version of yourself. It will make you more attractive should she start missing you, and it will make you more attractive to a potentially new partner should you decide you are moving on, it will make your value stand out more to your kids and garner higher levels of respect and esteem, and it will make you more attractive to your own eyes when you look in the mirror (which is the most important part actually - you're own peace of mind about yourself).

[DS2020]

Thanks Waddams, that's pretty much exactly how I am viewing this. I'm trying to take any emotion out of it and proceed in the most logical manner possible. I am envisioning how people would be advising me if they had my best interest in mind. Getting a reasonable (possibly advantageous) order, with basically zero legal fees, getting the house in my name, keeping my daughter at home with me, no acrimony, etc. seems to be the way to go. If somehow, someway wo both wanted to reconnect in the future, then who knows. But I'm certainly not expecting that, or frankly even hoping for that in the future at this point. And if it ever were to happen, I would have much better control, and would be able to dictate the terms.

Your advice is very good. I am working out, I've lost 10 pounds, and I'm starting to feel better about myself physically and mentally.

[livednlearned]

I'm just not sure I see her handling this very well

My concern would be the legal letters that go out and the kind of inflammatory (adversarial) language that's built into the system.

It's one thing to be on a phone listening to a reasonable lawyer help walk people through. It's another to get the actual legal language in hand.

We tend to associate plaintiff/defendant to criminal law, so even that language alone can be hard to overcome.

I wonder if there is a way to offset some of that so that she can go through this process without feeling blindsided by the legal parts and related language.

[formflier]

Skimmed briefly - if she wants out quick and will agree to fair or even advantageous terms to you because she's in a hurry to go get with her new happy meal, take advantage. 

Agree to her desire for speed and make sure you get a massively good deal out of it.

If she ever wants to come back AND you are interested, get a iron clad prenup.

 

Best,

FF

[DS2020]

For sure FF. Very sound advice, and I wouldn't think of doing anything less! Livednlearned, yes I am worried about how she will react at the various stages of this process. At this point, I don't envision it triggering some sort of anger towards me, but you never know. I think a far more likely scenario will be some sort of breakdown or deep depression. Just tonight she called me to tell me that she is going alone on a 4 day trip she was planning to leave for tomorrow morning with her new "boyfriend". I guess she disinvited him and maybe broke up with him. I didn't ask. She is now in the phase where she is devaluing him and elevating me. I've been around long enough to understand these things and see them for what they are. Thanks to you both for the advice!