Struggling how to deal with my SIL w/ BPD

[Sinsin]

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[pursuingJoy]

First, welcome!  

I don't know what to do now. I still feel resentment, but I also feel sorry about her mental state.
- Do I reach out to her or BIL? Even if I feel resentment towards her still, BIL is a great guy. And seems like he has suffered a lot too in all of this.
- Do I still do nothing and act like I don't know about her BPD?
- Do I maintain my previous attitude and treat her like an adult or handle her with gentler kids gloves next time we meet?

If you still feel some resentment, I might take some time to heal before reaching out. It's draining to deal with pwBPD. The attacks feel pretty personal when you don't know what's going on. I know I was hurt for a long time, even after I learned about BPD.

Unless she asked your MIL to share her diagnosis with you, indicating that she wants you to know, I probably wouldn't bring up BPD to her.

I might caution towards kid gloves or pity, too. She's still responsible for her behavior. What's changed is your understanding of the driving source of her behavior, and that can inform your response to her. pwBPD often have a high need for validation, and small things we do (perhaps what she's referring to when she says you're 'not paying enough attention to her') can make them feel invalidated. Under the tools tab above, check out the article on validation. It's really helpful.

Boundaries are helpful. It took me time to sort out what boundaries were needed. I had to set boundaries around how much time I spent obsessing about my person with BPD in order to protect my peace. I set boundaries around the length and structure of visits with her, and what information would be shared with her. I no longer accept her generous gifts of money because they left me indebted to her.  Thankfully it sounds like you have limited exposure to your SIL, but maybe there are boundaries to explore in your relationship with your husband and how you talk about it? Just brainstorming.

There are layers to BPD and how it impacts family. Does your husband understand BPD? Does he talk to his brother about it?

[zachira]

My BPD mother ran a smear campaign against her SIL, the wife of my uncle, and they all lived in the same town. My uncle's wife conducted herself with class and respect. She is the person who convinced my father to take an interest in me, and pointed out how unfair it was to put my sister on a pedestal. (I was the family scapegoat.) My mother wasn't so adept at hiding who she was as some people with BPD are. My uncle's wife knew how to affirmatively speak up about what was going on. With time, my uncle's wife gained the respect of many people in town while my mother's BPD behaviors became more widely known. What do you think would help you to deal with your SIL?

[Sinsin]

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[zachira]

You are wondering how to act towards you SIL going forward. I would say boundaries are key knowing that there is no such as emotional reciprocity with someone like her. Grey rocking, keeping the contact and conversations, on a very superficial level only talking about what your SIL is interested in while walking away if she becomes angry and abusive. Above all, limiting your contact with her to only necessary contact.

[Sinsin]

This is

[Sinsin]

Under the tools tab above, check out the article on validation. It's really helpful.

That article had some very helpful insights. And I have a feeling "invalidation" has been my and my husbands biggest 'sin'. Not intentionally, from our point of view, at least.

[livednlearned]

Why am I so bothered?

I wonder this, too, for myself -- my in-law is a stepdaughter with BPD.

You may be sensing how destructive and abusive the behaviors can be, so your alarm system has been activated and your antennae are up. You mention that your BIL and H are not as close -- that's unfortunately a very common occurrence when someone marries a pwBPD.

pwBPD can drive wedges in families and isolate their spouses. Thankfully for you, your MIL and FIL handled things well, but that isn't often the case. 

what about me made her target me out of everyone in the family

Maybe this applies in your situation ... the only thing that made sense to me is that SD25 is competing for scarce resources. Everyone is a threat, some are more threatening than others. You happen to be very threatening, perhaps because your roles are similar. It becomes sibling rivalry times a thousand. If you get attention from family members, she is not getting that attention. In her mind, there isn't enough to go around, it's a finite supply.

There is also a pervasive one-up mindset when a pwBPD has a target. That becomes a pervasive way to measure self-worth. For SD25, any attention H directs my way means less for SD25, therefore I must be taken down. It's not personal, it's a matter of survival.

What's even stranger, SD25 seems to like me. She wants a close relationship while simultaneously sabotaging that possibility.

It may work different in your situation, but for me, I focus on non-verbal boundaries. There is no discussion about what is happening, what is being done, or how I'm doing it. I validate her with non-verbal communication like "oh" and "huh!" and "hmmm" as well as pleasantly interested facial expressions. I'm kind to her, I don't address her behaviors, I simply direct the action away from me.

Sometimes I have to do a correction and when that happens, I usually think carefully about the dynamics ahead of time to increase the odds my boundary is successfully asserted.

Since you are a target, it's probably a perfectly acceptable form of self-preservation to limit the time you spend together. An expert on BPD and high conflict, Bill Eddy, likes to say, "minimize the target." The less communication there is, the smaller the target.

