Thinks I’m doing differently…

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi all,
So I’ve been a member on here for about a year now. Randomly it was Valentine’s Day 2021 that my mum texted that she was having such a bad day and a photo of our baby would really cheer her up… something my bpd wife had banned me was sending mum baby photos. So I secretly sent mum some photos… and I didn’t know it but the journey to improve my relationship had begun. I did it all the wrong way because I knew little about bpd at that point (although my wife was diagnosed before we met) and I hadn’t found the forum here… yet.
My wife said she was leaving me when I announced I was “disrespecting her wishes” with the baby photos… it took her several months to want to be in a relationship with me (she “forgave” me a few weeks before our second was born in May 2021).
Anyway… I know I digress. I started posting on here regularly and making better actual changes around 6 months ago. I have also found the books “stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist” and “raising resilient children with a borderline or narcissist” most useful. And my amazing friends on here have been so supportive and helpful.
So at FF’s suggestion, as things have improved so much, I wanted to share some thoughts on what I’m actually doing differently these days.
Firstly, validating my wife’s feelings… has helped tremendously. She flies into a panic over us having to answer some enquiries from our house buyers… In the old days, I would have said, “it’s fine, don’t worry about it, I’ll take care of it…” and she would get more upset and angry cos I’m implying she can’t cope (even though she just said she couldn’t cope). So I said, “I know it’s pretty daunting having to answer all these questions. Let’s look at it together.” Magic words somehow.
I was always being accused of “starting arguments”. Often this was her being negative and me being positive. “Tomorrow’s going to be a horrible day” she would say, and I’d say, “no it’s not”. I have stopped disagreeing with her over such things. Also, half our arguments were over her literally denying something happened. Like we’re looking after some other dogs as well as our own. I asked her the night before whether to feed our dog when I got up, she’s like, “no, after his walk.. no actually, I’ll sort him out..” Then this morning she had a go at me for not feeding him… I did - once - tell her “that’s not what you said”. But then I let it go rather than keep up the arguing over something I know to be fact but I can’t prove it.
I am doing things for myself. Things she didn’t want me doing, had “banned” me from doing. Example, “I don’t want you playing the piano. It’s unfair that you can do it and use it to calm down and relax, and I can’t do that…” I now play the piano whenever I want. She doesn’t question it. I take photos of our babies and send them to mum whenever I want, video call mum whenever I want. I shower when I want to, wear what I want to and pick the children’s outfits when I want to. My wife does not question these things that used to be so important to her to have control over. I just started doing these things and calmly standing up for myself without “arguing”. Yesterday evening was my favourite accomplishment. My daughter is unwell with a cold and much more cuddly than usual. She was sitting on my lap with her arms around my neck while watching tv. My wife came in and I held onto my little girl, feeling so close to her… You see, one of my wife’s issues was massive jealousy over my relationship with our eldest, stemming from her being away with our littlest in nicu and then bringing home a new baby. I am ashamed to say that in the past, if I was cuddling our child and heard my wife coming… I would quickly put her down so that my wife didn’t have to see how close we were.
Those are the main things I can think of, but I may add more thoughts and welcome others to do so as always. This little reflection over the past few days has also made me realise how I’m still working on things, like the other day I said to her, “is it ok if I have my breakfast and coffee while you get ready?” And I’ve started to realise that I am still asking my wife’s permission over silly little things, which is disrespecting myself. Most of the time I stop myself or rephrase it to something else, but sometimes I forget and remind myself to do better next time.

[thankful person]

