The "Perfect" BPD Family

[mitten]

What is the "perfect" BPD family?  In a "normal" family situation, the global consensus is typically 2 children.  And if you're really a "perfect" family you get one boy and one girl. 

Being in a romantic relationship with a person with BPD traits obviously has its own challenges and creates a whole different dynamic.  I currently have 2 boys with my high functioning uBPD spouse and the topic of a 3rd child is coming up as a daily subject. 

I'm curious to hear from those who have kids, rather they think more kids is better or just makes these unbearably more complex?  Does it make life more meaningful and help distract from the chaotic relationship with the BPD spouse?  Or is 2 children ideal so that they have have more 1:1 attention from me.   

This is my situation:
Married to a high functioning uBPD spouse (no self harming or abusing of substances)
We're financially secure and both work
2 young boys already
My wife is a great parent, her only fault is lack of boundaries and spoiling the boys
I'm planning to remain married
Part of me doesn't feel like the family is complete with 2 kids.  But the other part of me wonders if having 3 is wise with a uBPD spouse.

I realize this is a tricky question, so just looking for general thoughts, discussion and wisdom!

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[mitten]

Is there a BPD genetic component I should be considering before bringing more children into this world?

[Jabiru]

I think it's a personal decision that only you can make. My uBPD wife and I have postponed having children and may not have any because we're content as we are. Basically, I think you make your own "perfect".

[thankful person]

Hi my wife and I are married lesbians, we have two young children and she is the birth mother because she is fifteen years younger than me so it made sense. My wife loves being a mother and she is good at it, but I fear her jealousy of me in particular will become hard for the children in the future. For example her making it perfectly clear that I am never allowed to teach our children to play the piano, even though I am a piano teacher. I am also not allowed to play for pleasure because she is jealous of me. I would never push it on my children anyway but fear what will happen if they ever ask it of me. Anyway, pregnancy and breastfeeding have certainly been very hard on our family with my wife’s behaviour and jealousy and controlling demands being at its worst. However we underwent ivf and we have two more frozen embryos which we are going to give a chance at life. I guess we both see these as our children and our family. Despite everything I am hoping for a better future especially learning from the wonderful people here.

[Cat Familiar]

Is there a BPD genetic component I should be considering before bringing more children into this world?

Yes. I don’t know if it’s been specifically identified on the genome, but there is a spirited debate about personality disorders as a function of nature vs. nurture.

Many members here with a BPD spouse have reported seeing possible traits in their children.

[Cat Familiar]

https://www.apa.org/topics/personality-disorders/causes

[Cat Familiar]

All ten personality disorders are modestly to moderately  inheritable.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3181941/

[mitten]

I think it's a personal decision that only you can make. My uBPD wife and I have postponed having children and may not have any because we're content as we are. Basically, I think you make your own "perfect".

Yeah, I understand what you're saying.  Do you think you would have made the same choice if you didn't have a uBPD wife? 

[mitten]

Anyway, pregnancy and breastfeeding have certainly been very hard on our family with my wife’s behaviour and jealousy and controlling demands being at its worst. However we underwent ivf and we have two more frozen embryos which we are going to give a chance at life. I guess we both see these as our children and our family. Despite everything I am hoping for a better future especially learning from the wonderful people here.

Pregnancy and the infant/toddler stage is so hard... I feel your pain.  It seems that you are finding a lot of meaning in your children, however.  Which is the same reason I'm wondering if I want one more. 

I even think out about 20 years, when my oldest one is an adult perhaps he marries and the family is extended.  This could create more joy and meaning and distract from the chaos of marriage to a uBPDw.  Maybe this is selfish of me?  Sometimes I flash forward to that time and wonder how I will survive being an empty nester...But who really knows!  It's impossible to know what life brings. 