One thing, too, is to be aware of the way pwBPD can create drama when they aren't present, like the example you give with your H.

I looked at it this way: If I'm arguing with H about SD25, she achieves her mission.

On the upside, I have learned skills that have strengthened my bond with H. And somewhere inside, I'm convinced this makes SD25 feel secure.

I don't think all pwBPD want to seed chaos in their relationship, but the disorder makes it difficult to change those destructive tendencies.

Having good boundaries and not overestimating what I can do has allowed us to have a distant but manageable relationship. We'll never be close -- I think that's too triggering for her and ultimately, at least for me, too damaging. And as sad as it is, that may be the best we can hope for.

Validation is a great skill to have in your toolkit. Since you are the primary target, be aware that boundaries may be even more important, or at least equally important.

 

[zachira]

It seems your biggest challenge is to become less of a target for your SIL's emotional dysregulations. You are already doing a lot by limiting your contact with your SIL both by not seeing much of her and by not being around her as much as possible when you see her at family gatherings. Be careful when validating your SIL even when the validation is valid, as this may make you more of a target in the long run, because she craves validation.

[Sinsin]

One thing, too, is to be aware of the way pwBPD can create drama when they aren't present, like the example you give with your H.

I used to worry about this a lot. However, since me and my H got on the same page, and MIL confronted SIL about her irrational attitudes and behaviors, I feel more at peace.

In my in-laws' family, my MIL is definitely one of the most important communication nodes. So SIL will struggle to stir up any significant drama against me with anyone now that MIL is no longer entertaining her claims against me. Like, MIL and the rest of family wishes her well and speedy recovery, but there is no way in hell MIL is not asking my H first about any claims in the future.

Yeah. There were some tough years, where I had no support from my H or anyone in the in-law family, and I knew something was up with SIL.

[Sinsin]

I looked at it this way: If I'm arguing with H about (pwBPD), she achieves her mission.

This has been my strongest motivator to remain calm. I didn't know about her BPD, so I had a lot of ideas, why she was doing what she does.

Even though most in-laws speak English and we live in an English-speaking country, I am an "outsider" in my in-laws family - I am the only one that doesn't speak their mother language, know their foods, or traditions, etc.

So, mostly, I thought, SIL did what she did because was a bully and because she could (my SIL comes from the same background as the rest of in-laws). And I refused to give a bully the satisfaction. I remained strong, refused to show any sign of weakness, even though I was hurting a lot at some points. I remained kind and enthusiastic in larger family gatherings, and didn't question publicly SIL's words and actions.

[Mommydoc]

Wow Sinsin, this sounds very challenging.

There were some tough years, where I had no support from my H or anyone in the in-law family, and I knew something was up with SIL.

Identifying BPD and learning about the patterns is very empowering. You are finally able to depersonalize it, even when the pwBPD targets you. It sounds like you finally are receiving the validation you need from other family members and your husband, which is a tremendous relief and allows you to turn off all the self doubt that accumulates from being continuously gas lit and targeted.

Your story reminds me of my experiences with my husbands best friend (like a brother to him)and his wife.  When we were dating it was really important to me to build a positive relationship with both of them and no matter how hard I tried  things kept getting worse, with the biggest blow ups occurring in proximity to our wedding (in which BF was Best Man). My husband suffered as it was a huge distraction for Best Man who basically abandoned my husband on an important day. We tried to recover and rebuild after the wedding, but my  target status became more obvious as her mental health issues spiraled. Like your husband, my husband chose me and paid for it by losing his best friend. (Hoping your husband is able to salvage some relationship). A few years ago, we connected with BF who has remarried and shared his story, which was  tragic on many levels. He shared that his ex was convinced he was in love with me and had threatened to tell my husband  unless he promised to never see us again. It was almost 20 years later, but all of a sudden I understood why I was the target. Nothing ever happened between me and BF. My husband has no interest in picking the friendship up with her out of the picture, as he does not agree with his friends choice to walk away from their friendship.

 

  the only thing that made sense to me is that SD25 is competing for scarce resources. Everyone is a threat, some are more threatening than others. You happen to be very threatening, perhaps because your roles are similar. It becomes sibling rivalry times a thousand. If you get attention from family members, she is not getting that attention. In her mind, there isn't enough to go around, it's a finite supply

It’s hard to know exactly why you are the target, but whatever it is you can assume it is not rational. Your knowledge of her BPD helps you move forward and manage your responses and emotions. Her behavior will continue so you will need to practice all tools and focus on your self. You are very thoughtful and have good self awareness so I am confident you can manage this situation.

