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Author Topic: Wife says she's leaving after reading through my texts on my phone  (Read 415 times)
RestlessWanderer
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« on: October 11, 2020, 11:33:39 AM »

I made the mistake of letting my uBPDw see my cell phone last night. She told me she needed it to receive a confirmation code via text since her phone doesn't have service where we live. I had a bad feeling and shouldn't have handed it over to her. I gave her the benefit of the doubt and trusted that she wouldn't go prying around. But I was wrong. This is the second time she has done this too. I have nothing to hide, and I know this to be true. But something she read set her off. When she threw my phone onto the floor at my feet I could see that it was open to the messages from an old friend/ex-girlfriend. The last message from her was in June, so my wife had been scrolling for a while to get to those messages. The majority of those messages were her checking in to see how I was dealing with the grief of losing my son last October. In one message I made mention of the fact that the length of our relationship was second only to my marriage. I was thinking of asking her if I was anywhere near the type of parter that my wife says I am. My wife quoted this message and a couple of others as she called me worthless, a liar, a coward, a cheater. She demanded that I leave immediately. Thankfully I have the trailer next door to go to, so I went without saying a word. I knew better than to JADE. I didn't want her to act out violently so I left without saying a word. She called me a few more times to tell me not to come over to the house at all. She said she didn't want me to "mind f*#k" our son any more. This morning she brought me over a letter that basically says the same things she said in her rants, phone calls, and an email she sent me.
She says she is going to leave and file for divorce...again.

We had been doing better over the last couple of weeks. We were going to seek out a therapist for us so we could try to build on that positive feeling. I had been doing a better job of not invalidating her. I had been actively trying to show her gestures that spoke her love language, actions. I had been showing her affection and many parts of our relationship were taking steps in the right direction.

Even if we found some way to work through this, I have strong doubts that she would never refer to the messages she read again. I don't think she would ever keep from holding those things (or her interpretation of what she read) over my head. This would be yet another thing from my past that she keeps locked away in case of emergency.

I'm sorry if I'm starting to ramble here. I know I'm not really asking any questions, but I wanted to post on here for support I guess. This is our cycle, she dysregulates and I look for someone to listen to me and help me see things more clearly.
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« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2020, 03:42:47 PM »

Do you think she really intends to follow through on divorce, or is she trying to manipulate you through threats?
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« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2020, 07:43:05 PM »

It doesn’t matter. I’m moving forward with the divorce myself. I spoke with my attorney this morning.
She is now trying to keep me from seeing him. I am sending her text messages asking to see him and she is responding saying no. This is giving me documented proof. She is now playing dirty.
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« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2020, 07:13:34 AM »


What are the chances she knows your passwords and pin numbers.

I recommend you change them.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2020, 08:44:59 AM »

It doesn’t matter. I’m moving forward with the divorce myself. I spoke with my attorney this morning.
She is now trying to keep me from seeing him. I am sending her text messages asking to see him and she is responding saying no. This is giving me documented proof. She is now playing dirty.
Same dysfunctional cycle happening at my end. My wife forced me first into speaking to a lawyer and then when I actually did so along with her, post the call started dysregulating again (from threats to leave and kill herself to most atrocious abuses to clinginess). I suggested therapy to her and to motivate her even offered me going along for a therapy myself but she is totally averse to taking one.

FYI, I once had therapy myself in past and when she got to know, all hell broke loose - as per her, how come I went behind her to crib about her and I tried explaining to her to no avail that therapy is not about cribbing about someone rather to help regulate emotions/behavior to be better able to deal with stressful situations.

What could be the reason for her resistance to avoid taking therapy?
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« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2020, 09:50:19 AM »


Restlesswanderer

Was there anything in those texts that a reasonable person would think is "flirting" or something in that line of thinking? (I get the vibe there is not, but lets make sure..please read them again).

Hey...from the 30,000 foot view it strikes me that this and lots of your recent story is NOT about texts and other details, although those seem to provide a convenient excuse.

Let's look at our "axioms".

