Gifts For My Children

[lm1109]

Hi everyone! I am going on about 6 months NC. My parents seem to have decided that they want nothing to do with my children as well. In the beginning of NC they sent bday cards/holiday cards in the mail for my kids.
Well, Easter and a birthday came and went... and nothing from them. My oldest son has a phone, I opted to not block my parents. The only correspondence is when my son texted thank you for a birthday card back in January. The Witch texted back you're welcome and then...nothing since. They haven't tried to reach out to them, ask about them, try to see them, and now aren't even acknowledging them for holidays. Of course in my heart and "right mind" I know that this is a good thing. A clean break is what we need. However, I can't help but feel the pain and rejection FOR my children as well. I can't help but feel the anger for my kids, they deserve SO much better. I beat my head against the wall for YEARS trying to mold a relationship out of nothing so that my kids had a semblance of normalcy. It got me nowhere. I should've cut ties before ANY tiny fraction of a relationship was even formed, deep down I always knew it would end this way. The abusive witch will stop at nothing to hurt me. Of course she would hurt my kids to hurt me. Of course a woman who has an inability to love her own children can't love grandchildren either.

I wanted to ask if anyone had any advice about the situation. My intuition and history with a bpd witch tells me that the cards/gifts will be sporadic. I believe that when she doesn't get a reaction out of me for not sending them she will begin sending them again...she HAS to make her presence felt...so I know this isn't the end. However, I refuse to allow her to play the "game" with my kids. She has already proven that she can't be consistent nor fair in her sending gifts, and so my thoughts are to end it now. How can I justify to one child that his "grandparents" sent his brother a card and money but not him? My husband said if anything shows up he can open it, take the money out, and throw the card away. We can spend the money on all three kids(a movie, game, dinner out, etc)I think that sounds like a good plan...but can't help the sick feeling of not telling them about a card. I suppose I can explain the unfairness to them when they're older. My oldest is 13 and would "get it" but I know it will hurt him. My youngest are 8 & 9. Of course I want to call them up and tell them to never send another thing and tell them F U for hurting my kids, but I'm not stupid, I know that's the reaction she wants from me. That was the point of hurting my kids. I'm not breaking NC. I guess my feeling is that my parents "disappearing" to my kids is better than giving the witch any power and control by allowing her to pick and choose when and to which child she will send gifts to. At this point it's her only means of control left. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Has anyone else experienced this with BPD grandparents? Thanks!

[Riv3rW0lf]

If it can be any consolation, even if you were in contact with them : there would still be injustice.

I've seen my BPD mother give 60$ to her golden grandchild (my nephew) and 20$ to her scapegoat (my niece). Their birthday is on the exact same week, in October, so there wasn't any misunderstanding.. she was just being unfair to them. My brother called her out on it and she said : "but I bought a winter coat to her last winter, and I told her then this would be taken out of her birthday gift". Now I highly doubt this actually happened and she gives stuff to my nephew all the time without taking it out of his birthday gifts.

Recently, she told my nephew his parents loved him less than my niece, and the list of wedging and manipulation probably extend to many other things I will never know about.

All this to say : contact or not, she would be unfair to them as they grow up... So I would personallyuse all of it as a teaching exercice about how unfair people can actually be.

Unfairness is something that is understood VERY early. I've seen my toddler picks up on unfair things, it's primal, really... And unfairness is part of life... I am on the "no shielding" my kids from life personnally. As long as they are being validated in their anger and pain about the unfairness : it is healthy. And it is a great way to teach them on ways to cope with unfairness... by taking actions maybe, calling it out, or ignoring it and treating yourself to something you like. That's my opinion anyway.

Else, your husband's idea is even better in the sense where it truly become a clean break between your children and them. And seeing how my mother meddled with my niece and nephew: I think this is a completely reasonable break.

Do you have, around you, a couple of older friends that like your kids? I used to have one where I lived last... She treated my daughter like her very own grandchild, it made my heart whole and my daughter loved her so very much. Since they won't be closed to their grandparents on your side, then maybe a couple of friend could adopt them as such. .

Else, I personnally never knew my grandparents on my father's side, and on my mother's side, it is such a big family that I weren't closed with them, they lived far and I saw them maybe twice a year and they'd basically ignore me. And I didn't starve for grandparents. You don't know what you don't know.

Hugs

[Notwendy]

I agree with Riv3rWolf. Contact with gifts is still drama.

My BPD mother sends overly extravagant gifts to my children. She uses money as a form of control and to make people like her and to obligate them to her.

However, she didn't figure out that the best way to have a good relationship with grandchildren is to not mistreat their mother. She'd prefer to interact with them without involving me. When they were younger, I  had boundaries with this. They are older now and she went behind my back to get their cell phone numbers. She's quite pleased with herself when she did this - thinking she did it behind my back- but they told me when she called them. They are young adults now, and are able to have boundaries with her.

I don't want anything from her. This was established long ago by her lack of gift giving to me. Once at a college graduation when I saw my friends opening gifts from their parents, I mentioned something to her. She looked at me coldly and sneered "never expect a gift from me" and I don't.

