Seperation/Custody

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hello All,

I have recently separated from my BPD wife.  She has her own place but has not signed the separation agreement yet.  She has been diagnosed with a "severe" case of BPD, anxiety, depression and possible ADHD and god knows what else.   At this point we seem to be doing things pretty calmly and nicely.  However, knowing her as well as I do I know that this can change in an instant.  In terms of custody of the kids we currently have 50/50 (this may change in the future if she can not get herself in a better place).   In the parenting custody agreement is there anything I should be looking out for in order to ensure there is no future drama with her? 

Thanks,

[WalkingonEggshel]

Hello All,

I have recently separated from my BPD wife.  She has her own place but has not signed the separation agreement yet.  She has been diagnosed with a "severe" case of BPD, anxiety, depression and possible ADHD and god knows what else.   At this point we seem to be doing things pretty calmly and nicely.  However, knowing her as well as I do I know that this can change in an instant.  In terms of custody of the kids we currently have 50/50 (this may change in the future if she can not get herself in a better place).   In the parenting custody agreement is there anything I should be looking out for in order to ensure there is no future drama with her? 

Thanks,

[formflier]

Good on you for asking about the custody agreement. 

Step back for a minute and look at the draft you have.  What are the assumptions?

What happens if it is not followed?

How do "switches" occur?

Schools?

Counseling mandatory?

I could go on.

1.  Leave no assumption not written down.

2.  If things in there matter to you, make sure there are automatic consequences for things like "missing" a drop off or "oops...got them back to you two days late"...etc etc.


My list is just a start..I'm sure others will be along soon with more.

Best,

FF

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi WalkingonEggshel, 

I agree with Formflier that it's good you're thinking ahead and asking questions.  Another thought I had is who will make decisions on such things as after school activities or extra curricular things, plus doctor's visits. Sometimes whoever is stronger in those areas makes the decisions, but it's good to think about that too.

Hang on and strap yourself in for the roller coaster ride. Take care of yourself.

 
Wools

[ForeverDad]

While 50/50 at first glance sounds fair — and it may be the best you can get at first — the problem with 50/50 is that it in itself doesn't resolve conflicts when the parents disagree.  Usually court (or the agreement) lists who will be in charge of which issues, whether as Decision Maker or Tie Breaker.  You as the stable parent needs to be in charge of the major topics such as school and counseling.  Other custodial issues may be religious education, medical, dental, etc.  Otherwise you'll end up before a mediator or judge, often months after the issue first comes up.

[Turkish]

I'm not sure how your support order will go, but part of my non cash support is to provide our kids medical and dental. That is, my costs at the time were subtracted from cash support. That doesn't mean that I control things, but it makes it easier. A few years ago, she didn't want the kids to get flu shots because she read some websites. I took them anyway on my time. Better to ask for forgiveness than permission. Her objection wasn't on religious grounds.

As for school, she talked at the time of putting them in a better district, yet she moved to a worse one initially, then to a better one. I did the paper and leg work to enroll the kids while she hemmed and hawed. Harder to transfer kids for no real reason once enrolled. She was still talking about it the second year or son was at the school, into 1st grade. I also told the principal and his teacher at the time that mommy wanted to change schools. They don't want to lose students. I said nothing about BPD or similar. Mommy had already profiled herself by threatening another parent with a lawyer when that parent's son bullied ours in kindergarten. We were called into the principal's office... oops.

So in a way, I'm the "home parent" as far as school goes. Logistically, it works as I'm between her home and work.

That all said, you might want to see if you can get that decision making status as FD says

[kells76]

To add to the great points from members above...

Sometimes pwBPD will give you the better outcome, if they feel like they're winning/beating you, and you haven't "shown your cards" about what you really want.

One member's husband was able to get medical, educational, and dental decision maker/tie breaker, via "giving" his ex vision, religious, and gynecological decision making (or something like that). She felt like she was "even" with him (as they each got 3 areas of tie breaker) but he got the mission-critical ones (for his situation).

If things go to mediation/negotiation, consider coming up with a list of "trades" beforehand, in order to get decision maker roles where it really counts. I would put educational at the top of any list, then medical, though again, each situation is different. Don't be too eager to trade/swap/make it "even". Ask for more than your bottom line, and be "grudging" about relenting anywhere, even if it'll still end up in your favor.

Remember, pwBPD don't play fair. There is no win-win to a pwBPD. They would rather have you and them both lose, than you win and they lose. Everything is a competition to see who is right, who is wrong, who is on top, who is below. It is sad that they have such broken psychological needs, yet that seems to be how many pwBPD operate, especially in a high-stakes situation.

You know your pwBPD the best; consider also whether she'd feel like she "won" if she got some major holidays in the plan... in exchange for you getting decision maker/tie breaker. In my husband's non-standard parenting plan, Mom gets Christmas Day every year (with times defined, i.e. it doesn't just say "Christmas Day", it defines at what hours of the day it starts and ends)... but we get Christmas Eve every year. We have made our own traditions and often do Christmas super early (like 2 weeks early) so more family can join. The kids love it and aren't burned out on Christmas. So keep that in the back of your mind... what non-traditional moves can you make, in order to get something long-term worthwhile. Again, don't volunteer right off the bat "hey you can have Christmas every year". Make it worth something.

...

You're right to note that while things seem OK now, she can change in the blink of an eye. Get as much documented and "status quo" in your favor as you can. If she is moving out, she may be less interested in parenting and more interested in finding a new romantic relationship. If that's the case, and she gives the kids to you more and more, document that to solidify that you need more than 50/50, that it's the status quo. Sad but true, don't try to convince her to spend more time with the kids. If she's disordered enough to spend less time with them and more with a date, then she may be communicating, in a way, the amount of parenting time she is capable of handling. Don't try to make her take the kids "for her fair share". Any time she sends them to you on her time, take the kids, no argument, and document it.

This is sometimes a window that is open only very briefly. Take advantage of it if it happens for you. Sadly, and painfully, in our case, DH's ex did consider leaving and letting him have the kids, but once she got a new romantic interest with uNPD (DH's former best friend), the dynamic changed dramatically, and they teamed up to paint DH black and manipulate the kids to "choosing them". Please, if she does say anything like "you can have the kids", get it documented and follow through.

...

Hope there's some helpful food for thought there;

kells76

[ForeverDad]

If... she gives the kids to you more and more, document that to solidify that you need more than 50/50, that it's the status quo. Sad but true, don't try to convince her to spend more time with the kids. If she's disordered enough to spend less time with them and more with a date, then she may be communicating, in a way, the amount of parenting time she is capable of handling. Don't try to make her take the kids "for her fair share". Any time she sends them to you on her time, take the kids, no argument, and document it.

A couple years ago (more or less) we had a newer member here ask, "How can I make my ex take the kids when the schedule says?"  I think he wanted some time to himself.  To myself of course, I remarked, "Are you kidding?  Keep them!  You're the more stable parent, the kids will do better with you!"  (My posted response was a bit calmer than that or else my fingers might have gotten smacked through my computer by the moderators. )

[formflier]

This is sometimes a window that is open only very briefly. 

If she is moving out why not start your offer out with I'll handle kids until you get settled..that will make it easier for you and we can modify later as you get settled.

As in you get documented control of the children and even when you can send kids over, don't offer to change the documents.

Perhaps put in there that you are the tie breaker but word the language such that "no decision will be made without "consulting" or "informing" Mom...let the tie breaker thing be a minimal part of it...even though we know it is a big deal.

Best,

FF