Here we go again

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

We're really doomed to repeat the past until we learn from it and change our behavior aren't we?

A few months ago I planned a trip to see some friends in another state and the ensuing 'consequences' were both epic and chaotic.  It really brought my uBPD W's behavior into focus... so much so that CPS was called in.  The case was dismissed and I won't go into details ( there's a HUGE thread on that nonsense already).

Things have been fairly 'calm' around here... other than my semi-mental breakdown last weekend.  It's no coincidence that it happened a month later - the weekend I was supposed to try to see my friends again.  I never made plans because before I could my uBPD W said SHE and her friends were going away... once she was sure I backed off making my plans she dropped hers and we spent the weekend at home with me doing chores...

Anyway, I suspect I might have some form of sleep apnea and we've got a fantastic specialist with a really nice sleep study facility less than 4 miles from our house!

My wife put up a small fight about me even going to talk to the specialist... in fact her Aunt (who is aware of the uBPD traits) felt the need to 'coincidentally' plan a visit during my appointment to make sure I went.  (We've noticed W's behavior is 'normal'-ish when other people are over).  My wife insisted that I shouldn't be upset or expect the doctor to not even want to do a sleep study otherwise "you'll be coming home with some equipment."

The doctor took one look at me and my family history and immediately recommended the in-depth over night study.

When I got home my W didn't even acknowledge where I had been.  She didn't ask and instead flooded me with a TON of information about random various topics... felt like she was doing anything to keep me from talking about my appointment.  It wasn't until her Aunt asked me that I was able to mention that the doc wants to do an overnight study."
"at home?" my wife asked cutting me off.
"That would be more convenient, but nope they want to do the full evaluation on me with brain and leg monitoring."
"...when?" she asked.
"Not sure, but they'll call me in a few days to schedule."
She dropped it like the conversation didn't happen.  The doctor brought up a few points (that I conveyed to her and her Aunt) that suggest there could be something going on with my sleep that could lead to serious health issues down the road.  My W didn't seem to want to hear it.  After that she didn't bring it up.

Two days later I get a call from the sleep doc's office- insurance approved!  So we get me on the books asap.  I'm going in just a few days!

I immediately make a plan to have us take her Aunt out for dinner and then drop me off at the sleep facility 3.2 miles away leaving my W with the car (we had two cars but my W decided my car 'wasn't safe' so I'm not allowed to drive it anymore...)  I tell my wife - not ask - that I'm doing the overnight study on this date and my plans about her Aunt.  She just says okay and writes in her datebook and hasn't mentioned it since.  Unlike last time I tried to plan a night away I've already told the kids and they don't seem to care.  Granted, this is a very different situation (medical thing and it's only one night a few miles away).

That was yesterday... last night was tough.  She's started the "you don't love me anymore" script again... I don't think it's a coincidence that she's also sharply become very harsh and reactive to our 8 year old's behavior.  The kid just said "mommy, you've been annoying lately."  My W reacted badly to this... accused the kid of being a bully... to her... an adult.

After the kids were in bed she started sobbing and saying she's a failure, the kids should go back to school, and (the most dominant theme) that she's tired of being "blamed for things that aren't her fault or in trouble when she didn't do anything wrong!"  She later accused me (as we're going to sleep) of being uncaring and unsupportive because I didn't once try to physically comfort her.  I responded by saying that I felt that some of her anger was at me and that I wasn't sure if I should because last time she nearly took a swing at me for trying to hug her.

Also want to point out that during my emotional breakdowns I beg her not to touch me.  When I'm upset I don't want to be touched - my skin feels weird.
She ignored that request and forced herself onto me.  I begged her to stop touching me but she instead just squeezed/hugged me tighter.  It was just a hug but I felt violated and angry.

Long long story short... just looking to commiserate.  Anyone else experience anything similar?

My focus with my therapist is shifting to building up my self esteem/self image so I can work on ending this relationship.

Currently reading "Splitting" on my phone.

[Guts42]

We're really doomed to repeat the past until we learn from it and change our behavior aren't we?

