Does this sound like BPD

[SaltyDawg]

I should break the loop and just be okay with her staying with her ex fiancé and their kids. Not only does she have untreated bdp and a fiancé she apparently bounces back and forward from. She also has two young children with the guy. There’s tons of reasons I should just move on and pursue a healthier relationship. The problem is I’m very much in love with this girl unfortunately. The time we spend together made me happier then I’ve been in a long long time. It’s hard to let that go.

You know that you need to break the loop.

You also describe what is known as the push-pull dynamic of the trauma bond with her.  For this reason alone, talk to an individual therapist for yourself, so you can effectively deal with this issue.

Take care, and be safe.

[jaded7]

I’m very curious which of our stories were nearly identical haha. It’s strangely comforting when I see others have similar experiences to mine with their bpd partners. It reminds me I’m not alone in dealing with this nightmare.
That’s the thing I really love about these forums. It reminds me I’m not the bad person she painted me as for no reason. I’m not overly clingy or “constantly up her ass” as she put it. Or made to feel unworthy of her despite always being real with her and treating her right.

I know, these forums are very validating, especially because we don't trust ourselves. Their behavior is confusing, we get told we screwed up (but don't know how, or why the thing we did is a huge screw up), they are hot and cold...all leaves us wondering what's true, what's not.

For the things that are identical in my relationship: telling me she loved me very early, pushing hard for the relationship early, getting really angry/offended at things I couldn't even grasp were 'bad', explosive temper, carefully wording texts or communications so as to not make her mad (walking on eggshells), the 'testing' (in my case she was home with a recovery from tooth surgery and, after I took off work all morning the day to drive her home, go to the pharmacy, make lunch with her son, when I called her and texted multiple times later that day and the next asking her what she needs, how she's feeling, what can I bring her, she 'turned off her phone because she was so mad at me' and didn't talk to me for several days (I was supposed to "know what she needed/wanted without asking" and "her friends know what to do without asking", the overreaction when you forgot the date but still sent her a text showing you missed her.

Did I miss anything? Oh my gosh these things are hard.

[yellowbutterfly]

All of these conversations resonate so much for me too. I agree, Gutt3rSnipe, you are not the only one dealing with this; we've all been through some version of it with a pwBPD. Sad that we can all commiserate and understand, but it's also beautiful at times to know I am not alone, crazy, or bad either.

My stbx H did everything you, jaded7, and others describe and more. It's almost comical how alike some pwBPD are! The story was always he was a victim and the exes were abusive. In reality, it was he who was extremely abusive. It sounds like a familiar story with your partner.

As Salty mentions, read up on trauma bonds or talk to your T. This research helped me understand what I was going through.

What are you doing to take care of your mental health in all this?  I know I really struggled to take care of myself in my experience with my stbx H uBPD. Though, once I started doing things for myself and getting reintegrated into self-care, I started to have some clarity.

[Gutt3rSnipe]

I know, these forums are very validating, especially because we don't trust ourselves. Their behavior is confusing, we get told we screwed up (but don't know how, or why the thing we did is a huge screw up), they are hot and cold...all leaves us wondering what's true, what's not.

For the things that are identical in my relationship: telling me she loved me very early, pushing hard for the relationship early, getting really angry/offended at things I couldn't even grasp were 'bad', explosive temper, carefully wording texts or communications so as to not make her mad (walking on eggshells), the 'testing' (in my case she was home with a recovery from tooth surgery and, after I took off work all morning the day to drive her home, go to the pharmacy, make lunch with her son, when I called her and texted multiple times later that day and the next asking her what she needs, how she's feeling, what can I bring her, she 'turned off her phone because she was so mad at me' and didn't talk to me for several days (I was supposed to "know what she needed/wanted without asking" and "her friends know what to do without asking", the overreaction when you forgot the date but still sent her a text showing you missed her.

Did I miss anything? Oh my gosh these things are hard.

Wow..See, what your partner did in the tooth surgery situation is just irrational and petty. You go out of your way to help and be there for them and they reward you with anger and the silent treatment. I’ve noticed dating her she’d often would put me into impossible no win situations, then gaslight me about it later. Similar to what yours did.

Mine had the nerve to call me selfish (amongst other things) because I was “annoying” her constantly about her ex. This was about an hour after I just voluntarily loaned her money for stuff she needed. You bend over for them and they treat you like sh*t as your reward. If you’re being painted black you can’t do anything right in their eyes apparently.



Did I miss anything? Oh my gosh these things are hard.
[/quote]

All of these conversations resonate so much for me too. I agree, Gutt3rSnipe, you are not the only one dealing with this; we've all been through some version of it with a pwBPD. Sad that we can all commiserate and understand, but it's also beautiful at times to know I am not alone, crazy, or bad either.

My stbx H did everything you, jaded7, and others describe and more. It's almost comical how alike some pwBPD are! The story was always he was a victim and the exes were abusive. In reality, it was he who was extremely abusive. It sounds like a familiar story with your partner.

As Salty mentions, read up on trauma bonds or talk to your T. This research helped me understand what I was going through.

