Fresh breakup, and I'm not coping very well

[Depression = 72% of members]

Wow, I read the post "Surviving a Break-up when Your Partner has Borderline Personality" and it was definitely describing what I've been through.

I ended a 12 year marriage last year and in March this year, met a new man.

The primary reason for my marriage ending was a lack of intimacy. My ex was a porn addict and didn't really have much interest in me.

My new man - let's call him Jason - (Sorry if your name is actually Jason. This isn't about you) was incredible.

He was still with his partner when we met (at the gym), and they have two young children together. He flirted with me and basically asked me if I'd sleep with him, as he was miserable and trapped and looking for happiness.

I said no, and that I wouldn't see him while he still lived with her.

Within a few weeks, he left her. He found a place to live and then sprung it on her one day that he was leaving. I had suggested that maybe they get counselling and support to separate, because blindsiding her didn't seem like a good option - but he insisted that she was such an angry person, that leaving her without warning was the only way.

I guess this was my first red flag that he wasn't able to cope well with conflict or difficult situations. Personally, despite having ended a marriage and two serious relationships beforehand, I've never had a really dramatic breakup, and am on good terms with my significant exes.

Anyway, she understandably didn't cope well with the breakup. She was angry at him for leaving her, and when she sent him hundreds of angry messages, he would just block her and delete them.

Our relationship was great - Jason called me twice a day at least, told me how beautiful and perfect and pretty and gorgeous and sexy I was... all the things my ex-husband never did. I revelled in it. It was the first time in my life that I felt like I had ever truly 'made love'. I've had numerous partners, but it had never been like that. He said the same. He said that his sex life with his ex had become so unsatisfying over the years and he'd never felt the way he did with me. I felt so comfortable being myself with him. I am carrying more weight than I'd like, and would go over with no makeup and just completely natural - and he would gush at how beautiful and perfect I was, just as I am.

This went on for a couple of months. In that time, we fell really deeply for each other. We both said "I love you" within a few weeks, and although I knew in my heart that it was probably not real, it felt so good. I was abandoning my business to spend the day in bed with him, and would often disappear to go and make love to him. He moved only 90 seconds drive up the road (literally), so it was easy to see him all the time.

He had never married his ex, but said that he wanted to marry me and be with me the rest of his life. He said he'd never met anyone like me, and I was the kindest, most wonderful, thoughtful, incredible woman he'd ever met.

The cracks appeared very quickly, but I smoothed them over. He would react so badly to a tiny thing - just as one example, when he moved into his new place, he couldn't find his remote control. I helped him look for it, and he had only just moved in a few days before (I helped him), and it was just one room and an ensuite... so the remote couldn't have gone far. I looked around the room about 4 times and then I opened his bedside table drawers (which I knew were basically empty) in case the remote had fallen in. He got really angry and snapped at me that I shouldn't look in his drawers. He went on and on, saying "What would you do if I came to your place and looked through your stuff?" I was very silent and clearly upset. I've honestly never been spoken to like that in my 46 years! He said to me "Don't be a dick" and then "I think you should go home". I had no idea what had just happened and I left.

A bit later he messaged me saying "You're so pretty. I love you." and then apologised and said he was sorry that he took his stress out on me.

A similar thing happened 2 or 3 other times. Each time, a little voice inside would say that this wasn't really acceptable... that it was basically a cycle of abuse... and I questioned the relationship.

However, he was SO SO loving, romantic and sexy. He danced with me in the kitchen and sang songs with me and we made the most spectacular love I've ever known. Both of us agreed that it just got better and better.

But then he started withdrawing his affection. One day he'd want to make love multiple times, the next time I saw him a few days later, he'd barely want to kiss or cuddle. When I wanted to, he'd get frustrated and say that I was needy. I found it really hard to understand - and this is when he told me he was bipolar. He said that he's always up and down and that's just him.

At the same time, things with his ex were increasingly bad. He wasn't seeing his kids, because every time he'd go over there, he'd end up in a fight with his ex and he'd leave again. He seemed to really, really hate her and was so vicious and angry when he talked about her. She was tracking his phone, driving past his house, hacking his social media, etc. When he got really angry in a text (when he found out she was tracking him and had called our hotel when we went away) she called the police and he was arrested and went to police lockup/court for domestic abuse.

Obviously it doesn't sound like the ideal man to be with, but the good part was so good, and he would say to me, "I'm so lucky to have you. I don't know how I would have survived all this without you." It felt great to be needed, appreciated and seen for the first time in my adult life.

Then one day, he suddenly got very upset at me and said that he wanted to break up. I'm living in a dual living property with my ex-husband because I'm waiting for settlement money. I can't afford to move without the money but we have two completely separate residences, so it's easy to live in the 'same house' without actually spending time together. We have a son and I wasn't going to just leave and abandon him, like Jason had done with his children. I get on well with my ex but there is zero romantic or relationship connection. It's important to me that we stay friends, since we need to co-parent. Jason didn't believe me and said that I must still be in love with my ex, and that he doesn't think we should see each other until I move.

After a few discussions, and a few more amazing romantic encounters at his place, he changed his mind. He said he'd been crazy to think that we should break up, because I'm the best thing that ever happened to him. His calling/texting had dropped off a huge amount though, which I found difficult. I've since found out that I'm an 'Anxious' attachment style, which means that regular contact and communication is really important to me, and I can easily feel worried, stressed, or abandoned without it.