A few months ago I planned a trip to see some friends in another state and the ensuing 'consequences' were both epic and chaotic.  It really brought my uBPD W's behavior into focus... so much so that CPS was called in.  The case was dismissed and I won't go into details ( there's a HUGE thread on that nonsense already).

Things have been fairly 'calm' around here... other than my semi-mental breakdown last weekend.  It's no coincidence that it happened a month later - the weekend I was supposed to try to see my friends again.  I never made plans because before I could my uBPD W said SHE and her friends were going away... once she was sure I backed off making my plans she dropped hers and we spent the weekend at home with me doing chores...

Anyway, I suspect I might have some form of sleep apnea and we've got a fantastic specialist with a really nice sleep study facility less than 4 miles from our house!

My wife put up a small fight about me even going to talk to the specialist... in fact her Aunt (who is aware of the uBPD traits) felt the need to 'coincidentally' plan a visit during my appointment to make sure I went.  (We've noticed W's behavior is 'normal'-ish when other people are over).  My wife insisted that I shouldn't be upset or expect the doctor to not even want to do a sleep study otherwise "you'll be coming home with some equipment."

The doctor took one look at me and my family history and immediately recommended the in-depth over night study.

When I got home my W didn't even acknowledge where I had been.  She didn't ask and instead flooded me with a TON of information about random various topics... felt like she was doing anything to keep me from talking about my appointment.  It wasn't until her Aunt asked me that I was able to mention that the doc wants to do an overnight study."
"at home?" my wife asked cutting me off.
"That would be more convenient, but nope they want to do the full evaluation on me with brain and leg monitoring."
"...when?" she asked.
"Not sure, but they'll call me in a few days to schedule."
She dropped it like the conversation didn't happen.  The doctor brought up a few points (that I conveyed to her and her Aunt) that suggest there could be something going on with my sleep that could lead to serious health issues down the road.  My W didn't seem to want to hear it.  After that she didn't bring it up.

Two days later I get a call from the sleep doc's office- insurance approved!  So we get me on the books asap.  I'm going in just a few days!

I immediately make a plan to have us take her Aunt out for dinner and then drop me off at the sleep facility 3.2 miles away leaving my W with the car (we had two cars but my W decided my car 'wasn't safe' so I'm not allowed to drive it anymore...)  I tell my wife - not ask - that I'm doing the overnight study on this date and my plans about her Aunt.  She just says okay and writes in her datebook and hasn't mentioned it since.  Unlike last time I tried to plan a night away I've already told the kids and they don't seem to care.  Granted, this is a very different situation (medical thing and it's only one night a few miles away).

That was yesterday... last night was tough.  She's started the "you don't love me anymore" script again... I don't think it's a coincidence that she's also sharply become very harsh and reactive to our 8 year old's behavior.  The kid just said "mommy, you've been annoying lately."  My W reacted badly to this... accused the kid of being a bully... to her... an adult.

After the kids were in bed she started sobbing and saying she's a failure, the kids should go back to school, and (the most dominant theme) that she's tired of being "blamed for things that aren't her fault or in trouble when she didn't do anything wrong!"  She later accused me (as we're going to sleep) of being uncaring and unsupportive because I didn't once try to physically comfort her.  I responded by saying that I felt that some of her anger was at me and that I wasn't sure if I should because last time she nearly took a swing at me for trying to hug her.

Also want to point out that during my emotional breakdowns I beg her not to touch me.  When I'm upset I don't want to be touched - my skin feels weird.
She ignored that request and forced herself onto me.  I begged her to stop touching me but she instead just squeezed/hugged me tighter.  It was just a hug but I felt violated and angry.

Long long story short... just looking to commiserate.  Anyone else experience anything similar?

My focus with my therapist is shifting to building up my self esteem/self image so I can work on ending this relationship.

Currently reading "Splitting" on my phone.

[Notwendy]

Guts, I think this is telling. You aren't going away for your own pleasure. This is a medially necessary test for your health. Someone invested in your well being would want to see you get this test, as sleep apnea can be harmful. They would want to either have it ruled out or treated, for your own well being. Someone who cares about you wants you to be in good health.