I haven't received gifts from her in a long time. However, once for a milestone birthday, a box came in the mail from an upscale store. It was for me from her. I had one moment of hope there- not because I wanted something expensive from her, but the hope that maybe she actually thought about giving me something she thought was a nice thing. ( she has expensive preferences). When I opened the box, there was a small trinket that I recognized she had bought as generic presents, stocking stuffer items she gave to everyone. She had picked the least costly and impersonal item in the store. I cried. I wish she had not sent me anything instead.

With my children, she sends extravagant checks and items. I would prefer she didn't send these but I can't stop her.

As to contact or no contact. You decide what is best for you and your family. Gift giving is probably going to be a reflection of her disorder with either choice.

[lm1109]

Thank you Riverwolf & Notwendy for your replies. Interestingly I had a few hours alone with my oldest son this evening after picking him up from his after school club. I decided to talk with him openly and honestly about what's going on. We had a previous discussion and he told me that previous discussion had made him think about some things and that he had some memories that he wanted to talk to me about. A few were memories of my Mom flipping out on me, my Dad, and nephew that I knew about(I was there) but one is a memory after I had walked away one day. He told me that I had walked away from our pool deck and into our house and that when he was alone with her she told him that it was ok to keep secrets from me and that the two of them could keep secrets from me. Thank God I never left him or my other children alone for more then a few minutes with her...she was "planting the seeds" for future abuse. He also remembers being mad at me because of things she said about me. This makes sense to me because at one point I caught her telling him on the phone(right in front of me) that she was sick of hearing my sh*t and that she couldn't stand me. When I confronted her about it my Dad rushed her to the hospital and said I gave her a "heart attack" (it was not)
I'm so sick over it all. My realization is that all of these years I actually deep down believed that I was overreacting or somehow wrong for not trusting her to be alone with my children(EVEN after the phonecall PROOF). I STILL believed that I was the asshole. I STILL somehow believed that her abuse of me was somehow because of ME and ME alone! ALL of these YEARS later in my healing journey and I'm just now truly understanding that NONE of it was about ME. She is an abuser and an abuser will abuse ANYONE!

[Notwendy]

The secrets! That is my mother's method as well. She takes someone aside, says she's going to share a secret about me to them and not to tell me. It's been so destructive. My mother just makes these things up but not so outrageous that they aren't believable.

She was beginning to do this with my children as well. When they were little, I never left her alone with them, unsupervised and even as teens I didn't, but teens are more independent. I could see her luring them away from me so she'd have the chance to do this with them. For instance, she'd say she had something to show them, like a book or something they might like, and then they'd be asked to follow her to another room. That's when we established that they should not be alone with her at all- not even in the next room.

She has done this with her family members, and also with my father, to the point where it changed our relationship. She's even tried to do this with my husband and his parents. Fortunately my H knows the extent of her behaviors and while I didn't discuss her much with my in laws, they caught on to it.

She's also made some snide comments about my H's family to me- just enough to make me doubt them- I know better, but see how these comments work.

My mother can lie straight to your face and then deny it. She seems to have no qualms about doing that. It's to the point where I can't tell if what she says is true or not. There was no way I'd allow her private access to my kids and I didn't. I don't have this concern now that they are young adults. They've seen her behaviors and while they are cordial to her, they also keep an emotional distance, but until they were old enough to be able to do this, I kept a protective watch on this. You are wise to do this too.

[Riv3rW0lf]

We lived 10hours away for most of my daughter's life so my mother could not have access to her alone, it had to be via phone, and I had to be there.

It's interesting to see her abuse was almost unconscious sometimes.

Once, I called her and I was saying it was a tough day, my daughter was two and it had been a tantrum day. My daughter walked into the room, came toward the phone and looked at my mother, who said: "Hi DD, what did you mother do to you today to make you so upset? You know you can tell me everything."

I hung up right away. I was flabbergasted. I don't think she can control herself. It is her disorder. If she cannot do it behind my back, she still dysregulates and does it right in front of me.

She took care of my daughter for a few days in November while I worked downstairs. She was never alone with her, my stepfather was there. I thought it was safe, but my daughter ate less and less, and I could tell she was deeply unhappy. I am glad we left quickly. I wonder what kind of things she told her behind my back. But I think my bond with my daughter is much too strong compared to her, that she couldn't do any damages at that precise moment... All this to say: I am now on high alert for her abusive behaviors toward my children and me.

An abuser will be abusive with everyone, absolutely.

I want to recognize the maturity of your child, his honesty with you and how he told you about his memories. It goes to show your bond with them is strong.

[lm1109]

Once, I called her and I was saying it was a tough day, my daughter was two and it had been a tantrum day. My daughter walked into the room, came toward the phone and looked at my mother, who said: "Hi DD, what did you mother do to you today to make you so upset? You know you can tell me everything."

I hung up right away. I was flabbergasted. I don't think she can control herself. It is her disorder. If she cannot do it behind my back, she still dysregulates and does it right in front of me.

