I'm puzzled

[Depression = 72% of members]

 :help:Hello all, my first post. I've read a lot on these boards, extremely helpful.

My pwBPD-ex-gf have been apart for nearly 2 months. I see her most days because I still feed and care for the animals twice a day (something she has encouraged me to do since I don't have a place for them and she likes them around but is not crazy about caring for them which is another story) and I do look in on her (mostly exchanging pleasantries) Recently, things have been going extremely well. She is one that rages, somewhat frequently but there are long stretches where she doesn't, but these rage cycles usually are not directed at me. So the last 10 days (almost 11) have been extremely wonderful. We have engaged in thoughtful conversation, had coffee and dessert, and generally haven't had any issues. On Monday, I broached the topic of possibly getting back together (we were together 10+ years). She politely listened but she declined while not dismissing the possibility (even suggesting it to be a possibility since she is devastated by the break-up- which she initiated) of a future reconciliation.
 She has some issues of which she is aware (mostly with depression/anxiety), I suspect she has been diagnosed with either bpd or bipolar disorder (she told me she was hospitalized for a week for depression) or had a diagnosis of some sort because she has mentioned being fearful of being in an institution for an extended time. I have never pressed for more details - I sense it is a touchy topic for her and I do respect doctor/client privilege. 

 I asked her, on a Monday (for the first time), if we could get back together. Although she turned me down, we contined talking through the next 20 minutes or so. She took great pains to tell me I should not feel foolish or embarrassed for having asked her. She even encouraged me to continue sitting next to her. The next 2 days, things are just as great. I haven't brought up getting back together (i told her on Monday I probably would not, at least for a while).We interact, talk, had a few laughs and all is well - like we're still able to show concern and care for each other but more in a way you would with long time friends.
 Thursday rolls around. I see her in the morning - all is well. In the afternoon I happen to see her, I notice she is in one of her rage-filled moods. I ask if she is okay, I acknowledge it appears she is "feeling something" and I ask if she needs anything - she just indicates it is simply frustration at being called into work. This was later in the afternoon. I don't always check my Facebook messages in a timely manner but I noticed that about an hour earlier I had got this strange message that I have been acting like we are still in a relationship and I should stop, that she has made it clear she is not interested in a relationship.
  I have told her (much earlier during our break-up) that I want to keep communications via Facebook open but I would not respond to anything negative nor will I discuss 'us' via Facebook but I will happily do so face to face about anything- even if I don't particularly want to have a conversation. This she has claimed to understand but the bpd traits - the need for attack; she has sent negative passive-aggressive messages to me a few times these last 2 months. I have not responded to those via Facebook or in person. 
 Why did this happen, now? I would expect something like that the day after I asked her if we could get on the path to being back together. I even braced myself for a nasty message or 2 immediately after our conversation (which I thought had gone well).

[phx611]

 :help:Hello all, my first post. I've read a lot on these boards, extremely helpful.

My pwBPD-ex-gf have been apart for nearly 2 months. I see her most days because I still feed and care for the animals twice a day (something she has encouraged me to do since I don't have a place for them and she likes them around but is not crazy about caring for them which is another story) and I do look in on her (mostly exchanging pleasantries) Recently, things have been going extremely well. She is one that rages, somewhat frequently but there are long stretches where she doesn't, but these rage cycles usually are not directed at me. So the last 10 days (almost 11) have been extremely wonderful. We have engaged in thoughtful conversation, had coffee and dessert, and generally haven't had any issues. On Monday, I broached the topic of possibly getting back together (we were together 10+ years). She politely listened but she declined while not dismissing the possibility (even suggesting it to be a possibility since she is devastated by the break-up- which she initiated) of a future reconciliation.
 She has some issues of which she is aware (mostly with depression/anxiety), I suspect she has been diagnosed with either bpd or bipolar disorder (she told me she was hospitalized for a week for depression) or had a diagnosis of some sort because she has mentioned being fearful of being in an institution for an extended time. I have never pressed for more details - I sense it is a touchy topic for her and I do respect doctor/client privilege. 