She, on the other hand, is thinking about her own feelings, keeping you from getting the health care you need so she doesn't have to spend a night by herself or deal with the kids, or whatever. If you really think about this it's really absurd. Get the test.

[GaGrl]

Your health is a non-negotiable. That she can't handle one night without you in the house, knowing you are just a few miles away, indicates a serious level of dysfunction.

Get the tests.

[mart555]

Get the test and enjoy the night off.   

But yes, the cycles of push-pull get soo annoying once you notice them. 

[Guts42]

Thanks everyone. Tests have to happen!
My Dad had pretty nasty sleep apnea of the obstructive type.
My girlfriend in college reported that several times I'd just stop breathing... not hold my breath or seem to struggle.  I'd just stop for a while and then start up again without even gasping.  I more than likely grew out of it but my uBPD frequently tells me my behavior whilst asleep is usually the root cause of her horrible sleep.

Trying not to let it show I'm excited to go to the study.  I'm equally excited to get the results as I am for a 'night off.'

My wife did bring it up in passing once as I struggled to stay awake last night.  "So are you excited for your sleep over?" she had overtones of sarcasm that I'm trying to read much into.  I know she's nervous and I get the impression she thinks the whole thing is silly.

She gets like this whenever I'm injured or sick.

Also had a realization last night... I feel I need her permission to sleep.  Odd.

[Notwendy]

She gets like this whenever I'm injured or sick.


I have two ideas for why this happens, one is that it increases a fear of abandonment.

The other is - while you didn't choose to be in victim position on the Karpman triangle, needing something like a medial test is perceived as that, and if she prefers victim position, then she needs to somehow have a greater need than you, or perceives you as doing this on purpose to be hurtful or neglectful.

The feeling of needing permission, I think, is a form of walking on eggshells- knowing this kind of thing upsets her and hoping she will understand.

The ramping up of BPD behavior if you are not feeling well is not unique to you. I have seen other posters report that. I saw it in my own parents. Self care is important and you need to carve out a boundary for that. I would suggest you line up the kids' aunt to help on that night. It's possible a kids' "crisis" might happen again to stop you. "The kids are upset when Dad is gone". Sure but they need you to be at your best. Take care of yourself.

[Marianne-11]

Hi Guts, good for you for going into the tests. Your health is definitely priority number one here!

Your wife’s behavior when you are sick or injured sounds very similar to how my BPDex behaved. He once got really furious and strongly felt insulted even when I had a serious infection and had to stay in the hospital for a week. That was a real eye opener for me of the fact that he did not have my best interest in mind. Milder, but similar reactions took place when I had the flu etc. Naturally, when he was ill, it was a totally different story   

I hope you enjoy the night off 

[ForeverDad]

I know someone, ahem, I'll let you guess who... He told the doctor he too often would find himself nodding off, even at a stop light.  Doc said two things always take priority, hearts and brains.  They quickly scheduled an overnight sleep test.  They commended him for his "heroic" snoring and 84 episodes per hour.  No wonder he never remembered dreams, he could never drift into the deep sleep stages.  That guy's been using a CPAP for about 20 years, he gets a replacement unit every 5 years or so.  Even when on vacation to the mountains he takes it with him, plugs it in to his car or a battery pack if he has to but it always goes everywhere with him.*  If ever he finds himself nodding off anywhere but an armchair he knows why.

* One time years ago out near the North Rim of the Grand Canyon in desolate Utah it died and he was able to borrow one from a super nice lady in a local supplies store, probably in Kanab.  It saved the vacation.

Literally nothing should stop you from that sleep test!

Frankly, I can't imagine she will let you rest in peace.  This may be a deciding factor more than you know.

[ThanksForPlaying]

Good luck with the tests - hope you get some helpful feedback.

This is not the same thing as apnea, but I thought of my own sleep issues. We currently have a weird sleep-related push/pull going on.

I stay up with the light on reading. -> "I can't sleep with the light on." Fair enough.

The next night, I turn the light off and watch TV with the volume very low. -> "The TV is too bright." Fair enough.

The next night, I stay up quietly reading news articles on my phone. -> "The phone is too bright." Fair enough, even though it's very dim.

