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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: How do I raise well rounded children with a BPD parent?  (Read 411 times)
Diddle
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« on: April 09, 2021, 06:07:43 AM »


To set the scene, we have 3 boys 12,13 & 14, I discovered my HwBPD's BPD only a year ago.

I have lived with and noticed the up and down of it all for 20 yrs. The manipulation totally clouded my judgement about whether I was causing all these issues in our marriage like he suggested and still suggests. I have been unhappy and unsupported for a very long time, but I didn't want our children to have to deal with the prospect of a broken home (seems ridiculous reading that back, because it is broken anyway)

I told myself I would only do something about it, if it started affecting the children. Because his anger and frustration and manipulation was never aimed at them. He has always been the full-time worker and I have been the full-time parent, he had very little physically or emotionally to do with the children in their early years, all the raising was technically done by me.

As they have grown up and become older, and gained their own opinions, they have been on the receiving end of his anger, and inconsiderate comments ( I clearly remember him telling our boys when they were around 5, and I was taking them out to escape one of his moods, that when they came back he wouldn't be home and they'd never see him again!)

I have tried to pacify him constantly, to keep things calm, at the expense of my own needs, and life. Supported myself through major life events, cancer scares etc because he's conditioned me to not tell my family things about our home life. Just so there was calm for them.

Then when the boys had reached secondary/high school age I was really aware that I have made  myself look like a doormat, just being walked over and never standing up for myself, and sometimes not standing up for them in arguments with him, so it doesn't fly even more out of control. They have pointed this out to me!

It is a really hard balance to reach. I want them to grow up respecting us as parents, and what we have to say to them, but also many of his comments and the way he deals with them isn't appropriate or necessary. He sometimes blames them for things they haven't done, or gets cross over tiny things, so they too are walking on eggshells, particularly if he has had a drink too.

I wish I had set boundaries years ago, so they could have learnt that in their more formative year, and that is probably a guilt I will always carry. They openly express how they feel a bit more about situations regarding their dad now, but then so do I with them. I want them to know that the way he treats me isn't how they should treat anyone, especially their wives, and I have told them that and they agree.

My HwBPD has since been diagnosed, the doctor agreed with everything I had to say and has given him therapy and anti depressants, both of which are ending soon. During the time where the medication has kept him calm, he has built relationships with the boys that he has never had before, but I am keeping a close eye on that because I don't consider him trustworthy with their feelings, and can see that he is constantly asking them for reassurance, he asks our 14 yr old about his weightloss (hubbies not 14 yr old) its not his job to reassure his dad for that sort of thing.

 I still fail at setting boundaries, and find myself "keeping the peace" because its easier, but I know once he stops his medication in a couple of months I'll be forced to toughen up.

I still don't know what the better option is for the future, whether leaving would give them more stability and chance at a calmer future, but that would also come with them being with him without me there to support them, and more chance of him manipulating them. Or staying and having really firm boundaries and a proper honest conversation with the boys about all of this.

Nobody else in my real life knows the extremes of this, and I feel really ashamed at the thought of telling them, that I've let myself be so manipulated, and I also have the fear of them brushing it aside as nothing.

So anyone got any advice from decision making about parenting, or reaching out to other family members?
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formflier
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« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2021, 07:01:35 AM »


OK...lots of questions there.

The basic question "How do I do this without hurting the kids?"  (is that a fair "distilling down" of your question?)


I would suggest a really good family therapist/therapist for kids. 


I would tend to shy away from reaching out to family and friends (unless you know they understand BPD). 


This isn't my analogy but I've found it helpful. 

Imagine a three legged stool. 

1st leg:  Bpdfamily

2nd leg:  Professional therapists

3rd leg:  Family and friends "outside of BPD"  (as in a leg in normal life).  Being deliberate about a  (fill in the blank club...)