Hi all,
So I’ve been a member on here for about a year now. Randomly it was Valentine’s Day 2021 that my mum texted that she was having such a bad day and a photo of our baby would really cheer her up… something my bpd wife had banned me was sending mum baby photos. So I secretly sent mum some photos… and I didn’t know it but the journey to improve my relationship had begun. I did it all the wrong way because I knew little about bpd at that point (although my wife was diagnosed before we met) and I hadn’t found the forum here… yet.
My wife said she was leaving me when I announced I was “disrespecting her wishes” with the baby photos… it took her several months to want to be in a relationship with me (she “forgave” me a few weeks before our second was born in May 2021).
Anyway… I know I digress. I started posting on here regularly and making better actual changes around 6 months ago. I have also found the books “stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist” and “raising resilient children with a borderline or narcissist” most useful. And my amazing friends on here have been so supportive and helpful.
So at FF’s suggestion, as things have improved so much, I wanted to share some thoughts on what I’m actually doing differently these days.
Firstly, validating my wife’s feelings… has helped tremendously. She flies into a panic over us having to answer some enquiries from our house buyers… In the old days, I would have said, “it’s fine, don’t worry about it, I’ll take care of it…” and she would get more upset and angry cos I’m implying she can’t cope (even though she just said she couldn’t cope). So I said, “I know it’s pretty daunting having to answer all these questions. Let’s look at it together.” Magic words somehow.
I was always being accused of “starting arguments”. Often this was her being negative and me being positive. “Tomorrow’s going to be a horrible day” she would say, and I’d say, “no it’s not”. I have stopped disagreeing with her over such things. Also, half our arguments were over her literally denying something happened. Like we’re looking after some other dogs as well as our own. I asked her the night before whether to feed our dog when I got up, she’s like, “no, after his walk.. no actually, I’ll sort him out..” Then this morning she had a go at me for not feeding him… I did - once - tell her “that’s not what you said”. But then I let it go rather than keep up the arguing over something I know to be fact but I can’t prove it.
I am doing things for myself. Things she didn’t want me doing, had “banned” me from doing. Example, “I don’t want you playing the piano. It’s unfair that you can do it and use it to calm down and relax, and I can’t do that…” I now play the piano whenever I want. She doesn’t question it. I take photos of our babies and send them to mum whenever I want, video call mum whenever I want. I shower when I want to, wear what I want to and pick the children’s outfits when I want to. My wife does not question these things that used to be so important to her to have control over. I just started doing these things and calmly standing up for myself without “arguing”. Yesterday evening was my favourite accomplishment. My daughter is unwell with a cold and much more cuddly than usual. She was sitting on my lap with her arms around my neck while watching tv. My wife came in and I held onto my little girl, feeling so close to her… You see, one of my wife’s issues was massive jealousy over my relationship with our eldest, stemming from her being away with our littlest in nicu and then bringing home a new baby. I am ashamed to say that in the past, if I was cuddling our child and heard my wife coming… I would quickly put her down so that my wife didn’t have to see how close we were.
Those are the main things I can think of, but I may add more thoughts and welcome others to do so as always. This little reflection over the past few days has also made me realise how I’m still working on things, like the other day I said to her, “is it ok if I have my breakfast and coffee while you get ready?” And I’ve started to realise that I am still asking my wife’s permission over silly little things, which is disrespecting myself. Most of the time I stop myself or rephrase it to something else, but sometimes I forget and remind myself to do better next time.

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[Cat Familiar]

That’s a lot to change in a very short period of time! Major kudos to you 

And things in your relationship have improved greatly. 

I’m very impressed that you have changed long-standing patterns, and so many of them.

Thanks for listing in detail the things that have improved in your relationship. I’m happy to hear you are playing the piano whenever you like.

[mitten]

I love that you're reflecting on the anniversary of when you first started making progress with BPD behavior.  I think this is so important to do!  Thanks for sharing your progress and for reminding us that it's a work in process. 

I remember talking to my therapist 4 months after learning about BPD... and asking him if I've made enough progress after a "long" 4 months.  I really don't remember what his response was, but I do remember being disappointed that I hadn't make super quick changes now that I had the knowledge of BPD.  Boy was I wrong!  It's a process and you have to give yourself time.   Let's keep celebrating the milestones!   

[thankful person]

Thanks Cat and Mitten for your encouragement. Yes it’s certainly a long process but great when you see improvement.

I’m happy to hear you are playing the piano whenever you like.

Cat, there is a funny story attached to this actually. We live in a semi-detached house and my wife has never got on with the neighbours (particularly their daughter who still lives with parents at age 40+). We had only had a digital piano since living here, which you can turn down or use headphones. We put down a deposit on a beautiful acoustic piano last year as we were moving to a detached house. Since the sale fell through we now have the piano here. The neighbours’ daughter complained via text - once - when I was playing, even though the day before her mum had texted asking what I was playing. I took it to be a compliment but my wife loved to see it as a complaint. Anyway, part of the reason my wife has been ok with me playing the piano is because she thinks the neighbours hate it. Hopefully we are moving to a different - detached - house soon! I will continue to enjoy playing the piano either way!

[T0M]

I just can't seem to help myself in these situations.
Although I know that I need to validate and so on, but it is just so UNFAIR.

yesterday, valentines day. I bought her a hart shaped box of chocolates, and she arranged us a dinner. We were exited throughout the day. I was saying how much I was looking forward to it, that I really liked her company. During this dinner I told her she was the most beautiful woman in the place. We talked and laughed. Basically it was a very good day.

