Risky Drinking Behavior

[ThanksForPlaying]

Today pwBPD went out to run errands... dropped 2mo baby off at my mom's as planned for 2 hours... came back to pick up baby... drunk... took a "nap" on the couch for 2 hours at my mom's house. Then returned home with the baby slurring words and smelling like alcohol, which I noticed immediately. This is not the first time this has happened. Happened frequently through pregnancy. Lots of secretive drinking. She hides whiskey bottles and beer cans in her dresser drawer.  Says she likes the thrill of drinking secretively.

In the ensuing discussion, we looped through every BPD excuse in the book. At first she just had "one glass of wine"... then said she drank wine in the car after she got home before coming inside. Then said she had ACTUALLY had a margarita at lunch. She smelled strongly of alcohol... I used to drink a LOT so I know how it works... She had at least 4 or 5 drinks - clearly above the legal driving limit.

Of course she says she "slept it off" by taking the two hour nap (irrelevant). The correct amount of alcohol for driving with a baby is none in my opinion. She was also 2 hours late coming home because of the nap - says it's my fault because she doesn't want to be around me, and that if I wasn't so critical of her drinking, she wouldn't be afraid to come home (I am really quite calm with the whole thing - been dealing with it for years). That's the BPD argument that "I do destructive things because of the way you make me feel".

For a brief few minutes, she expresses guilt and tells me about the additional drinking (so we're now up to 2.5 alcoholic drinks by admission). Then she tries the anger route - ratchets up the pressure telling me she'll never let me "take her baby" away. Then she starts getting aggressive with me, telling me to "sit the f*** down or else" (I'm just calmly standing - she's trying to assert dominance and says "I'll show you who's in charge"). I try to leave the room and she pushes me and blocks my path. I nudge around her and continue to walk away - she doesn't like it - wants me to fight with her but I don't.

This whole thing was remarkably a calm disagreement compared to her usual rages. By the end, I'm feeling like she really hasn't done anything wrong - adults are allowed to drink so what's the big deal?

I have to remind myself that the actions and results are the problem, not whether or not she had a few drinks. She came home late, lied about where she'd been, and was drunk in the middle of the afternoon on a weekday when other things needed to be done. All of these things are not a big deal by themselves - and that's how she gaslights me into thinking nothing has even happened.

The other thing is that she could have simply asked me to watch the baby while she went out drinking - but I honestly think she prefers to lie and do something spontaneous and unplanned. She prefers to announce the quick errands she'll be running, and then get drunk quickly instead. It's pathological - and somewhere mixed with the alcoholism is the BPD.

[BigOof]

Alcohol and pwBPD? I remember shuddering at the thought of my ex after one glass of wine. Walking on eggshells doesn't describe what I went through. It was more like damage control while I paid for the damage to be done and had to clean up whatever damage I couldn't stop.

I feel you, ThanksForPlaying.

[ThanksForPlaying]

So much damage control. In many cases it's truly just one or two drinks and I KNOW it's not enough alcohol to explain ALL of the craziness. It's like it opens the BPD pathways and amplifies the disordered feelings.

I often fall into this trap:
- drinking and BPD rage happens
- I suggest less drinking might help
- pwBPD says "I wasn't even drunk - I only had one drink"
- I have to agree with that

I have to remember to stay focused on the events that broke the boundary. The RAGE is unacceptable - that's my boundary. It doesn't matter what the details are of how many drinks, or whether you were drunk, or when exactly you had a drink, or whether you lied about it or told the truth - these are details.

pwBPD tries to get me bogged down in these details and I forget the bigger picture.

[ForeverDad]

What if the police stopped her on the way from your mother's home to your home?

DWI, referral to CPS for endangering the life of a baby?

I'm thinking of the safety aspect.  Incidents like this shouldn't be hidden.  Consequences.  Problem is, police would probably need to be quietly alerted, little can be done after she's home.  Something to ponder.

[ortac77]

Hi


Alcohol and BPD are a toxic mix for sure. Totally different circumstances but your post echoes my own experience. I can generally handle the 'day to day' emotional dysregulation but as soon as my pwBPD starts drinking that is a different ballgame.

Its the lies "I haven't had a drink" - despite the clear evidence, slurring, reeking of booze etc.

Its the blame "I have to drink because of the way you make me feel" - despite the fact that I have said/done nothing unusual at all.

I learnt a long time ago that talking to somebody who is drunk is pretty pointless. After the event you get the guilt trip/anger all rolled into one - coupled sometimes with "It won't happen again."

At the end of the day an adult may chose to drink, alcohol addiction is sadly common and I can see that for somebody with BPD it seems an attractive way of 'dulling feelings' - of course it creates a whole heap of other problems, is self destructive and can have serious consequences. Not least for the 'others' in the relationship who will find it disturbing and frightening or worse the consequences may result in injury or even death.

[Notwendy]

Sure, adults are allowed to drink if they want, but it's a danger to themselves and others if they drive drunk and the baby is in the hands of a drunken caregiver.

You can't control her drinking but you can choose to have the baby in a safer situation- day care? Your mothers house?

She can make her own choices, but since she's drinking this much, and driving with the baby- safety for the baby and others on the road is a serious concern.

[ThanksForPlaying]

DWI, referral to CPS for endangering the life of a baby?

ForeverDad and Notwendy - I agree it's dangerous.