[khibomsis]

Hey Sinsin, it must have been hard being scapegoated all these years! No worries, you're with us now. We've got your back

I wanted to say I think it's jealousy. You are stable, SIL is not. Nobody knows that better than her, and it must have been hard living a lie all these years. She chose to take that out on you. PwBPD are different, just like the rest of us. Some are nice and some are nasty. I hear you saying she is jealous and a bully, and you have what she can never have: sanity. I mean, maybe if she goes to therapy and DBT for years and years, she will learn to control it and with time live a more stable life. But it doesn't sound like she is going that route anytime soon. It is just easier to blame you.

I would stay out of her way as much as possible, and guard your marriage well. If hers is imploding that will only add fuel to the fire.

[livednlearned]

Be careful when validating your SIL even when the validation is valid, as this may make you more of a target in the long run, because she craves validation.

This happened in my situation. With someone who is targeting you (quasi) covertly, it's possible to validate too much. Since your MIL is more or less the main node, and MIL is aware of the dynamics, you might not experience this as much within the family dynamic going forward.

In my family dynamic, I was validating SD25 while also getting kicked in the back by her. I think she was "winning" at whatever competition we were in, and my validation counted as "more winning," if that makes sense. Like I was a sucker because there was a lot of validation but no boundaries.

There's a chapter in the book You Don't Have to Make Everything All Better by the Lundstroms (excerpted on this site somewhere) about how to ask validating questions, which honestly, I don't know what I would've done without.

It makes it possible to get the benefits of validation without giving away the farm 

[Sinsin]

I guess the message I am getting is: "stay out of her way" and "keep contact to a minimum".

When you read how to manage pwBPD, the advice can sound a bit contradictory sometimes (at least, hard to understand, how to consistently implement all of the points in real-life interactions)
- always be genuine and truthful, but kind
- be validating, but have strict boundaries
- be validating/listening to pwBPD, but also minimize contact to make yourself less of a target
- ...
Seems like there is a very narrow margin of error in interactions with pwBPD.

And my (and H's) heart breaks that we know about the 'storm' BIL is dealing with, but it seems like all we can and should do is - nothing. BIL is a nice guy. It is hard to know he is suffering. But he is not reaching out to us, and seems like we shouldn't reach out to him either at this time.

[livednlearned]

Being a target can change the narrative a bit.

I have read many books that gave me tremendous compassion for pwBPD. It was important to learn from those books.

However, there are also books that will be more about you than the person with BPD.

If you are feeling victimized or confused or isolate or harmed in any way, focusing on boundaries may be more meaningful than, say, focusing on more advanced skills like SET (support, empathy, truth).

My pwBPD have taught me a tremendous amount and genuinely made me a better person, better spouse, better friend, better parent, better colleague. You will learn skills that can help all relationships, not just BPD ones. And as you become more skilled, you might become an important node in the family yourself, developing emotional leadership skills that help everyone else learn how to navigate these tough situations.

[Sinsin]

If you are feeling victimized or confused or isolate or harmed in any way, focusing on boundaries may be more meaningful than, say, focusing on more advanced skills like SET (support, empathy, truth).

For me the breaking point between "actively trying to make a friendly connection and ignoring any feelings that SIL actively dislikes me for some reason" and "live and let live + being actively vigilant of any covert and not-so-covert SIL shenanigans" was definitely when she tried to drive a wedge between me and my husband. That sucked. So, perhaps boundaries with pwBPD SIL, and strengthening my connection with H and in-laws is the best possible action for me right now.

But at the same time, I do feel very sorry for SIL suffering from BPD. And, having "won" this stupid game she's been playing with me and in-laws for years also makes me feel a bit guilty. I "won" by INTENTIONALLY and aggressively doing nothing, letting my husband and MIL come to their own conclusions (after YEARS), leading to absolute catastrophic meltdown of my SIL.

And, all I "gained" was
- "I told you so" to my husband that doubted me for Years
- a stronger trust bond with my husband
- some respect and understanding from my MIL (who, turns out, never fully bought SIL's story about me. Like "yea, SinSIn is a bit awkward, but rude and disrespectful? I don't know.")

But my SIL lost a LOT...
- Extra tension in her marriage when she split with my H
- MIL was a HUGE trust person for SIL, a "mother figure" SIL always wished she had (so I heard). And one day SIL found out that MIL trusts her 2 sons more than her. And SIL lost her trust person and credibility in MIL's eyes.
- Additionally, SIL found out MIL was talking behind her back to my BIL about needing to separate (due to aggression and SIL's volatile behavior) or, at the very least, needing to seek professional help (no diagnosis at that point, but it was evidently clear "something" is wrong with SIL).

I mean, I would freak out if I found out my MIL was nudging my husband to leave me or suspecting I'm "some kind of crazy". For someone with BPD to find out someone you consider a mother figure to turn on you like that must have been pretty devastating.