We came home and decided to see one episode of our Netflix series, and would go to bed afterwards. She quickly fell asleep during the episode. It often happens, but I like it because I take it as a compliment of her feeling save around me.

The episode ended, and she woke up. I told her: 'Lets go to bed.' She agreed.

But than she said something I could not understand. I asked her what she was saying, but she answered: 'Nothing.' But I know her long enough to now that this was not a real "nothing" so something was wrong. But I chose to ignore it.

She was going to the toilet and I went up the stairs. I hear things falling (being thrown) on the floor. I go down the stairs to ask her what was wrong, but she says: 'I'm on the toilet.' I go up again, but when she enters the bed room, she starts to yell at me, that (apparently) it has been since forever, that I told her 'I love you'. That it was impossible for me to get these words over my lips. That I was just waiting to get away from her...

So I started: 'I'm sorry you feel like that, but that is not true.' But she kept raging. Than I said: 'It is very late, we need to wake up early, I do not want to get in an argument.' She than yelled, that I just wanted the easy way out, however she did put out  the light.

I was in the bed, in the dark, my hart was racing, and this feeling of unfairness, of her getting away with yet again something that was so deeply untrue and hurting for me, was just to much.

So after 10 minutes or so, I asked her if she in any way thought that she overreacted. She of course said she did not, and we ended up in a half hour argument in which I explained that I did love her. I asked her if she did not thought that other things that happened today were as important. I told her the box of chocolate had a tag on it saying 'For the one I love' but she said, that it was easy to buy something.

So I guess, I failed again.
I guess my feeling of rightfulness gets the best of me in these kind of situations.

[mitten]

I was in the bed, in the dark, my hart was racing, and this feeling of unfairness, of her getting away with yet again something that was so deeply untrue and hurting for me, was just to much.

It's so frustrating that we have to put up with this silly behavior at the flip of a switch.  I used to always have these late night arguments that go in circles and never end.    The saying "never go to be angry" is not something that applies to a couple with a BPD component...  You'll get better at not being triggered so much by this a the time goes by, but it will never entirely go away. 

Saying that's not true can be somewhat invalidating because that's what she feels and it's real to her.  Try saying it in a little softer way- I'm sorry you feel that I don't love you.  That must hurt.  I do love.  And then walk away as fast as you can otherwise it will keep going... haha. 

[AlwaysMean]

Congratulations on the steps forward in your world. 

It amazes me how our stories are so similar. Your story is nearly identical to mine. The inclusive bit is what my BPD BF has been campaigning for right from the start. I have too began to find a balance in how this is done. Still I am not sure if he trained/forced me to accept this term but as of recently I have learned to say, "I am doing this by myself because it need to it for me." He still doesn't like it when I get time alone but the agitated response only last a few minutes instead of hours or days.

Lets keep moving in the right direction.

[thankful person]

Tom, I’m so sorry you’re having a hard time of it. I have certainly been there. I don’t think I’m necessarily more patient or understanding, or doing these skills any better than you. What I think is that maybe bpd’s have some kind of initiation phase where they are extra extra difficult for.. how long? who knows? The first two years were certainly the most tumultuous in our relationship. I remember you saying you’ve been together about a year or so (?). Just a thought. I don’t really know why my wife is being so much easier to communicate with these days. I’m sure it’s not a coincidence that I started learning all this stuff and she is responding well. But she may not have responded so well back in the early days. I will never know. The “I love you” for example, used to be a massive issue for her. More recently she has done an about turn on it and sometimes says things like, “I love you doesn’t mean anything if you say it all the time…” For what it’s worth I think it’s very sweet that you bought her the chocolates… but then I’m just an appreciative person in general…

Always mean, good to hear from you. I remember we noted a few months ago how similarly controlling our partners were. I wondered how you have been getting on and I’m glad to hear he is responding well to the changes and that you are doing things for yourself more. Well done! I feel like my wife actually oddly gains some security when I assert that we don’t have to be the exact same person (I don’t actually say that I just show her!)

[T0M]

The “I love you” for example, used to be a massive issue for her. More recently she has done an about turn on it and sometimes says things like, “I love you doesn’t mean anything if you say it all the time…” For what it’s worth I think it’s very sweet that you bought her the chocolates… but then I’m just an appreciative person in general…

Broken Person, it is indeed a bit more than a year now.