[wish_list]

Having children aggravates the BPD situation. They now involve the children in their petty mind games and also they subject their children to their temper tantrums, make them feel worthless and seriously beat upon their confidence. I am thankful my older one made it out of the house and is in college now and my second one is bearing the brunt of his worsening depression and BPD. Trying to protect her as much as I can..

[mitten]

Having children aggravates the BPD situation. They now involve the children in their petty mind games and also they subject their children to their temper tantrums, make them feel worthless and seriously beat upon their confidence. .

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of.  Fortunately, my uBPDw is currently a great mom to our newborn and 3 year old.  She struggles with boundary setting and spoiling the heck out of them, but that's about all at this point.  We started our family before I realized what BPD was...

[Cat Familiar]

Typically BPD mothers can be attentive and supportive when children are very young. It’s when children begin to individuate that problems occur. Thinking for themselves and not obediently following along creates major conflict with a BPD mother. And things typically get worse in teen years.

[mitten]

And things typically get worse in teen years.

So 3 may possibly be a bad idea...

[Hope4Joy]

I was just listening to Stop Caretaking the Borderline (Hoopla app through my library) and stopped the book as it was just talking about the phase of bargaining that I suspect many newer members here may be in. It mentioned having kids, getting a new job, new home, etc as a bargain in place of making the big changes that are actually needed. Mind blown.

We have one young child and no plans for more. I can only imagine having another making things so much worse. That being said if he said he wanted another I would have a hard time trying to put the brakes on logically.

I totally get what you are saying about being nervous about empty nesting one day too. The kiddo can be a good buffer from terrible behavior and help create distance with their own constant attention needs and such. We have a good while before they are grown to learn how to manage things…right?

[mitten]

I was just listening to Stop Caretaking the Borderline (Hoopla app through my library) and stopped the book as it was just talking about the phase of bargaining that I suspect many newer members here may be in. It mentioned having kids, getting a new job, new home, etc as a bargain in place of making the big changes that are actually needed. Mind blown.

Such a great book and that section resonated with me when I read it (listened to it on tape) too.  Before I knew what BPD was... it was one thing after another my uBPDw was chasing.  First thing was marriage, then it was a house, minute we bought the house she was looking for a bigger house, then it was a kid, then another kid, now maybe another kid.

The kids are an awesome buffer, selfishly.  Oh, mom needs some time to cool off... let's go to the playground.

[once removed]

i think the most important question here is how the two of you are as a team when it comes to parenting.

if you are asking if there is some risk in having another child, that the child would develop bpd, the answer is yes. how much risk, no one can say.

in every family, there are risks. a future child could inherit some sort of struggle that your wife doesnt even have, but a relative of yours, or hers, might have.

is there relative harmony in the household? is there relative harmony and team spirit when it comes to how the two of you raise children? do you know how she feels about the possibility of another kid?

[mitten]

is there relative harmony in the household? is there relative harmony and team spirit when it comes to how the two of you raise children? do you know how she feels about the possibility of another kid?

My uBPDw is high functioning, but of course it's still hard.  There is lots of walking on eggshells and me needing to be around all the time for her to be comfortable.  I'm trying to work on myself to make that better.  I need to gain confidence and not be so scared of conflict.  I think if I can improve this area of myself things could get better. 

I know she wants a 3rd kid as she is already talking about it.  I'm not sure our family feels complete yet with 2.  I'm not sure if I ever know, and that's also the point she is trying to make.  If we didn't have a 3rd would we always regret it... who knows...

[thankful person]

Mitten I haven’t any answers for you,  just wanted to share with you something I personally found out about “conflict” yesterday on my daughters 2nd birthday. I haven’t only just started to read “stop caretaking” but I am gaining more confidence to just be ok with my decisions to do “normal” things, even when attacked. My wife had far too much planned for the day, including taking the babies swimming at the hotel where we got married, which would have to be between 10-12, and the two year old still has nap time etc. I knew it wouldn’t work. But didn’t say anything of course. In the morning I video called my mum while dd opened some presents. And my wife said afterwards, “you’ve spent too long on the phone and now we can’t go swimming, the day is ruined…” So, when they say, “don’t jade…” I decided to say absolutely nothing… And somehow my wife got over the fact that the day was ruined and we went on to have a really good day. I am starting to learn some things. Like I always thought I was good with words. But with her… maybe it’s better if I learn to shut up. I say this because I know how it would have gone, had I chose to jade the video call. And the day would probably have been ruined.