 I asked her, on a Monday (for the first time), if we could get back together. Although she turned me down, we contined talking through the next 20 minutes or so. She took great pains to tell me I should not feel foolish or embarrassed for having asked her. She even encouraged me to continue sitting next to her. The next 2 days, things are just as great. I haven't brought up getting back together (i told her on Monday I probably would not, at least for a while).We interact, talk, had a few laughs and all is well - like we're still able to show concern and care for each other but more in a way you would with long time friends.
 Thursday rolls around. I see her in the morning - all is well. In the afternoon I happen to see her, I notice she is in one of her rage-filled moods. I ask if she is okay, I acknowledge it appears she is "feeling something" and I ask if she needs anything - she just indicates it is simply frustration at being called into work. This was later in the afternoon. I don't always check my Facebook messages in a timely manner but I noticed that about an hour earlier I had got this strange message that I have been acting like we are still in a relationship and I should stop, that she has made it clear she is not interested in a relationship.
  I have told her (much earlier during our break-up) that I want to keep communications via Facebook open but I would not respond to anything negative nor will I discuss 'us' via Facebook but I will happily do so face to face about anything- even if I don't particularly want to have a conversation. This she has claimed to understand but the bpd traits - the need for attack; she has sent negative passive-aggressive messages to me a few times these last 2 months. I have not responded to those via Facebook or in person. 
 Why did this happen, now? I would expect something like that the day after I asked her if we could get on the path to being back together. I even braced myself for a nasty message or 2 immediately after our conversation (which I thought had gone well).

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

You have found a group of people that "get it"!  I'm looking forward to hearing more of your story and understanding how we can walk with you.

   This she has claimed to understand but the bpd traits - the need for attack; she has sent negative passive-aggressive messages to me a few times these last 2 months. I have not responded to those via Facebook or in person. 

You are incredibly wise to not respond.  I'm curious to know more about how you learned about this.  (will help us guide you)

Best,

FF

[phx611]

 In my mind, I have been able to accept that there are people who have mental illness and suffer greatly - but there are also people that care for them who might have a hard time as well (not the same thing, I recognize, but there is difficulty for many of the loved ones). Luckily, I recognized I might need some help too - some days I do well, other days not so well.
 Anyway, now it seems like she was baiting me and I tried to remember the concept of JADE - it looks like I failed (at least somewhat) at that when I interacted with her in person (yesterday evening). I do utilize the SET concept (sometimes I probably fail at that) - I learned about these from here.
 I tried to use myself as an example stating that in past relationships I didn't always act so nobly and perhaps I wanted my exes to know I was angry by not openly showing them kindness - regrettable moments if you will. I brought this up because I have promised her I would make every attempt to treat her with kindness no matter how she may treat me and that although I don't expect it, I also like to be treated with kindness. Sometimes the rage is hard to take but I think I have been able to show that I can be supportive, and kind towards her.
 I go back and forth between thinking I should look at this as opportunity at extricating myself and then there is the utter sadness that I spent 10 years with this person (mostly good) and now the relationship is gone, which is a tragedy for me. I do know I have my share of flaws but she doesn't seem all that bothered by those except during the holiday season when she typically starts attacking me and now here we are post-holidays.
 
 

[formflier]

Hey...solid work on a quick and thoughtful response.  It's obvious you have been reading lots of BPDfamily material (and perhaps other material as well)

I'm curious how long you have been reading on here prior to posting?  Even more curious to know what led you from a reader...to a poster?

I go back and forth between thinking I should look at this as opportunity at extricating myself and then there is the utter sadness that I spent 10 years with this person (mostly good) and now the relationship is gone, which is a tragedy for me. I do know I have my share of flaws but she doesn't seem all that bothered by those except during the holiday season when she typically starts attacking me and now here we are post-holidays.

Certainly wanted to pause and sit with you a bit with the sadness...       What do you like to do in order to care for those feelings? 