To come back on the 'I love you,' incident. So yesterday I started thinking how I should approach this. Because I felt it was still sitting between us. So in the evening, I told her, I wanted to talk about what happened and started like this: 'Darling, I want to tell you all the reasons why I like you and why I love you.' And than I loaded her with compliments. You think it ended well?

NOO.

During the discussion that followed she tare apart all the reasons I told her I loved her. And she actually said to me: 'You still can't say that you love me.' I told her that that was literally the first thing I started my conversation with, but somehow saying it like I did, was not the same as saying 'I love you.' for her.

 

[thankful person]

Tom, I get it, it is totally stupid. That was a lovely idea to tell her all the reasons you love her. I always used to feel like, I wish I could tell EVERYONE we know what just went down and I know they’d all be on my side. Sometimes I would say this and she’d just be like, it’s not about what other people think. You probably feel like if you just come out and say, “I love you” then she’ll say you’re only saying it cos she wants you to. Maybe the others might have some advice if you start another thread. I’m afraid I don’t really know the answer. My wife has somehow become more reasonable and receptive recently for some reason though I know it may be temporary. I’ll surely come back and update if she starts being nasty again.

[T0M]

Tom, I get it, it is totally stupid. That was a lovely idea to tell her all the reasons you love her. I always used to feel like, I wish I could tell EVERYONE we know what just went down and I know they’d all be on my side. Sometimes I would say this and she’d just be like, it’s not about what other people think. You probably feel like if you just come out and say, “I love you” then she’ll say you’re only saying it cos she wants you to. Maybe the others might have some advice if you start another thread. I’m afraid I don’t really know the answer. My wife has somehow become more reasonable and receptive recently for some reason though I know it may be temporary. I’ll surely come back and update if she starts being nasty again.

You sure you are not dating my GF   
That is what she is saying now. That me saying 'I love you' will never be spontaneous anymore, and that I will only be saying it because I want to please her. So it is a situation in which we always loose.

[15years]

Tom, how about if you tell her: "I will only tell you I love you when I mean it and you will feel that I mean it". I don't know just an idea it might be used as ammunition back at you if she feel you don't mean it although you do.

[T0M]

Tom, how about if you tell her: "I will only tell you I love you when I mean it and you will feel that I mean it". I don't know just an idea it might be used as ammunition back at you if she feel you don't mean it although you do.

Worthwhile trying. I keep you posted on it.

[thankful person]

Hi Tom, I was going to say also, about the lose-lose situations... Another thing I have been working on is just being less bothered by my wife’s reactions or responses to anything I say or do. I know you’re struggling with that because I get from you that you feel the relationship is so unfair, why can’t she just grow up and be reasonable? And I totally understand that. I think being on here in particular and learning how others have coped… we do have to learn to just let stuff go… accept that she is not going to grow up or become reasonable and it’s, you have her as she is or not at all. I’ve found my wife says something critical and I acknowledge it, state something along the lines of, “that must be hard for you”, then state my case and then refuse to engage further over it. If possible I leave the situation for a while, and don’t bring it up later. It seems to work. If you want to say, “I love you” I’d pick a “good” moment (if you possibly can I know it’s hard). Whilst it’s tempting to try and avoid potentially ruining a good moment, it might be worth it. Good luck.

[thankful person]

In responding to another post I realised more things I’m doing differently: Back in the days when we used to socialise, pre-covid, I often used to step in to protect my wife from embarrassment and judgement, particularly when we were with my family. I so desperately wanted them to like and accept her and not think her strange or stupid.
We don’t really see people much these days. But I know for a fact that my wife has always said she doesn’t like me “rescuing her”. I have always stepped in to protect her from getting lost, messing up the dinner, making sure she had washed enough clothes for her and the children… etc etc. I have recently stopped doing these things. And it’s added to her being more calm and relaxed. She deals with things so much better herself. And another thought I’ve come to realise from being on here is, why do we protect them from other people really knowing them? It used to be me, constantly reminding her, “we need to get some washing on if you want the baby in a particular outfit tonight” (apparently she gets her legs caught in the bigger/sideways opening ones). She would flip out and say, “would you stop banging on about that and let me deal with it?” But then she wouldn’t. And then she would screech at me for not getting it done. Recently she has decided she wants to be in charge of ALL the washing. So I’ve just left her to it. And she has messed up. And had to put the baby in a different outfit. And she was very calm and didn’t shout at anyone. I assume the baby was fine in the different outfit. I didn’t ask.