[mitten]

So, when they say, “don’t jade…” I decided to say absolutely nothing… And somehow my wife got over the fact that the day was ruined and we went on to have a really good day. I am starting to learn some things. Like I always thought I was good with words. But with her… maybe it’s better if I learn to shut up. I say this because I know how it would have gone, had I chose to jade the video call. And the day would probably have been ruined.

This is really good insight.  I used to work so hard to try to convince my uBPDw that things were okay when she was having an episode, and we'd go in circles for hours... escalating things rather than deescalating things (usually late into the night).  Ever since I was able to tie her behavior to BPD traits it's been incredibly powerful, because it gives me permission to just stop talking and know that it's her, not me. 

Most recently I've learned that when she is criticizing me for something I have done, I will say, okay, I'm done discussing it.  Surprisingly that usually shuts her up!  Who would have thought it could be so easy? haha. 

[once removed]

Ever since I was able to tie her behavior to BPD traits it's been incredibly powerful, because it gives me permission to just stop talking and know that it's her, not me.

Most recently I've learned that when she is criticizing me for something I have done, I will say, okay, I'm done discussing it.  Surprisingly that usually shuts her up!  Who would have thought it could be so easy? haha. 

what sort of criticism are we talking about?

[mitten]

what sort of criticism are we talking about?

Just nit picky things- like I ran the laundry through the machine but put it on the couch and didn't fold it because I had to go to work.  Or I didn't empty the dishwasher because I planned to do it after work.  Or I didn't give our kids daycare the super special & specific EXACT directions about feeding our kids...maybe missing a tiny special detail. 

[Notwendy]

You say you have a newborn?

At this point, it seems that you don't have to decide right now. There are plenty of birth control methods that are not permanent, and if you are still thinking about it, I suggest you use one you have control over. As the baby gets older, you can revisit the idea if you wish.

I don't think there's a "perfect" number or  "perfect" family. It's a personal decision that each couple makes.

As to the genetics, while that is a  concern- the risks have been cited as higher, having a child who does not have BPD is possible. Being raised by a disordered parent has some risks as well. I found this article interesting however, it takes someone with BPD to actually admit they have it and seek help- but that isn't always the case.

https://www.verywellmind.com/i-have-bpd-does-this-mean-my-kids-will-get-bpd-too-425161


On the other hand, some families where an individual has BPD can only handle what they can do. But this is an individual decision.


From my own experience, I don't think it's necessary to make such a huge decision immediately if you have a newborn. That stage is physically and emotionally taxing. You can let things settle and see how it goes as the baby gets older.

[mitten]

You say you have a newborn?

Thank you Notwendy for reminding me to take time to decide.  Well technically my newborn just turned 9 months so the clock is ticking and my uBPD spouse is already trying to plant the seed...  She wants their ages pretty close together so they can play together... blah blah. 

[mitten]

I don't think there's a "perfect" number or  "perfect" family. It's a personal decision that each couple makes.

Hi Notwendy, I've been considering the size of a family from a parent perspective, and what we as parents can handle in our BPD family dynamic.  I started to wonder what it would be like from the child's perspective and wanted to get your take since your mother has BPD.  How many siblings do you have?  Did you feel like they helped support you and buffer you from your mother? 

[mitten]

Well the subject of a third child has come up again... with my uBPDw saying this morning... "You know if we get pregnant in October we'll have the baby the following summer and we can enjoy time off together...

