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Author Topic: The Stigma I Struggle with for "Tolerating" my BPD S/O  (Read 260 times)
JadedEmpath

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« on: March 31, 2021, 11:10:21 AM »

I have been having this thought. There is stigma out there for diagnosed mental illnesses. Society is recognizing these stigmas, and even working to address them (which is great!). But even as we are working to provide awareness and understanding to lessen the stigma surrounding mental illness, at the same time, society is giving a push for people to "leave toxic relationships" and (esp. women) to value your own mental health above others. This is also a worthy and valuable liberation, an important one.

but what about the s/o's to those who have mental illness? I feel as though the convergence of these two societal movements is creating a new stigma, and new problems. There are so many people who have developed with self-defeating brain pathways as a defense mechanism to protect themselves as vulnerable children. As adults, these people have it really rough. They are "toxic". But they deserve love and support, just as much, maybe more, than "healthy" people. They need unconditional positive regard, and structure, and the support they never got as children, to be able to heal.

Yet, there is a stigma right now for "tolerating" a toxic s/o. For staying in a relationship with someone who "isn't meeting your needs". You are looked at as not meeting your full potential, as not loving yourself enough to leave, as weak. You are asked "what are you getting out of the relationship?", and the answer is sometimes nothing. And the implication to that question is that I should leave. That I am making a poor decision. Even when someone is supportive of you making your own decision and doesn't push you to leave, they still think that you should. And it shows through with questions like these.

There are some people that need to leave. When you are struggling with your own mental health, you cannot give a s/o what he or she needs to heal. Then there is just pain. Then the relationship really is toxic. But where is the support and the encouragement and the positivity for those who are emotionally resilient, for those who can be that support and that unconditional lover to someone with BPD? Why don't people see value and dignity in that choice? When a spouse is supportive and devotes themselves to a s/o who develops a life-altering physical health impairment, people feel inspired. They call it admirable, and romantic. But when you are trying to do the same for someone with a mental health impairment, stigma is something you have to deal with daily just as much as the mental illness.

And sometimes, when I am thinking about this, I start to wonder if I am wrong? If I am just trying to justify my relationship? If maybe the answer is to leave. That it is never admirable to unconditionally love and support someone whos mental illness results in "emotionally abusive" outbursts. You always hear that you cannot fix someone, but doesn't support, stability, and unconditional positive regard provide an essential groundwork on which to heal? Can someone heal without those things? I think it would be much easier to love a BPD s/o, and to feel confident in your resulting life choices, if spouses of mentally ill persons were admired rather than pitied or discouraged.

Thoughts?
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Betterlife2021

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« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2021, 01:00:28 PM »

I can relate to everything you said. One of the biggest reasons I joined this group. I have a lots of close friends and family. I try to talk to them about things that are going on in my relationship. They cannot see past the things he says to me. SPLITTING
He has been in therapy for two years I see tons of improvement in many areas of his life.  I constantly hear you have done all you can. You have to leave. He doesn’t love you. Your life would be so easy if you walked away. I do understand that they care about me. And just want what’s best for me. I’m not ready to give up on him. I see hope for our future. After this last cycle we are going through now. I feel as if I should stop talking to them about what is going on here. They feel 2 years of therapy and he should be all better. They say they will support me n whatever I decided to do. But they have also made it very clear what they really think. I am weak. Not very helpful. Since I have shared his diagnosis with my mother, and she did her own research. I am constantly having to reassure her that he is not going to fly off the handle and kill me. We have been together for 21 years he has never laid a finger on me. Don’t feel that he is going to start now.  How do we deal with this stigma? I am not a victim. I have made a choice to stay. Yet they all view me as that.
 
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Notwendy
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« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2021, 05:44:20 AM »

I think this applies mainly to the PD's. I have known spouses of people with other mental illnesses, and there's no negative thinking towards them. While these mental illnesses are difficult for all involved, the person with them is not abusive. With the PD's- there seems to be some sort of emotional, verbal and sometimes physical abuse.

I don't think it's as much stigma as that, if we care about someone, it's difficult to see them be subjected to the abusive side of a relationship with someone with BPD. It's not possible to see all that goes on between two people- the idea of "just leave" is naive, but unless someone is very familiar with the dynamics of a relationship with someone with BPD, they wouldn't know that.