Can I ask you to reconsider a few of your words?

Is the relationship "gone"?  Is "different" perhaps a better word?  Can you think of a word that fits better?

So...last question for now.    Have the holidays always been a fraught time for your relationship?  As in for all 10 years have they been problematic?

You know her best...what do you think is behind this?

Best,

FF

[phx611]

I came across bpd family through general research- just seeing what other people may have or are facing in the day to day. I wasn't really having any particuar "trouble," maybe just minor flare-ups which were maybe slightly challenging but in retrospect, not that significant. I have something of an educational interest in psychology/neuroscience. Anyway, I knew she was borderline after a few months of being together, maybe my own denial or being blinded by my feelings or whatever was going on in my life kept me from acknowledging it and the difficulties I might face in a relationship with her. She was 40 when I met her (I'm slightly younger than her) so perhaps the bpd turmoil is/was a little bit tempered with age.
 Our relationship status- hard to say (she broke up with me via email). I have also wondered if the fact we had been together 10 years may have also been a factor (I know some couples have difficulty at that milestone) She says she is devastated and she looks at the prospect of an "us" as a possibility, once again. She even said (on the 14th) she is having a hard time with us being apart- which is something odd in that some of her email missives to me mentioned how she "knew I was having a hard time with us being apart" despite me not saying anything. She may have just as easily picked up on my body language for all I know. I thought I was doing such a good job concealing it, .
 We if you count 11 holiday seasons together, she has the full rage cycle on maybe 10 but definitely 9 of those holiday seasons - 8 were definitely directed at me, 2 were directed at others (hard to recall with certainty if one of these took place over the holidays).
 I noticed that her brother would be in town almost all of those years when she had her holiday rages, I suspected it was some sort of jealousy (he's 10 years older and my bpd-gf(ex) said that her parents favored him). One time over the holidays, her rage was directed towards her parents  and another it was directed towards a neighbor who happened to be good friends with her and her parents. The neighbor would call my bpd's parents "mom and dad." My  bpd would bristle and complain about it frequently with what I will call contained rage - she kept it to herself but you could tell it would bother her for like 2 hours after the fact. She might make finger gestures towards the neighbor's home.
 Thanks for the responses. I'll add more later...

[Cat Familiar]

So how would you ideally like this relationship to evolve? Could you be satisfied with the status quo?

[formflier]

How did her rage over holidays compare to the rest of the year. 

Where there any other patterns you noticed?

How many months during the year could you go without rage?

Best,

FF

[phx611]