I anticipate the question of "why not let family and friends know" and the best answer I have is it is so hard to understand and BPD has a way of taking over...so all you talk about is the horrors of BPD.  Be deliberate to not let BPD in most of your relationships

Best,

FF
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truthdevotee
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« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2021, 03:52:50 PM »

Hi Diddle

I'm reading two books at the moment which are life-changing for me personally. They're written by the same author.

https://www.amazon.com/Raising-Resilient-Children-Borderline-Narcissistic-ebook/dp/B08V8X4SP2/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1618001341&sr=1-3

https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Caretaking-Borderline-Narcissist-Drama-ebook/dp/B00B60DRKI/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1618001385&sr=1-1


According to the author's website she offers online consultations. I haven't done that yet but I'm thinking of reaching out to her and asking if it's possible from my location.

https://margalistherapy.com/

These two books are giving me so much strength and hope as well as extremely practical guidance about what I need to do to slowly but surely get my life back whilst also guiding my children correctly (my boys are 4 years old and 2 years old).

You are so strong.


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Diddle
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2021, 05:51:10 AM »

Formflier

Excerpt
The basic question "How do I do this without hurting the kids?"  (is that a fair "distilling down" of your question?)


I would suggest a really good family therapist/therapist for kids. 

Yes that is a fair interpretation of my question. I would hate for my boys to become my husband in later life, and wonder if openly discussing it with them would be a wise decision, or perhaps judge based on their age and maturity when that might be a good thing to do.
I have never considered a therapist for them about this, but I will certainly bear it in mind.

Excerpt
I would tend to shy away from reaching out to family and friends (unless you know they understand BPD). 


This isn't my analogy but I've found it helpful. 

Imagine a three legged stool. 

1st leg:  Bpdfamily

2nd leg:  Professional therapists

3rd leg:  Family and friends "outside of BPD"  (as in a leg in normal life).  Being deliberate about a  (fill in the blank club...)

I anticipate the question of "why not let family and friends know" and the best answer I have is it is so hard to understand and BPD has a way of taking over...so all you talk about is the horrors of BPD.  Be deliberate to not let BPD in most of your relationships


This surprises me, I know my closest family have seen a change in me over the years, the control my HwBPD has had over my decisions has meant I have missed out or appeared to have chosen him over my family many many times. To the point where I know it has upset my family, but they have silently respected my decision.
I feel by speaking to them about what's been going on, it would not only allow me a little support, but also explain some of my actions.

I totally agree though that it can take over, I have only told a snippet of it to my best friend, and I already sense the unspoken "why are we still having this conversation again and again with no progress"

So your stool analogy is suggesting that the "normal life" leg will provide stability?

Thank you for responding
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Diddle
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« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2021, 05:53:29 AM »

Truthdevotee

Excerpt
These two books are giving me so much strength and hope as well as extremely practical guidance about what I need to do to slowly but surely get my life back whilst also guiding my children correctly (my boys are 4 years old and 2 years old).

You are so strong.

Thank you so much for your positive words.

I have seen these books suggested so many times, and felt so scared to order them for fear of hwBPD losing it if he saw them. But I read an online extract after your reply, and I've downloaded the caretaking one to my kindle so hell never know. I've already found myself nodding along to the intro.

Hope your weekend is going well
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Notwendy
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« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2021, 06:12:27 AM »

I would hate for my boys to become my husband in later life,

While that is a concern, one other concern is that, they would model after you and end up in a similar relationship. These kinds of patterns are intergenerational usually, unless someone does some personal work to change them. This is because our family interactions are familiar to us and we tend to be attracted to similar patterns.

My BPD mother's behaviors were obviously disordered. I didn't want to be like her. What was far less subtle to me was my father's enabling and co-dependent behaviors. I perceived him at the "good guy" victim of my mother. In our family, his behaviors were considered the normal and desirable. Also, to gain approval, I took on people pleasing and "doormat" behaviors in my family of origin and relationships.