Anyway, I'd like to make the decision independently of my wife, since we all know people with BPD aren't capable of making responsible decisions and before long she'll be pressuring me...  So I'm trying to formulate my own point of view before committing to another child.  2 children is obviously less expensive and less risky, but I'm just not sure I feel like our family is complete with 2.  Also, I'm realizing (selfishly) that children are a nice buffer to my wife... 

I realize that no one here can tell me how many children I should have... but any thoughts on ways to make the decision independently of my uBPDw? 

[bugwaterguy]

Having children is a very tough decision.

I am married 25 years with a 10 year old and a 17 year old.  My wife is looking for divorce.  I want to stay married, and I am making changes of my behaviors.  I cannot control her decisions.

No one likes to think about this - but if your wife decides to leave - how will that divorce affect your kids?  How would you feel about raising them as a single father?  How will 3 kids be different from 2?  

I know things got significantly worse with my wife after the second child.

I have another tough question for you.  Why do you think your family is incomplete with two kids?  You might need some serious self-examination about that question.  Are you subconsciously looking for the kid to fill in the hole that is missing because of your wife's BPD?

[mitten]

No one likes to think about this - but if your wife decides to leave - how will that divorce affect your kids?  How would you feel about raising them as a single father?  How will 3 kids be different from 2? 

Sorry to hear that your wife wants a divorce.  I've been following your story in the thread you started. 

We had our first child before I connected the dots to BPD.  Then we had another because at that point I was already fully committed to having kids and at least I figured our oldest would have company.  My uBPDw (high functioning) has actually been better since our 2nd child, although that may be in a large part of some of the boundaries I've put in place since I learned about BPD.  Also me not JADE'ing. 

I guess I tend to look at it this way... but is this right or wrong?  Being in a relationship with a BPD spouse is extremely difficult and can make your life really hard.  Does having children enrich your life and create meaning in the midst of all the chaos?  Also, does it give you someone to connect with when the uBPD isn't being pleasant.  I'm probably just being selfish...

*Disclaimer- I'm looking at this from a high functioning BPD standpoint.  If my wife were physically abusive, suicidal or addicted to alcohol/drugs, having more children would absolutely be a reckless decision. 

[bugwaterguy]

My uBPDw (high functioning) has actually been better since our 2nd child, although that may be in a large part of some of the boundaries I've put in place since I learned about BPD.  Also me not JADE'ing. 

My gut tells me it has been your changes in behavior and learning about BPD that have made things better, not the child.  But I could be wrong

Does having children enrich your life and create meaning in the midst of all the chaos? 

Yes - having children enriches your life and creates meaning. 
And there are many other ways to enrich your life and create meaning. 
Volunteering, working to help the environment, helping those who are less fortunate, improving public policy, start/help a support group in your area for family members with mental illness, helping at a religious institution (if that is your persuasion).

I guess I tend to look at it this way... but is this right or wrong?  Also, does it give you someone to connect with when the uBPD isn't being pleasant.  I'm probably just being selfish...

Putting it on your kid to give you connection when your wife is being difficult seems like an unhealthy mindset.  That is asking a great deal of your child.  It might be better to find an adult to commiserate with.  You could probably find someone on these boards who understands better.  (sorry if this is being too direct)

[Cat Familiar]

Simply put, more children = more stress. More stress for a BPD spouse = more dysfunctional behavior. BPD mothers are better with young children and often tend to be in conflict with adolescents and teenagers, especially if they are girls.

[Couscous]

Do you have a big, involved, supportive family who can basically stand in for your wife? As a daughter of a BPD mother I can tell you that I would never dream of having a third child and am barely keeping my head above water with two, and feel like I am failing them every day.

Two emotionally healthy parents can barely meet the emotional needs of two children on their own, much less a family containing a mother with BPD. You will also be increasing the odds of having a child develop BPD. My mother had 8 children, three of whom have developed BPD and one has BPD traits, and we all have Complex PTSD.