Lieing as easy as breathing ...

[Pinkcamellias]

My husband lies a lot recently. He lies about anything and everything as long as it benefits him in some way . At first I thought it was just towards me but I now I overhear him lieing to his parents and other family members. For example  his father asked us a question he’d answer first and it’d be  a half truth , when I correct him ( thinking he just has the facts mixed up ) he gets a little argumentative (if their around ) or he’ll bring it up again when we are alone and rage . I think his father is catching on. We are staying with him currently and I’m actively trying to find a new place to rent. We had an appointment that didn’t pan out because it was on the 3rd floor so we didn’t even bother to tour the apt. I get back to his Fathers place first (he’s still parking the car) and his father asked me how did it go. I said we never toured the apt because it was on the 3rd floor . Then my husband walks in and he asks him the SAME exact question . He said we saw it and we didn’t like it because the 3rd floor wouldn’t be good for the kids. That was awkward but I said nothing .He lies about money, where he’s been, where he’s going, to the kids  and I’m pretty sure he does this because he wants to control the narrative . I’m  learning to let him speak and not chime in when in front of ppl but it really concerns me. Even If I bring up something he lied about later and give him the open ended opportunity to clean up the lie he doesn’t do it. When i study his face I can tell he believes what he saying . One time he actually called me a liar for not supporting his lie. Is there something I should be doing differently?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[khibomsis]

Pink Camellia,  I would not get too upset. For pwBPD, feelings = facts. Their grip on reality is not like ours. Arguing with a pwBPD about reality is about one of the most futile things you can do and does much to increase conflict. Many of us keep a journal so that our sense of reality doesn't go where theirs went. I keep as much as possible in writing,  record on the cellphone or try to have a third party present when important things are going down.  Do you think that would be practical for you ?

[PearlsBefore]

One of the first pioneers of psychiatry, a "Sigmund Earp" if you will, was fascinated by patients of this subtype and how they "lie in the same way as children lie". And it's absolutely true.

I found the most frustrating fact that my pwBPD would lie without even thinking about it, would just blurt out the first lie that came to mind...and then painted herself into a corner because instead of admitting she'd lied, half the time she'd scramble and try to defend the lie to a morbidly comical level. We literally had a conversation about "I'm not just saying stop lying, but wait two beats of a metronome before answering any question - just to think about whether you WANT to lie", because it reached such a dysfunctional level. Someone could ask her if she needed anything from the store and she'd blurt out "We haven't had toilet paper for weeks" or something equally untrue, and then concede we did actually have lots and she just had panicked because she didn't know what to ask for from the store.

And of course she'd then be angry at anyone who raised an eyebrow and said "Really? Like you don't have any?" for daring to question her. It's the "getting offended at being caught lying" that always fascinated me - but I think that's more classic-BPD than the pathological lying necessarily is itself. A more recent author wrote about the trouble distinguishing honest from dishonest testimony by pwBPDs because professionals outside of forensic psychiatry are not used to seeing genuine emotions accompany stories or explanations the speaker knows to be false.

If the bylaw enforcement officer asks how long your car's been parked there most people will answer "umm, 59 minutes? I was just about to move it", and if the officer snorts "I came past this street three hours ago and your car was there", you'll also laugh, he got you. Or you might ACT offended and say "Sir, I was in Wichita three hours ago, you must have seen another car like mine!", but you're not ACTUALLY offended deep down, you're just play-acting hoping to avoid consequences. The BPD is in the rare group of people that is honestly offended to be caught in a lie even if tactfully, and honestly believes it is an injustice that "truth" and "untruth" are even concepts that can be distinguished - everything is about their "emotional reality".

Basically I don't have a great answer for you - the "stop and think before lying, so at least you only tell important lies in the future" took years before she adopted it, worked for about a year, then was abandoned...but is slowly coming back into her psyche. It's entirely self-motivated for her, not for reasons of morality, but because it's a "better trick" that will result in getting caught (and offended) less often...but hey, at least it makes life a tiny bit easier for the caretakers when she only lies intentionally rather than off the cuff.

[Pinkcamellias]

Khibomsis I used to have a prayer journal and he was always asking me if I was writing about him in it (I wasn’t). Since Covid I would journal on my computer in between applying for jobs online. Now that I’m employed I dear not start clicking away on my laptop because he’ll think I’m up to something . But I can use a journaling app on my phone so maybe I’ll do that...

PealsBefore the honestly offended thing really doesn’t sit well with me. Defending a lie with such conviction makes me feel he’s in an alternate reality. But I’m going to learn to let go. My blood pressure is to high to obsess over this .

[khibomsis]

Pink, I think alternate reality is the way to think about it. Glad you are not getting caught up in it.