What are you doing to take care of your mental health in all this?   I know I really struggled to take care of myself in my experience with my stbx H uBPD. Though, once I started doing things for myself and getting reintegrated into self-care, I started to have some clarity.

It’s nice to know I’m not alone. Honestly, after this relationship ended I’ve never felt so alone in my entire life. Family and friends couldn’t understand what I was going through so I’m happy I found these forums and all of you responding!

I’m so sorry you’ve had to go through similar things in your relationship. Being mistreated and or ditched for reasons that aren’t normally a big deal to a heathy person is incredibly stressful. Hell, a lot of the reasons they devalue, discard, and abuse aren’t even grounded in reality..

As to what I’m doing to help myself get through this. I’m in the process of getting a mental health screening and talk to a therapist. In the meantime, I’m going to check out those books that you and some others on here suggested. Anything to try and make sense of this mess I’ve got myself into with her.

[Pook075]

I appreciate your concern pook! I’m hoping clarity comes soon because this situation is effecting my mental pretty bad..Okay, there’s a big thing I didn’t mention for some dumb reason. I guess I was embarrassed on this situation seeming even more hopeless for me. In hindsight I don’t know why as I know you guys only want to help..

She has two young kids (2 year old and 3 year old) with this guy, her ex fiancé. That’s why they are in closer contact than they would be otherwise. They split time and have days were they both are together with the kids. I underestimated how much her children, and by proxy her ex would affect this relationship. I know, naive and short sighted on my part. The fact she had kids never bothered me, only that he would always be in picture as a result. That’s definitely something I should’ve taken into MUCH stronger consideration way back when I first found out. I could’ve saved myself a lot of pain and heartbreak. Spilled milk now..
 
I should break the loop and just be okay with her staying with her ex fiancé and their kids. Not only does she have untreated bdp and a fiancé she apparently bounces back and forward from. She also has two young children with the guy. There’s tons of reasons I should just move on and pursue a healthier relationship. The problem is I’m very much in love with this girl unfortunately. The time we spend together made me happier then I’ve been in a long long time. It’s hard to let that go.

Okay, that makes more sense- they have kids so they have to communicate often.  I'm so sorry, my friend, but it doesn't feel like it's going to turn out the way you want it to.

Your mental health is the most important thing in your life (well, besides food and water, LOL).  Talk to a counselor and work through your feelings.  Posting here often helps a ton too.  I'm here for you if you ever need to talk or just rant.

[jaded7]

Wow..See, what your partner did in the tooth surgery situation is just irrational and petty. You go out of your way to help and be there for them and they reward you with anger and the silent treatment. I’ve noticed dating her she’d often would put me into impossible no win situations, then gaslight me about it later. Similar to what yours did.

Mine had the nerve to call me selfish (amongst other things) because I was “annoying” her constantly about her ex. This was about an hour after I just voluntarily loaned her money for stuff she needed. You bend over for them and they treat you like sh*t as your reward. If you’re being painted black you can’t do anything right in their eyes apparently.



D

The eye surgery thing was SO confusing to me! I truly, truly wanted to take care of her, I would have done anything for her. I was operating under the assumption that if I asked her what she needed, what I could do, she would tell me. Instead she just said that everything was fine, she didn't need anything, she's just resting in bed. I started to then suggest things she might want-like playing some kind of game- because I sensed that she was testing me...although I couldn't put it into words then. Days later when she would finally speak to me again, I reminded her that I had asked her what she needed many times, and I had even suggested things I could do for her...in addition to what I wrote above about her telling me "her friends didn't need to ask" etc, she mocked the things I had suggested!

I'm glad that my experiences help you feel less alone. Everybody who shares here makes me feel understood and less alone too. It's amazing to me how long it has taken me to start to come to some understanding that none of this is normal.

A book I highly recommend is The Verbally Abusive Relationship, it's a great way of understanding people who need to control and have power over you. I keep it right next to my bed and will grab it to just read a few pages in those times I'm feeling bad and confused. It really is very, very clear.

[PeteWitsend]

The eye surgery thing was SO confusing to me! I truly, truly wanted to take care of her, I would have done anything for her. I was operating under the assumption that if I asked her what she needed, what I could do, she would tell me. Instead she just said that everything was fine, she didn't need anything, she's just resting in bed. I started to then suggest things she might want-like playing some kind of game- because I sensed that she was testing me...although I couldn't put it into words then. Days later when she would finally speak to me again, I reminded her that I had asked her what she needed many times, and I had even suggested things I could do for her...in addition to what I wrote above about her telling me "her friends didn't need to ask" etc, she mocked the things I had suggested!

I'm glad that my experiences help you feel less alone. Everybody who shares here makes me feel understood and less alone too. It's amazing to me how long it has taken me to start to come to some understanding that none of this is normal.

A book I highly recommend is The Verbally Abusive Relationship, it's a great way of understanding people who need to control and have power over you. I keep it right next to my bed and will grab it to just read a few pages in those times I'm feeling bad and confused. It really is very, very clear.

I'll check that book out, never heard of it before.

