Appropriate response or next steps for uBPD mother who wants to cancel flight

[zanyapple]

Hi everyone, thank you for your ongoing responses to my post. This community has been very helpful to me because it has helped me navigate my life with my UBPD mother unlike all other communities where they tell you to just go NC.

So my parents are visiting me here in the US soon. As mentioned in my previous post, it's an all-expense paid trip by me which my mother got all furious about. As days have passed, she has slowly accepted my boundaries, but she now has another problem.

For many years, my mother and father have always had a toxic relationship and she always puts me in between them.

Recently, she called because she and my dad had a fight and my dad apparently cussed at her. Now she wants me to defer my dad's flight so they don't visit together, but I don't want them visiting separately. It's too stressful for me if she were to come alone. It's either I cancel hers (which I can't do otherwise she'll sow horror on my dad) or cancel them both.

To cancel, it'll cost me $400 per person and she knows this. I'm fine if I have to cancel, but what I hate is she was the one who asked if they can spend the holidays here only for her to nonchalantly ask me to cancel. She even said, "I will cancel my flight. I dare you."

What do you think should be my response or the appropriate next steps? Maybe it's better to cancel them all together since all red flags seem to be going off?

She was also telling me that she feels bad that I don't listen to her problems and she listens to mine. The difference is that while I may sometimes share with her my problems, at the end of the day, I find solutions to them. With her problem with my dad, this has been ongoing for 40 years and I hate hearing it. Never a week goes by that I don't hear about this. I also really hate her tone - when I pick up the phone, she always sounds distressed, like on my brink of crying. I need for her to collect herself first then call me.

[Notwendy]

Is there a deadline to cancel the tickets ? If it’s not urgent - I’d do nothing. She’s had her rage - tomorrow she’ll act like it never happened - then there will be something else. If you react then you are being pulled all over in their waves. If you don’t - the waves just go up and down and you stay put. If you don’t have to do anything soon with the tickets -leave them alone.

If she cancels - that’s her doing but you aren’t responsible for her spats with your Dad. Either they put their big kid pants on and visit as planned or they don’t. You don’t have to fix this for them .

[Methuen]

I’m totally with NotWendy on this one.  

Sounds like she’s having a toddler temper tantrum.  If you have the time, I would wait to see if it blows over.  At the end of the day, they want to spend Christmas with you or they wouldn’t have agreed to the tickets in the first place.

If the deadline has passd and the $400 penalty is already in effect, I would still do nothing.  If they want to cancel, let them cancel.  The tickets are in their name.  Then it’s on them.  They are adults. They can cancel their own tickets if that is what they think is best. If they actually did that ( which might be unlikely) then you could follow up with the airline.

I think its likely this is pure drama and theatrics.  The BPD  need for a crisis.  Stay out of it is my advice.  Don’t feed the flames.

When  Christmas is over they’ll probably say they want to come again next year.  Be careful NOT to commit to that.

That’s sort of how it goes sometimes with BPD.  You might as well float on top of the waves rather than get caught in the undertow.

As for not listening to her problems- oh brother.  They always have to be a victim.  I would suggest not sharing personal info including problems with her, but don’t tell her you’re doing that as this would make it worse.  Simply stop sharing your problems with her.

[Notwendy]

Before I understood BPD, I would fall into these kinds of things and react to my mother's requests/demands/behaviors. The result is that both parents would align together and be angry at me. Now, understanding Karpman triangle dynamics, I could see this happening.

Mom: I refuse to travel with your father. YOU need to change the flights. ( can you see how she's handing you the problem between her and your father- it's not your problem- she's unloading responsibility for it on you. My usual response would have been to do it as we all had the role of caretaking BPD mother and were expected to comply with her, but I see the pattern better now)

What I used to do: React emotionally. Take it personally. My parents are so inconsiderate. I gave them tickets for Christmas and they are doing this. Then I cancel the tickets and tell them not to come.

Mom in Victim mode to Dad: Can you believe it? Our daughter cancelled our tickets. I can't believe she'd do such a thing. I was so looking forward to Christmas with her.

Dad in Rescuer mode: Defends Mom, gets angry at me. The two of them remain angry that their daughter did such a thing.