1.  We have a person that doesn't regulate emotions well.

2.  We have the same person that went through one of the most emotional/stressful life events imaginable (loss of a child and perhaps this person is somewhat responsible...the car wreck thing)

3.  We have this persons spouse is already frazzled because of BPDish stuff

4.  Same issue for this person, dealing with intense emotions due to loss of a child.


We also know that many marriages (BPDish or otherwise) don't survive the loss of a child.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/contemplating-divorce/201706/can-marriage-survive-when-your-child-dies-under-your-watch


I'm so sorry this happened in your life and that I've brought it up again.

My purpose is for you to reflect and clear you head before proceeding (with any path). 

I can't disagree with your choice to call the lawyer and get things rolling there/make sure you understand them.  That being said, we know that the best way to move through conflict with a pwBPD is to "remove the oxygen" and let it burn out.

Please understand the "pathway" to reducing conflict/moving through this dysregulation is very different than ending the marriage, therefore it's critical that you have a clear head and regulated emotions when making these decisions.

Best,

FF



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RestlessWanderer
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« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2020, 12:10:42 PM »

Thanks FF
I don’t know if the way I’m handling this is the “best” way, but it is the best way that I am currently equipped to handle it. To avoid triggering her further I am not responding to her accusations or insults. If she is asking me something that I feel won’t trigger anything I will interact then. I have asked to see/speak with my son, which she has refused using the rationale that he is under the impression that they are on a special vacation (similar to our father/son camping trips this summer).
So, despite the fact  that I was committed to improving our relationship and working hard to learn more about the tools and how to use them, this experience is crossing a boundary similar to her violent actions in the past. In fact it is my fear of escalating to violence that is keeping me subdued. I just don’t want to live like this any more.
Unfortunately, by keeping quiet, she is not getting the response from me that she may be seeking which, in some ways, is also triggering her. I’m afraid that by attempting to discuss what she did and falsely assumed what I did it may be more likely that I would react emotionally and further complicate the issue. So, I think that I’m choosing the path right now that adds the least amount of fuel. Also I don’t want to give her anything that could be used against me (true or not) in the future.
I am sad that this is happening and that she is basing all of this on something that is not true at all. But going through this is just another example of what I would have to endure for the rest of my life should I choose to remain in the marriage. Not to mention that her distrust of me would grow exponentially.
So, I think that the smartest and safest course of action is to dissolve the marriage and begin the healing for both of us. It is more valuable to model a healthy relationship to my young son than to teach him that stoically enduring verbal, emotional, and sometimes physical abuse is normal.
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« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2020, 01:02:04 PM »

  I just don’t want to live like this any more.

This is important, remember this....hold this conviction close to you.



Unfortunately, by keeping quiet, she is not getting the response from me that she may be seeking which, in some ways, is also triggering her.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=85479.0

What do you think after reading this article?

  But going through this is just another example of what I would have to endure for the rest of my life should I choose to remain in the marriage. Not to mention that her distrust of me would grow exponentially.
 

How do you know this is true?  This statement and analysis kinda makes it seem like there is no choice...which makes me curious how you sorted this out and if it is really true.

Best,

FF
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RestlessWanderer
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« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2020, 05:34:15 PM »

Thank you for this FF. I hadn’t considered an extinction burst. I’m glad I stuck to my guns and didn’t give any rewards for that behavior. Today she calmed down and asked me to join them in the hotel where they have been staying. I am now with my son.

I see what you meant by my usage of absolute terminology in that last statement. Never say never. However I do feel like this would be yet another thing she would use to hold over me and would likely increase her distrust. I’m not sure how to deal with this part of the situation. I don’t want to JADE, and her assumption of what was going on in the messages is wrong, so what should be done to handle this?
Maybe (if she is willing to talk calmly) I could say “I know how you feel about cheating and I understand why you reacted that way. But I am not an adulterer, nor have I ever considered it. I never discussed anything about you or our relationship with her. In fact more than 10 years have passed since we last spoke. When she heard about our son’s death she reached out to see how we were doing and had checked in every couple of months, even worrying about your health.”
Does that sound ok? It’s BIFF, and yes a little JADE.
What do you think FF?
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« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2020, 08:40:08 PM »

Why even bring it up again? That would indicate to your wife that you’re still thinking about her.