He'd also cheated on both his previous partners numerous times, so there was a part of me that worried about that... or at least that he'd go back to his ex. His children were not coping, and the youngest one (5) was crying all the time and begging him to come home. I said to him, "I would understand if you went back for the kids. I'd be sad and heartbroken, but I would understand and I wouldn't be angry."

He said, "Are you crazy? I could never go back to her after what she's done."

Things were still up and down. One day he'd message me saying how much he loved me, and then he'd be silent for two days. I found it really difficult and tried to talk to him to understand. This is when he told me that he's also got BPD. I'd never heard of it before and didn't research it at the time.

3 weeks ago was the last time I was at his house. It was the night before school vacation started, and I stayed at his place. He cooked me a beautiful dinner, we had awesome sex 5 times, and everything was good. The following night we made plans to spend the following weekend together. Since the kids were going to be home, his plan was to see them every day and night, and then he'd be able to do his own thing on the weekend. He said it was tricky to see me as often as we'd like, because his ex was saying things like, "If I find out you're with anyone else, you'll never see the kids or me again," and if the kids asked him to come over and he said no, she'd say, "Too bad you're too busy to see your kids. Maybe you can't see them anymore."

So, assuming that was true, I do see that he was in a difficult spot.

They weren't on speaking terms and he told her (I saw his messages) that he didn't want to talk or hear from her unless it was about the kids. Mind you, he's also still got a DVO (domestic violence order) against him from the police incident after the angry message he sent her a couple of months ago. He's not legally supposed to see her or the kids.

In the week between that awesome night and our weekend plans, things started to unravel. He stopped calling and messaging me. When I called, he'd answer and say, "I'm at work, I'll call you back in a minute," and then wouldn't. He stayed with the children every single night (on a mattress in their room, apparently).

On the Friday night, he texted and said that he needed a quiet night at home. He said he'd call me and then didn't. The next day (when he was supposed to come spend the weekend with me) he didn't answer my calls or texts, and I lost it. I had a big meltdown, because after weeks of reduced contact, I was just so confused. What happened to the man who said he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me?

I tried calling him a few times and he blocked me.

It was so frustrating! I had bared my soul to him and been so open and vulnerable with him (and him with me). We had done things I'd never done before and I'd felt so comfortable.

And suddenly, he wouldn't even let me speak.

I ended up driving up to his house (the new one he had rented a room in) and confronted him. I asked him why he'd blocked me. He said "You're going through so much with your ex, the business, and you haven't been spending enough time with your son. You don't need all my crap and to worry about me on top of that."

I said, "How is blocking me going to help that?"

He said he didn't really know (he didn't say much - he was a bit stunned, and was also rushing out the door to work when I arrived)... and of course, I was sobbing with my broken heart. I asked him if he was back with his ex and he said no. He said it has nothing to do with her, and he just needs to get 'back to his normal self' because his anxiety had been so bad for a while and he needed to feel like his old self again... and THEN we could get back together. He told me that he loved me, and to trust him and that everything was going to be okay.

Since he was rushing to work, he said he'd call me later. He didn't call. He texted me in the middle of the night to apologise, and said that his car had broken down and he'd had a bad day at work etc etc... but that I wasn't blocked and he'd call me later. He didn't call.

He messaged me a couple of days later saying that he'd been really busy with kids and work and there hadn't been much time for talking. I tried calling and he'd blocked me again.

His ex lives around the corner from me, and unfortunately her house is on the main thoroughfare in our town, so I drive past it most days that I'm out. Every time I've gone past in the last week, he's been there... even though the children are at school.

So I'm quite sure they are back together...

and I'm heartbroken.

I'm left here wondering what on earth happened and how I get over it.

Sorry for the long story. This is so new to me and I'm struggling to get through each day sometimes. I've been praying ho'oponopono the last few days, meditating, doing a manifestation program which I'd signed up to and then not done when I met him... and doing what I can, but my heart is still hurting so much.

I'd love some words of advice, support, or encouragement.

Thank you
Kitty.

[KittyB]

Wow, I read the post "Surviving a Break-up when Your Partner has Borderline Personality" and it was definitely describing what I've been through.

I ended a 12 year marriage last year and in March this year, met a new man.

The primary reason for my marriage ending was a lack of intimacy. My ex was a porn addict and didn't really have much interest in me.

My new man - let's call him Jason - (Sorry if your name is actually Jason. This isn't about you) was incredible.

He was still with his partner when we met (at the gym), and they have two young children together. He flirted with me and basically asked me if I'd sleep with him, as he was miserable and trapped and looking for happiness.

I said no, and that I wouldn't see him while he still lived with her.

Within a few weeks, he left her. He found a place to live and then sprung it on her one day that he was leaving. I had suggested that maybe they get counselling and support to separate, because blindsiding her didn't seem like a good option - but he insisted that she was such an angry person, that leaving her without warning was the only way.

I guess this was my first red flag that he wasn't able to cope well with conflict or difficult situations. Personally, despite having ended a marriage and two serious relationships beforehand, I've never had a really dramatic breakup, and am on good terms with my significant exes.

Anyway, she understandably didn't cope well with the breakup. She was angry at him for leaving her, and when she sent him hundreds of angry messages, he would just block her and delete them.

