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Could it be BPD
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Brené Brown, PhD
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B53
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Broken up
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« Reply #60 on: December 11, 2020, 08:43:33 PM »

Cromwell, NL

Your points are valid.

My truth is, that I don't think he will ever be able to stop being triggered, over feeling slighted by some unconscious behavior, that I may, or may not do. I'm not going to say that he will never change, because I have eaten that never word, too many times. But I will say, close to never.

Take me out of the picture and let me play devil’s advocate, though I will use myself as an example. Who isn't manipulative, that's not just a BP trait, it's a human trait. We want what we want and most people will find a way to manipulate the situation to get it. It is just that some people do it in a blatant, hurtful way and others do it covertly. If it causes someone harm, that
is a different story. You could say, that him begging me to come back, could look like manipulation, because it plays on my heartstrings, but it’s only manipulation if he gets me to do something I don’t want to do, the other is free will. I would say that I am a rather skilled manipulator. Like flirting my way out of a speeding ticket, in my younger days. Being all comfy on the couch and saying in a pouty way, "I need to go pick up a prescription at the CVS. I reeeeally don't want to get up and go." 80 percent of the time, my SO will do it for me. When my kids were young, I would tell them, “lets see how long it takes you to run around the house, I will time you.” Then I would challenge them to beat their record. Beating their record becomes their only goal. It tires them out and they fall asleep faster at bed time. Relatively harmless, but manipulative, none the less.


My next point is, that most people on this site, when they talk about their BPD's, recovery is never on the table and there is never a circumstance, that makes it worth giving them another chance. Now, I know the people here are mentally beaten up and traumatized and a shell of their former self. They have trouble letting go, because the BP in their life, has such control over them, it’s hard to break away (not a judgment, an observation). Many people stay with their abuser for many reasons. I stayed with my abusive ex-husband as long as I did, because I couldn’t support my three kids. I ended up getting five, part -time jobs, but it was worth it. We feel their pain and we want to help, like others did for us. Pay it forward. But here’s the thing; no one ever encourages them, to try to get their BP to acknowledge that they need help, get into therapy and give it time to see if things get better. Basically because most of their stories are horrendous and it is futile and ending it, is probably for the best. But isn't that painting all BP's black. Throwing them in one big BP pile. The truth is a small group actually do get better, as the podcast, From Borderline to Beautiful, proves. You may get this kind of advice on another forum, but this forum is for detaching and the only advice is to run, save yourself and NC. Is it possible to be on this forum and have no other option? Not all BP's are at the same level and meet the same criteria. Someone who meets nine, isn’t same as some one who meets five. There is high functioning and low functioning and in between. Maybe the BPD’s with less destructive traits, could be put in a different category and different advice could be given to their distraught partner. I don't think I have said too many negative things about my ex, here, something that I have not read about anywhere else. If I say that my ex doesn't do that, then I’m told I'm in denial and if I want to participate in his recovery, then I am codependent and it may be very well true, that I am both of theses, but could there be any room here for another option? Does it have to be, one size fits all?

I don’t know, maybe this thought would make this forum ineffective.

Be kind, don’t beat me up too much, though I want to know your thoughts.

B53

PS, this is my Christmas advice, I give myself. The years I am in a relationship I would give my SO a nice gift. The years without a SO, can be sad, no partner, no gift. So on these years. I take the money that I would have spent on them and buy myself a nice gift. Best part is, that I always get the gift I want. Point is, be good to yourself!
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« Reply #61 on: December 12, 2020, 03:08:06 PM »

this forum is for detaching and the only advice is to run, save yourself and NC. Is it possible to be on this forum and have no other option?
But here’s the thing; no one ever encourages them, to try to get their BP to acknowledge that they need help, get into therapy and give it time to see if things get better. Basically because most of their stories are horrendous and it is futile and ending it, is probably for the best. But isn't that painting all BP's black. Throwing them in one big BP pile. The truth is a small group actually do get better, as the podcast, From Borderline to Beautiful, proves.

Hey B53,

my thoughts are that I can see how you might be feeling this way and I have seen some members say go no contact - but id dispute that it is mainstream advice, certainly not "everyone" and no other option. There some experienced members here and my belief is that they recommend to try and keep some contact. It does depend though, my situation I was told it was better not to.