I'm in a relationship now that seems to fit that description, although she doesn't check many of the boxes for BPD.  I do know she has some childhood abandonment issues, and she does seem to want to use anger and abuse to control situations, but unlike my last BPD relationship, this one had a "honeymoon period" that lasted up until we moved in together, and over the last year and a half has gotten progressively worse.

[jaded7]

I'll check that book out, never heard of it before.

I'm in a relationship now that seems to fit that description, although she doesn't check many of the boxes for BPD.  I do know she has some childhood abandonment issues, and she does seem to want to use anger and abuse to control situations, but unlike my last BPD relationship, this one had a "honeymoon period" that lasted up until we moved in together, and over the last year and a half has gotten progressively worse.

That book, although it doesn't deal with BPD or narcissistic relationships specifically, is an amazing piece of work for it's insight into human behavior and the way she breaks down the dynamics of an angry verbally abusive person and the relationship.

It's a classic at this point and has sold millions of copies. I just marvel at how it captures my confusion and despair at my treatment by her. You should note that it's written from the female partner's perspective, although it's easy to just shift the pronouns in your head after a few pages.

I hope you-and others- can read it. It is so validating. Whenever I feel really, really bad I read a little bit and my anxiety goes way down.

[Gutt3rSnipe]

The eye surgery thing was SO confusing to me! I truly, truly wanted to take care of her, I would have done anything for her. I was operating under the assumption that if I asked her what she needed, what I could do, she would tell me. Instead she just said that everything was fine, she didn't need anything, she's just resting in bed. I started to then suggest things she might want-like playing some kind of game- because I sensed that she was testing me...although I couldn't put it into words then. Days later when she would finally speak to me again, I reminded her that I had asked her what she needed many times, and I had even suggested things I could do for her...in addition to what I wrote above about her telling me "her friends didn't need to ask" etc, she mocked the things I had suggested!

I'm glad that my experiences help you feel less alone. Everybody who shares here makes me feel understood and less alone too. It's amazing to me how long it has taken me to start to come to some understanding that none of this is normal.

A book I highly recommend is The Verbally Abusive Relationship, it's a great way of understanding people who need to control and have power over you. I keep it right next to my bed and will grab it to just read a few pages in those times I'm feeling bad and confused. It really is very, very clear.

That is so messed up what she did to you in that situation man. I’ve had plenty of situations like yours where I only had her intentions in mind. Regardless, during the devaluation stage almost everything I did was thrown back in my face anyways. I still don’t regret helping her as shes obviously very sick mentally. All I can do is pray for her that she gets the help she needs.

Okay, that makes more sense- they have kids so they have to communicate often.  I'm so sorry, my friend, but it doesn't feel like it's going to turn out the way you want it to.

Your mental health is the most important thing in your life (well, besides food and water, LOL).  Talk to a counselor and work through your feelings.  Posting here often helps a ton too.  I'm here for you if you ever need to talk or just rant.

Yeah, I’m definitely not holding my breath for a miracle. The more I read about the disorder the more it seems damn near impossible to have a healthy relationship with an untreated anyhow. I just hope she goes through with the therapy like she said she was.

My mental heath has definitely taken a hit from this, so I’m definitely going to talk to someone asap man! I already have MDD & GAD so you can imagine going from “finding love of my life” to “nightmare in disguise” isn’t good for the old mental haha. I appreciate the kind words and advice!

[capecodling]

My mental heath has definitely taken a hit from this, so I’m definitely going to talk to someone asap man! I already have MDD & GAD so you can imagine going from “finding love of my life” to “nightmare in disguise” isn’t good for the old mental haha. I appreciate the kind words and advice!

That about sums it up for me -- from finding the love of your life to being in a post-breakup hell, wondering how it all went so wrong.   I found I was starting to act crazy too, which made it even worse because I did plenty of things to contribute to the breakup, but -- luckily I've had healthy relationships too -- so I knew this was out of character for me.   Classic BPD.

I've read this entire thread and if I can give you one piece of unsolicited advice it would be this:  since you seem pretty conflicted about wanting to go back with her (ie you recognize how unhealthy it is but you still want it.)  This is pretty typical of the early phases of the breakup and when you are most vulnerable to being charmed back in.   Each charm-discard cycle will get harder and harder and take a bigger and bigger toll on you.  Eventually you'll end up so destroyed and hollowed-out, you won't be able to leave (and that's exactly when she'll be most likely to discard you for good.)   

I made a deal with myself that I WAS allowed to make the decision to go back to her, but only once I had fully healed myself.   In other words, I went (and still am) NC, but I told myself that NC doesn't have to be forever, only until I am 100% healed from this relationship -- meaning, I could bump into her on the street and have zero reaction.    That's probably still not what you want to hear, because its going to take time to get to that level of detachment.   But for me that was enough to go NC and stay NC.   

None of us can make healthy decisions about what to do (stay vs go) with BPD when we're in a place of such hurt and lack and neediness.   You'll never be able to make a good decision from a place of weakness like where you are now.  One should always come at a relationship from a place of strength and completeness.