Me now: Danger: Triangle Ahead! Their argument is not my responsibility. This is their trip. Do not react emotionally. Respond to mother: I would like to see you both this Christmas. I hope you can work this out. ( and make a note to not buy them tickets again- if they want to visit, let them work that out with you and buy them-so if they were to cancel the tickets, it would not involve your money)

Then you disengage. She may react poorly, after all, she's used to unloading her feelings on you. But you don't have to take on that role. Also, I agree stop sharing your problems with her. Do not tell her that, just do it. I am selective in what I share with my BPD mother.

[GaGrl]

I will weigh in and agree with the advice thus far. You have purchased the tickets as a gift, and your expectation is that they work out whatever issues they have with each other and show up as arranged.

If they cancel the tickets, so be it. The consequence to them is that you will no longer purchase tickets for them.

In other words, stay off the triangle -- let them make their own (sometimes bad) decisions.

This means not discussing their problems with them Don't get drawn in. And this means not sharing as much of your own personal problems -- find another confidant. Your mother is not capable of equal sharing and will use it against you.

[zachira]

You have been given some really good suggestions here by other members. Do what works best for you. In my experiences with many disordered family members, sometimes we have to be proactive, and sometimes we have to just sit back and let the disordered family members be their own worst enemy. If it works for you, just to cancel your mother's tickets because you really don't want to see her at Christmas, do so. There is really no one way to solve this problem, and no matter what you do, your mother is going to be who she is.

[zanyapple]

Thank you everyone for the sound advice. I don't know why I keep falling into her trap, but I have to say, I've gotten better at it with the help of everyone in this board. She is very irritating, but I don't feel as emotionally affected as I was before.

Do you know what my mother was trying to say when she said, "I dare you"? I mean, she knows that if she decides to fly or not, I've already paid for the tickets so I've already shelled out the money - ie, the outcome would be the same for me, so it's not like it's going to change anything. Or does she mean this like I'm supposed to miss her if she doesn't visit (because I won't)?

In the future, I'm never going to pay for her flight again, but is this something I communicate to her now? Or do I just bring this up in the future (possibly next year) if she says she wants to visit again?

[zachira]

One of the hardest parts of dealing with a BPD mother in my experiences, is you really can't ever share how you feel with her without her finding some ways to make things worse. It is a one way street with the communication. Most mothers with BPD are not capable of hearing anything that does not fit with their distorted reality whatever that is.
Glad to hear you are not affected as much as before with how your mother behaves. On this site, most of us are a work in progress, continuing to learn how to be less affected with as much intensity or as long by the behaviors of the disordered people in our lives as we continue to experience more quality time with the people who do treat us with love and respect, including ourselves.

[zanyapple]

Re not buying them flights again in the future, I can already anticipate what would happen.

Mother: I'd like to visit my grandchild this year (2023), but we don't have any money to buy flights.

Me: I'm not buying your flights anymore considering what happened next year when you almost cancelled your flight (I say "almost" because I'm 90% sure she will not cancel her trip. I know she loves to travel because she can tell her friends and relatives she went overseas. This is some sort of a status boost for her)

Mother: Well, I didn't cancel my flight, so why is this still an issue? Why do you like unraveling the past? I thought we've already moved on from that?

So with her response in mind, I feel like I should tell her now that I'm not buying her flights anymore. What do you think?

[zachira]

If telling your mother you are not buying her flights anymore works for you than do it, just don't have any expectations that your mother will respond in any ways that are soothing for you. What counts is how you feel inside when doing this, and if this helps you to move on. At one point, I told my NPD sister I wanted nothing more to do with her because of the kind of person she is. Since then, all contact with her has been through our lawyers or her flying monkeys. It gave me some closure to do this, though my sister is the same as ever, on the war path to eradicate me from the Earth. What counts is what this does for you, to do this.

[Couscous]

She was also telling me that she feels bad that I don't listen to her problems and she listens to mine.

As unfortunate as this is, it’s usually best to not discuss one’s problems with a BPD mother.

Also, unless you discuss your problems with your father with her, this is an apples to oranges comparison. What she is doing is called triangulating, and it’s never OK for a parent to complain even to an adult child, about their issues with the child’s other parent. If you would like some extremely helpful information on how to handle triangulation, I recommend the book, Dance of Anger for that. Just today I copied some lines out of that book word-for-word in an email to my mother. I was glad that she emailed me, because I never would have been able to grab the book and read those lines to her in the middle of a phone call and if I do attempt to have an arms length relationship with her I am going to only communicate via email.