The other aspect is that it doesn't just affect the person they care about but extends to people connected with that person, and that person is often an active participant in the dysfunctional dynamics between them. My mother is severely BPD. She's emotionally and verbally abusive and manipulative. I have empathy for her, as I suspect there was childhood emotional trauma. I think she deserves love and understanding, but I also think my father and her children deserve to be treated civily too. My father understood that she deserves love and chose to tolerate her behavior. However, we, her children didn't have that choice. We had to tolerate it too.

If you do dare to defend yourself or set any boundaries with my mother, she would place you in persecutor role and rally my father to her side to "rescue" her. This resulted in his diminishing ties with people who truly were invested in his well being and cared about him: his extended family and even his children.

I also feel empathy for my mother and for my father who I know gave every possible effort to showing her love and was quite invested in her healing over their decades long marriage. ( he is now deceased). I can see how this benefitted her in many ways. I also could see how it impacted him and have great empathy towards his situation. There were times I also naively suggested he leave her, but I understand that their relationship was more complex than I could know.

Unconditional love is admirable but sometimes it's confused with enabling. Enabling provides temporary relief of the conflicts but actually reinforces the maladaptive behaviors of both partners. Often the partner in a BPD relationship can not see their role in that. It may be this aspect that the people in their lives are being critical of. Lastly, your friends and family aren't stigmatizing you. Because they love you, it's very hard for them to see what you are dealing with, even if it is your choice, and they are responding to this, even if it feels naive and unsupportive. What you are asking the people who love you to do is to admire your choice while watching you to tough it out. It's hard to observe this with someone you love and the natural tendency is to try to defend you.











« Last Edit: April 01, 2021, 05:56:13 AM by Notwendy » Logged
Notwendy
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« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2021, 06:40:05 AM »

One consideration if you wish for contructive support is to discuss the relationship with a trained counselor rather than confide in friends and family.  They can't really be objective and their tendency is to defend you- because they care about you. A counselor is objective and so can give constructive advice.

If you don't want a counselor who immediately says "leave" there are counselors who can help you take action within the relationship and you can seek them out by asking some of these questions. If you truly wish for things to change, be prepared for the counselor to "call you out" on any enabling behaviors because while not enabling may cause difficulty in the short term, constant enabling really isn't good for the pwBPD or you. A trained counselor can support you through some changes. Sometimes unconditional love involves "tough love" which may not make your partner happy in the short term but may ultimately benefit both of you.
l
There are benefits to working on your part in the relationship whether or not you stay or leave. It's been said that if someone leaves a dysfunctional relationship without working on their role in it, they risk recreating a similar pattern with someone else.

Venting to friends and family puts them in a no win situation. I would suggest you study the Karpman triangle as a model of this dynamic. It's triangulation. When you vent to them, seeking support, you are in victim position and you place your SO in persecutor position when you vent about how they behave. The natural tendency for people who care about you is to step in with what they think is helpful advice- why don't you leave? Then rather than take their advice, you step in to rescuer position and place your SO in victim position and your family and friends in persecutor. "but you don't understand my SO, they are hurting, how awful to tell me to leave them, you are not supporting me". Now, your bewildered family/friends don't really understand what happened, they were just trying to be helpful and now they are in a bad situation with both you and your SO.

Can you relate to this pattern? Your family and friends care about you. When you vent to them, you may be putting them in this situation.

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JadedEmpath

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« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2021, 10:39:02 AM »

@Notwendy : I appreciate you sharing your experience with the dynamic of being the child of someone with BPD. I often wonder about how our daughter will be affected by his disorder. He absolutely adores her, and is a good dad, but still I worry his disordered thought patterns and poor social skills will affect her. If not directly, than indirectly in the ways your are saying about putting tension in her relationships.