Our relationship was great - Jason called me twice a day at least, told me how beautiful and perfect and pretty and gorgeous and sexy I was... all the things my ex-husband never did. I revelled in it. It was the first time in my life that I felt like I had ever truly 'made love'. I've had numerous partners, but it had never been like that. He said the same. He said that his sex life with his ex had become so unsatisfying over the years and he'd never felt the way he did with me. I felt so comfortable being myself with him. I am carrying more weight than I'd like, and would go over with no makeup and just completely natural - and he would gush at how beautiful and perfect I was, just as I am.

This went on for a couple of months. In that time, we fell really deeply for each other. We both said "I love you" within a few weeks, and although I knew in my heart that it was probably not real, it felt so good. I was abandoning my business to spend the day in bed with him, and would often disappear to go and make love to him. He moved only 90 seconds drive up the road (literally), so it was easy to see him all the time.

He had never married his ex, but said that he wanted to marry me and be with me the rest of his life. He said he'd never met anyone like me, and I was the kindest, most wonderful, thoughtful, incredible woman he'd ever met.

The cracks appeared very quickly, but I smoothed them over. He would react so badly to a tiny thing - just as one example, when he moved into his new place, he couldn't find his remote control. I helped him look for it, and he had only just moved in a few days before (I helped him), and it was just one room and an ensuite... so the remote couldn't have gone far. I looked around the room about 4 times and then I opened his bedside table drawers (which I knew were basically empty) in case the remote had fallen in. He got really angry and snapped at me that I shouldn't look in his drawers. He went on and on, saying "What would you do if I came to your place and looked through your stuff?" I was very silent and clearly upset. I've honestly never been spoken to like that in my 46 years! He said to me "Don't be a dick" and then "I think you should go home". I had no idea what had just happened and I left.

A bit later he messaged me saying "You're so pretty. I love you." and then apologised and said he was sorry that he took his stress out on me.

A similar thing happened 2 or 3 other times. Each time, a little voice inside would say that this wasn't really acceptable... that it was basically a cycle of abuse... and I questioned the relationship.

However, he was SO SO loving, romantic and sexy. He danced with me in the kitchen and sang songs with me and we made the most spectacular love I've ever known. Both of us agreed that it just got better and better.

But then he started withdrawing his affection. One day he'd want to make love multiple times, the next time I saw him a few days later, he'd barely want to kiss or cuddle. When I wanted to, he'd get frustrated and say that I was needy. I found it really hard to understand - and this is when he told me he was bipolar. He said that he's always up and down and that's just him.

At the same time, things with his ex were increasingly bad. He wasn't seeing his kids, because every time he'd go over there, he'd end up in a fight with his ex and he'd leave again. He seemed to really, really hate her and was so vicious and angry when he talked about her. She was tracking his phone, driving past his house, hacking his social media, etc. When he got really angry in a text (when he found out she was tracking him and had called our hotel when we went away) she called the police and he was arrested and went to police lockup/court for domestic abuse.

Obviously it doesn't sound like the ideal man to be with, but the good part was so good, and he would say to me, "I'm so lucky to have you. I don't know how I would have survived all this without you." It felt great to be needed, appreciated and seen for the first time in my adult life.

Then one day, he suddenly got very upset at me and said that he wanted to break up. I'm living in a dual living property with my ex-husband because I'm waiting for settlement money. I can't afford to move without the money but we have two completely separate residences, so it's easy to live in the 'same house' without actually spending time together. We have a son and I wasn't going to just leave and abandon him, like Jason had done with his children. I get on well with my ex but there is zero romantic or relationship connection. It's important to me that we stay friends, since we need to co-parent. Jason didn't believe me and said that I must still be in love with my ex, and that he doesn't think we should see each other until I move.

After a few discussions, and a few more amazing romantic encounters at his place, he changed his mind. He said he'd been crazy to think that we should break up, because I'm the best thing that ever happened to him. His calling/texting had dropped off a huge amount though, which I found difficult. I've since found out that I'm an 'Anxious' attachment style, which means that regular contact and communication is really important to me, and I can easily feel worried, stressed, or abandoned without it.

He'd also cheated on both his previous partners numerous times, so there was a part of me that worried about that... or at least that he'd go back to his ex. His children were not coping, and the youngest one (5) was crying all the time and begging him to come home. I said to him, "I would understand if you went back for the kids. I'd be sad and heartbroken, but I would understand and I wouldn't be angry."

He said, "Are you crazy? I could never go back to her after what she's done."

Things were still up and down. One day he'd message me saying how much he loved me, and then he'd be silent for two days. I found it really difficult and tried to talk to him to understand. This is when he told me that he's also got BPD. I'd never heard of it before and didn't research it at the time.

3 weeks ago was the last time I was at his house. It was the night before school vacation started, and I stayed at his place. He cooked me a beautiful dinner, we had awesome sex 5 times, and everything was good. The following night we made plans to spend the following weekend together. Since the kids were going to be home, his plan was to see them every day and night, and then he'd be able to do his own thing on the weekend. He said it was tricky to see me as often as we'd like, because his ex was saying things like, "If I find out you're with anyone else, you'll never see the kids or me again," and if the kids asked him to come over and he said no, she'd say, "Too bad you're too busy to see your kids. Maybe you can't see them anymore."

So, assuming that was true, I do see that he was in a difficult spot.

They weren't on speaking terms and he told her (I saw his messages) that he didn't want to talk or hear from her unless it was about the kids. Mind you, he's also still got a DVO (domestic violence order) against him from the police incident after the angry message he sent her a couple of months ago. He's not legally supposed to see her or the kids.