Then eventually, as no one can control fate and luck - I met her by chance and we ended up having 3 weeks of texting and it brought a lot of unexpected healing and closure, so my thoughts are that it helped and im glad I got that opportunity, at least a few other members I know have experienced and reported similar. 

my thoughts are the longer I have been here, the sheer number of different relationship with BPD perspectives ive heard, the more balanced my view became. We also have biases to watch out for, even I will have my own as a result of the experience. Its easy to actually safeguard others from them, by simply not telling others what to do - I wont tell you more than "do what you want B53"
PS, this is my Christmas advice, I give myself.  I take the money that I would have spent on them and buy myself a nice gift. Best part is, that I always get the gift I want.

ive saved a lot by stopping to buy gifts, but its not the £ it is the regret, and who wants to feel the person to regret giving a gift? its awful.

the last 2.5 years ive bought so much for myself and regret none of it.
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B53
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Relationship status: Broken up
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« Reply #62 on: December 13, 2020, 09:51:26 PM »


Cromwell,

Thanks for your response. Sometimes I feel, like the BP reactions I read about, seem so similar even though their story is different. I can relate to their pain, but not always to their experiences. I feel like I am in a different category that doesn't fit here. I think it could be the generation gap. Even thought I lived during the free love time, of the 70’s, it was very different. I was with my ex for almost six months before we slept together. I don’t think there would have been as much recycling back then and it is not something I think I would tolerate, even now. But it didn’t happen, so I don’t know for sure.

I had a really good weekend. I had been going back and forth about whether or not to put Christmas lights outside. I am not going to be here, no one is coming to visit and I was in the dumps and didn’t care about the holiday. Then I thought that I have put up lights every year I have lived here and my house always looks pretty at Christmas. I told myself that I need to embrace the things I love, not sadness. Yesterday, during the day, my thoughts focused on my back and forth struggles I write about here. I know my bad experiences were real, but were my good experiences real?  I say yes to both. I say he didn’t manipulate me, any more than I did him and never once did I ever catch him in even the smallest white lie. My conclusion was, why am I wasting my time trying to figure this out. I made my decision and I need to be to confident, that it was the right one. The past is over and the future hasn’t happened. I have now and it’s up to me as to how I want to spend that time. So I forced myself to put up the lights and decorated my house. It felt good to be productive. That evening while sitting on the couch with the TV on in the background, surfing the internet, it felt like all the heaviness just lifted. I felt like my old self. I was actually hungry for the first time in a month and a half. My high blood pressure is close to or in the normal range.Today, I took my three mile walk, cleaned my whole downstairs and front porch, vacuumed out my car and took a table apart that my daughter wants me to bring, when I come to visit and I loaded it in my car. It feels so good to be back! So if he emails me, begs me to come back, I will deal with it when it happens. I don’t know what I’ll do and until then I don’t have to have an answer, to something that hasn’t happened. I need to be strong enough to make the correct decision, not one based on emotions. I give you and the others here credit, for helping me sort through it all.

When I said that I give myself a present when I don’t have an SO, there isn’t a person or face attached, so I don’t feel regret.  I forget that not everyone has to budget, so they can treat themselves whenever they want. I’m glad that you treat yourself well!

B53


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« Reply #63 on: December 14, 2020, 06:04:40 AM »

Excerpt
But here’s the thing; no one ever encourages them, to try to get their BP to acknowledge that they need help, get into therapy and give it time to see if things get better.

I think I did, just maybe not in the way you were considering it. I don't think healing can occur whilst you are together, because you are part of the historic system he needs to heal from, and I don't think you can be together in the different way that might allow him to decouple and recouple with you in the way he needs to.

It maybe that other more experienced members realise the probability of there being a happy ending is low, and/or the investment by you may not lead to any certain outcome vs going your own way.

I have by my own admittance been too hopeful for too long but then I see differences in your situation than my own... but all relationships are different even if there is commonality.