This is exactly why she said that to my son on the phone. I had a single moment where I told her the truth about having a hard day. My youngest son's are only 15 months apart...my youngest was a newborn. I was sleep deprived and as you described it was a "tantrum day" and she called and I made the mistake of answering. My guard was down and she knew it. I just wanted her to tell me it would be ok, or whatever a normal mother would say to their child on a hard day. Instead she used my child to hurt me and when confronted she had a fake heart attack. I remember my Dad manipulatively calling me from the hospital that evening. He told me that he wanted me to hear it from him. I remember thinking "who else could I have possibly heard it from...there's no family, they don't have friends, and the last I checked the news doesn't cover fake narcissist heart attacks." In that situation IM the one who ended up apologizing to HER! It makes me so sick to even think about it. That was the pattern...if I showed weakness she pounced on me.

The secrets! That is my mother's method as well. She takes someone aside, says she's going to share a secret about me to them and not to tell me. It's been so destructive. My mother just makes these things up but not so outrageous that they aren't believable.

Thank you for sharing this. The fact that she actually used the word secrets with my child makes my skin crawl. It's so predatory to tell a child to keep secrets from their parents. The fact that she used the FEW minutes she had alone with him to do this really blows my mind!

I want to recognize the maturity of your child, his honesty with you and how he told you about his memories. It goes to show your bond with them is strong.

Thank you. It was a hard conversation, but also an enlightened one. I took the opportunity to tell him that I was learning what NOT to do. I will always listen to what he says to me and I'll always be willing to grow and evolve and hear him! NOTHING could or would ever keep me from unconditionally loving and supporting my kids. I also apologized for any memories he has of me overreacting or being overwhelmed and explained why I was overwhelmed, but also took full responsibility, so that he never blames himself for any of the moments that I had an inability to regulate my emotions. I know I've been a really good Mom, but I also know that children pick up on the anxiety. I realize now that I'm HUMAN and that it's perfectly OK that I was not a perfect parent, in fact it's humanly impossible.  I've always been a big advocate for apologizing to my children if I felt that I overreacted, I always treated them as humans with feelings and have been really good at talking about their feelings. Where I believe I misstepped was too much shielding.  I regret trying to "hide" the mental illnesses of my FOO. After listening to his memories, I regret that he was left questioning those incidents. I regret that I allowed her to abuse me in front of my kids. I regret that I unconsciously normalized my Mom's behavior. Last night I had a hard time sleeping and I was REALLY regretting exposing my children to her at all(even though it was limited and monitored exposure). But I fell asleep reminding myself that I did the best that I could. I had to play life with a real sick and harmful hand, but it makes me really happy that my kids can identify sick and not normal behavior...all we can do is take the lessons.

Now that I'm out of the F.O.G I see it all so clearly. At every turn she tried to break me and I'm still really angry, especially as more and more seems to unfold. The only "revenge" (so to speak) is to keep breaking the cycle...keep telling the truth and shining the light on ALL of the dysfunction, even my own, or maybe especially my own. Working through the twelve steps for my eating disorder, codependency, and disordered thinking has been life changing. The "beloved rug" that my parents pushed all of the abuse and manipulation under is not just getting cleaned out...I'm lighting it on fire! There will be NO rugs to push anything under in my life ever again!

I decided to honestly acknowledge the gift situation with my kids. If a gift is sent to any of them in the future we will use the money for something fun for all 3 of them(since SHE can't be fair) They were fine with that and genuinely understood that the unfairness has nothing to do with any of them. The best part is that while there is an inevitable bit of sadness, that's all it was. Just a BIT of sadness, because ultimately my parents don't mean that much to them, because they haven't been much to them. My kids have too much good in their lives to get bogged down with my parents darkness...so that's the good news!

[Riv3rW0lf]

I felt so many feelings reading your answer Im1109, I had shivers, good ones. You describe the mother I wished I had have, and the one I am also trying to be to my kids. It is beautiful to read your love and energy, and healing journey. Inspiring to me, it pulls me up and makes me want to continue too!

I see you felt guilty but didn't stay within this guilt. Indeed, as mothers, we only need to be good enough, not perfect. A perfect mother would probably screw up their kids by being perfect ! They need a bit of pain, of unfairness, they need to go through anger, sadness, to understand the beauty of reconciliation and love, to know that love is unconditional.

And you are providing them with the best gift of all: you are showing them that the past does not define us. We can move beyond it, heal. We are powerful, and we won't let pain, hurt and unfairness pull us down. Instead, we drive upward toward healing, building our own happiness.

You are great, I am glad you found a solution to this that meets all your family's needs !  

[lm1109]

Thank you for the kinds words Riverwolf...they're very meaningful to me. As mothers, we don't get acknowledged  often...which is interesting because I can't imagine any "job or work" more important! It makes me inspired to know that you and everyone here is on the same important journey of breaking intergenerational trauma...it makes the road a little less lonely. It's been so healing to express myself through writing, journaling and also posting here.