If she says anything, you’ve got a reply ready. But better that you don’t mention it.
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« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2020, 11:23:38 PM »

Restless, I am sorry about your losing a child.  This is incredibly painful and the wounds must still be fresh.   Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

That said, I am going to play the devil's advocate, Restless.  Why is this ex girlfriend even in touch with you? What benefit are you getting out of keeping contact with an ex?  Her condolences might be considerate and kind, but what sort of emotional attachment do you have with this ex, whom I presume was a sexual partner? Once a person breaks up with a romantic partner, contact is over.  To maintain contact really dishonors the current partner, unless, of course, there are minor children.

Lots of questionable behaviour going on here:  you keeping in contact with an ex, and your wife not respecting your privacy and snooping around.

I have to question the motives of your ex contacting you if the R/S is over.  What does she stand to gain by reaching out to you?  Again, the compassion might be sincere.  I have no idea on what terms you broke up.

Your W snooping is totally out of line, but did she suspect your keeping in touch with this old flame?  IMO, once a romantic R/S ends and another begins, including marriage, contact with the former lover should be over.  Period.  A BPD is insecure enough without even hinting at your previous R/Ss.

Your discussing your marital unhappiness to a former lover was poor judgement.  It is a betrayal of trust between you and your W.  Emotions you were expressing to your ex are best reserved for the T.

How would you feel if your W secretly discussed your marriage with a former lover or H?  My H is uBPD and is enmeshed with his adult children, especially his adults Ds.  He went behind my back to complain about our marriage.  This one D then took it upon herself to call me on the phone and rip into me about how I "abused" her F.  (She is likely BPD herself.)  A pwBPD could not see how complaining to a child about his marriage is an act of betrayal to the spouse and a breach of boundaries.  I hope you see what I am getting at here. Your W has every right to feel betrayed.  Flying off the handle, however, is very BPD.

Understand that pwBPD are not normal and don't respect boundaries.  They will snoop, and they will dig for something to anger them and make them feel threatened.  In future, you might wish to limit circumstances that will allow your wife to snoop into your private affairs and confidences.  

Finally, divorce threats are common in BPDs.  For years, my H regularly made divorce threats when he was angry with me, which was often.  He was projecting his rage at his uNPD X W and her cheating and leaving him, and taking the small children.  Be cautious, though, as one day a BPD can easily devalue you and serve you with divorce papers, making up all kinds of lies to the courts to get them in their favour.




« Last Edit: October 13, 2020, 11:40:47 PM by AskingWhy » Logged
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« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2020, 06:59:48 AM »

Why even bring it up again? That would indicate to your wife that you’re still thinking about her.

If she says anything, you’ve got a reply ready. But better that you don’t mention it.

This...focus on this. 

Take a 30,000 foot view of your answer/speech.

1.  Your mind is on the woman.
2.  You are denying and invalidating the way your wife feels
3.   You are reminding your wife of the death.
4.  You are reminding your wife of her health issues.

Sigh...

How about this.

Blah blah blah, you were spanking this woman and making her holler...blah blah blah  (note...hollering is a southern thing, we can discuss separately for those who are curious)

(think like a politician in a debate or on the news...forget what was actually asked, go to your stump speech).

"Oh babe...can I reassure you?"  (gentle and neutral tone)

Here is the FF challenge.  Think about several other things you can say that are similar to my suggestion and post those here.  What do you think about those types of responses?

Best,

FF

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« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2020, 01:39:54 PM »

Restless, I want to add a word of advice on couples counseling.  Make sure you choose a T that understands the dynamics of BPD.  BPDs can be charming to others when they want to, and it's part of their Jekyll and Hyde PD.  The face they choose to show the T will be winning and charming and you will be made out to be the crazy one.  Trust me on this.

Years ago, when my H called me the worst names, punched holes in walls, threw furniture, made weekly divorce threats, etc. we decided to go to therapy. I had been crying and upset each time my uBPD H dysregulated and had a melt down, and yet he blamed me for my tears.  I am sure my H did, and still does, believe his dysregulations were justified.  His actions, violent and terrifying to me, in his mind, were a direct outcome of what I did or said.  (Abusive spouses, mostly men, say this to doctors and police officers about battered wives. "She deserved it.") Well, the counselor sided with H in the first 30 minutes of session, and when I was in tears, the T actually shouted at me and told me I had better "straighten up" or I would lose the man who "loved" me.  It was utterly unreal.  Yet this is the reality of the BPD.  BPD have a talent for distorting reality to fit their vision of what is truth.

