Everyone on the outside thinks my wife is the perfect mother Part 2

[Serenitywithin]

This is a continuation of a previous thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=346664.0;all

Latrodge,  

Thank you so much! Yes I feel you were in my shoes and your words stuck home!

I am at my. Family hunting cabin with my son this weekend and had a short conversation with him to let him know I am here to talk to him if he ever needs me to. I said I know your sisters have been upset with some things at home and if you need to talk about any of it I am here for you and will never be mad if you need to talk ... I said I know you have heard mom and I argue, and that it can be confusing.  I said I try very hard not to argue with your mom and I love her but sometimes she remembers things differently than we do and gets upset at me or you girls or even at you!  I told him I know that sometimes she may say thing last and then pretend she did not or may say other things that may seem untrue to you sometimes.  I looked over at him driving us in the side by side and he was looking a little bit away with a couple tears on his cheacks.  I told him that it was ok if he remembered things that mommy said did not happen and that if he ever gets upset by anything , even if it is at me, that he can pull me aside and talk anytime...

I also found and read a book callled stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist..  it had some very eye opening parts to it and basically said that if you decide to stay in a relationship with a bpd that you must do so with eyes wide open that they have a mental illness and are more than likely to never truly change ...  it said that you can work on yourself and better the relationship, but they will almost certainly always be the way they are no matter how
Much you love and take care of them .. it had a lot of
Detachment advise to find yourself again and learn to live
With you bpd if you so choose, a lot
Of
The book made
A tone of
Sense but I am afraid that no matter what I may be able to deal with and understand that the kids don’t. Get to make the same choices I do because they are stuck with her being able to dictate things to them and it is harder for them to excessive the things I am able to do.  
Like you I keep wondering if staying is the right thing for the kids. I have been uplifted a bit as in counseling with my pastor he said he would have already left and he ahas a lot of respect for how I have handled things so far.  He also said there are several people who have seen her or rather seen through her and that they have made mention of how well I handle these things.

But I struggle with my commitments and vows. And if I make the hard decision to leave I also fear the courts and the possibility that she could fool the court and the kids end up in a worse situation if she got more time.  The lawyer I consulted seemed to think we should be able to get 50/50 or better of kids saw phycholgist and we got that testimony.  That was almost 3 years ago now though and both of the old girls now 12 and 15 understand what is going on and if asked for the truth I think would now go an long way for 50-50 or for me to have more than 50-50.   Which I think would be good for the kids...

I am also in the fog about her well-being as I feel if I left she would. It be able to function and would fall apart and if I pushed for more than 50-50 or even at 50-50 she would not be able to handle the Separation and would fall apart.   I do care for
My wife very much and have a ton of compassion and empathy towards her...  

This book that I read said that is part of what keeps us tied to our bpd... but it also says that if you stay you need to mourn the hope that they will seek treatment and get better otherwise we will always be living
With false hope wishing for something that won’t happen...

So I guess I am still torn in what my future will need to be to be the best for all involved.

[Notwendy]

I don't think there's an absolute one way to manage this. For some people- dissolving the marriage is the best course, but for others they don't choose this. Each situation is different in many ways, even if the commonality is a spouse with BPD.

Either decision is also going to affect the people involved. Perhaps the best solution is to do what you can to mitigate the effects of both staying or leaving.

The other common is the spouse or parter- you. We all play a role in these types of relationships and have "matching" behaviors even if they are not exactly the same. Some common ones are enabling and co-dependent behaviors. Whether staying or leaving- working on our own part in the relationship can help mitigate some of the drama. It doesn't change the other person. It changes our responses.

Some people see this as catering or accommodating the person with BPD. It's not that at all. When we work on our own part, we gain the skills and these then can be ours to have for any relationship- parents, children, friends, colleagues. We also learn to set a different example for our own children.

At the age of your children, I saw my mother as the "bad guy" and my father as the "good guy" who was also a victim of her behavior. However, I also didn't understand why he tolerated it as much as he did. It was only when I had to look at my own co-dependent behavior that I began to understand his role in the situation. This is not to blame him. The understanding resulted in empathy, not confusion.

So a main question is- in or out of the marriage aside- how can you be your best authentic self in your family. How can you be the best you can be? This is about you.

You can leave your marriage but there is another relationship here that isn't yours. It's between your wife and your children. She may be your ex wife one day or not, but she is still your children's mother. In some situations an adult child needs to break contact with an abusive parent, but this isn't an easy decision. On the other hand, an adult child may need to keep an emotional distance from a dysfunctional parent but still wish to maintain contact with them. These decisions aren't easy but keep in mind- this isn't your relationship to manage- it's theirs.

Your job as a parent is to protect the children as much as you can, but also give them the tools to manage as adults. Will they know it's OK to be their own authentic selves in a relationship, not be enablers while still being kind and respectful? You can role model that for them. You can also role model that it is OK to seek help from a mental health professional or pastor if they need it.

Yes, you need to grieve the hope. But you are also role modeling that you do care about your wife- whether you stay married or not, and that's your honest self. You just need to put caring about yourself into this picture as well. One thing that helped me to not enable as much was to realize that enabling isn't caring. It's self motivated- we are avoiding conflict for ourselves. And not enabling is caring if it lets the person learn to manage their own discomfort.

Keep reading and learning...

[Serenitywithin]

I don't think there's an absolute one way to manage this. For some people- dissolving the marriage is the best course, but for others they don't choose this. Each situation is different in many ways, even if the commonality is a spouse with BPD.