formflier; cat familiar - thank you so much, for making me think...
 During the year, she would not rage that much, at me (at least during the latter years of our relationship). She used to rage much more often, maybe 7 times/year to once a month but these were minor. In fact, one time she told me that she did not know where this rage comes from "it just happens but if you leave me alone for a day I get over it." I came up with this personal policy that if she snapped at me for something I allegedly did then I would make it costly for her in that I would confront her (hopefully calmly) and settle whatever it was - if I was out of line in any way then I would take responsibility and apologize. If it was not directed at me but she was just coming across as angry I would let her work it out however she chose. I now know that it is not recommended you do this with a bpd person. What I found, in my case, is that if I sat next to my bpd person and discussed things, make her look at me or in my direction, then she would typically apologize and the level of anger would either disappear or dramatically be lowered - typically less than an hour. The previous 3-4 years her raging has been manageable from my perspective.On occasion she would take responsibility and even apologize - though not often with the exception of the last 2 years (she apologized  more frequently).
 Some History - After a short time of meeting her (less than a week), she told me she "loved" me. I kind of dismissed the statement but I knew I had feelings for her. Then I noticed how she would be sick or have all of these various pains (i.e. back pain, leg pain, wrist hurting, throbbing headache...etc) I also noticed she had a predilection for showing me places on her body where she had either cut herself (accidentally) or had a strange burn (accident or someone was mad at her and flicked a cigarette at her). One time she was talking to her mother at the front door. I was inside the house, a few feet from the door. She fainted and hit the door hard. I quickly realized something was amiss. There was something that seemed like an affect as we were discussing the event.
 She would regularly be hospitalized for bizarre breathing difficulties. The respiratory techs would ask her why she was having so much difficulty- they would mention her lungs were in excellent shape. One time she was diagnosed as possibly having asthma and was sent to see a pulmonologist. The pulmonologist had been at his practice for a couple of decades and was even published - he understood human lungs. He told her she didn't have asthma. She told me how he was wrong and she was quiet for a long time with seething rage. She flipped him a finger (the office building anyway). This was just even more confirmation she had bpd.
 I learned that her dad was a narcissist. He confessed this to me and he talked about his effort to change this (it started in the 1970s or early 1980s for him), something for which I commend him but sometimes those narcissistic traits show up. Apparently my bpd's paternal grandfather was a monster (physically and verbally abusive, had to have adoration). An uncle of my bpd was also a narcissistic monster who made modest attempts to change the last 2 or so years of his life but he was still mostly a monster.
 It's hard for me to think about how I want things to evolve. If I have to accept things as they are now, I'll accept it but I want us to be a couple again. She has come a long way, as have I. She doesn't do that sickness thing as much thanks at least in some part to some hefty financial charges she had against her, due to a change in insurance she had overlooked. I would like us to be more intimate - emotionally as well as sexually- something that she would claim she wanted (the emotional part). I was the one who had been more skeptical and leery of the emotional intimacy. Now I don't think that's so bad.

[formflier]

You are part of what strikes me as an unusual pattern.  

That holidays are solidly filled with rage, yet the rest of the year is dramatically less filled with rage.  (I'm not suggesting this is OK, I am suggesting this is unusual or perhaps interesting.)

Interesting in the sense that if you can figure out what it is about the holidays, it's entirely likely you (and you alone) can figure out a way to dramatically lessen the impact on you and the relationship.

Perhaps some wise boundaries coupled with a lot of proactive validation.

It would seem that "validation of what?" is the question.

Can I ask you to revisit the holiday issue again and consider what is setting your pwBPD off?

What do you think?  The brother may or may not be part of this?  Is there someone else that "should" be there but isn't?

Best,

FF

[phx611]

This last year or longer - some things did happen.
There was the birth of her grandson - her daughter and grandson are living with my bpd's parents. I had a sense that things would change dramatically with my bpd as a result. I can't describe it...I was happy that he was born healthy and I know that she was happy but there was a change, and it seemed like her delight was more like she was supposed to be delighted therefore she was telling me how happy she was.
 A co-worker suddenly died. The co-worker was a little younger than me. Everyone kind of suspected she had cancer but my bpd would be angry at her for being slow or "piddling around", she would fume about her when she got home from work. Then she dies and all of a sudden my bpd is saying nothing but nice things about her but at least my bpd did describe how sorry she was, something similar to being sorry anyway.
 I've always exercised but I incorporated into my semi-daily routine as in something I must do where as before I looked at it as something that I just happen to do a few times a week. I have long since tried to eat in a healthy manner or at least minimize any indulgence in things that are unhealthy (I've done this for me and have not lectured anyone on that issue,it's not my business what other people do with their food choices). She is not one that consumes things in moderation but she has made attempts at curbing some excess. She doesn't exercise but recognizes the need. I have offered to exercise with her and she has tried at times but then she would complain about how I move too fast or that she can't keep up with me. I tried to explain how she should just try to keep up with herself and not worry about what I'm doing. I'll keep an eye on her - was my mindset. ..
 She failed a certification test at her job, barely, and it it was something for which she barely studied. I tried to offer her a lot of encouragement. She wasn't fired or anything, it's just that she will have to take that test again and pay for it out of pocket. I told her there was no shame in it (I truely think that), she can study for just a little longer and probably pass with flying colors.
 I'm sure there are things I have overlooked. I'll include them if I can think of them.