NL
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B53
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« Reply #64 on: December 14, 2020, 11:26:23 AM »

Thanks NL,
You did mention trying to be friends. I know that wouldn’t work because it would be too emotional and too easy to slip back into the old routine. Right now, we are both where we should be. I don’t write off giving it another try, but I realize that life could be better with someone who can love freely and life isn’t such a struggle. I am an introvert and love my alone time, but when it is not my choice, I feel trapped. I think if we were in the old normal, I might not even be looking back. Friday I am leaving to go to visit my daughter, her husband and grandchildren. I loved raising my children, but being a grandparent is the best. Their parent’s deal with the ups and downs and I get the fun and love. I’m looking forward to it.

You’re in the better position, daughter’s love their dads, but they are tough on their moms. My daughter still has no problem telling me if she doesn’t like what I’ m wearing or what I’m doing. My friends daughters are the same. It’s so true, when they say, they grow up fast.

Hope your day I’s going well.
B53


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Cromwell
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« Reply #65 on: December 14, 2020, 07:37:07 PM »

Hi B53

sounds like a very relaxing chill out time. good to hear. Things have been busy here and id use that as an excuse to what most folk (except for my ex) cant help but comment on "chaos", but my home, my workspace has always surface appeared as so (I know where every thing is and have proven it when ive had to).

I have a sort of budget since the past 2 months and it has worked in the sense ive stuck to it, but i manage somehow by not having one too, it is automatic and much of my life is intuitive. I do have helpers though, but thats intuitive too, I got a phone call this morning from a friend to tell me if I was awake that my exam starts in half an hour. I wasnt, but somehow I knew circumstances would lead me to doing it.

and in terms of BPD linkage, my ex just seamlessly became part of the environ including perhaps from what ive came to read now and if I accept the theory - unhealthily enmeshed. To be accurate, I go with this but the 'truth' is evasive and its also something I feel cant even be expressed in words as much as feelings, not to the full complexity that they are. attempts to get close, attempts from the other side to "relate" to "similarity" but theres still a vast gulf. yet somehow we manage all to help one another, we try, maybe thats what its about by itself - I think it is and I believe it made/makes a positive difference in the here and now. At least Ive found a lot of joy and sense of healing since you have joined here and had this opportunity to share experience to thank you for immeasurably.
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« Reply #66 on: December 15, 2020, 04:23:31 PM »

B53,

You know when you see lovers holding hands and spinning around in circles (normally on a lawn in films), counterbalancing each other back and forth, back and forth. This seems like how this thread has gone. As you go one way I give the contrarian opinion, as you go the other way I counteract you and pull you back. I'm not sure you're in a better position than you were at the beginning and maybe I have that effect on people. I'm a natural contrarian albeit in an attempt to find some sort of middle ground since I find "falsehood" in black or white. I started the thread trying to pull you back to a position where making a definitive choice was not a now thing, I've counteracted your argument that you should run for the hills and never look back with reasoning that you could support you Ex rather than feel the need for no contact..... then when you discussed being part of his recovery program I pulled you back away from that suggesting it might not be helpful for you to be that close whilst attempting to benefit him.

I feel there's a state to be in now, which doesn't require absolutes. Your time pressures say there are. You're more seasoned  Being cool (click to insert in post) than I, but I'm not going to let age determine my perception of your wisdom. There's something I mutter to myself when doing DIY..... "Measure twice, cut once" .... the same can be said for relationships...... take the time to measure, take the time to recover and take stock without the compunction for the next move...... then cut well.

If I'm not helping you centre then I'm not helping you.

NL
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B53
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« Reply #67 on: December 15, 2020, 06:11:05 PM »

NL,

 You have been extremely helpful. I think you gave me just what I needed. I needed the back and force to come to that middle ground. I thought that my last post expressed that I have finally reached that place, but maybe it didn’t read that way. 


I don’t know how to cut and paste from what I write on posts, so Ill do it on my computer.

 My last post-  Yesterday, during the day, my thoughts focused on my back and forth struggles I write about here. I know my bad experiences were real, but were my good experiences real?

My conclusion was, why am I wasting my time trying to figure this out. I made my decision and I need to be to confident, that it was the right one. The past is over and the future hasn’t happened. I have now and it’s up to me as to how I want to spend that time.