I suggest you interview the counselor you are considering before agreeing to a course of couples therapy.  Many Ts see each member of the couple privately.  Even in this instance, your T might be unaware of BPD.   At first, I met with the T and she actually offered to give me the name of a divorce attorney.  But after speaking with my H, she was eating out of his hand!  She totally bought into his version of the R/S!  The next couples meeting I was made out to be the unbalanced, angry partner.

You don't want to waste money the way I did.  We stuck with this counselor for several more sessions (hundreds of dollars) until H gave me an ultimatum of my agreeing that his dysregulations and violence were caused by me.  I chose not to agree.  In the middle of the session, H got up and walked out, leaving the T dumbfounded.  I spent the rest of the session explaining to her H's cognitive distortions, in so many words, letting her know she had been wrong about H all long, that he took her for a fool, then thanking her for her time and ending the therapeutic R/S.   The irony is that this T is still in practice and "specializes" in counseling battered women!  Of course, on the drive home, I was subjected to the usually verbal abuse and divorce threats about why I was such an idiot, that I didn't want to take the advice of the T, that I was a stubborn b%itch, etc.

Choosing the wrong T, one who is ignorant of BPD, can actually work against you and make things worse.  
« Last Edit: October 14, 2020, 01:49:54 PM by AskingWhy » Logged
RestlessWanderer
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« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2020, 02:41:08 PM »

As much as I try I can’t think of anything to say that I can’t anticipate an angry response to. And it’s not the anger I fear rather it’s the belief that I don’t think anything I can say would be helpful at all.
She says that she can’t t trust anything I say.
If I say “I am not a cheater, I have never cheated, and I will never cheat “ She is probably going to say “BS! Then why are you reminiscing with your ex?”
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« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2020, 02:56:31 PM »

If I say “I am not a cheater, I have never cheated, and I will never cheat “ She is probably going to say “BS! Then why are you reminiscing with your ex?”

In a way, you have betrayed your W by giving confidences of your marriage to your X GF.  You now have to do damage control.  

You were indeed reminiscing about your R/S with your X in a way.  You made a comparison of your R/S with your W to that with her.  You may not have cheated with a sexual affair, but you betrayed your W with confidences with an old flame.  I would be angry too.

Years ago, my uBPD H's X W was divorcing her second H, the one she cheated with and married after leaving him. What his X W did to him emotionally damaged him.  His X was illegally trying to hide property for the marital asset split.  H told his adult children that they could bring the property to our house, in essence, abetting a criminal act.  I was livid.  I asked him why he was helping his X considering what she did to him.  I told him to get his children to take the property to their own homes.  

Look at your first post.

The last message from her was in June, so my wife had been scrolling for a while to get to those messages. The majority of those messages were her checking in to see how I was dealing with the grief of losing my son last October. In one message I made mention of the fact that the length of our relationship was second only to my marriage. I was thinking of asking her if I was anywhere near the type of partner that my wife says I am. My wife quoted this message and a couple of others as she called me worthless, a liar, a coward, a cheater.

You were, conscious of not, comparing your marriage to the R/S with your X.    You may not be "worthless, a liar, a coward, a cheater," but your should never, ever compare your wife to an X GF.  Ever.  
« Last Edit: October 14, 2020, 03:02:52 PM by AskingWhy » Logged
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« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2020, 03:37:47 PM »


If I say “I am not a cheater, I have never cheated, and I will never cheat “ She is probably going to say “BS! Then why are you reminiscing with your ex?”

Yes...and see how there is not a direct answer, the issue shifts from cheating to reminiscing...

The bar will keep moving.  So...don't engage in the first place.