[Sinsin]

I guess I didn't realize that there are more roles in the theater of BPD. I am still very new to this. Until now I knew there is pwBPD and FP. And at some points the pwBPD 'splits' with FPs and people around them.

I didn't realize there can be personal Targets (most definitely me in this case). And as a "target", I guess my role, guidelines and expectations can be somewhat different than others.

I hope one day I can not be a "target" anymore?

[livednlearned]

I hope one day I can not be a "target" anymore?

"Target" comes from Bill Eddy's work about high-conflict people (HCP). He categories a high-conflict person as someone who has a target, who is a persuasive blamer, who recruits negative advocates, and who has a personality disorder. Someone who is HCP will have BPD (or be another cluster B) but not all pwBPD are high-conflict people.

I don't feel like I'm a target anymore, so it's definitely possible to un-target yourself. I feel like I've neutralized SD25, even though my nervous system is still activated by her.

It seems likely that MIL may become target #1 as she attempts to wedge your BIL. Family dynamics are complex and BPD is a complexifier so it's hard to know how things will play out exactly, but your SIL seems to lean toward high-conflict person and that can make things exhausting, and sometimes very sad, especially for the people in the closest ring of intimacy.

It might be a good idea to lay low and see how things evolve, and use periods of calm to learn.

Do you know what led to SIL getting her dx? Maybe it's not as hard to get diagnosed these days, but not long ago it seemed to be the opposite. It makes me wonder what led to her getting the dx, and how severe the behaviors were?

[Sinsin]

Do you know what led to SIL getting her dx? Maybe it's not as hard to get diagnosed these days, but not long ago it seemed to be the opposite. It makes me wonder what led to her getting the dx, and how severe the behaviors were?

I don't know the full story. In the last years I heard a few times that at some moments "SIL is seriously depressed" from MIL.

From what I have heard, (lying, manipulative behaviors and jealousy aside since most people can do these ) SIL has been suffering from self-harm, suicidal thoughts, and seemingly irrational explosive emotional "episodes". There might be other things that I don't know about. And I don't know what exactly caused it, but at some point BIL and MIL were conspiring and trying to figure out if SIL is suffering from anything else apart from chronic spells of depression, and pushing her to seek help.

There are family friends that work in mental health, so MIL might have reached out for any input, but that's just me guessing. I don't know the details of BIL plotting to separate or divorce, and what exactly happened, but at some point I was told that SIL has BPD, she is not working at the moment and is doing therapy, and things are overall "not great" in their household.

[livednlearned]

That adds up, as tragic as it is. My non expert observation is that self harm tends to create a faster track to dx, as does suicidal ideation. There are many stories here of loved ones being mis or under diagnosed, I suspect because many experts cannot see the full array of symptoms without family input. Only the most severe symptoms seem to set pwBPD up for dx.

It may be a mixed blessing that things were severe enough to warrant a dx. This brings some things out of the shadows, although how well treatment goes is hard to predict. There is an org called BPD NEA that runs a program called Famiky Connections. It’s volunteer run, and based on peer to peer support. I think we COvid they have begun doing more workgroups online but in the before years they were face to face. I remember they commented on how the efficacy of treatment can be very dependent on how the family responds, primarily thru the same skills you read about here, like validation, SET, radical acceptance. The workshop I attended referenced Valerie Port’s book Overcoming BPD and Shari Manning’s Loving Someone with BPD, so if you can’t find a workshop near you, there are accessible resources you can draw on, including this board.

Learning about BPD can be a very eye opening journey that does have silver linings, in terms of enriching your own understanding about mental injuries and what it means to be emotionally healthy.

[Sinsin]

Learning about BPD can be a very eye opening journey that does have silver linings, in terms of enriching your own understanding about mental injuries and what it means to be emotionally healthy.

If I am being frank, since I found out about the BPD diagnosis and did more research, I've felt quite deflated.

I have had my own experience with mental health issues in my early 20s. I learned a lot about myself, coping with anxiety and my own trauma and insecurities. And because of that experience with anxiety and depression, I was not-at-all discouraged when I found out SIL has depression. Because in my experience, even when you don't succeed the first time, or have reoccurring episodes of depression, a continuous effort with therapy and finding the right medication should help.

But, unlike depression, BPD seems to be a lot more ingrained in the personality. And there is no medication that "fixes" BPD. And, for a lot of people and families, BPD is be an ongoing issue for many years. And, it sounds emotionally exhausting to deal with.

^I know people with BPD suffer a lot more that I have or will. But, I am a bit frustrated, knowing the road to recovery is hard, long and less likely to succeed. As well as having a pleasant relationship with BIL (and SIL) is probably an unlikely distant dream.