Another line you could try during a phone conversation is, “Gee Mom, it sounds like you and Dad are having a hard time. What are you going to do about it?”. That will likely leave her speechless.  

[Notwendy]

Re not buying them flights again in the future, I can already anticipate what would happen.

Mother: I'd like to visit my grandchild this year (2023), but we don't have any money to buy flights.

Me: I'm not buying your flights anymore considering what happened next year when you almost cancelled your flight

Mother: Well, I didn't cancel my flight, so why is this still an issue? Why do you like unraveling the past? I thought we've already moved on from that?

So with her response in mind, I feel like I should tell her now that I'm not buying her flights anymore. What do you think?

No no no! Look at this conversation. Your mother is taking victim perspective and putting you in rescuer position.

"I want to visit you but don't have the money" --- ie- you have to solve this issue for her and buy the ticket.

You say no. That puts you in persecutor position. Your mother will take victim position "my terrible daughter doesn't want me to visit her". Dad will take rescuer position and get angry at you. The two of them will align against you. They feel better together when there's a common enemy and they aren't out of line with each other.

You are playing right along with this. Not your fault as it's your "normal". I have been in this triangle so many times with my parents. BPD mother takes victim position, Dad as rescuer, and other people become their common persecutor.

Do not tell your mother anything. Actions speak louder than words. You just don't do it. When she calls and says " I want to visit but don't have the money to buy tickets"- that is her issue. You don't have to solve this for her. Your task is to stay neutral. Do not bring up anything she has done. This only makes things worse.

Neutral replies could be "I understand mom, it's not in our budget either" ( even if you could afford the tickets, it doesn't have to be in your budget) then just let that go. She may react but she doesn't need more of an explanation than this.

Some time ago, I planned a get together for my mother with some of her friends and family.  At the last minute, she decided she was mad at me and she wasn't going to attend. I was upset and said so. That was a mistake because she reacted with verbal abuse. I should have stayed neutral. I then pulled it together and told her I was going to do it anyway the food was paid for (by me) and people said they were coming. She then decided to attend. She didn't thank me or say anything nice about it.

What did I learn from this? I learned that if I spend money or make plans for something nice for my mother, I can not expect her to follow though with them or be appreciative of it. If I do something like that, I also have to understand that it's with zero expectations and at my own choice. If this results in my feeling resentful, then I should not do it.

Your reasons for not buying plane tickets again are not because of your mother. It's because doing this can result in you feeling bad and resentful. It's a boundary, a form of being kind to yourself to not do this again. You value your money and don't want to see your money taken for granted or unappreciated. Then don't do it. This is a decision you would make for you. You don't need to explain it to your mother.

[zachira]

Sometimes, though not most of the time, you can say in a brief sentence how you feel about something, and then end the conversation with the disordered person. What you are saying is for you, and to set boundaries; it is not to wait to hear a hurtful dysregulated response from the disordered person, as you end the conversation immediately. We can't always eat our feelings and stay neutral. Sometimes setting a boundary, like I am not going to buy you anymore plane tickets and than ending the conversation, can be helpful in maintaining healthier boundaries with the the disordered people in our lives, and it can help to process the feelings and move on. The boundary is for you, not for the person you are setting it with.

[zanyapple]

Neutral replies could be "I understand mom, it's not in our budget either" ( even if you could afford the tickets, it doesn't have to be in your budget) then just let that go. She may react but she doesn't need more of an explanation than this.

Some time ago, I planned a get together for my mother with some of her friends and family.  At the last minute, she decided she was mad at me and she wasn't going to attend. I was upset and said so. That was a mistake because she reacted with verbal abuse. I should have stayed neutral. I then pulled it together and told her I was going to do it anyway the food was paid for (by me) and people said they were coming. She then decided to attend. She didn't thank me or say anything nice about it.

This is a very good example Notwendy. If I do something for her, I need to not expect anything in return. It's sometimes tough. You almost have to train yourself not to feel.

Maybe she'll actually hate me more because I know she thinks I'm too passive most of the time. I also know she hates it when she asks for advice and all I say is, "it's up to you." I learned this over time because if the outcome is not what she desires, I'm sure she will blame me for it, even though ultimately, it was her decision.

