Unnecessary worry?

[15years]

I'm playing Padel with my colleague for the third time in a month this Thursday. Previously it's been me, him and two other guys playing, but on Thursday, my colleagues girlfriend (whom I've never met before) will replace one of the guys. I'm afraid W will react with jealousy over this, so I haven't mentioned it to her yet. It's hard enough to arrange to go on sports events as it is, but so far she has accepted it.

Me and W have spoken several times about the fact that my colleague now has a girlfriend, he has been single for as long as I've known him, so it's kind of a big deal that I'm meeting her IRL, so I have to mention this to my wife.

How do I talk to her about this and not act nervously/off/weird? I kind of have to fake it that I'm not nervous but at the same time validate her jealousy, so without making a big deal out of it but not pretend that it isn't a problem for her. This is what I think she will expect of me. But is that validating the invalid...?


AND worth mentioning is that I too don't think it will be the same as playing with just guys, because she is an attractive woman... But it's not like I'll be drooling on pitch, I will be focusing on the game of course.


Am I worrying too much about this? I do think wife will find this inappropriate in many ways.

[Notwendy]

I think one boundary (straight) people use is - not being alone with a non related person of the opposite sex as that might lead to issues. This is a group event. If you were spending an evening out with her alone, that could be an issue.

However, another one if if this is guys only or a mixed company event - is this a usually out with the guys event? I can understand that- if my H was out with the guys golfing or some activity. But bringing a female partner along changes that. I would be wondering- if partners can come, why aren't I invited? By having one partner and not me, I think it would make me sad to think my H didn't invite me too.

Same with the other side. If I went "out with the girls" my H would not care but if partners were invited too, I think he'd feel left out if I didn't invite him.

I see where your mind went with all the sexual issues in your marriage but even if nothing happens between you and this woman- and I doubt anything is going to happen- that is not the only issue that can cause hurt feelings. If it's a mixed company event- then invite all the women. Even if they don't want to play, they can hang out together.

I think I know why the wives aren't usually invited to this- cause they need to stay home with the kids while you have the guys night out. This adds to being uninvited- but the nice looking single woman gets to come. Now turn this around- you may not mind watching the kids while she's out with the girls but now, there's a nice looking guy in the group and you don't get invited because you need to mind the kids. This isn't going to sit right with her and I think you can understand why.

It's not adultery to go to this event but it's inconsiderate in a way and that's not good for a relationship.

[15years]

I understand your point of view...

I do think it's a bit odd that my colleague is bringing his partner. She wanted him to arrange for her to participate, because she thought it was unfair that he got to practice and not her. He told me he needed to arrange the game to keep the peace.

Should I tell W that I understand if she has mixed feelings about one of the players bringing his partner? To sort of take the attention away from the male-female attraction subject.

However, I do think it's a bit old fashioned to see this as an issue. If my colleague was gay, and would bring his partner, would it be the same issue? Seems that it's all about jealousy and trust issues and not an issue about bringing significant others to a social event. At least in this case I think it's not.

My wife is not interested in sports, so why would I consider inviting her? My colleagues partner is interested in sports so she can come if we need a player. I know feelings isn't as simple as that but then again nothing is simple but somehow we need to make life work without complicating things.

Maybe I can ask her if she wants to come look/try playing, and we'll arrange a babysitter? She would probably say no or be disappointed with me anyway.

In my country the modern view is that you can be friends with someone of the opposite sex. I agree with that view but understand that there can be complications so one shouldn't be naive either. My wife seems to disagree with that view, but only when it comes to me. She often gets along better with men. I don't mind as long as obvious sexual intentions aren't involved.

[Riv3rW0lf]

However, I do think it's a bit old fashioned to see this as an issue. If my colleague was gay, and would bring his partner, would it be the same issue?

You are comparing apples and oranges here, because you yourself are not gay and you already acknowledged you were a bit uncomfortable because the woman in question is attractive. So part of you is aware of the issue there.

I was on your side for a long time, I believed I could be friend with men... With therapy, denial stopped :there was most always a sexual tension between me and my "friends". I always felt I got along better with men, but the water was blurred.

H is old fashioned. He is not friend with women. Not because I am jealous, not because I asked. It is from his own volition because he doesn't see the point. He told me himself when we started dating that if he ever develops a friendship with a woman, it is because he most likely wants her. didn't happen yet... He is friend with lesbians, but not with heterosexual women and doesn't leave himself be alone with them, except when required by his work.

This is a boundary he has for himself to keep the water clear. I now do the same. I am friend with women, when in front of a couple, I talk with the woman more. This is also a way to prevent any build-up in sexual tension, because those are often sneaky.

I agree with Notwendy that most likely, nothing will happen in a group setting. But I would also question why the other wives are not invited? And why does this woman wanted so badly to spend an evening playing with guys, and why other wives were never invited up to that point. Could she find another group to play with? Let his boyfriend have some men to men interaction? I love being only with women now. H says he likes being only with men too, and often feel the presence of a heterosexual women in a men setting like an intrusion. He feel he cannot act the exact same and he doesn't like that.

I come from a very liberal country too (Canada, and even more so, from La belle province), it is very liberal here... But overtime, I can see the liberal way does muddy the water often... Found myself in weird triangulations, friendships with sexual tension, all of a sudden the guy wanted more. I loved a good flirt too and to be brutally honest, I preferred the company of men, not because I liked sport and DnD (though I do like DnD), it's because I liked the attention and wanted to be the cool girlfriend. I liked being the only woman allowed in groups of men. I now see it was because of my daddy issues. Naturally speaking, now that I recognize the tension, I am much more comfortable with women, then I can be myself more, I don't need to watch for signs that the relationship is heading someplace else, I don't need to control my signals all the time.