[Gutt3rSnipe]

My mental heath has definitely taken a hit from this, so I’m definitely going to talk to someone asap man! I already have MDD & GAD so you can imagine going from “finding love of my life” to “nightmare in disguise” isn’t good for the old mental haha. I appreciate the kind words and advice!

That about sums it up for me -- from finding the love of your life to being in a post-breakup hell, wondering how it all went so wrong.   I found I was starting to act crazy too, which made it even worse because I did plenty of things to contribute to the breakup, but -- luckily I've had healthy relationships too -- so I knew this was out of character for me.   Classic BPD.

I've read this entire thread and if I can give you one piece of unsolicited advice it would be this:  since you seem pretty conflicted about wanting to go back with her (ie you recognize how unhealthy it is but you still want it.)  This is pretty typical of the early phases of the breakup and when you are most vulnerable to being charmed back in.   Each charm-discard cycle will get harder and harder and take a bigger and bigger toll on you.  Eventually you'll end up so destroyed and hollowed-out, you won't be able to leave (and that's exactly when she'll be most likely to discard you for good.)   

I made a deal with myself that I WAS allowed to make the decision to go back to her, but only once I had fully healed myself.   In other words, I went (and still am) NC, but I told myself that NC doesn't have to be forever, only until I am 100% healed from this relationship -- meaning, I could bump into her on the street and have zero reaction.    That's probably still not what you want to hear, because its going to take time to get to that level of detachment.   But for me that was enough to go NC and stay NC.   

None of us can make healthy decisions about what to do (stay vs go) with BPD when we're in a place of such hurt and lack and neediness.   You'll never be able to make a good decision from a place of weakness like where you are now.  One should always come at a relationship from a place of strength and completeness.

Interesting strategy for staying NC and building yourself back up again. For me, I started this relationship from a place of brokenness from the beginning of it. I was neglecting my mental heath and still wasn’t completely over my ex before my bpd ex. I think that’s why I let myself fall so hard for this girl despite all her major flags that screamed something was off. I let it go on and now I'm paying the price.

That being said, You are correct that I can’t make a heathy decision from the place I'm at now. Everything in me knows that I need to let her go for my own well-being but I can’t force myself to not love her and want to be with her. In the mean time I’m going to take your advice and try to toughen my mind to make decisions from a place of strength. Therapy and other heathy outlets (like this forum) to build myself up.

I’m curious what your bpd relationship was like if you don’t mind going into some detail. Did they do/say similar things to what I’ve already stated in my experience?

[Pook075]

Interesting strategy for staying NC and building yourself back up again. For me, I started this relationship from a place of brokenness from the beginning of it. I was neglecting my mental heath and still wasn’t completely over my ex before my bpd ex. I think that’s why I let myself fall so hard for this girl despite all her major flags that screamed something was off. I let it go on and now I'm paying the price.

That being said, You are correct that I can’t make a heathy decision from the place I'm at now. Everything in me knows that I need to let her go for my own well-being but I can’t force myself to not love her and want to be with her. In the mean time I’m going to take your advice and try to toughen my mind to make decisions from a place of strength. Therapy and other heathy outlets (like this forum) to build myself up.

I’m curious what your bpd relationship was like if you don’t mind going into some detail. Did they do/say similar things to what I’ve already stated in my experience?

Hey buddy.  That's good advice and I hope you take it.  We've all been there; knowing what the right thing to do is yet not being able to do it.  Just focus on yourself and find healthy activities to fill your day.

Your question wasn't for me, but I'll quickly share my story anyway.  Met my wife in college, and was thinking about asking her out when I heard her say to her girlfriends, "I'm going to marry <my name> someday."  I heard that and thought it was fate for us to be together, asked her out that day, and we were married about a year and a half later.  Dating was incredible; she used to come "wake me up" before college classes and I was completely in love with her.

Shortly after being married, things changed dramatically.  My wife was never home, always hanging out with her parents while I worked long hours, and I'd come home to an empty house and have to cook myself dinner...after I cleaned the house from her mess.  We'd argue and it wasn't long before she'd become violent, swinging on me.  I think we broke up 3 times in the first 4 years, and we already had two kids by then.  But we were going thru the cycles- love bombing, silent treatment, arguing, making up...it was exhausting.  

Fast forward maybe 12 years, and my oldest daughter was struggling with bipolar/BPD.  Lashing out, running away, starting fights, threatening suicide...it sucked.  I had to be ultra strict while my wife always gave into everything.  That's the first time we read the eggshells book and heard about BPD.  Never dreamed it could be my wife as well- I just thought that's how marriages were.  And like so many here, I was a forgiving person that didn't focus on the past or the obvious patterns.  I often felt like a single father because I had to do almost everything for the family and the kids myself.

Throughout the marriage, my wife would have times where she'd be depressed and shut down.  Often from anxiety just from life in general, she'd get migraines and panic attacks.  The depression became more and more frequent and last year, she was almost always down.  We didn't fight though, hadn't had an argument in probably 10 years, because I'd just accept her behavior, comfort her however I could, and just live with feeling alone.  Some here have mentioned "quiet bpd".