In this case, I get roped into the argument over whether or not it was really an illegal level of alcohol.  Was it over the legal limit, or under?  We argue over exactly how many drinks it was and whether it was dangerous or not.  So then I say ZERO is my boundary, which is a clearer boundary to set.  But I don't truly believe that zero is the right number - I think it's occasionally ok to have one drink and drive home (I know many disagree with me on this).  This "soft" boundary is how I would like to live my own life - but she uses it as a loophole for busting through the boundary herself.  If one drink is ok, then what about 5 or 6 (and lie and just say it's one).  And unfortunately, until she is arrested for DWI, this is a pointless argument.

It also takes the focus away from the boundary I'm REALLY trying to set.  I really don't care whether she's had any specific number of drinks, or what her blood alcohol level is.  I'm not trying to get into legal semantics.  What I WANT is to be in a relationship with someone where I don't have to be concerned with that question.  Someone who gets drunk and goes to bed without raging.  Someone who can occasionally have a few drinks and be an enjoyable person.

[ThanksForPlaying]

Its the lies "I haven't had a drink" - despite the clear evidence, slurring, reeking of booze etc.

Its the blame "I have to drink because of the way you make me feel" - despite the fact that I have said/done nothing unusual at all.

Thanks Ortac - this is exactly what I'm going through.

As an example of walking on eggshells - I used to drink quite frequently socially.  Over the past several years, I've curtailed my drinking quite a bit (probably a good thing).  But I've done it BECAUSE of trying to walk on eggshells.  Originally, when we went out socially and had drinks together, I started to try to cut myself off, because she would always order "one more round" even after she was too drunk.  So I started to drink less, hoping it would pull her back with me, but it just created more tension - "Why won't you have another drink with me?" - leading to rages.

Now when we're together, I don't drink at all while she does - because I know I can't be intoxicated when the eventual rage happens.  I can't be drunk when the police are called, or I'll probably go to jail.  So I don't drink.

If I go out drinking with friends, she will often use that as an excuse post-facto, AFTER she's come home drunk unexpectedly.  "Well YOU went out last week so I went out today!"  Of course sometimes she uses the same event multiple times - my one day of drinking with friends becomes the excuse she uses for the next two weeks of drinking herself silly.  So again, I often DON'T drink around my friends anymore because I know she'll use it against me.  And sometimes she STILL uses it - "How do I KNOW you didn't drink with your friends?"

So my point is that I've cut back my drinking to nearly zero in an attempt to get her to stop drinking and raging - and it's had zero effect on the BPD traits (although it's healthier for me, so there's that).

[maxsterling]

There was a reason my W stopped drinking over 15 years ago, I didn't know her then but my understanding is that she was pretty self-destructive.  She has got a more recent dependence on (medical) Marijuana.  The good with that is it slows her down and makes her sleep.  The bad is that it makes it nearly impossible to have a productive conversation with her.  She is forgetful, her words and ideas don't make sense.  She technically is using it for pain, but the reality is she uses it for anxiety and to "escape".  I think it makes it much harder for her to cope when not using.  She now will occasionally have a drink, but only once or twice was it much of an issue.  She doesn't really like alcohol, though.

I had an ex that was more in the NPD category.  She was one of those people that could have a drink or two and be okay, but at some point a switch would flip and her personality would completely flip to the point she was very scary, rageful, vindictive, paranoid, etc.  She would often get stoned at the same time, and combined I would be left with a woman who would try to climb out of moving cars because she was too hot, think others are trying to kidnap her son, go on and on about the most bizarre conspiracy theories, etc.  And the next day it would be like nothing happened.

[Notwendy]

So my point is that I've cut back my drinking to nearly zero in an attempt to get her to stop drinking and raging - and it's had zero effect on the BPD traits (although it's healthier for me, so there's that).

This is kind of like stopping eating so that the other person will lose weight. The pounds will come off you, not them.

The lying, the arguing- this is all typical of people addicted to alcohol- denial. Thinking they don't have a problem. She does have a problem with it. Denial and projection are also part of BPD.

I can see how your stopping the social drinking together results in less opportunities to social drink- but she's still drinking- just in different settings and sneaking it too- so it hasn't stopped her drinking.

Just like not eating goodies in front of a person who is trying to lose weight is a good idea in terms of reducing temptation for them, but they can still get high calorie foods and eat them if they choose to.

They have to choose to reduce their own calories if they want to lose weight. Likewise, they need to choose themselves to stop drinking and reach out for help to do so ( professionals, AA).

Is drinking itself bad? No, neither is the occasional sweet treat for most people. But addiction is different. It doesn't need to be physical addiction. It can be emotional addiction. For a person with BPD it's a form of dealing with uncomfortable feelings. It helps them to escape the feelings- using something- alcohol, drugs, food, or other activity/substance- to escape feelings underlies addictions. A person who isn't using alcohol like this can have a couple of beers with friends, but it's different for an addict.

Having spent time in ACA 12 step groups  ( mother with BPD). I really recommend them to anyone dealing with this kind of pattern- Coda, Alanon,. It's not going to stop them from drinking. It helps you understand the dynamics and the behaviors and stop the enabling or drama between you. It helps you to understand why you trying to control their drinking or arguing about it isn't likely to be effective.

You say you feel OK with a few drinks and driving ( even if it is not legal) but this may not apply to your wife. Alcohol affects everyone differently- size, food intake, metabolism make this different. Maybe an average size man can have a couple beers with dinner and stay sober, but if your wife is a smaller person, this may not be the case. For your wife, she's drinking for the effects- so she's drinking enough to get smashed- to have enough alcohol in her system to feel smashed- whatever amount that may be- if she drinks to that point -this makes driving dangerous.