[Good Intentions]

...I’m still working on things, like the other day I said to her, “is it ok if I have my breakfast and coffee while you get ready?” And I’ve started to realise that I am still asking my wife’s permission over silly little things, which is disrespecting myself. Most of the time I stop myself or rephrase it to something else, but sometimes I forget and remind myself to do better next time.

@Broken person - thank you for your post, it really resonated with me, as well as the comments from @T0M & @mitten who I've interacted with on other posts

the instance you described that I quoted is very relatable - in hindsight, I can recall occasionally asking for permission for things in a way that was disrespectful to myself because it was driven by paranoia/fear of triggering my partner with some seemingly harmless action.

Also, an idea that I think both you & @Tom have discussed on this thread that I strongly empathize with is this idea of a "lose-lose" whereby our partners basically say "even though you're trying to demonstrate your love for me by doing "X", it's not resonating with me, you should do "Y" instead, but if you try to do "Y" now then it's going to be meaningless to me because I had to prompt you/ask you to do it"

I have been in that situation too many times to count & it is absolutely maddening. I think it's important to remember that the reason our communication/demonstration of our love isn't being effectively received by our pwBPD has nothing to do with "X" or "Y" or "Z"...giving our partners 100 different expressions of love doesn't change the fundamental problem on their end that there's an issue receiving that love. And that's something that, try as we might, is completely outside of our control. And boy did I try...

@T0M - based on my interpretation of the experience you've posted about on this website, I think you & I are similar in another way...being with our partners exposes us to repeated situations where our sense of equity / fairness is violated (often in a rude or disrespectful way) and I know for me, that's incredibly hard to handle. It's extremely difficult to not personalize. It's even more difficult to not "JADE"...and yet that's exactly what we have to strive to be if we want to be in a relationship with someone with this disorder.

[thankful person]

Good intentions, the reading I’ve done from the advice on here, from members and in books has got me to realise how much I was buying into all the drama with my desperate apologies and need to please my wife, trying and trying to follow her rules and “get it right” for once, but as we’ve realised… you actually can’t get it right and the rules change suddenly without warning or reason. My perception is that bpd’s feed off our negative emotions like a vulture. If we get angry and upset then they get more so… if we keep going on about something or try and discuss it once they perceive it’s “over” then they will be angry and upset again to the point we wish we’d not spoken.
Now I may have an unfair advantage because for over 20 years I have worked with children, some with severe behavioural issues. I am very good at it, but this did not help me to communicate or get on better with my wife. What my work mostly involves, in difficult moments, is pretending that you are not angry and upset at what the child just said or did. For some reason I could never transfer this skill to my personal life. I think for me I just needed to have MY own feelings validated for once. As “caretaker”, part of our role is to not share with others quite how crazy our partners are or how badly they treat us. Joining the bpd family and suddenly getting that overdose of validation we find on here… I can somehow now act as though her unkind words and deeds don’t upset me. And it’s almost like, when she doesn’t get the emotional reaction from me that she was after.. she is able to drop the matter and move on. I would also say that after 7 years when I found the forum, I was absolutely ready to accept what I suspected, that my wife will not change or improve her behaviour… this led to me becoming empowered to make changes… and omg what? Actually yes she has changed and improved her behaviour, all because of the changes I have made… I’m still amazed.

[Cat Familiar]

And you’ve made incredible progress in a very short time. 

[T0M]

Hi Tom, I was going to say also, about the lose-lose situations... Another thing I have been working on is just being less bothered by my wife’s reactions or responses to anything I say or do. I know you’re struggling with that because I get from you that you feel the relationship is so unfair, why can’t she just grow up and be reasonable? And I totally understand that. I think being on here in particular and learning how others have coped… we do have to learn to just let stuff go… accept that she is not going to grow up or become reasonable and it’s, you have her as she is or not at all. I’ve found my wife says something critical and I acknowledge it, state something along the lines of, “that must be hard for you”, then state my case and then refuse to engage further over it. If possible I leave the situation for a while, and don’t bring it up later. It seems to work. If you want to say, “I love you” I’d pick a “good” moment (if you possibly can I know it’s hard). Whilst it’s tempting to try and avoid potentially ruining a good moment, it might be worth it. Good luck.

An update in the 'I love you' situation.
Yesterday we got in to a fight regarding basketball training and the fact that I go on a ski trip next week. She said that she isn't going to see me for an entire week and that I was selfish to go to basketball practice. Now, she arranged diner for herself and a GF on Friday, so a bit puzzling to me why Thursday is again so important.

