intro post: undiagnosed BPD spouse/3kids together/desperate for insights/help

[hopingforhelp]

Hi community! I am so grateful to Randi for this interface. I am beside myself. I have been married to my husband for 14 years. We have 3 kids: twins--13yo, daughter--10yo. We live in a gorgeous setting but have a small house. I say that to say this: it's extremely difficult to shield my kids from our fights/issues due to close proximity.

Here's the most immediate issue I am desperately trying to navigate positively. EVERY TIME, and I promise I am not exaggerating, I leave for any reason (ie. my dad had heart attack and on verge of death in AZ, or once in a decade weekend girls' trip, doesn't matter how legitimate), my husband gets some physical ailment, and then won't talk to me. Full on silent treatment. That used to devastate me, then I built a tolerance to it, then I got sick of walking on eggshells, then I found a counselor who said perhaps just maybe, he may be BPD. He cheated on me years ago, and ditched counseling the minute they tried to help him see and understand why he did what he did. Full on refused to continue. He seems unable to face anything he's ever done that isn't perfect.

Last week, one of my god sisters was having a huge mental health crisis in AZ, so I hopped a flight and was back in 24 hrs. I literally flew down, dealt with the situation, then flew immediately back. He has not spoken to me since, except to say that he and the kids were fine and I could've/should've stayed longer. Again, we have a small house. The kids sense the tension. We have (sadly) gotten used to coexisting without talking. Every time I pass by, he does a really deep, loud sigh. Yes, he now has a cold. (Again, any time we are fighting, he ALWAYS gets physical symptoms.) Any time we have an issue, it's ALWAYS my fault. I know BPD is mental illness, and I get that he probably can't help it/see his own behavior. So I have to figure out how to coexist if I am to be okay.

I love him. There is so much good, or I'd never have stayed in this relationship as long as I have. He's not physical. He's not violent. He just won't take responsibility for anything, it's always my fault, he won't take a walk or leave the house so he and I can talk it out so the kids don't have to hear us fight, and he gives me silent treatment any time I leave. So I left last Wednesday, came back Thursday, hasn't spoken to me since. It's Monday.

I understand emotionally he is in pain (if he was just being a jerk, it would be different). He shows up when we're not fighting, generally (ie. helps with the kids, cooks, cleans, brings me snacks/drink while I'm working --I work from home--etc). But this is not good for me or the kids. I don't want my daughter to think it's ok for a man to treat her like this, neither do I want my sons to think it's okay to treat someone like this.

I don't know how to break the cycle except to be quietly kind, wait him for him to come to me--I've never been able to wait that long historically. After 3-4 days I'll force the conversation, and it won't be pretty, but it gets him out of his funk. I read Stop Walking on Eggshells, I'm going to read Randi's new book, but I am desperate for advice from people who know.  I'm very much thinking about leaving him, but am very cautious because he is not from America so has no immediate family support, has refused to make family friends (has friends at work but unwilling to ever forge family friendships), I have way fewer friends than I did when we met, so we've isolated ourselves and he is not open to changing that. That's a flag. I'm starving for connection. But I have to protect our kids, and do this in the least disruptive way.

Sorry this is so long. I am just so glad to have found an outlet for help. Immediate feedback I'm seeking is: how do I deal with the silent treatment effectively? Is there hope for this marriage?

Thanks!

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[once removed]

hi hopingforhelp, and

youve been married a long time, and i can tell that you love your husband, and we all know that loving someone with bpd traits can be a struggle, to say the least. it wont be easy to change long standing dynamics, and certainly wont happen over night, but it can be done. theres a wealth of knowledge here, when it comes to how to do so.

one thing that i learned is that in trying to do so, things can sometimes get worse before they get better. its human nature really, when one partner tries to affect a change, but even more so with a hypervigilant and hypersensitive partner. its not necessarily an indicator that things arent "working" or that youre on the wrong path. at the same time, finding what works will require some trial and error.

for one example, preparing your partner ahead of time if youre going to be absent can go a long way. obviously thats not practical in every instance, or on short notice like your father having a heart attack. but at the end of the day, you love a needy person who needs a lot of hand holding and reassurance (to put it lightly). if you make preparing him ahead of time a regular practice, you may, over time, be able to get some ideas on what reassure and assuage his fears. he may likewise get some ideas for how to cope with them. but beyond that, ideally, when critical matters come up, and there is no preparing him, he may begin to cope better. there are no guarantees, but with consistency, over time, you can see improvement.

what kinds of things are the kids witnessing?