I also appreciate your thoughts on how, when you love someone BPD, your relationships can take on a triangulation effect--venting and then defending. I want to clarify, though. I do not vent specifics to my friends or family about my s/o, ever. When he and I first got together, he was undiagnosed, and it took me years to figure out what was going on with him. I did not want my family or friends to know that anything was amiss. I went to great lengths to make excuses for his irritability, his poor social skills, his inability to plan ahead or commit. Once I realized it was BPD and had done research on it and he was actively trying to seek psychological help, he admitted to my family that he struggles with mental illness. By that time they had figured that something was up anyway, I'd say. That has made my life so much more tolerable. The weight that was lifted was huge. To be able to say "Yes, I know J. hasn't responded about that event you've been texting him about--part of his mental health struggle is severe social anxiety, and thinking about attending the event and committing to it is so overwhelming I think he just keeps pushing "responding" to the back of him mind. I know he would have a good time once he got there, though. Maybe call him instead of text, so he won't have the mental agony of having to think before responding." instead of "oh, sorry, I don't know, maybe his phone is dead, again? I will ask him" followed by pressure and fights etc. for him to respond. Its been so freeing to be open and honest. Instead of them just thinking he is some sort of a**hole, they at least understand that he has a legitimate mental health problem and he is trying to heal.

But all that to say, I never vent specifics. They don't know the half of the crap I have gone through with him. They really are kind and supportive, of me and of him. They go out of their way to be good to us, and to be forgiving with him. But my brother admitted to me the other day that my mother occasionally warns him of "not ending up like me" in a relationship with someone mentally sick. That was a punch to the gut, that she felt that way. That my support of someone who is struggling with mental health recovery, was not something admirable, it was something to be avoided. And she said this because the girl he is dating is also coping with lesser mental health issues, and my sister cant stand her. My sister is the biggest supporter of my relationship, and has never said a bad thing about my s/o, but she will rant and rave about the girlfriend doing things that J. would do. I guess she doesnt see the parallel. But it made me realize that she probably also thinks like my mom, that I have made a sad and pitiful mistake. And that hurt. That is what I am trying to describe here. That there is no reason for anyone to think I am a victim. The most I will vent is something like "man sometimes its really exhausting trying to plan events around the holidays when they are so triggering for J.". And I really need people to genuinely care about him, to genuinely want him and accept him. Part of his disorder is feeling unwanted unworthy unliked and paranoid. Disingenuous support is almost worse than no support, because it confirms to him that people are fake and not worth your time. So there is a stigma. There is no reason for someone to think I made a poor choice to love him. Just because someone is struggling with mental health, doesnt make them any less valuable. So now instead of just dealing with the added stresses of his behavior and moods, I also feel alone and pitied.
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JadedEmpath

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« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2021, 10:52:20 AM »

@Betterlife2021. I feel you. I feel really fortunate that I have family members who are open minded and aware of mental health issues, enough that I can talk to them without them overtly telling me to leave him. Maybe your thought stop confiding in those less-supportive friends & family anymore is a good one, for you and for them. It sounds like its causing stress both ways. You have people on here, who understand completely, that you can confide in, but its important to have someone you know in person too I think. I hate that you might be losing that by feeling like you cant talk to them about it anymore. Like sometimes I am worried my s/o might attempt self-harm or might do something impulsive, and its really important to me that I have someone else I can call to check on him if I cannot. Are any of your friends or family supportive?

I don't know how to deal with the stigma. It felt good to read where you said "I am not a victim. I have made a choice to stay."--like, YES, that is exactly how I feel. Really, everything you said, It felt really good to read that you can relate to this frustration i am experiencing too.
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Betterlife2021

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« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2021, 11:11:46 AM »

Thanks JadedEmpath & Notwendy,
Lots of good stuff to think about. I definitely struggle with sharing to much. Something I am working on. I have also been a huge enabler. Also working on that with a therapist. I have many close friends to share with. Also my daughter she is grown now and we are extremely close. Maybe some trauma bonding. I think for me I just need to share a little less detail. And that would help a lot. Thanks I’m so grateful I found you all.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2021, 11:32:22 AM »

I think context is important and actions. You family is being supportive. I don’t think what your mother said is about whether your choice is admirable or not but more about how she wishes you didn’t have to experience this.

I admire my father. He did a world of good for his family. Yet at the same time I also felt sympathy for what he went through. Your mother probably wishes you didn’t have to go through what you are experiencing and doesn’t wish that for your brother either. This has nothing to do with the value of another person.