Best

FF
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« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2020, 08:27:32 PM »

I’m pissed
More than any other emotion I’m pissed off. I’m mad because I’ve tolerated emotional, psychological, verbal, and physical abuse for years. I’m mad because I’m spite of all of that I worked hard to support my family, be a good father, and be a good husband. I’m especially mad because of the hypocritical double standard. She has remained in contact with at least one ex. He and several other men have been making advances to her for years, even sexting her. She not only hasn’t blocked their numbers, she has saved their contact info. I never once got mad about that. I didn’t like it, but wasn’t gonna waste energy by getting upset about it. And she thinks that because she has told me that she is in the right.
Yes, I sent text messages to an ex girlfriend. We never flirted. We never discussed our relationships. We never tried to meet up or even talk on the phone.  I came close to asking her how I was as a boyfriend/partner to see if I was anywhere near what my wife says I am. But I never did. I have talked to a couple of friends and family members about things that I did and how my wife responded to see if she was overreacting or if she was entitled to her reactions. I always made sure I told them that she’s not evil, mean, or even a bitch. Maybe I shouldn’t have done that. Yes, I have lied to her. I was a coward and would rather tell her a lie because I feared irrational angry responses. It was short sided of me because lying only made things worse. That being said, things I was honest about have been thrown in my face over and over again.
I’m mad that In order to have a healthy relationship with her I have to learn how to talk to her in a way that non BPD people don’t. I was still working on learning this anyway.
Yes, I let myself become distant because my feelings were hurt every time she became dysregulated. I was supposed to learn to let it roll off. I got better at that, but nowhere near perfect.
I reached out to friends because I couldn’t express to my wife frustration over anything or even talk about a bad day. When I did it would often be either “you don’t know what bad is” or “if you would have don’t what I told you that wouldn’t have happened.” We couldn’t even agree to disagree because she would either gut upset because I would try to show her where she was incorrect about something or she would simply say I was stubborn and just wanted to argue.
And now, she is saying she is going to make my life hell because of all of this.

Maybe I am completely wrong. Maybe I do deserve this. But I don’t think so. I think I’m still a good person. I still think that I was never so bad a husband or father that anything I ever did deserved anything that she did.
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« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2020, 11:18:34 PM »

I’m pissed
More than any other emotion I’m pissed off. I’m mad because I’ve tolerated emotional, psychological, verbal, and physical abuse for years. I’m mad because I’m spite of all of that I worked hard to support my family, be a good father, and be a good husband. I’m especially mad because of the hypocritical double standard.

Restless, now I know where you are coming from.   Virtual hug (click to insert in post)  Yes, the double standard is very common in BPDs.  I have heard it called the one sided contract.  For instance, my uBPD H will tolerate an untold amount of abuse from his adult children(manipulation and emotional blackmail), but if I do something that even remotely upsets him, I get a divorce threat.

Anger is a common reaction to being in a R/S with a pwBPD.  The outrage is in part just because of the double standard.  This shows the degree of the reality distortion they experience.

There is a sense of feeling cheated out of a normal, healthy marriage, and your anger is understandable.  It is very unfair.  In most cases, our BPD partners showed us only their "good" Jekyll side, and not the Hyde they would later on.  The good side was to win us over.  When we fell in love with them, the real side came out.

Go ahead and feel anger.  Anger is not a bad emotion.  It is the response when someone has hurt us deliberately.  Believe me, as I continue (to choose, mind you) to live with a uBPD H, the emotion I feel when he comes home from work is annoyance at his presence and anger.  My H called me names, put his adult children ahead of me (in one case, one of his children threatened violence and he did nothing to protect me), punched holes in the walls of the house, overturns and breaks furniture and frequently tells me he will divorce me.  (We have been married for 25 years.)  His actions have decreased someone, but I am concerned that he will dysregulate again, and go back to his old ways.



« Last Edit: October 14, 2020, 11:35:15 PM by AskingWhy » Logged
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« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2020, 12:11:58 AM »

AW, I appreciate that you made me take a hard look at myself. I can see how some decisions I made contributed to this trouble. But I can’t help but see that this pattern of extreme reactions that are completely disproportionate to whatever is upsetting my SO and often unjustified, are wearing me down.
I’m sorry that you are living like so many of us, waiting for the other shoe to drop. That fearful anticipation has dominated my life so much over the last few years. I want to know what a healthy happy rs is actually like. I don’t want to get so jaded that I stop believing that happiness in a marriage is actually a real thing that I can have.
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