She went on and on and finally mentioned that I should take time to think about our relationship. I told her that I did not need time to think about it, because I know I LOVE HER and WANTED TO BE WITH HER.

She then went on about us being in a bad place, and such and so, and THAT I STILL COULD NOT SAY THAT I LOVED HER!
I then told her that is seems like she has some-kind of a filter to filter away all the nice things I'm saying, and that she will never hear the nice things if she doesn't want to hear them.

I think it did broke through to her. But then she started about the ski-trip. And I know this is weighing on her, and I was just waiting for that discussion to start. I guess it started, so the next couple of days, I will be defending that me going on a ski trip doesn't equals me not loving her.

[T0M]

@T0M - based on my interpretation of the experience you've posted about on this website, I think you & I are similar in another way...being with our partners exposes us to repeated situations where our sense of equity / fairness is violated (often in a rude or disrespectful way) and I know for me, that's incredibly hard to handle. It's extremely difficult to not personalize. It's even more difficult to not "JADE"...and yet that's exactly what we have to strive to be if we want to be in a relationship with someone with this disorder.

So true. I feel like my values and boundaries are contently being violated. And my GF sells it well. Up to a point that i give in. That I indeed start thinking: I was wrong and she is right. The funny thing is, if I tell her, I'm sorry darling, I was wrong, she even gets mad about that. The usual response is: " I don't want to be right, what do you take me for. Some kind of a narcissist? A relationship is not about who is wrong and who is right. ' And than I start defending why I was wrong and she was right.  

[Good Intentions]

As “caretaker”, part of our role is to not share with others quite how crazy our partners are or how badly they treat us. Joining the bpd family and suddenly getting that overdose of validation we find on here… I can somehow now act as though her unkind words and deeds don’t upset me. And it’s almost like, when she doesn’t get the emotional reaction from me that she was after.. she is able to drop the matter and move on. I would also say that after 7 years when I found the forum, I was absolutely ready to accept what I suspected, that my wife will not change or improve her behaviour… this led to me becoming empowered to make changes… and omg what? Actually yes she has changed and improved her behaviour, all because of the changes I have made… I’m still amazed.

This makes me happy to hear. I've always believed in the mantra of "be the change you want to see in the world", and it seems like the steps you've taken to improve your own emotional maturity (primarily not personalizing/reacting) has led to positive progress in your relationship. That's worth celebrating! And I know I'm not alone when I say that I wish my ex-pwBPD would even give us a chance to realize that type of relationship growth now that she & I both have a clearer understanding of our areas for improvement as we've become more aware of our conflict patterns/relationship dynamic that is at least somewhat defined by her BPD. But of course, she chose to discard me right as we started to emerge from the wilderness of confusion, just as we each have started to engage with the resources that are designed to help us...go figure.

[Good Intentions]

Yesterday we got in to a fight regarding basketball training and the fact that I go on a ski trip next week. She said that she isn't going to see me for an entire week and that I was selfish to go to basketball practice. Now, she arranged diner for herself and a GF on Friday, so a bit puzzling to me why Thursday is again so important.

She went on and on and finally mentioned that I should take time to think about our relationship. I told her that I did not need time to think about it, because I know I LOVE HER and WANTED TO BE WITH HER.

@T0M - my brother, are we the same person? Haha all jokes aside, if you'll recall I responded to your initial story about the issue surrounding your desire to play weeknight basketball (I mentioned I also play pick-up and that's caused my pwBPD to irrationally feel neglected/deprioritized) and now you mention this ski trip which is also relatable because I got dumped right before I went to Colorado for a week with some college friends.

What I recall from your prior post was something like this - you wanted to play basketball which caused her to feel some sort of neglect/feeling of not being wanted or loved, so she then made her Saturday morning yoga out to be a big "I can't miss this" deal, and then when you tried to be respectful of her desire to wake up in her own bed & go straight to yoga, she accused you of creating distance in the relationship ("so you don't want to hang out with me Friday?")

Same thing here - she feels hurt by you having a life outside of her, so she's going to "get you back" by putting something on her calendar that doesn't include you. And then when you respectfully honor her desire to spend time with her friend, she's going to use that to irrationally feed her concocted narrative that you don't want to spend time with her.

How many times have I heard my partner say to me "you know things between us aren't good, right?" Yes, partner with BPD who frequently verbally abuses me and rarely (if ever) has emotional capacity for me, or has a desire to see me as a human being & forgive me for a silly mistake every now & then, I know that "things aren't great"...but me wanting to play basketball (exercise is critical for physical & mental health), or go on a ski trip and experience the healing powers of nature, has nothing to do with my feelings for you.