About 7 months ago, my wife completely shut down around me.  We didn't talk at all anymore...she was basically in her own world within her mind.  She told me she wasn't happy and left about a week before our first grandchild was born.  Don't think she had an affair since the person she latched onto was a handicapped young man she cares for at work.  He became her everything, her reason for living, and she became obsessed with him just like she obsessed over me at the start of the marriage.

Within days of breaking up, we tried to talk things out but there was something very off.  She was manic, over the moon happy all the time and loving the freedom from marriage.  She made comments about the handicapped kid's father, how she wanted to pursue a relationship with him.  Denies it all now, even though she told multiple people.  Says nothing ever happened, but who knows.  Around that same time though, she lashed out at me hardcore- I never loved her, never cared about her family, etc.  Suddenly she hated me and wanted nothing to do with me...and you can imagine how I reacted after 24 years of marriage.  It destroyed me.

But eventually, I did heal.  Got back in church and the gym.  Found stuff to keep busy in life, and maybe 3 months later I realized how horrible my marriage was the entire 24 years.  Not that my wife was horrible or that we didn't have great memories, but I could see the patterns clearly for the 1st time ever.  Talked to our doctor and she said that it's clearly BPD.  I went no contact shortly after that and it has been liberating.

I'm now 6.5 months out and I think about reconciling, but on my terms.  I can't fix her and she would have to take therapy seriously, but she says there's nothing wrong.  She's depressed again and I'm expecting a full meltdown soon.  I don't think I got the typical cycles everyone else does because my wife is "in love" with a 27 year old blind guy in a wheelchair that has several health issues the mentality of a 6 year old.  She's like his mom now and her whole life revolves around taking care of him.  He's past his life expectancy already and it breaks my heart for what will happen when he does pass away- but that's not my problem anymore.

My story is pretty unique since I have two BPD stories in one, plus my wife's BPD was much more inward and self-punishing than my daughter's.  But I clearly see the same patterns with both of them; one explodes and lashes out, the other gets depressed and shuts down.  Not sure which is worse, to be honest, but they both hurt a ton.  At least with my kid, she'd explode, shut down, and then balance out within a few days.  My wife just stayed down and hurting because she could never regulate her feelings- I feel compassion for her more than anything and that's probably why I haven't 100% moved on yet.  My kid did take therapy seriously though and we're very close now...she's doing great in life too and we're pretty much best friends.

I hope that helps!  It is therapeutic to write it out.

[SaltyDawg]

Pook,

   Your story resonates a lot with mine, a lot of parallels, about 70% similar, including a child with symptoms and the emotional distancing of my spouse.

Gutt3rSnipe,

   I too will share a little bit, so you can see some of the similarities to your own situation; however, it will be the 'short version' as I don't want to hijack the thread too much, but only to share how similar BPD stories are, drill down on my Avatar/NickName if you want the full story.

   Borderlines are plentiful, in the general population, about 1 in 20 are diagnosable as a borderline; however, in reality, that number is around 1 in 80, so 3 out of every 4 are undiagnosed borderlines [uBPD].

   I have a uBPDw, she has 8/9 symptoms, and the 9th is halfway there but may not rise to the point of being disordered.  My son, who is too young to diagnose, has been labelled with oppositional defiance tendencies, and has borderline-like splitting and borderline-like rages too.  I manage his borderline-likeness in a similar way.  Like Pook, I am physically caretaking two people with borderline-like symptoms.  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=354088.msg13181622#msg13181622 goes more indepth.

   My previous relationship was with a much more severe individual who had both uBPD/uNPD.  I also have a relatively 'new' close friend [only supporting her emotionally at a confidant level] who says she is BPD and is self-aware when she is splitting me white, and is 80% similar to my uBPDw, so I am learning from her how to manage my wife, and I her uBPD/NPDh - definite mental 'twilight zone'-like stuff.  So, I am actively emotionally managing 3 borderline / borderline-like relationships at the moment - wife, confidant, and son.  Each presents differently with its own sets of unique challenges, yet all share components that are eerily similar.  Out of the 4 close relationships, 3 were attracted to me [probably by my codependent caretaker tendencies], and 1 is my son and is not by choice. 

   I've been with my wife for 22 years, we will be married 20 years this April.  I was oblivious to what BPD was until June of last year, and I have been learning ever since.  How to establish and maintain boundaries among other management techniques.  My 'friend,' I met her last year on a facebook group similar yet different to BPD Family, I knew she was BPD before she even told me - once you learn about the symptoms/traits it is very easy to spot, much like anorexia nervosa.  I have been aware of BPD since June of last year, and it has been a learning experience ever since.

   Let me know if you want me to expand in a particular area, as I have 4+ d/uBPD [the '+' plus is that I suspect one to three more others, but don't have enough observational data to substantiate my theories as they are 'high-functioning invisibles'] relationships worth of experiences to draw off [that I wish I didn't have], plus a plethora of additional mental health issues to reference in other personal relationships including comorbid [co-existing in the same individual] and/or independent versions of ADD, ADHD, NPD, likely sociopathy or possible psychopathy, anorexia nervosa [AN], other ED's, OD, ODD, OCPD, etc.

