Rant about the approach to relationships

[hands down]

Okay, just looking to air out some feelings.

So… I don’t find myself codependent, but I am highly empathic and committed to self care and care of others, with boundaries etc.

That said, I went on a vision quest on how to improve my relational interactions, boundaries and foster a healthy couples dynamic after a brief stint with a BPD a few years ago.  The result?

So here’s where I’m left a bit bummed.  In the last BPD relationship it got chaotic as I allowed myself to be pulled in emotional tugs and conflict, the result was a very passionate but dysfunctional relationship.

Fast forward to my most recent ex… fiancé…. I saw signs of the relationship getting “heavy” and taking a turn. While she had informed me of some very traumatic events by her birth father, I was also convinced by her that she had been in therapy for about 10 years.  While I was expecting to navigate heavy, I didn’t expect she was yet another BPD, and didn’t really show signs of it (to my awareness) until….

 one night she didn’t come home from helping her sister move, the next day my gut knew she was done, Flowers were a love language of hers so… of course, I brought flowers when I came home to meet her and said “I know you need to leave and I wanted to give you the same “me” I gave you in the way in.”  We talked as she cried and said she could “no longer do this with me “That lasted about 4-5 hours with her vacillating, asking out loud, IDK if I’m making the wrong decision etc.  hugs, kisses. And holding each other. At a point I finally had to go as it was just dragging on, so I went and showered and left to her asking me “are you going on a hot date?”   That was the last time I saw the person I knew to be my fiancé.

The next morning I spent a PLEASE READ ton on flowers and had them delivered to her parents where she had stayed…. She was set to come back home to begin moving things out…. Let’s just say this…. The moment arrived, I said to myself (just by her tone and  mannerisma..) I said. Sh** you found another borderline. Needless to say the discard and all the things started then..  from complete delirious. To the strangest “fake” accounts and strings back to me to get that little connection, texting friends and family that I will always be the love of her lifer etc


Fast forward to now…. Here’s my struggle. The first BPD, I had closure and cognitively could look at the dynamics of the relationship as - yah…. This wouldn’t have ever worked.

This time, it’s much more difficult to process. #1 because she’s still (albeit incognito) keeping in touch but #2 I don’t have that ball of fire that made me okay with things ending.

Not much else to say here but, the byproduct, at least I feel, for me holding boundaries, not flooding and keeping from triggers, made the exit THAT much harder to process. 

Anyone else make progress that feels like maybe it was better if you didn’t? At least you’d have the burnt ashes to let you know you were doomed? (Joking - kinda)

Thoughts ?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cat Familiar]

So you’d like a clear sign the strings were cut?

I’m wondering if you had a family member with a personality disorder? It seems that those of us who grew up in families like this tend to attract BPD partners.

[hands down]

No that wasn’t what I said - the dysfunctional cycle of the previous partner made it easy to mourn and move on.  Having one just disappear has more of a tug for me to glorify the relationship.

Lol…. You’re funny - I had a good childhood, but my mom was ADHD as f**k and I probably raised her and my brother more than she did.  I spent the early part of my 20s fairly codependent.

Believe it or not, one can be drawn to BPDs, especially high functioning ones…. Without trauma or personality disorders in their lineage. 

[fisher101]

So you’d like a clear sign the strings were cut?

I’m wondering if you had a family member with a personality disorder? It seems that those of us who grew up in families like this tend to attract BPD partners.

I agree. I'm an absolute magnet for these types. Even at work.

[hands down]

I agree. I'm an absolute magnet for these types. Even at work.

Don’t look it as a bad thing. BPD looks for empathy because it’s the only safe - and welcoming grounding-rod for such trauma.  The challenge is most of the only deeply empathetic people have core (or unresolved) damage.  <hence why the responder above, and likely we’ll intended… tend to assume you’re broken. Because usually most of the empathy driven people get there through pain>

BPD requires empathy to attach, where it goes from there depends on the path. 

[Cat Familiar]

Don’t look it as a bad thing. BPD looks for empathy because it’s the only safe - and welcoming grounding-rod for such trauma.  The challenge is most of the only deeply empathetic people have core (or unresolved) damage.  <hence why the responder above, and likely we’ll intended… tend to assume you’re broken. Because usually most of the empathy driven people get there through pain>

BPD requires empathy to attach, where it goes from there depends on the path. 

You needn’t be *broken* if you grew up in a family with BPD. It’s more like you are able to be accepting and compassionate of people who behave in atypical ways, and have the ability to see the beauty in spite of the disorder.

[fisher101]

Don’t look it as a bad thing. BPD looks for empathy because it’s the only safe - and welcoming grounding-rod for such trauma.  The challenge is most of the only deeply empathetic people have core (or unresolved) damage.  <hence why the responder above, and likely we’ll intended… tend to assume you’re broken. Because usually most of the empathy driven people get there through pain>

BPD requires empathy to attach, where it goes from there depends on the path. 