[hopingforhelp]

Hi! Thank you for the response. Prior to current silent treatment episode, the cycle would be we would be great for a few months, then some small thing would vault into him shutting down, being silently angry, silent treatment. I tried several things, but the only that seems to actually work is confronting him and full on forcing the conversation. He would try to walk away and 'talk about it tomorrow', but every time I respected that, tomorrow never ever came. It always takes me forcing it. It's ugly, sometimes it's loud, but it's almost always at night. To the extent possible, this happens late at night when the kids are hopefully asleep. They told me at one point that they just put headphones on and go their rooms. This breaks my heart. I just think we have to better than that. Never in my life have I ever encountered this type of personality disorder. We can't have a logical conversation. Every tool that has ever worked for me in my life does not translate with him. Anyway, kids are sometimes exposed to this fight (generally a few times a year), and notice the silent treatment. We just silently coexist and avoid each other and they see that. I think the longest he has given the silent treatment was a week. It's not healthy for any of us.

At this point, I have to try something I've never tried. I am no longer willing to push someone into talking to me if they don't want to, so I'm going to be silently kind. He needs to come to me. If it's a weekend and this is still going on, I just do something with the kids to get them away from it. They are caught in the middle, as much as that tears my heart out, and it is this which is forcing me to use every tool at my disposal to learn more effective communication. Whether I stay or go, I love this man and he is the father of my kids and I want the best possible relationship for all of our sakes. I just don't know how, or what that looks like. I need help from people who knows what this is and what works.

[once removed]

At this point, I have to try something I've never tried. I am no longer willing to push someone into talking to me if they don't want to, so I'm going to be silently kind. He needs to come to me.

theres a big picture in all of this.

the dynamic, as it stands, and has stood, is that you confront him and the two of you have it out. whether hes aware of it or not, it may be what hes waiting for. it may be the form of attention he is looking for, or at least is accustomed to.

while i think youre on the right track (dont push, and try to change the dynamic), it can also be a fine line. he may not have the skills, for lack of a better word, to come to you.

and if you simply adopt this strategy the next time this happens, its not likely to go well. it may look more like a power struggle.

dynamics between couples, whether they be healthy or unhealthy, deeply establish themselves over time, and shaking them up can make or break (strengthen or weaken) a relationship.

thats a really long way of saying that its possible that you will always (more or less) need to be the person who breaks the ice, and then things can become more constructive. its also possible that it can radically change over time!

but its also pretty likely that if you suddenly adopt this strategy, the two of you will be at a stalemate and stonewalling each other, and contempt and resentment will grow.

when you do confront him, it sounds like the two of you more or less get at the real issue, and move out of the stalemate. i suspect that may be the place where you can do a lot of relationship building. can you give us a better idea of how these conversations go? some examples, some he said/she said?

[hopingforhelp]

It generally starts with me asking if he's ready to talk about it or stating that we need to talk. He'll usually take this really deep breath out, and his breathing changes and it's like he just wants to run. It's hard to explain. His emotions just seem really close to the surface. Anyway, I try to be mindful during the discussion, but eventually lose it because he only wants to blame me. It can come to the point of divorce, but finally after a few hours, we have a meaningful discussion about whatever the issue is and we move on. But it takes badgering and relentless pursuit from me to get us to that point. Any more what I would consider reasonable approach (never in my life have I acted like that with anyone, and he probably would never tolerate from anyone else either), but nothing else has ever worked. You have to basically corner him and push til he finally gives in. In more peaceful moments, I've broached how that is unhealthy and not okay but he will either barely acknowledge or just leave the room. He will only discuss what he wants and doesn't want to be pushed, to be fair, who does, but he takes it next level.

[hopingforhelp]

When I think about it, when I try gentle, kind, approach, he dismisses it. When I give him a compliment, he barely acknowledges it, but is always pointing out what he does well and wants constant affirmation...but then rejects it when he gets it. So confusing. In confrontations, he responds only if you come off very authoritatively, but then he resents it, so it takes forever to get to resolution. There just has to be a better way.