In the week between that awesome night and our weekend plans, things started to unravel. He stopped calling and messaging me. When I called, he'd answer and say, "I'm at work, I'll call you back in a minute," and then wouldn't. He stayed with the children every single night (on a mattress in their room, apparently).

On the Friday night, he texted and said that he needed a quiet night at home. He said he'd call me and then didn't. The next day (when he was supposed to come spend the weekend with me) he didn't answer my calls or texts, and I lost it. I had a big meltdown, because after weeks of reduced contact, I was just so confused. What happened to the man who said he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me?

I tried calling him a few times and he blocked me.

It was so frustrating! I had bared my soul to him and been so open and vulnerable with him (and him with me). We had done things I'd never done before and I'd felt so comfortable.

And suddenly, he wouldn't even let me speak.

I ended up driving up to his house (the new one he had rented a room in) and confronted him. I asked him why he'd blocked me. He said "You're going through so much with your ex, the business, and you haven't been spending enough time with your son. You don't need all my crap and to worry about me on top of that."

I said, "How is blocking me going to help that?"

He said he didn't really know (he didn't say much - he was a bit stunned, and was also rushing out the door to work when I arrived)... and of course, I was sobbing with my broken heart. I asked him if he was back with his ex and he said no. He said it has nothing to do with her, and he just needs to get 'back to his normal self' because his anxiety had been so bad for a while and he needed to feel like his old self again... and THEN we could get back together. He told me that he loved me, and to trust him and that everything was going to be okay.

Since he was rushing to work, he said he'd call me later. He didn't call. He texted me in the middle of the night to apologise, and said that his car had broken down and he'd had a bad day at work etc etc... but that I wasn't blocked and he'd call me later. He didn't call.

He messaged me a couple of days later saying that he'd been really busy with kids and work and there hadn't been much time for talking. I tried calling and he'd blocked me again.

His ex lives around the corner from me, and unfortunately her house is on the main thoroughfare in our town, so I drive past it most days that I'm out. Every time I've gone past in the last week, he's been there... even though the children are at school.

So I'm quite sure they are back together...

and I'm heartbroken.

I'm left here wondering what on earth happened and how I get over it.

Sorry for the long story. This is so new to me and I'm struggling to get through each day sometimes. I've been praying ho'oponopono the last few days, meditating, doing a manifestation program which I'd signed up to and then not done when I met him... and doing what I can, but my heart is still hurting so much.

I'd love some words of advice, support, or encouragement.

Thank you
Kitty.

[KittyB]

I want to add that I spoke to a counsellor who has experience with BPD, and she said that because his relationship with his ex was so toxic, that he probably has gone back, BUT has left the door open with me by saying that it was only temporary... and that it's highly likely he will be back soon, as soon as they start fighting again.

Even in the last 3 weeks that things went downhill massively, he would block me, then unblock me, message me to say he misses me or will call me, and then block me again.

So admittedly, a part of me is hoping that I will hear from him. Even if I reject him, I want to know that he missed me and came back.

Does that sound ridiculous?

[Sappho11]

Sorry you're going through all of this, Kitty. You have my full sympathies. Much of what you describe might as well be describing my last relationship. Sometimes down to the very word (such as him saying you look perfect without makeup, wanting to marry you almost right away, overreacting to small things, the endless oscillation between seeming great closeness and rejection, etc.).

There's not much I can say to console you other than two things.

First are a lot of things that may sound trite: You've dodged a bullet, be glad you got out, it does get better. I'm two-and-a-half months out of a relationship like yours and I'm slowly beginning to see that this was incredibly lucky. If my ex hadn't broken up with me, I would have married him, had children with him, and likely have wasted twenty or thirty years of my life on a deeply troubling, toxic, degenerative dynamic.

The second thing I'd like to share is a thought I had this morning. Like you, my last relationship made me wonder whether I had an anxious attachment style. But like you, I've had good relationships without the drama, and dated men that made me feel secure. So, while it is certainly noble to take responsibility, I'd just like to throw in that perhaps it isn't you who's got the problem, it's him. The way you speak about your last marriage suggests that you're more than able to form secure attachments. The anxiety and insecurity you felt might not be part of your makeup; it might simply have been your intuition warning you that something was very, very wrong.

These volatile, ill-fated relationships tend to wear us down and can plunge even the healthiest person into deep neuroses.

[Sappho11]

And no, you're not ridiculous for secretly wishing for him to come back and apologise. It's a normal and understandable reaction (I had it too).

What helped me back then was to write down all the incidents in which my ex had behaved selfishly and hurtfully (not just towards me but to others, too). Having eleven pages of concrete evidence in front of me, all at once, made me see him in a complete different light. As time went on, I felt less and less desire for reconciliation, and more and more that I just wanted him to leave me alone.

The other day I talked about this with my counsellor and she said that this was a good coping strategy: to allow yourself to feel the hurt and especially (what we women often struggle with) the aggression that comes with being mistreated for so long. Aggression, or rather, harnessing it, becomes the great motor to get over this and to turn your life into something better.

[KittyB]

And no, you're not ridiculous for secretly wishing for him to come back and apologise. It's a normal and understandable reaction (I had it too).