Might be a good point. More than empathy, I'm motivated by "doing the right thing." I had a pretty vanilla family growing up. But it was always taught to me that doing the right thing was very important. So when I see someone in need I tend to respond.

The other side of that coin though is that once I get bitten once or twice in helping someone I tend to withdrawal totally from that person as I felt like I've been used.

[Notwendy]

just my 2cents here.

Someone doesn't need to have a traumatic childhood to become attracted to someone with BPD and- having a traumatic childhood doesn't mean someone inevitably has BPD. There is a higher chance that someone growing up with dysfunction will attract or be attracted to someone with BPD or might have BPD themselves but not necessarily.

Dysfunction can have many reasons and also there is overlap with many behaviors. BPD is also on a spectrum.

With a person with BPD there can be the push pull, the idealization and then the devaluation and a cycle of these things like you saw with relationship #1.

With relationship #2 it looks like a sudden cut off. You got to the point of engagement and then it was over for her. Then some strange drama. I am not so certain that this one has BPD. Something may be going on but it does seem different, it's hard to know exactly.

I think that in general, relationships don't always work out at the dating stage and that is why we date first, then marry- because marriage is a choice and at any point each person can decide to leave. Yes it's hurtful, but better to say it's not working before marriage than to marry anyway.

Sometimes there isn't closure- I think those are the hardest, because we want resolution with the other person but it doesn't always happen. Those, we need to make our own closure.

It's interesting that a match between two people is a boundary match. Someone can have poor boundaries without having BPD. The partners of people with BPD also can have poor boundaries.

Not much else to say here but, the byproduct, at least I feel, for me holding boundaries, not flooding and keeping from triggers, made the exit THAT much harder to process.

Maybe so, but it's also a success. By not doing these things, you may have continued in a drama cycle you did a lot of work to avoid. You may have continued to marriage without these boundaries.

How did you miss the signs? Sometimes it's hard to see them. Some people can present a good public persona. Sometimes the physical attraction is strong and this affects clarity.

Just because it didn't work out doesn't mean a failure on your part. It might mean your self work made you less of a comfortable match for disordered person.

[hands down]

just my 2cents here.

Someone doesn't need to have a traumatic childhood to become attracted to someone with BPD and- having a traumatic childhood doesn't mean someone inevitably has BPD. There is a higher chance that someone growing up with dysfunction will attract or be attracted to someone with BPD or might have BPD themselves but not necessarily.

Dysfunction can have many reasons and also there is overlap with many behaviors. BPD is also on a spectrum.

With a person with BPD there can be the push pull, the idealization and then the devaluation and a cycle of these things like you saw with relationship #1.

With relationship #2 it looks like a sudden cut off. You got to the point of engagement and then it was over for her. Then some strange drama. I am not so certain that this one has BPD. Something may be going on but it does seem different, it's hard to know exactly.

I think that in general, relationships don't always work out at the dating stage and that is why we date first, then marry- because marriage is a choice and at any point each person can decide to leave. Yes it's hurtful, but better to say it's not working before marriage than to marry anyway.

Sometimes there isn't closure- I think those are the hardest, because we want resolution with the other person but it doesn't always happen. Those, we need to make our own closure.

It's interesting that a match between two people is a boundary match. Someone can have poor boundaries without having BPD. The partners of people with BPD also can have poor boundaries.

Not much else to say here but, the byproduct, at least I feel, for me holding boundaries, not flooding and keeping from triggers, made the exit THAT much harder to process.

Maybe so, but it's also a success. By not doing these things, you may have continued in a drama cycle you did a lot of work to avoid. You may have continued to marriage without these boundaries.

How did you miss the signs? Sometimes it's hard to see them. Some people can present a good public persona. Sometimes the physical attraction is strong and this affects clarity.

Just because it didn't work out doesn't mean a failure on your part. It might mean your self work made you less of a comfortable match for disordered person.

VERY much appreciate your perspective.  I find that often we place a lot of focus on "why did I attract this" and little on "what did I do during" or "how did i handle the dynamics of a relationship".  I've come to the conclusion that hurt people are attracted to sensitive people, and most wBPD have deep hurts, and... that love bombing phase?  It's not as "fake" as one would believe, its just the state in which the attraction outweighs the "fears" and "triggers".  When that balance tips is where your "co-dependency" or bad connection tendencies can engulf you and your partner...

ALSO - your perspective about her not having BPD is something I think is very astute and why a lot of psychotherapists are veering away from blunt diagnosis... Just because someone demonstrates behaviors in a certain cluster may not indicate they are rigidly in that cluster. the more I process this, I believe you may be close to the truth with your guess.  While i know she had MASSIVE trauma as a child and spent an enormous amount of money and time on healing, there may just have been some fracture closer to PTSD that took on traits of BPD..

Who knows... at the end of the day i believe that, all relationships and circumstances exist and transpire in a way that allow us to understand ourselves better and can serve to enable us a better way to relate with the world around us - starting with the relationship with self

thank you again for a considered and insightful response.