[once removed]

hes saying and showing that he feels talked down to. hes uncomfortable with that.

there may not be a perfect way of avoiding that. a large part of it comes from a bpdish worldview, feeling lesser than, distrusting others, low self esteem. being ashamed of oneself, being ashamed of ones own actions.

ultimately, you want to work toward, and be on the same page. approaching conflicts as equals.

if hes dismissing your gentleness, your kindness, or your compliments, its because he senses that they arent genuine, are insincere, or are talking down to him. think about this hard. often times, we try to resolve conflict by telling our partners what we think they want to hear, or what we think will make the problem go away. and its in part a two way street...its worked for us in some cases, and our partners move the goal post.

it will help, especially initially, to do more listening than speaking. the more someone youre arguing with feels heard, the more credibility and room you have. sometimes it may even help to leave the conversation on that note, let the ice thaw, and then revisit it in a day or two...sometimes even revisit it again a day or two after that. it will also help you get a sense for where hes coming from. when you speak, ask questions. this is one of my favorite resources here, the power of validating questions: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273415.0

but you want to focus, long term, rather than just resolve the ongoing conflict. you want the fighting not to occur in front of the kids. thats especially worthwhile. its a goal to set, as partners, and as partners on the same page. its a goal to set where you each come up with rules you can play by, and hold each other accountable to. its a goal to set where you both have input. its a goal to set where you both say "this is not what either of us want, we are above this, what can we do to change it?".

likewise, you can apply this globally, to how the two of you resolve conflict as trust builds, which is really key to any progress youre going to make. you can, ideally, get into why he goes into the silent treatment, how he feels, how you feel, how you both cope with and approach it, each of you suggest alternatives, etc.

but i want to stress, it will take a lot of trust building, and it will take trial and error. prioritize the conflict(s).

[hopingforhelp]

Thank you for your input. I read it, considered it, recognize a lot of truth in it. I picked up the Stop Walking on Eggshell book to find one of the examples where Randi demonstrates through an example of what a healthier dialogue, with more listening and more validation, would go. I tried it. He was laying on the couch. It's 2am. Here's sample dialogue:

 I said something like, "I'm not going to force a conversation. I just want you to know that I can see you are struggling and are not really okay, and I just want you to know that I care." Before I even finished, he started shaking his head and saying I don't care. That he's been sick for the last week and I don't care. I care more about my people and have been texting and distracted and when I got to Phoenix last week, I didn't text that I had arrived and when my daughter called me, I told her I needed to be present where I was at. That I don't care about him. That the kids have been doing a good job taking care of him, and that he's tired of my games.

I reiterated at a few points throughout that if I could understand how hurtful that would be if it was true that I didn't care, but that I do see him and I do care. He didn't let me really get a word in. Then got up and checked on the kids. I went back to our room. He stayed on the couch.

Does that help give insight into how the convos go?

[hopingforhelp]

I refrained from defending myself (way more behind the story--we are talking a full on CRISIS involving police and psychiatric ward in Phoenix), but I did not deny or defend myself.

[once removed]

Does that help give insight into how the convos go?

it does, definitely, im glad you shared.

SWOE is a good place to start. its what has brought a lot of folks to recognizing what they are up against, and that there is hope.

i read a member here suggest a sort of chapter two and three, as a followup:

1. stop walking on eggshells introduces us to what we are up against
2. stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist introduces us to some of the things we do that arent helping
3. loving someone with borderline personality disorder introduces us to how to create the environment needed (if possible) for our relationship to thrive.

I care more about my people and have been texting and distracted and when I got to Phoenix last week, I didn't text that I had arrived and when my daughter called me, I told her I needed to be present where I was at.

this is what jumps out to me.

its an especially needy way of saying i need more interaction, more reassurance. its self centered, yes. its needy, yes. its impractical and not taking your own process into consideration, yes.

but again, you love a needy person, prone to feeling left out and/or rejected. hone in. in everything he said, its the most overt, and most workable thing he said.

[hopingforhelp]

Thank you. I really thank you. I am starting to feel like maybe I can breathe again. I'm going to keep reading and keep trying. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.