   Irregardless of any medical condition, physical or mental, one must be self-aware that there is an issue, in order to address the issue no matter what it is.  And then there must be a will to address it.  Both must be present for someone to fix their issue whatever it might be.

   I will wrap this up, with my number one piece of advice, and that is to do 'self-care' - make sure it includes individual therapy, exercise outdoors [as simple as a walk], among othe activities that you enjoy doing to recharge your spirit.

   Take Care.

[capecodling]

Interesting strategy for staying NC and building yourself back up again. For me, I started this relationship from a place of brokenness from the beginning of it. I was neglecting my mental heath and still wasn’t completely over my ex before my bpd ex. I think that’s why I let myself fall so hard for this girl despite all her major flags that screamed something was off. I let it go on and now I'm paying the price.

That being said, You are correct that I can’t make a heathy decision from the place I'm at now. Everything in me knows that I need to let her go for my own well-being but I can’t force myself to not love her and want to be with her. In the mean time I’m going to take your advice and try to toughen my mind to make decisions from a place of strength. Therapy and other heathy outlets (like this forum) to build myself up.

I’m curious what your bpd relationship was like if you don’t mind going into some detail. Did they do/say similar things to what I’ve already stated in my experience?

There were a lot of similarities to your story, although my ex didn't act as crazy and angry about things as yours did.  She kept more of it to herself.   But she had terrible spending problems.  In the first discard cycle, when she recontacted me, she had been living in her car homeless for a week or two (sleeping there) with her two daughters and of course got back in touch with me needing help.  I even checked out her story with her daughters and some other ways too and she was telling the truth.  

But after her first discard cycle, I just couldn't trust her again the same way I could before.   I became hyper vigilant, looking for signs of things being wrong and constantly checking out facts whatever she told me.    The thing that caused me to break up with her was when I saw her start to devalue again.   I got too freaked out and could see the same process was going to repeat all over again, so I broke up with her at that point.  

But I definitely didn't break up with her from a position of strength, I was really injured from her months of chipping away at my self esteem.   She never did anything so horrible --- like yours has talked about suicide which is an absolutely over-the-line-deal-breaker in my book.   But her endless push-pull-hot-cold just wore me down and hollowed me out over time.   I couldn't take any more of it.  

I didn't like who I was becoming, so even though I could never make a 100% airtight case to myself for why I should leave her, I just felt so awful and burnt out from being with her.   This is the gigantic advantage of having had healthy relationships, you just know something is wrong, no matter how good the BPD is at gaslighting and hiding things.   You can just feel it.  

Healthy relationships don't do that to you, unless you yourself have a disordered personality.  But again, I don't think BPDs ever have healthy relationships, unless they have been in treatment for a long time ---- like years.

[capecodling]

But eventually, I did heal.  Got back in church and the gym.  Found stuff to keep busy in life, and maybe 3 months later I realized how horrible my marriage was the entire 24 years.  Not that my wife was horrible or that we didn't have great memories, but I could see the patterns clearly for the 1st time ever.  Talked to our doctor and she said that it's clearly BPD.  I went no contact shortly after that and it has been liberating.

I'm now 6.5 months out and I think about reconciling, but on my terms.  I can't fix her and she would have to take therapy seriously, but she says there's nothing wrong.  She's depressed again and I'm expecting a full meltdown soon.  I don't think I got the typical cycles everyone else does because my wife is "in love" with a 27 year old blind guy in a wheelchair that has several health issues the mentality of a 6 year old.  She's like his mom now and her whole life revolves around taking care of him.  He's past his life expectancy already and it breaks my heart for what will happen when he does pass away- but that's not my problem anymore.

I can't help but to notice the two different sentiments in what you said.   Getting away was liberating, but you think about reconciling too?   I can't conceive of a reason why you would want to go back ever, based on the story you told.   Although I could see a situation, far, far into the future where a borderline has been in treatment for years where it would make sense to have a conversation with her and her therapist and see if she seems ready to reconcile.   At least that was the deal I made with myself, had my ex been open to seeking therapy (which she wasn't.)

[Gutt3rSnipe]

I really appreciate you guys telling me your stories. You all have certainly been through ALOT. The amount of pain this disorder can bring to unsuspecting people shouldn’t be underestimated. You guys are warriors for real for putting up with it for as long as you have.

*Update*

So she FaceTimed me earlier after having been blocked. She told me that her and her ex fiancé are not officially back together but they seemed well on their way imo. She tells me that we weren’t good together and I should find someone else. I told her I’m still trying to get over you, last thing I need is another potential relationship. She then goes on to tell me that her and her ex fiancé just have this special bond and the kids are the main reason (among my supposed disregard for her feelings narrative bs) why we couldn’t be a couple. So we ended our talk amicable and on friendly terms. She says she has to block me again and I tell her I get it.