The next night, I read a book in another room so as not to disturb her sleep at all. -> "I can't sleep knowing that you're awake." Now we're getting somewhere.

One night, I go to sleep before she does. -> "You're such a boring old man... what is wrong with our relationship? It's not exciting at all... All you do is ignore me and sleep."

Every day, I wake up around 8am, walk the dogs, clean the house, go to work while she sleeps until noon. So it is possible for her to sleep while I'm awake.

She would just prefer that I only sleep when she's sleeping, and only wake when she wakes... It's a weird enmeshment for sure. She also has an extreme aversion to any type of routine or schedule, which wreaks havoc on healthy sleep patterns. 11pm is "too early" some nights and "too late" some nights, and always provides ample reason to get upset with me.

[Guts42]

ForeverDad- did this person find it easier to stick up for himself after getting used to the CPAP?  I can imagine terrible sleep affecting will power!

ThanksForPlaying- sounds ALOT like my situation. I have to stay up until she's mentally ready for bed.  If I were to go to bed on my own she's made it clear I risk her staying up until who-knows-when and if she doesn't get enough sleep she's going to be a horrible parent the next day.  I get up at 5am to workout (in the garage) because it's the only time I'm allowed.  She often sleeps until 9am while I get the kids up, fed, and ready for the day.

I had my sleep study and I swear it feels like she got an IV and pumped her anxiety out of her and into the kids.  She was incredibly cold about about entire ordeal while the kids were anxious.  Apparently my D cried herself to sleep.  When I asked her what had her so upset she shrugged and said "I feel like you were dismissive with my emotions," followed by, "I dunno- you never leave so I just don't like it."  She's not even 9.

My uBPDw meanwhile seemed annoyed I wanted to call to say goodnight.  It was a total 180 from her behavior earlier.  It was as I was suddenly the one making a big deal out of it and not her!

[LovelyRita50]

I had my sleep study and I swear it feels like she got an IV and pumped her anxiety out of her and into the kids.  She was incredibly cold about about entire ordeal while the kids were anxious.  Apparently my D cried herself to sleep.  When I asked her what had her so upset she shrugged and said "I feel like you were dismissive with my emotions," followed by, "I dunno- you never leave so I just don't like it."  She's not even 9.

Yikes, this concerns me. Your DH saying "I feel like you were dismissive with my emotions" reminds me of all of the times my BPDex has said something like that to me.

Is it possible she's mirroring her mother? Her mother dumped her emotions on DH, so DH is, in turn, trying to dump them on you as she's seen Mom do?

I hope you can bring this up with DH's therapist. My Dad traveled occasionally for his job when I was growing up, and I don't remember having any "emotions" about it, except perhaps for missing him a little. At 9, I was too busy with school, my friends, and activities to worry about my dad being absent for a few nights. 

[Guts42]

Got my results!
I've got a lovely case of severe sleep apnea!  It explains so much!  Cannot wait to get my cpap and finally get some real sleep!  This has been going on for years apparently, at least 15 years but much worse over the past two years.  The doc suggests it's stress/anxiety making it worse.  I can't imagine where that's coming from? ;)

As expected my uBPDw was very concerned about how anxious she was about my results.  She showed me how shaky she was when I got home. She then expressed how she's likely not going to be able to sleep well until I do get my cpal because she's so worried.  It was all kind expected, but then as we're getting ready for bed...
"Do you think this explains your mood issues?  You know how you feel like you're one-step behind and like there's something bigger going on when we have our arguments? I think this explains all of your mood and depression issues.  It also probably explains all the fights in the first place.  I bet you'll be able to listen to me better."
*eye-roll*

[GaGrl]

Okay, now you know you have a physical, medical condition that must be carefully attended to. It is a health priority. You need your allocation of good sleep each night (my magic number is 7, others need 8).

Expect resistance from your wife.

How might that look and sound?

She may complain about the sound of the CPAP. She may choose to sleep in another room. She may claim it interferes with the bedtime routine, including sex. She may think it is the answer to argument problems (throwing blame) and react badly at the next argument that inevitably happens.

Give yourself 5-7 nights of good sleep, and see how much better you feel. Everyone I know who uses a CPAP rages about how it improved their health!