I modeled that for my children. Fortunately I decided to make changes while they were still relatively younger and they have seen me role model different behaviors now. I also shared my own work with them as they were old enough to see me go to 12 step Codependency meetings and they saw me establish boundaries. While I don't think it's approproate to share marital details with them, I share my own side of things- that I had to learn to have boundaries and stand up for myself. They can see that I am doing that now and that it is OK to do that. It was not OK in my family of origin. They are aware of my BPD mother's issues. Hers are the most overtly severe. However even in a milder situation, I have played a part in dysfunctional patterns.

I try to avoid Karpman triangle dynamics. This can happen when you share your issues with another family member or friend, and even your children. It puts them in rescuer position. What has been most helpful to me has been counseling and 12 step groups that have called me out on my own behaviors and prompted me to change.

While we can not change the behaviors of another person, we can change ours, and I think by working on your part, you can also change your behaviors and role model them for your children.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2021, 06:19:18 AM by Notwendy » Logged
Diddle
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« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2021, 11:04:42 AM »

NotWendy

I had never even considered it from that point of view, I would be so sad if they ended up in the same position as me, I think perhaps because I'm a female and they're all males, It hadn't considered they could be the victim.

Your response is actually fantastic! thank you so much for responding, I am filled with emotion right now at you pointing that out. Neither scenario is what I want for them, and I guess as I suspected, my own behaviour to all of this is exactly what needs to be addressed.

My 13 yr old is very aware that I am the doormat, not in a disrespectful way, he has pointed out that when he is in a disagreement with his dad, I will side with nobody, when really he needs me to show him that his dads behaviour isn't ok.

Also the way you've worded this:

Excerpt
I try to avoid Karpman triangle dynamics. This can happen when you share your issues with another family member or friend, and even your children. It puts them in rescuer position. What has been most helpful to me has been counseling and 12 step groups that have called me out on my own behaviors and prompted me to change.

Perfect! I see exactly why its not always good to share, actually I feel the need to share because I want support, but also because I feel by not sharing with my parents in particular, that they would absolutely feel like the rescuer, but also be disappointed I hadn't told them.

Thank you so much Smiling (click to insert in post)
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Notwendy
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« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2021, 06:06:05 AM »

I am glad I could share what helped me and hope it will help you to change the patterns in your family.
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worriedStepmom
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« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2021, 02:26:27 PM »

I will pile on to support the idea of getting your children therapists.  My stepdaughter (SD13) has a mother with undiagnosed BPD.  Therapy has been essential for her to learn to set boundaries and to work through the trauma of being the child of a BPD parent.

I hope you also get therapy for yourself.  I don't want you to be ashamed of your past choices.  You did the best you could with the knowledge that you had, while living with a practiced abuser.  Now you know better and now you are trying to make better choices.  It's hard to break out from our old behavioral patterns, and will be much easier with a professional to help support you.

I also think that if you want, it is okay to share your troubles with close family or friends.  Just beware - my mom is a hyper rescuer who drives me nuts with useless "help" when I shared with her what BPDmom did.  She does not understand BPD well enough to offer good advice and is not able to just listen.  I have other friends and family who are good at listening and supporting.  Find those types of people (maybe by trial and error) and don't share as much with the overhelpful ones.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2021, 11:03:47 AM »

I see exactly why its not always good to share, actually I feel the need to share because I want support, but also because I feel by not sharing with my parents in particular, that they would absolutely feel like the rescuer, but also be disappointed I hadn't told them.

It's healthy to share stuff with friends and family! The thing that can happen is that we lean on friends like they're therapists, which they aren't trained for, especially if it's BPD.

One thing that worked for me, in particular when things were on tilt, was to preface with something along the lines of, "I have a team of advisors working with me and have really good professional support that's been pure gold. I want to share that _______ is happening so you understand why I've been _________ because it may have been _______ for you."

If you think your parents will want to fix and rescue, maybe be explicit about what you want from them. "I got this. What's important to me is that you understand why I've been ______ for these last years. The best way you can support me is to __________."

I feel for you with your sons. My son (almost 20) once said to me, "I wish you protected me sooner."

How did you respond when S13 said he wanted you to stand up for him?
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