What helped me back then was to write down all the incidents in which my ex had behaved selfishly and hurtfully (not just towards me but to others, too). Having eleven pages of concrete evidence in front of me, all at once, made me see him in a complete different light. As time went on, I felt less and less desire for reconciliation, and more and more that I just wanted him to leave me alone.

The other day I talked about this with my counsellor and she said that this was a good coping strategy: to allow yourself to feel the hurt and especially (what we women often struggle with) the aggression that comes with being mistreated for so long. Aggression, or rather, harnessing it, becomes the great motor to get over this and to turn your life into something better.

Thank you so much for this. I have written that list as well as a series of letters (for moving on the energy), and you're right - thinking about the negative side does help (a bit at least) because when I think a lot about it, it does make me feel annoyed and then I don't want him back. Of course I oscillate between that and missing him!

[KittyB]

First are a lot of things that may sound trite: You've dodged a bullet, be glad you got out, it does get better. I'm two-and-a-half months out of a relationship like yours and I'm slowly beginning to see that this was incredibly lucky. If my ex hadn't broken up with me, I would have married him, had children with him, and likely have wasted twenty or thirty years of my life on a deeply troubling, toxic, degenerative dynamic.

I do get this... in a way I feel lucky that it happened so soon. He has had only two previous relationships - a 12 year and a 10 year relationship, both with two kids, and I know he cheated on them both numerous times (he was an air steward for 7  years as well, which gave him ample opportunity) and as far as I can tell (although he denies it), he left the first one for the second one... and then he left her for me. He had let slip a couple of times that he'd cheated when he was drunk and another time when they'd had a fight... so it didn't take much for him to rush into the arms of someone else.

It does make me think that, despite his protestations that he would NEVER cheat on me, that it's inevitable he would at some point... and effectively, it seems like he has anyway, if he has gone back to his ex.

The way he blindsided her when he left always bothered me too. When we met and he liked me, I asked if they were still intimate and he said "Yes, but only to keep the peace". I asked if she would see his departure coming, and he said no, because they were still having sex and he was still affectionate, even though he was mostly pretending. It did make me wonder what he was capable of... but of course, he said she was so angry all the time - at both him and the kids - and she was violent. She used to hit and slap him and threaten him with frypans etc. So he made her sound terrible, and who knows, maybe she is and has her own issues, but now I'm wondering if that's just part of who is is. No awareness of how he might contribute. After all, I've been crazy the last few weeks... I've driven by his house and her house almost every day, to work out if he's there, called and texted him (I stopped that 5 days ago now though), cried every day, not been sleeping or eating, and struggled with being there for my son because I'm so miserable. The idea of what things might look like if I spent a few years with him and THEN this happened, does make me feel like it's a lucky escape!

[KittyB]

The second thing I'd like to share is a thought I had this morning. Like you, my last relationship made me wonder whether I had an anxious attachment style. But like you, I've had good relationships without the drama, and dated men that made me feel secure. So, while it is certainly noble to take responsibility, I'd just like to throw in that perhaps it isn't you who's got the problem, it's him. The way you speak about your last marriage suggests that you're more than able to form secure attachments. The anxiety and insecurity you felt might not be part of your makeup; it might simply have been your intuition warning you that something was very, very wrong.

These volatile, ill-fated relationships tend to wear us down and can plunge even the healthiest person into deep neuroses.

This does make sense too. I DO think I'm fairly anxious in my attachment style (I'm reading the book "Attached" this weekend, which is really fascinating), but it does tend to come out when I'm with someone avoidant. Jason was very attached in one aspect of his personality, but then completely avoidant when the 'other side' came out. I've had many short relationships in my single years where I ended almost every single one, because I got bored or lost interest... and I feel like on some level, the drama with this one did keep me on a very engaging rollercoaster. Always trying to 'win him back' and have him prove that he loved me.

Very useful experience to allow me to see the red flags next time. Sleeping with him almost immediately didn't help, of course. That's where the trap came. I got to experience the extreme highs of the greatest sex of my life! But I guess, in my defence, he was the first person I'd been with after 12 years with a man who largely ignored me in terms of intimacy... so now that I've got that out of my system, maybe I can date in observation mode next time, and not jump into the physical. That is my weakness.

[KittyB]

Interesting update... I called his housemate, 'Grant', last night. He's a lovely man and we always got on really well when I was over there - and apparently he was very jealous (in a funny, lighthearted way) of our relationship, because Jason had told him that we had the best sex the world had ever seen.

Anyway, I have been trying to buy somewhere to live, and happen to have found a place that is literally a few hundred metres from Jason and Grant's place. When I first found it, Jason and I were still together, so I thought it would be awesome to be so close... but now, of course, it's a different story. I don't want to be living somewhere that I can see cars coming and going from his place, because I'll always wonder if he's with another woman.

I had texted Jason a few days ago, asking if he has moved back to his ex, because I am thinking of buying the apartment but I won't if he still lives with Grant. Of course he didn't answer, and I don't know if I was blocked at the time or not!

So yesterday I finally called Grant and told him about the apartment and asked if Jason was still living with him or had gone back to his ex. He said, "He still lives with me and hasn't gone back. He's spending a lot of time over there with the kids, but to my knowledge, they're not together... but I don't know for sure." I gave him a quick overview of what had happened and Grant has been through similar with a past gf, so he was very sympathetic and suggested I give Jason space, and he'll calm down and things might be okay. Grant doesn't know that Jason is bipolar or has BPD either.