Then a couple hours later she calls me when she’s with her friend in the car. She is in a different mood and is more manic like and goofy than she was earlier. She tells me she didn’t mean to call me because I’m suppose to be blocked.. I know that’s a lie because she always use to say “oh I didn’t mean to call you” or “I didn’t mean to FaceTime you” all the time when she was mad at me and wanted to talk. We joked around a bit and she “tested” me by telling me she’s about to go see a dude for sex. She eventually admitted she was only joking and her and her friend cracked up laughing. After a while she brought up other girls again and I once again had to reiterate I wasn’t interested in finding another girl because I’m still hurt from her. We eventually say goodbye not long after her and her friend got back to her house.

Any suggestions on why she called me twice in one day to ask these questions and try and be friendly toward me? My guess is she’s testing me and wants to see if I’ll stay a back up and not be angry with her just in case. I guess she also could be just feeling bad that she basically used me while her and her ex were fighting, and she just wanted to feel better about herself by trying to get me to move on. Idk what to think as both things could be possible. Her bdp makes me think the first is more likely as a backup plan is right up their alley.

[SaltyDawg]

Any suggestions on why she called me twice in one day to ask these questions and try and be friendly toward me? My guess is she’s testing me and wants to see if I’ll stay a back up and not be angry with her just in case. I guess she also could be just feeling bad that she basically used me while her and her ex were fighting, and she just wanted to feel better about herself by trying to get me to move on. Idk what to think as both things could be possible. Her bdp makes me think the first is more likely as a backup plan is right up their alley.

You know her better than anyone else here.  Your guess is better than ours, as you know her better than we do.

It sounds like you do want to get back together with her.  I would suggest journaling what she says, and what she does, to see if there are any inconsistencies, and if there are, how egregious they are.  

You have called her a 'liar', so there are honesty issues there.  She is encouraging you to move on and see others, not typical BPD behavior, unless she has found someone else, but has indicated otherwise which is a reversal of getting back together with her ex.  She also has indicated she wanted to have sex with some other dude other than you and then told you it was a joke.  Also, not typical BPD behavior [telling you she is going to do it before doing it].  Something else is likely happening here.  Keep your eyes open, record your observations, and compare notes from day to day, like a detective to see what is actually going on.

She has clearly 'suggested' that you should move on -- I think she is trying to tell you something, and you might not be listening.  Do you think you are listening to her, or are you listening to your own wants, or is it something else?  It is something for you to ponder.

Take care, and do some self care.  Only you can take care of yourself.

[Morten]

“Any suggestions on why she called me twice in one day to ask these questions and try and be friendly toward me? My guess is she’s testing me and wants to see if I’ll stay a back up and not be angry with her just in case. I guess she also could be just feeling bad that she basically used me while her and her ex were fighting, and she just wanted to feel better about herself by trying to get me to move on. Idk what to think as both things could be possible. Her bdp makes me think the first is more likely as a backup plan is right up their alley…”

My guess its the push-pull mechanism being portrayed here. She wants you to know that she is moving on, But also keep you in the loop, because she still needs your validation. The same thing happened for me with my bpd ex, during some of our break-up cycles. Even though she found new boyfriends (one time only a few days after our breakup), she would eventually contact me after blocking me, just to tell me How difficult it was for her to move on with a new partner. It also happened after the final breakup. Even after the NC started some months ago, she has indirectly made her self noticed,, by asking common friends not to have contact with me, since she is scared I will use Them to get her back.
So I’d expect her to call you again. And again. So if I were you I would block her. She is not going to change unless she wants to.

[Gutt3rSnipe]

“Any suggestions on why she called me twice in one day to ask these questions and try and be friendly toward me? My guess is she’s testing me and wants to see if I’ll stay a back up and not be angry with her just in case. I guess she also could be just feeling bad that she basically used me while her and her ex were fighting, and she just wanted to feel better about herself by trying to get me to move on. Idk what to think as both things could be possible. Her bdp makes me think the first is more likely as a backup plan is right up their alley…”

My guess its the push-pull mechanism being portrayed here. She wants you to know that she is moving on, But also keep you in the loop, because she still needs your validation. The same thing happened for me with my bpd ex, during some of our break-up cycles. Even though she found new boyfriends (one time only a few days after our breakup), she would eventually contact me after blocking me, just to tell me How difficult it was for her to move on with a new partner. It also happened after the final breakup. Even after the NC started some months ago, she has indirectly made her self noticed,, by asking common friends not to have contact with me, since she is scared I will use Them to get her back.
So I’d expect her to call you again. And again. So if I were you I would block her. She is not going to change unless she wants to.

Wow I never thought that’s what she could be doing, just using for attention and validation. If that’s what she’s doing then it’s pathetic. As to your ex, why would she tell you how hard it was to move on from you? That doesn’t make sense to me if she’s the one who broke up with you. Then again, a lot of their behavior doesn’t make sense. I’ve been debating on if I should block her or not. If she’s gonna keep basically torturing me with her ex fiancé/new man I’m gonna have to.

[/quote]

You know her better than anyone else here.  Your guess is better than ours, as you know her better than we do.

It sounds like you do want to get back together with her.  I would suggest journaling what she says, and what she does, to see if there are any inconsistencies, and if there are, how egregious they are.  