That evening while sitting on the couch with the TV on in the background, surfing the internet, it felt like all the heaviness just lifted. I felt like my old self.

It feels so good to be back! So if he emails me, begs me to come back, I will deal with it when it happens. I don’t know what I’ll do and until then, I don’t have to have an answer to something that hasn’t happened. I need to be strong enough to make the correct decision, not one based on emotions. I give you and the others here credit, for helping me sort through it all.

YOU DID WELL, THANKS!
B53

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B53
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« Reply #68 on: December 15, 2020, 07:00:06 PM »

Cromwell,

Thanks! I’m glad my pain was able to bring you Joy (only kidding). There was a time, not to long ago, when reading and responding to this post was the only thing that helped get me through a day. You and others were empathic, while still challenging my thoughts and keeping me in touch with reality. Something my head knew all along, but my broken heart wasn’t ready to acknowledge. It is difficult answering you, because I fear that my post is coming to an end. I think that I have just about expressed all the feelings I have felt.  As usual, I will use one the many metaphorical proverbs, that I love so much; You can’t beat a dead horse.  If you have anything else that you feel should be brought up, please do, because I would love to continue our “chat”.

I love Berne Brown, unlike others with celebrity status (Dr. Phil), she is humble and not afraid to admit that she stills struggles with being human. Someone has put one of her Ted Talks at the top of this forum. I feel it’s worth the watch and if you like it, she has other great stuff out there. So I will end with two of her quotes, because I couldn’t decide which one to pick.
 
“Owning our story can be hard but not nearly as difficult as spending our lives running from it. Embracing our vulnerabilities is risky but not nearly as dangerous as giving up on love and belonging and joy—the experiences that make us the most vulnerable. Only when we are brave enough to explore the darkness will we discover the infinite power of our light.” – Brené Brown

 “Our job is not to deny the story, but to defy the ending—to rise strong, recognize our story, and rumble with the truth until we get to a place where we think, Yes. This is what happened. And I will choose how the story ends.” – Brené Brown

B53

I did send you a private email, a while back and don't know if you saw it or it got lost in your box. It was about your numerology question. I realized after I sent it, that you wanted my thoughts not more personal info., though I think some thoughts were included, can’t remember.  If you want to discuss that more, great, and if not, that’s good too.





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« Reply #69 on: December 16, 2020, 04:59:56 PM »

Thanks B53 its nice to hear, hows it going?

I feel when it comes to talking it depends what frame of mind, what a source of anxiety I use to have, still do a little is to avoid a situation where somehow something is said that does more harm than good. So to hear feedback that its made a positive difference, yes, I feel joy from it and at the same time I have my understanding of the pain, in the sense ive gone through my own, still do sometimes.

I like what new-life has to say about being a contrarian, I noticed also you mentioned playing devils advocate. Its risky but seems all three of us know whats going on, point out where the poles are to find the equator sort of charting.

another beneficial thing I found to tell a story is learn how to rest, stress management, sleep, nutrition (you mentioned this as an improvement and blood pressure) i was wondering where the metaphor came from, is B53 a bit fatigued at the moment? or is it just me projecting? or both. I could do with a break Smiling (click to insert in post) but this is the advantage of group support, there is a lot of us, sometimes it has been the most innocuous of things ive said in a message and it has been pointed out, made me then become aware, valuable. I think it stands to reason the more posting, sharing, the higher the chance of getting these gems.

generally though, since day one the pain has been dampened by the "chats" the companionship, to tie in with how I feel about those quotes from Berne, both excellent I can see how it was hard to choose just one.

numerology. maybe if you wish there is one thing id like to mention, somehow I have more attention and memory for numbers than names. not so great now, but might be my advantage in the dystopian future when we are "citizen 29550-3 step forward" type thing Smiling (click to insert in post)

I should have warned you in advance, part of chats with me is the ability to put up with poor jokes.

Its nice to hear some proverbs too, here in the UK it is "flogging a dead horse" and ive been told at times to "stop" which didnt help much, wild horses couldnt stop me flogging a dead horse Smiling (click to insert in post)  

B53, I will stop myself there, im a chatter-box when you want/need feel like it, so message me or post anytime. Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) Take care and thanks. Crom
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