Anyway, it got me wondering... Jason normally sits down and tells Grant everything. They have heart-to-hearts all the time and Grant even cried to Jason about the breakdown of his relationship. But it seems like in the past few weeks, Jason has been at his exes/kids' place all the time and they haven't spoken much.

It makes me wonder if Jason IS going back to his ex, that he won't pre-warn Grant either... he won't tell Grant if they're back together, because he won't want to have the conversation about moving out. That he'll arrange to go back to her, wait for the day his rent is due, and then spring it on Grant, without warning.

As a side note, Jason's boss once told me that Jason tends to avoid difficult conversations or one where there will potentially be any kind of conflict... I didn't worry too much about it at the time, but looking back, I imagine Jason's BPD spills into other areas of his life too? He does seem to go well at work though, so I wonder if his worst behaviour is saved for the people closest to him...?

[KittyB]

I have been going backwards the last couple of days, after doing quite well...

I think the thing that hurts the most is thinking that maybe he never loved me, and everything he said about me being beautiful and perfect and wonderful was a lie so that he could have fun in bed with me while getting over her... and now that I think he's back with her, I've been discarded.

But then this morning I was talking to my mum, and told her about his history of going to prison a couple of times for a couple of months, and an article I found that said he assaulted a 72 year old man (which he had told me was incorrect, and it was a misunderstanding etc)... plus some inconsistencies in his stories about fighting/violence...

It is helping me remind myself, "Lucky escape... Lucky escape..."

[Sappho11]

I get where you're coming from. Like Jason did for you, my ex left his long-term girlfriend (8 years) for me. She never saw it coming. Allegedly she even begged him not to leave her and suggested that he should date both her and me for a couple of months. (I was appalled and he agreed, though presumably for different reasons.) He told me all kinds of things about her, insinuating how she was beneath him in every way, but that she was a good person, just really plain and not right for him, and that he'd never been in love with her.

As time went on, he confessed that he had beaten her twice and had cheated on her with a prostitute (allegedly with her encouragement, yeah right). I told him that that would never fly with me, and he seemed uneasy from that very moment onwards. Things only ever got worse from that point.

After our relationship ended for the second and final time, it slowly began to dawn on me that he had actually been controlling his ex's every step for eight years (i.e. her entire adult life). It was sobering, frightening even. She lived in his house even after they'd separated. She worked as a lowly assistant in his mother's law firm. She even uses his mother's car on a daily basis to this day. Once I searched her on Facebook and found her: and her interests matched his in every respect, down to his favourite bands, films and games. There was nothing on her profile which pointed to any personality of her own. It was chilling.

Suddenly so many little things began to make sense to me: How he'd always need to know where I was going and what I was doing, how he'd complain that he wasn't the one calling all the shots any more, how he'd fly into a rage over something as plain as my asking him whether we could meet up on a certain weekday instead of another. He was only happy when he felt he had complete power over me. Anything less than that incited his unfettered hatred and disgust.

I'd known him for two years before we got together and I would NEVER have imagined that this apparently tender, gentle, caring, golden-hearted, introverted, even meek man could turn out to be such a raging despot.

There's always a considerable element of (struggle for) control in BPD relationships. It's the root cause of all conflict.

A lucky escape for the both of us, indeed. –

Another thing. Wondering whether or not he ever loved you might not quite be the right question; perhaps a better question is "Did this man whom I love ever really exist, or was he merely my fantasy?"

I can only speak for myself, but now, with some distance, I realise that even the honeymoon/idealisation period was already fraught with difficulties and red flags, actually even the two years beforehand while we weren't romantically involved. Right before we got together, I was in a really dark spot, overworked, excruciatingly lonely (a long-term problem) and contemplating suicide. I had nowhere to go, no-one to turn to. I was so, so tired. And suddenly, the weekly chats at work with my (to-be) ex, which had previously only been a minor pleasure, suddenly seemed so comforting, like a warm, soft feather bed... I fell hook, line and sinker for the caring, tender facade he presented to the world, without thinking twice about verifying it, let alone having him prove it with actions. In hindsight, I should have seen through it in an instant. But there was also an overwhelming, wordless part in me that wanted to believe the fairytale. So I helped him prop up and embellish the facade, behind which there was – nothing.

"What people commonly call >Fate< is generally nothing more than their own foolish actions." Arthur Schopenhauer.

[Sappho11]

About Jason assaulting a 72-year-old man, that reminded me... my ex and I once went on a hike, and a cyclist behind us around that age rang the bell. He passed and yelled "Thank you" over his shoulder. My ex suddenly lunged forward and hissed "Shut up!" I stopped in my tracks and softly nudged him with the elbow. "What was that? Why are you insulting this pensioner?" – "Didn't you hear how passive-aggressively he yelled thank you?" "You can't insult elderly people that way! And it was a normal thank you!" "Oh was it? Whatever."

He also had a habit of being obnoxious to strangers in general, e.g. barging through people instead of saying "excuse me", once even at the top of a watchtower, causing another man great distress, etc.

The other day I took the https://www.mosaicmethod.com assessment, which placed him as a 5 on the 1-10 domestic violence risk scale – putting him in a group where things would likely have escalated into physical abuse in the mid- to long-term. That was sobering to read.

Perhaps looking at it can help you make sense of your situation with Jason, too.

In any case, you've got this.  