But I know that as hard as it is for me to not personalize, it must be equally challenging (if not more difficult) for her.

My advice to you - try to be as empathetic as possible (without getting defensive) when she inevitably starts trying to force-feed you this idea that you wanting to do something that will make you feel happy & normal & free is a bad thing for the relationship. She'll make you out to be selfish, but really what she's saying is "you having a life makes me feel as if you want nothing to do with me". In these examples, your pwBPD is literally jealous of a sport for making you happy / causing you to feel excitement & energy. Because in her world, if anything is creating that feeling for you other than her, than she must be expendable & not worth anything to you. Incredibly flawed logic, completely ridiculous & untrue, but you're not going to be able to convince her of anything.

And trying to explain to her how far from reality that is will fall on deaf ears with almost total certainty. You have to figure out a way to empathize with her in some way if you want to avoid the circular conversation that goes nowhere.

Maybe something like - "I understand that you don't like when we separate for long periods of time...would it be helpful if we scheduled times for us to talk on the phone or FaceTime?" or "I don't like feeling distant from you either. Could we prioritize making time for each other leading up to this ski trip so we both feel more secure when we're apart?"

[T0M]

Maybe something like - "I understand that you don't like when we separate for long periods of time...would it be helpful if we scheduled times for us to talk on the phone or FaceTime?" or "I don't like feeling distant from you either. Could we prioritize making time for each other leading up to this ski trip so we both feel more secure when we're apart?"

That is magic, right there!
I'm going to memorize that and practice it in front of a mirror.

You captured my story well, Good Intentions.
If only sometimes, doesn't even have to be all the time, they would give a glimpse of understanding.
That one morning we wake up, and that she says, I'm sorry about last night. It was so foolish of me to think you were going to leave me...
But I guess that will never happen.

[Good Intentions]

If only sometimes, doesn't even have to be all the time, they would give a glimpse of understanding.
That one morning we wake up, and that she says, I'm sorry about last night. It was so foolish of me to think you were going to leave me...
But I guess that will never happen.

I feel this at my core. I've always understood the severity of my partner's disorder in the way that it completely takes over her mind and causes her to feel & therefore truly believe a variety of different things that rationally she knows (or at least claims to know) not to be true...so why then, when the dust settles from the latest blow-up and she's no longer dysregulated and I've somehow got her back to feeling "ok" / seeing things a little more clearly, does that communication of understanding never come? I wish any of us were capable of truly answer that question, but in reality we can only speculate. My hunch is that it's the same internal reasoning every time - my pwBPD's emotional experience is one of the victim which allows her to deny accountability & responsibility for her own actions which keeps her from experiencing / having to work through feelings of shame or disappointment.

Another realization that has hit me heavily over the last couple weeks (during which we've been NC) is how easily we lose our sense of self when we're continuously required to attempt to demonstrate / prove our love, our character, who we know ourselves to be as individuals & partners...it's exhausting (and pointless) to keep expending that effort to "prove" to someone who you are, how benevolent you are, how willing to sacrifice for the relationship you are.

Know in your heart that those things are true, and accept that you don't need someone else to validate/agree for it to be true. It's human nature to want our partners to see ourselves for who we really are, but at what cost? And if my partner still, to this day 4 years later, is able to convince herself that I'm not loving or caring or kind, why do I think trying to "prove it" to her for the 4,398th time is going to all of a sudden cement that in her head permanently?

[Cat Familiar]

so why then, when the dust settles from the latest blow-up and she's no longer dysregulated and I've somehow got her back to feeling "ok" / seeing things a little more clearly, does that communication of understanding never come?

Think of when you did something stupid, or behaved like an azz, or were stubbornly oblivious to accepting the truth about something. We all do this now and then. When confronted about it, or realizing it ourselves, we typically feel embarrassment and shame. Most of us, who don’t have a personality disorder, can chalk it up to “oops, that was a dumb thing to do” and forgive ourselves.

Not so with a pwBPD. These events are just further confirmation of how defective they are. They will torment themselves for a long time afterwards, and often how you will perceive this days later will be through accusations of not caring about them and projections of their own behavior upon you.