They visited a few years ago and I remember telling her to make sure to prepare presents for my in-laws. My in-laws are super big on Christmas and they always have a present for everyone.

Me: You should prepare presents for Jean, Johnny, Kim, and Michelle. They're super big on Christmas, so I'm sure they'll have a ton of presents for you and dad. (I said this to her multiple times)

Mother: I already got a couple. Who cares! This is enough. I'm not buying any more presents.

On Christmas day, she receives a ton of presents from my in-laws. After the celebration, she then told me.

Mother: I didn't know I'd receive this much! It's so embarrassing! I only got them a couple. Why didn't you tell me to get more?

Dad: What? She told you many times!

Me: Yes, I told you many times! I know you remember me telling you!

Mother is silent, but still literally tries to hold her head up high and gives me the side eye.

Another thing that I learned from her is gifts for her should be monetary. In the past, I've given her something and every time she's upset at me, she returns them (discreetly). For example, I found the tumbler that I gave her one Christmas under our kitchen sink. My husband thinks this is very petty, by the way. However, if I give her money, it is guaranteed she will keep it no matter how upset she is.

Apologies for asking this again, but what is everyone's thoughts on her telling me "I'm cancelling my flight. I dare you."?

What does "I dare you" mean? Dare me to what? She knows that I'd already spent the money. What I told her was that flights were non-refundable, so the outcome for me would been the same whether she chooses to fly or not. Or does she think that I'll actually be sad and disappointed if she isn't coming (because I won't be)?

[zanyapple]

Sometimes, though not most of the time, you can say in a brief sentence how you feel about something, and then end the conversation with the disordered person.

I really want to do this, it's just really tough. She is relentless, so she will dial me until her fingers break. I can block her, but I know she will reach out to my husband or perhaps anyone else in my family or even friends. What I do know is that if I'm passive, this is what she hates. While I may not be able to fully express myself (which sucks), it gives me the upper hand.

[Couscous]

If I do something for her, I need to not expect anything in return.

What I took away from NW's post is that you might need to stop doing things for your mother, period.

[Methuen]

what is everyone's thoughts on her telling me "I'm cancelling my flight. I dare you."?

What does "I dare you" mean? Dare me to what? She knows that I'd already spent the money. What I told her was that flights were non-refundable, so the outcome for me would been the same whether she chooses to fly or not. Or does she think that I'll actually be sad and disappointed if she isn't coming (because I won't be)?

Honestly, you might be overthinking it.

Do you remember being in the playground in primary school, and sometimes some kid would tell you or someone else to do something and then say "I dare you"?  It was a challenge.  It made them feel powerful.  Having power makes them feel better about themselves. Even more so if the poor victim was weak enough to actually do it.  Now the bully feels stronger.

Your mom is like this child who is saying "I dare you" because she wants a challenge.  If you react, she feels more powerful.

Not reacting, is a means to take away their power, and stay out of the drama.

If you spend a lot of time trying to figure out her logic (there often isn't any), she is going to rent way too much space in your head.

In the beginning, I was like this too...always trying to understand.  In my experience, it's a waste of time because they are largely emotional and irrational, and are just trying to get a reaction.

My advice is still to "let it go" and blow over.  If you answer her back or even ask her what she meant, you are being sucked into that black hole.

Stay neutral, and stay out of the hole, and you will probably feel more centered and more in control of your life.  

Just my thoughts.

[Notwendy]

Apologies for asking this again, but what is everyone's thoughts on her telling me "I'm cancelling my flight. I dare you."?

What does "I dare you" mean? Dare me to what?

The only time I have heard someone say "I dare you" is when we were kids. Kids on the playground. And the dare is something scary or something we might get in trouble for doing.  "I dare you to jump off the slide" "I dare you to go pull Sally's pony tail". Dares could be a child's game but they aren't always harmless. If it's a game, the other kid can say no. Sometimes it's done by a bully.

Your mother is acting like the 5th grade bully on the playground. "Dare" is a set up and there will be consequences for you either way. You are being bullied.

Forgive me for pointing this out, but I can see this because I am in the same situation. You have been raised to feel obligated to your mother and at the same time tolerate her treating you worse than she would any social acquaintance with no consequence to her for her behavior.