[KittyB]

Another thing. Wondering whether or not he ever loved you might not quite be the right question; perhaps a better question is "Did this man whom I love ever really exist, or was he merely my fantasy?"

Oh my goodness, this.

[KittyB]

About Jason assaulting a 72-year-old man...

Jason was actually the total opposite. Everybody who met him loved him. He got on with everybody. He was kind and said lovely things about other people ALL THE TIME. He'd describe everybody as a "really beautiful person".

Except his ex. Oh man, the things he said about her made my toes curl. He seemed to really, really hate her. Having now been on the receiving end of his blocking, I can see why she was going crazy. He walked out on her after almost 10 years and 2 kids together. She didn't see it coming, even though it sounds like they had an awful relationship.

With regards to the assault on the old man, he said it was all fabricated, and that the media had completely misreported it because the old man's wife had made half of it up. He also said other things in the article (it mentioned other incidents) were wrong.

I actually emailed the journalist this morning, who has responded to say that he can assure me it was all true and on public record as said in court by the prosecution, defence, and magistrate... and he's going to call me tomorrow with more info. Will be interesting to see what he says.

[KittyB]

The other day I took the https://www.mosaicmethod.com assessment,

I just did this and it was tricky, because most of the worrying behaviours are really with relation to his ex, rather than me. He's told me about things about them that worried me... rather than me being worried for myself.

I tried to answer for myself, rather than for her, and got a 5... but I think it would be higher for her. Still, if he hadn't physically assaulted her in 10 years, I'm guessing it's unlikely it would start. My thought is that he yells and carries on, but isn't physical. Still, I could be wrong. It's not like he'd admit he hit her. He swore on his children's lives (who he loves more than life) that he never hit her, but he swore on their life a couple of weeks ago that he'd call me when I was upset, and he didn't... so I don't think it means anything.

[Sappho11]

Jason was actually the total opposite. Everybody who met him loved him. He got on with everybody. He was kind and said lovely things about other people ALL THE TIME. He'd describe everybody as a "really beautiful person".

That's what got me, too. It wasn't until more than two years after knowing him, and a good half year into the relationship, that he started showing this brutal side. Before that, my ex had been like you describe Jason, including his tender and caring descriptios of other people.

It really made me question how well, or rather how poorly, we actually get to know most people we're not in a relationship with.

With regards to the assault on the old man, he said it was all fabricated, and that the media had completely misreported it because the old man's wife had made half of it up. He also said other things in the article (it mentioned other incidents) were wrong.

I actually emailed the journalist this morning, who has responded to say that he can assure me it was all true and on public record as said in court by the prosecution, defence, and magistrate... and he's going to call me tomorrow with more info. Will be interesting to see what he says.

Sounds like good detective work!

[KittyB]

I'm still struggling with this so badly.

My biggest thing is that I hate it that he has blocked me and won't talk to me. He won't be honest with me about going back to his ex. He's treating me like he treated her when he left her... so now I know he has made me the "crazy" "psycho" woman (all the stuff he used to say about her).

He won't acknowledge me at all.

I sent him an email to say that I don't want to be together, that I just want him to give me a respectful goodbye, and I could tell from the tracking pixel on the email that he deleted it without reading it.

I want to go and yell in his face that he is the one with the problem! If anything, the thing making me crazy is his behaviour... I've never been like this before! I want to let go but I'm finding it so hard.

I have been speaking to a coach/therapist, and I acknowledge that staying in my sadness keeps me connected to him.

It's just SO hard to accept that this person who said they loved me so, so much can now be so cold.

It consumes me day and night.

[charmee]

For me this quote I read describes dealing with a Borderline the best

They love without measure those they will soon hate without reason.

To me this says it all. After five years I got an email stating, it was over, the week before it was love love love. He said it was not my fault, he wanted to be alone. Two weeks later he was with someone else. It was all a fantasy.

Its been 4 months, I have been doing tons of self care and know I will never get involved with a man who complains about all of his ex's when you meet him and plays the victim, never owning his part in anything, huge red flag.

[KittyB]

For me this quote I read describes dealing with a Borderline the best

They love without measure those they will soon hate without reason.

Oh wow, this is brutal. I can totally see it now... being on the receiving end is a nightmare. I find it so hard to accept though.

I have drafted him an email, threatening to tell her everything if he doesn't ring and be honest with me. I want him to own up to his BS because he lied to me and to her so that he could have what he wanted. I have given him leeway because of his BPD, but he goes around lying and cheating and thinks there is no consequence. He just deletes and blocks and expects the woman to go away (first, his partner, and then me).

A coach friend of mine said that he is using BPD to excuse bad behaviour.

I want to make him face it.

[tvda]

Oh honey... We all do.

But as they say: the strongest negotiation position is being willing to walk away from the table. And that's where disordered people (will) always have the upper hand on us nons who know how to love.

[KittyB]

Oh honey... We all do.

But as they say: the strongest negotiation position is being willing to walk away from the table. And that's where disordered people (will) always have the upper hand on us nons who know how to love.

Thank you... It's tough, because realistically, they are really just 'getting away with' their behaviour because of a disorder. Whenever my boyfriend was rude to me (he snapped and swore about next to nothing a few times), he'd say he just wears his heart on his sleeve; and when he rejected my affection, he'd blame his bipolar. I feel like the disorders are just an excuse to do what they like and expect no repercussions.

[KittyB]

Ahhh... all very interesting developments since I last wrote.