I think counseling would help with you not feeling alone and also help you to manage the situation. Trained professional understand mental illness better than family members.
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JadedEmpath

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« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2021, 11:49:34 AM »

@Notwendy I do need to go to a therapist. I think that is definitely important. I keep putting it off, and I really need to prioritize it.  And thank you for sharing about your feelings for your dad. I can see how that is less of a stigma, and more of just natural feelings. And probably similar to how my family feels about me.
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Cat Familiar
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« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2021, 12:45:40 PM »

I’ll play Devil’s Advocate here. To begin with, your user name JadedEmpath, tells me that you are an empath who is “fatigued, exhausted, cynical, apathetic” according to Merriam-Webster.

That you are here and chose that user name, seems to indicate that these descriptors are connected with your relationship with the BPD in your life, your husband.

People who love you, and are closely connected with you, namely your family, undoubtedly pick up on the minimal cues you present, whether or not you are aware you do. And they likely put two and two together and come to the conclusion that living with your husband is more stressful than a healthy relationship would be. Undoubtedly they grieve that you are shouldering a burden. Whether or not they’re judgmental about your husband, that’s a measure of their emotional intelligence.

Like many here, you entered into this relationship, giving your love and commitment without knowing that your partner had serious mental health issues, which would impact the relationship and put you in the position of being a caretaker.

Now there are positive sides to being a caretaker, and we encourage members to be the emotional leader in partnerships with a pwBPD, but there are also downsides. And caretaking and codependency can be intertwined.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships

With codependency, one receives an ego boost in helping a partner who is inherently seen as “less than”. That judgment can be cloaked in positivity, for example, trying to motivate a partner to seek therapy.

Now let’s look at it from the so-called dysfunctional partner’s point of view. It might feel that others are constantly saying that how he is not OK, that he needs to change, to be better, to achieve more, to be nicer. He might feel that the world is conspiring against him and that he isn’t the problem, others are.

Who is to say what’s right in this situation? And must people with mental illnesses be encouraged to seek treatment? What if they don’t want to and see no need for it? Or if they’re worried that they will become different in a way that they won’t like?

I have no dog in this hunt. Like you, I enjoy debating.  Being cool (click to insert in post)

My feeling is that people who haven’t entered into marriage, purchased property, or had children with their BPD partners are in a much freer position than others who’ve done the above. If I had a child who was contemplating getting involved with a partner with a personality disorder, I would be very upset, knowing what a rough life they were planning on signing up for.

Certainly everyone is entitled to being loved. Some people are harder to love than others.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2021, 01:12:35 PM »

My feeling is that people who haven’t entered into marriage, purchased property, or had children with their BPD partners are in a much freer position than others who’ve done the above. If I had a child who was contemplating getting involved with a partner with a personality disorder, I would be very upset, knowing what a rough life they were planning on signing up for.
Certainly everyone is entitled to being loved. Some people are harder to love than others.
Hi JadedEmpath, Cat Familiar and others,
I can definitely relate to this thread as I became involved with my xWwUnBPD without knowing she has a mental illness, and one where she became verbally and physically abusive to both me and her older son who also has a mental illness. I married her one year after we met and we purchased a property together 2 years after that. I was devoted to her and my two stepsons, now 18 and 11 for 6 1/2 years. As bad as it got with never-ending blaming, belittling, insulting, aggression, etc., there is no doubt in my mind that I would have stayed if she would have shown true remorse and a genuine willingness to get help. I think it's terrific that your husband is in therapy. I've been in therapy for many years (which unfortunately my W used against me, since I "never" got better) and value it tremendously. It also would've helped to have my sister understand how difficult it was for me to leave since she compared her situation to mine and said it should've been easy for me to leave since my W and I don't have kids together. Thank you, Cat, for acknowledging that marriage and property matter too. And so does love. And wanting to stick by a person who is struggling and needs unconditional positive regard, validation and support. I also realized that I need those things too and was not receiving them. If my xW could've acknowledged that, it might've been a different ballgame.
-WP
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Betterlife2021

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« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2021, 02:21:51 PM »