[thankful person]

I wanted to share another positive outcome here. For the past couple of years I haven’t seen most of my students in person due to covid. But for the past several years it has become a relationship “rule” that I would discuss any prospective students with my wife before taking them on, and I wouldn’t take them on if she was uncomfortable with it. Yes, being self-employed I have lost income over this. No matter whether it was a male or female, no matter what age (if adult), her response has become always the same, “what if you are attracted to this student? What if you want to have sex with them? What if you fall in love with them? I don’t want you to do it.” She doesn’t trust me because I started a secret online/Skype relationship with her before I left my ex for her. Ok I understand this. But I have said time and again, “I wouldn’t go through all that again, not for anyone…” Well last week I had an enquiry from an adult female student who has learning difficulties and needed help with some coursework. I told my wife that she had messaged, just as she discusses any dogs she’s going to be looking after with me. I mentioned that I would have to go to the student’s home as we don’t have a computer here.Then the student rang me, as she doesn’t like typing. She was emotional and needy and crying on the phone, which my wife was aware of. I knew that this may be extra triggering for my wife, thinking I may want to take care of someone else. I said to the student, “I don’t think I can come this weekend, I’ll just check with my wife what’s going on..” and then to my wife, “we have a dog coming Saturday, right?” I help her out with the kids and other dogs when new dogs arrive. My wife said yes, so I said to the student, “what about next weekend?” And all the reassuring stuff that I could help her and to try and relax until then. My wife did not even question the breaking of another “rule” (I guess this is boundary setting that I get to choose what work I take on). After I had met and taught the student I told my wife it went well and briefly explained what I’d been doing with her (conversation not interrogation). I was not asked whether I was attracted to her? Wanted to have sex with her? Falling in love? Or want to be with her? None of the usual questions. To which the answer would have been no. I realise something else. I used to get sucked into such people’s negative energy, and become overly involved. But I was there to type and help her get her coursework in order. It is my job to be encouraging and positive. But I am not a therapist. And if I was looking for another relationship - which I’m not - I would be looking for someone who is more emotionally healthy. Not someone else who needs help with mental health issues.

[formflier]

Keep up the good changes.

Here is a question for you...so what do you plan to say when your wife asks one of those odd questions like "what if you want to have sex with (fill in the blank)?"

Best,

FF

[thankful person]

Thanks FF,
As I say I feel like I’m muddling through but it seems to be working. So my goal here would be not to dwell on the conversation for very long. “I know that you have concerns about me being attracted to other people, and that must be difficult for you to feel you don’t trust me.” I expect she would step in to remind me of how I left my ex for her. “I am not attracted to x and I have absolutely no interest in finding another relationship or sex partner. I do not wish to have this conversation and if you carry on talking about it then I’m going to go do housework/play the piano/go for a walk…”
I have started to follow through on my warnings that I will temporarily “leave” her if she continues talking about something. I believe that my wife now actively avoids conversations that could lead to this, because she doesn’t like or want this consequence. And with me now stepping away from the drama, what’s the point in her starting it? You’ve all been amazing. Seriously.  

[formflier]

Lots of learning and positive relationship change.  I'm especially heartened that boundaries appear to be nudging your wife's behavior in a good way.

So...your proposed responses to sexual accusations (and the like).  Lots of words there...LOTS.

What if I asked you to say the same thing, yet use only 1/3 of the words.

Also...what would it read like if you DID NOT repeat the accusation.

There is not a right or wrong answer on how to respond, it's really a trial and error thing.  However...less words equals MORE POWER and LESS DISTRACTION from your message.

Best,

FF

[Good Intentions]

Think of when you did something stupid, or behaved like an azz, or were stubbornly oblivious to accepting the truth about something. We all do this now and then. When confronted about it, or realizing it ourselves, we typically feel embarrassment and shame. Most of us, who don’t have a personality disorder, can chalk it up to “oops, that was a dumb thing to do” and forgive ourselves.

Not so with a pwBPD. These events are just further confirmation of how defective they are. They will torment themselves for a long time afterwards, and often how you will perceive this days later will be through accusations of not caring about them and projections of their own behavior upon you.

I feel like as I've learned more & more about BPD I've come to realize that yes - fear of abandonment is a primary driver of behavior / decision-making for pwBPD, but it also seems like the complete avoidance of situations where they may be forced to process feelings of shame or regret or embarrassment is an equally pervasive issue. In my relationship, I feel like I was discarded because the pain of losing me as a partner/person in her life was less than the pain of processing the shame & disappointment & sadness that she may feel as a result of recognizing who she is as a partner in the relationship. It's easier to let go of me than to accept ugly truths.