Buying a plane ticket for someone is a generous gesture. The social expectation is that the recipient is appreciative and also considerate. There is none of this from your mother. If she had done this to someone else, the consequence would be that this person would not do this again.

People learn how to treat others from the natural consequences of their behavior. Eventually, nobody wants to play with the playground bully who doesn't play nice. The bully has no friends. The bully learns that if they want others to play with them, they need to play nice.

Somehow, this idea got suspended in our family for BPD mother. She has learned she can treat us however she wants with no consequences. We feel obligated. In a sense, we are obligated to not treat her poorly, or tell her off in a mean way. That's our value- to treat her with respect for the relationship. But this doesn't mean we have to tolerate her behavior. We didn't learn that growing up and because we tolerated it, she expects it.

I did change that part and the consequences were that it impacted my relationship with my father, who's main role was to be my mother's rescuer. So there may be consequences to you for having boundaries but we also consider this in relation to not having boundaries. I choose to have some boundaries with my mother.

My mother sees things from victim perspective. Yours does too "you didn't tell me to buy Christmas gifts" is an example of that. Why does someone take victim perspective? Because a victim isn't accountable for what happened. Your mother didn't buy enough gifts but she's not being accountable for that, she's acting like the victim of not being told and making you the reason. ( even if you did tell her).

Whenever I made an overt gesture or statement to my parents that has any implication of BPD mother in any way, it was jumping on the triangle as persecutor and my mother took victim perspective. "I dare you" is a set up for this dynamic. It's a double bind. If you don't cancel the tickets, you lose what you paid. If you do cancel them, you become the terrible daughter who cancelled the tickets. Either way, there's no loss to your mother.

It's your money but if you are able to take the gamble of losing the money for the ticket- I'd wait and do nothing. What is the deadline for cancelling- even with the penalty? Would you get any money back or do you lose the whole thing? I think if it got to the deadline for cancelling and I could get some money back, I'd probably do it, just to not lose more. There is a chance your mother may decide to come before that. The better thing to do is to react as little as possible and just take whatever action you choose.

The next step is not do it again.

I sent my mother flowers a while back. She called the company and said they were unacceptable and they sent her another one. I have brought food and she throws it out. I still send her a gift- for her birthday or holidays but with the understanding that she may do anything she wants with it.

I will not plan an event for her like I did, because that would include her cooperating with the plans and I can't expect that. I learned that and the consequence is that I won't do it again. If one of her friends planned a get together for her and she didn't show up, that friend wouldn't do it again either. She knows that. She was recently invited to someone's home for Thanksgiving and couldn't attend. (this wasn't for her but she was included) and she sent that friend a nice bouquet of flowers. Here is an example of her knowing that she needs to be polite to her friends but not to me.

Now, if we were out to lunch at a restaurant, I would probably pick up the tab for us both, as I still would like to do something nice for her, but if this were the situation, she'd have accepted the invitation and followed through on attending. I will not have ordered food in advance, as that comes with an expectation she would come to lunch. This would be something I could do that is nice for her that doesn't depend on her cooperation.


Your mother will not respect your boundaries. You have to be the one to do that. Protecting your money is a boundary. Your mother doesn't respect your money. If she bought the plane tickets, I bet she'd be more careful with it but she has nothing to lose by cancelling it if it's your money. The only way this will stop is by you not buying tickets anymore. If they want to see you they can make travel plans themselves.

People prioritize their money. If they don't think they have to buy tickets, that won't be on their budget. If they really wanted to visit, they might start saving for the ticket. If they truly can't afford it but stretch their budget to come see you, once they are there, you could choose to reimburse them if you wanted to do that. But they need to be responsible for their own tickets and what they do with them.

Why are there cancellation fees? Because, the airlines are a business and if people could cancel with no penalty, it would hurt their business so they have a charge penalty to keep people from doing that unless necessary. If you continue to do this for them, you have removed this disincentive to cancel and so have removed the natural consequences of this expectation.

In your family, the normal social expectations that people have for each other have been disconnected from consequences for your mother. She can be the bully on the playground for your family and still expect others to play with her and let her take their toys, even if she breaks them. So she has no reason to stop being a bully, and she won't stop. If you don't want to be bullied, you are the one who has to have boundaries. This doesn't mean you bully in return. It means you stop letting her play with your toys and you decide when you are available to play or not.