Cat Familiar

I just wanted to say I really appreciate your ability to play devil’s advocate here, and on many other threads. I have read a lot of your posts. And feel that you offer insight into things many of us just are not in a place to see. Just reading some of your comments the last couple weeks has helped me look at things from a different perspective that I was having a hard time seeing.
 Thanks your awesome
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« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2021, 05:12:38 AM »

It's interesting the idea of an ego boost from being co-dependent. For me, I think co-dependent behavior was a learned behavior. I think there was an aspect of image with my parents- as a child I saw my mother as the "problem" and my father as the "good guy" - the victim of my mother's unreasonable behavior. I wondered why he put up with it.

I also didn't want to be like my mother, and so I looked to my Dad for behavior examples. Co dependent behavior was also reinforced with approval. I took on the caretaking behaviors at home as soon as I was old enough and yes, there was an ego boost for me for being "better than my mom". But also in general my self esteem was very low as it seemed impossible to please her and she was constantly angry and blaming me for something. I felt the only way to be loved or get approval was to be co-dependent and I became a people pleaser.

Because this was learned behavior, I brought these traits into marriage and it was anything but an ego boost. I was not happy being co-dependent.  Eventually I was motivated to change these behaviors and learn new ones.

It was when I examined my own co-dependency that I began to understand that my view of my mother as "the problem" and my father as "the good guy" was naive. Their relationship involved the two of them and while I could see that it was difficult for him in ways- it also had to meet some kind of emotional need for him otherwise these patterns between them would not have continued. This is different from staying in or ending a relationship- I am talking about the behavior patterns between them would not have continued if they were also not meeting his needs too. You don't have to leave a relationship to change your behaviors.

I did admire my father. He was committed to his family and his marriage, and he was also a good and stable parent for us. That said though- as Cat Familiar has stated- I do not think co-dependency is a desirable trait. It was a very wise marriage counselor who pointed out the less than admirable aspect of being co-dependent and  I am grateful that she did- because it prompted me to change my own behaviors. While I went to MC expecting to be validated for my putting up with what I thought were unfair behaviors, she showed me how my own behaviors were reinforcing them and perpetuating the patterns I was complaining about and how enabling someone doesn't really help them. Does this mean I admire my father less? Of course not. He's human as we all are.

Yes, it might be easier for you if you were admired for your  selflessness but it might not be the best thing for you or your husband. It might be that a therapist pointing out your own behaviors while providing support is helpful.
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JadedEmpath

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« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2021, 07:02:53 PM »

Thank you guys for your input. The responses to my initial thread moved in a different direction from what I expected, and they have been hard to swallow at times, but I think this is exactly what I needed. I am going to read them over again and let them sink in. I also set up a therapy appointment for myself this month, which I know is a resource I should have taken up on long ago but have been procrastinating.

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« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2021, 06:45:26 AM »

Jaded Empath, I am like you choosing to stay in a close supportive relationship with my expwBPD. We split up because after years of LDR neither of us could move to the other's city, but I felt it would be wrong to detach completely like I would with a non. This works, mostly, because we are both in therapy and I am working hard at my codependency. Boundaries are just as necessary in a friendship as in a relationship.It is not uncomplicated, and yes, it is not a choice that would be popular with my family and friends if they knew. I confide on these boards and in therapy, feeling that it is up to her what she decides to reveal about her status.

It is often hard, but I think it is not so much whether other people respect our choices as that we do. My mind boggles how I could possibly find a new partner who would put up with the level of involvement, or understand how it helps me stand morally right with myself. Far from dating yet, and I do understand that I have to stand right with myself before I can be good for anyone else.  

What keeps me going is the fact that since she came to self-awareness and entered therapy she is getting better by the day. It is a joy to see. Indeed a supportive network is important in making progress and to do her credit she is doing the best she can to expand this network even during lockdown. So there is hope I may be able to gradually detach with time.

I do think Notwendy's point is important. I also grew up with a uNBPD mother and my father's codependent choices were hard for me both as a child and as an adult. I am having to do a lot of work at forgiving them both and taking control of my life. An adult has choices, a child does not. I would suggest providing therapy for your daughter as well so that she can learn skills to cope early on.
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