Now that I gave my own gender a chance, I am much more comfortable.

This woman could also find other women to play with? Or other women should be invited to keep it fair. My view on it anyway.

What is not okay here on your wife's part though, is the double standard. I recognize that. She should hold herself to the same standards she expects from you... This is difficult though for a pwBPD...

But consider this other woman might also have daddy issues  I would look out for signs, if only out of curiosity at that point. See if my understanding of human primal needs and psychology holds true.

[Notwendy]

I think you may be thinking about this more literally. As long as clothes stay on and specific body parts don't touch each other, well what's the harm? There's a lot more to these interactions than just that one thing. It's possible to be emotionally hurtful or inconsiderate without any sexual intentions.

Whether one believes it's possible to be friends with the opposite sex, emotionally the social situation changes when it's mixed company. I am sure you are aware of this- guys behave a bit differently when it's "the guys" and so do we. I also don't think it matters if someone in the group is gay or not.

Personally it would seem like a red flag that this guy buddy of your is brining this woman in to the guy group. To me it seems she doesn't let him go out with the guys on their own- why does she have to tag along. It's going to change the group dynamics. I'd feel it was an imposition.

An emotionally secure woman would let the guys have their group and vice versa. Think about this in reverse. Your wife is going out with the girls. They are going to have their own discussions ( probably talk about you guys )- kids, schools, gossip. I know I am stereotyping but it's what happens when I am in a group of women. Now do you really want to be there too? I don't want to hang out with my H's guy friends and he'd say the same for me and women friends.

Because it changes the dynamics, I think it is inconsiderate to invite one female partner and not the others. It's not cheating but it can be seen as hurtful to not be invited to a mixed get together when other partner (s) are. Your wife may think "why is it that her partner wanted her there and mine didn't?". Does he love her more than my H loves me?

I am always a bit wary when someone invades the "all guy" group.

[15years]

I have been thinking a lot about your replies. I have little time to write, but I wanted to pop in and say that I do understand your arguments and you're right in many ways, but I still don't agree. I think that is making us less capable than we are. I'm not attracted to all females that I enjoy talking to. But I agree that it's probably inappropriate to hang out alone with someone you're attracted to.

Would be interesting to hear more opinions about this.


Btw. I mentioned this to my wife and she didn't react at all. Maybe she was just distracted with other worries. It could have been my strategy that worked too. I asked her if she would be interested in playing, that my friend would bring his girlfriend so maybe I can bring her sometime too.

[kells76]

It could have been my strategy that worked too. I asked her if she would be interested in playing, that my friend would bring his girlfriend so maybe I can bring her sometime too.

I'm leaning towards thoughts from the other posters -- when a straight adult gal joins a group of straight adult guys and has a "I'm just one of the guys" vibe, I get suspicious that she has an underlying agenda. That being said, nothing about her joining was under your control. So in a sense, it's not a problem for you, except for the fact that you know that your W has strong and excessive reactions.

So I agree with you -- I think your new choice of strategy (to be not only open and straightforward, but to remain firm in doing your thing) was wise in this case.

In the past, it seems like you would have either tried to hide it, or would have stopped going to please your wife.

Now, you are combining being straightforward about what's going on with a firm resolution that you aren't changing what you're doing.

This just struck me now -- I wonder if in the past, combining "I should be totally open with my W" with a next move of "and so after I tell her, I'll stop doing/saying/watching X" inadvertently fueled the flames of her paranoia. "He would never have stopped doing XYZ after telling me unless there was really an issue there"

Combining appropriate honesty with kind yet firm resolution that you are doing what you are doing, may in a nonintuitive way help not add fuel to her fire.

Asking if she wants to join is also wise, because it points to what is a real choice on the table. You quitting to make W happy is not a real choice and will not be an option. However, your W is an individual who can make her own choices. It is a real choice on the table for her to decide "I can go, or I can not go, it's up to me".

That was very appropriate to put a real choice back on your W without compromising your values.

Nice job.

[15years]

Thank you kells

I have in fact felt more confident in dealing with situations recently. In this case, I'm glad I consulted you here, it may have made a difference.


I do agree that it is a little suspicious that the girl is joining us boys tomorrow. My friend seems a bit nervous about it too, and it's a little unlike him. It'll be interesting to observe.


This just struck me now -- I wonder if in the past, combining "I should be totally open with my W" with a next move of "and so after I tell her, I'll stop doing/saying/watching X" inadvertently fueled the flames of her paranoia. "He would never have stopped doing XYZ after telling me unless there was really an issue there"
Probably true, she has even told me something similar herself.

[Notwendy]

I agree - one isn't attracted to every member of the opposite sex ( or same sex if gay) but it's still possible to be socially and emotionally insensitive without any attraction.

If the event is "out with the guys" then it should be that.

If the event is "out with the guys and their significant others" then it should be extended to all significant others or someone is going to get their feelings hurt.

I think it's good you gave your wife the choice, even if she doesn't want to go, it's the polite thing to do.

Yup. red flag  suspicious that the girl is joining us boys tomorrow. My friend seems a bit nervous about it too, and it's a little unlike him. It'll be interesting to observe.

I see it as a boundary issue. If she can't be OK with him going out with the boys-if she can't stay out of all corners of his world-  that could be trouble.