Either decision is also going to affect the people involved. Perhaps the best solution is to do what you can to mitigate the effects of both staying or leaving.

The other common is the spouse or parter- you. We all play a role in these types of relationships and have "matching" behaviors even if they are not exactly the same. Some common ones are enabling and co-dependent behaviors. Whether staying or leaving- working on our own part in the relationship can help mitigate some of the drama. It doesn't change the other person. It changes our responses.

Some people see this as catering or accommodating the person with BPD. It's not that at all. When we work on our own part, we gain the skills and these then can be ours to have for any relationship- parents, children, friends, colleagues. We also learn to set a different example for our own children.

At the age of your children, I saw my mother as the "bad guy" and my father as the "good guy" who was also a victim of her behavior. However, I also didn't understand why he tolerated it as much as he did. It was only when I had to look at my own co-dependent behavior that I began to understand his role in the situation. This is not to blame him. The understanding resulted in empathy, not confusion.

S

So HAs anyone seen or come across books for younger Teens to help explain the Splitting, Gaslighting, and Dissociation that the kids mother experiences or directs at them. I have been talking quite a bit to my two older Daughters because they have been asking me questions.

I would love to find a book geared towards , 12 -16 years olds that can help explain things to them without going to in-depth? I just don't want all of what they are currently hearing on the subject to come from me, even though we are having shared experiences of Mommy not remembering things or saying things and then lying about them later(in the kids eyes) ?

[Serenitywithin]

Not Wendy ,  My kids are questioning why I let her get a way with it.. My D15 even regularly says , Why are you still married to her? She is never gonna change! And she always threatens to leave, why doesn't she already!/// But she is also worried about it, because D3 is the center of moms universe right now.  and she always follow it up with If mom leaves what are we gonna do if she takes the baby.


So part of my decision making process is if I stay, do I reinforce this bad relationship and that it is OK to be treated the way me or the kids are sometimes if you love someone?

I finally got on the books with My T to talk about it this Friday.

[globalnomad]

Hey Serenitywithin. I've been offline for a week and am only just catching up with your thread. I'm sorry to hear that you are grappling with many of the same type of issues that I am. It's so uncanny how similar many of our experiences can be. I too struggle with the "should I stay or should I go" question and failing to reach acceptance on either option often feels me stuck in a kind of limbo.

I am also a very logical thinker, and sometimes I think that doesn't help as I tend to overanalyze and expect rational responses. Also my kids are younger than yours. But I do wonder at what point they will start to wonder about their mothers' behavior and I will need to have ways to talk to them about it. So this is a helpful thread. I hope you're having a peaceful day.

[Serenitywithin]

Thanks Globalnamod.

My kids were abut 8-9 when I started hearing She is lying about their mom when she would get onto them and say I told them to do this and they wont listen, or I told them that if they didn't listen they would get XYZ...

Both of My Daughters went from super outgoing talkative, to almost introverts now. They go to their room after school and dont come out. .. One of our good friends told me recently he and his wife know what is going on to some extent. But he said he is afraid of what it is doing to my D12 the most as he has seen the changes in her the most over the last 3 years. She dont make eye contact, barely talks and used to be so outspoken.

It was bout when my oldest was 11 she always said her mom hated her and because of that has lost a lot of self esteem.  They they both net to therapy with me around this time after I forced the wife into it. she has started and quit twice now but during the few session that my then 11, 9 and 8 yr olds did go to the T said that mommy lies sometimes and they were scared of her when she got mad and I was not home. That was 3 years ago. and after she agreed to counseling things sorta got better but then when the BPD DX came she quit and went to another  and then quit after about 6 sessions even though she had said he was good and was going to help her.

I think I really jsut put my head in the sand to some extent since recently I have foudn that they are still being impacted when I am not home.

[Notwendy]

Are the kids in therapy? I think if anyone is to work with them about their mother, it would need to be someone neutral and experienced with this situation.

Of course they are impacted either way if you stay or leave. I guess it's about mitigating the impact. But the other point I wanted to make is that she's always their mother regardless of what you do.

In my case, the times of relative quiet from it was due to my father's family and we were able to spend a lot of time with them, away from my BPD mother. I don't feel she ever loved me much either, but I know now that it is more about her than me, but it does affect self esteem. It would be good if your daughters had some safe sources for self esteem, like doing well in school, a church group, an invested relative to spend time with them. I owe a lot to my father's family and good friends who truly liked me.

[Latrodge]

Serenity,
Yes, my BPDw went through several counselors/therapists once I pressed on her about her issues.  Even though she read books on BPD and the patterns were so clear (to me and both sides of the family, anyway) she was only half-hearted and would quit.  She would tell me "well, the T says I don't have BPD", but I always wondered how honest she was with them.  She is very charming, and I believe she has Narcissistic traits as well, so I always assumed she put on the best spin in front of the T.  I just didn't see it as that productive.  Only after the domestic violence conviction last year did she really dig in to any kind of help.  But it was court-ordered, and her actions still exhibit a lot of emotional ups and downs - so the jury is still out on that, as well. One thing that became clear as it relates to my children, is that my relationship with them (and any future grandkids), would be impaired by my BPDw.  They would deal with me and not with her.  I just don't see how its possible to be that bridge for the rest of our life. Basically staying with a BPD means that almost all of your other relationships will be impaired.