Last weekend, I bumped into him at the grocery store. His kids were there and he said that they can't see him talking to me (his ex doesn't know he's been with someone and threatened to stop him seeing the kids if she ever found out he was with someone, because she wants him back). He asked me to have coffee with him the next day to talk.

The next day he invited me to his house instead (I was shocked he didn't cancel - because he'd blocked me for the most part of 3 weeks)... and when I got there, he apologised for how he'd behaved and said that he knows he didn't handle it very well. He said he doesn't know why he acts the way he does, but he doesn't deal well with stress or difficult situations, and he knows he was a **** and had hurt me... that he still loves me and he's sorry.

He said that he can't have a relationship right now because things are still too difficult with his ex and trying to see the children and work out what that is all going to look like... but would I consider just having a physical relationship with him.

I said that I can't do physical-only, because I still love him and it would be impossible to be non-emotional or involved.

He spent an hour telling me how beautiful I am and how much he missed me and how good I smell, and I ended up giving in and having sex with him.

That was a week ago, and in the interim, we've spoken on the phone a few times.. but it's not going to work. He's still extremely volatile. On Thursday I had too much to drink with a girlfriend, and ended up calling him. I literally can't remember 99% of the conversation (I don't normally drink so it hit me hard), but I know I spent most of it crying.

I am pretty sure he has been sleeping with his ex and potentially trying to make it work (even though he denies it) - but clearly that hasn't worked, as after spending every night there for a month, he was suddenly home every night last week and didn't see his kids at all to my knowledge.

Saturday night he called me late. He'd clearly been drinking and I think smoking something as well. He rung to say that he still loves me and he doesn't really know what to do and what's happening in his life. He's struggling. He said he doesn't understand why someone as smart as me bothers with him and all his drama. I said it's because I love him and see the best in him. I told him all the things I love about him and he said that he's never had anyone say all those good things and it's hard to hear. His biggest issue is that I still live with my ex in a dual living property. We have separate lives and everything, but it's been purely financial. My settlement has taken a long time and I need that money to move. Jason went on and on about how I haven't moved and he thinks I'm lying about my marriage ending, and that I still love my ex (I don't). The conversation had no real ending, as he actually ended up falling asleep while on the phone and I eventually hung up when I heard him snoring. I was a bit concerned as he sounds a bit like he's unraveling.

He keeps me blocked because when he's with his kids, they use his phone all the time... so we're still back where we were. Today I showed up to his house to see if he was okay, but he was angry that I showed up without calling and told me to call him. He didn't want to speak to me and said that he's not in the mood. I said that my situation is not the issue because he can call or text me any time he wants. He said "It's not a problem for you maybe." I said that the issue is with him and his ex, because I can't call or text him at all when he's with her and the kids. That their involvement is the issue here, because they haven't moved on from each other.

Anyway, ultimately I had to leave because he kind of pushed me out the door (metaphorically). He told me to call him instead.

I called when I got home (from a private number, since he's blocked me), and he answered. He didn't want to talk though and said he'll call me when he's ready to talk.

I said that I've never done anything to deserve the way he's treating me. That I've only ever loved him, and that I'm done with the drama. I said we can't go on anymore and he needs to cut me out forever because I'm sick of the whole thing, because if we don't have communication and trust, then we have nothing.

I ended up saying, "Just remember it's you who broke this. Not me." and I hung up.

No idea what will happen from here, but I am doing my best to move on. There is way too much drama and even for love and the greatest sex of my life, it's not worth it.

[grumpydonut]

Woah, sorry to read that Kitty. That is really rough.

Hope you're dealing well.

[KittyB]

Woah, sorry to read that Kitty. That is really rough.

Hope you're dealing well.

Thank you so much @grumpydonut. It's been a big rollercoaster, although, reading some of the posts with people who have come out of 10 and 20+ year relationships, I got off quite lightly!

Letting go and moving on is a priority, but still hard, as deep down, I know that I really want him to suddenly change and go back to loving me in a way that won't hurt!

[grumpydonut]

really want him to suddenly change and go back to loving me in a way that won't hurt!

I can relate. It's really painful. I'm about 16 months out of the relationship now, my experience is that eventually I started to realise I wasn't yearning for her but rather the feeling of connection I had with another human.

I hope it starts to get better for you soon.

[Sappho11]

Some "men"... only "apologises" in order to keep you around as a booty call.

Having a personality disorder is one thing, but it's no excuse for constantly acting like a selfish, egomaniacal tosser with no regards for other people's feelings.

[KittyB]

I can relate. It's really painful. I'm about 16 months out of the relationship now, my experience is that eventually I started to realise I wasn't yearning for her but rather the feeling of connection I had with another human.

I can relate. His behaviour was pretty ordinary sometimes, even when we were together... so looking back, it's the feeling of being loved so much and feeling so close that I miss... rather than him per se.

[KittyB]

Some "men"... only "apologises" in order to keep you around as a booty call.

Having a personality disorder is one thing, but it's no excuse for constantly acting like a selfish, egomaniacal tosser with no regards for other people's feelings.

Yes, it does make me wonder. When I went to his house, he'd just come off 3 weeks of blocking me, and suddenly he's all over me, saying all the right things and trying to kiss and cuddle me. Today he was completely cold again and it just doesn't make sense. A coach friend of mine said, "If he didn't have a personality disorder, you wouldn't put up with his behaviour."

So true.