You have called her a 'liar', so there are honesty issues there.  She is encouraging you to move on and see others, not typical BPD behavior, unless she has found someone else, but has indicated otherwise which is a reversal of getting back together with her ex.  She also has indicated she wanted to have sex with some other dude other than you and then told you it was a joke.  Also, not typical BPD behavior [telling you she is going to do it before doing it].  Something else is likely happening here.  Keep your eyes open, record your observations, and compare notes from day to day, like a detective to see what is actually going on.

She has clearly 'suggested' that you should move on -- I think she is trying to tell you something, and you might not be listening.  Do you think you are listening to her, or are you listening to your own wants, or is it something else?  It is something for you to ponder.

Take care, and do some self care.  Only you can take care of yourself.

Personally I think the sex with another dude comment was just a test to see what id say, or just to annoy me. She has always said things off the wall like that out of nowhere to get a rise out of me since I’ve known her. As to the other stuff. As you already know I’m sure, even though not one person with the disorder is the same in their thought process and actions. it’s hard to separate the person from the mental disorder sometimes as it influences them so much. Their thoughts are atypical to what a healthy mind would think to do in a lot of situations (especially when it comes to relationship stuff).I was just curious what you guys thought, as there’s obviously no way anyone but her could know for certain.

As to moving on, yes I think that’s best for my sanity. Easier said than done however. Despite me only telling you guys the negatives in the relationship, it did have some very good moments and memories. Those aren’t so easily discarded for me unfortunately. I know I need to think of what’s best for me but that doesn’t stop me from loving her as I’m sure you can understand. It will take some time for sure.

[Morten]

Wow I never thought that’s what she could be doing, just using for attention and validation. If that’s what she’s doing then it’s pathetic. As to your ex, why would she tell you how hard it was to move on from you? That doesn’t make sense to me if she’s the one who broke up with you. Then again, a lot of their behavior doesn’t make sense. I’ve been debating on if I should block her or not. If she’s gonna keep basically torturing me with her ex fiancé/new man I’m gonna have to.


Personally I think the sex with another dude comment was just a test to see what id say, or just to annoy me. She has always said things off the wall like that out of nowhere to get a rise out of me since I’ve known her. As to the other stuff. As you already know I’m sure, even though not one person with the disorder is the same in their thought process and actions. it’s hard to separate the person from the mental disorder sometimes as it influences them so much. Their thoughts are atypical to what a healthy mind would think to do in a lot of situations (especially when it comes to relationship stuff).I was just curious what you guys thought, as there’s obviously no way anyone but her could know for certain.

As to moving on, yes I think that’s best for my sanity. Easier said than done however. Despite me only telling you guys the negatives in the relationship, it did have some very good moments and memories. Those aren’t so easily discarded for me unfortunately. I know I need to think of what’s best for me but that doesn’t stop me from loving her as I’m sure you can understand. It will take some time for sure.

Actually I broke up with her once. During this breakup she was diagnosed with BPD, she discarded the diagnose, but told me about it. She changed the psychologist for a psychiatrist afterwards, since she herself thought it was "just" depression. And it was also during this breakup, she contacted me saying these things. For what reason I dont know. I can only, in hindsight, explain it with the push and pull.
However, every other time we broke up, she did do the push-pull as well. Her tactics would include our kids (we dont have kids together, but my daughter was very close to her son), running into each other at random places, extreme volume of texting, suicide attempts, new boyfriends, trashing me, and so on. Even with NC she went out of her way to stay in touch. All of a sudden my sister, with whom my ex never really spoke a word, was the most interesting person on facebook.

[Pook075]

Personally I think the sex with another dude comment was just a test to see what id say, or just to annoy me. She has always said things off the wall like that out of nowhere to get a rise out of me since I’ve known her. As to the other stuff. As you already know I’m sure, even though not one person with the disorder is the same in their thought process and actions. it’s hard to separate the person from the mental disorder sometimes as it influences them so much. Their thoughts are atypical to what a healthy mind would think to do in a lot of situations (especially when it comes to relationship stuff).I was just curious what you guys thought, as there’s obviously no way anyone but her could know for certain.

I briefly told you my story above, and my wife/child are very different people.  But one of my daughter's signature moves is to say the most outrageous, awkward things just for the pure shock value.  She's 24 and I still don't have her fully figured out, but my best guess its to get genuine reactions out of others.  It's like if she makes other people feel awkward, then she feels more normal?  I'm not sure.  Sometimes it's hysterical what she says, but sometimes it's borderline evil too.

With my wife, she made it very clear that it's over.  Then she'd tell things to the kids so it would get back to me.  She unfriended me on facebook, but stalks my Facebook through all her family's accounts.  When we talked the other day after months of NC, she brought up dozens of smaller things in my life just in casual conversation that she shouldn't have known.  Why?  I have no idea why.  It's the push/pull thing.  And I don't think that goes away, even when the relationship ends.

I genuinely believe that these relationships aren't truly over until we say they're over.

[Gutt3rSnipe]

I briefly told you my story above, and my wife/child are very different people.  But one of my daughter's signature moves is to say the most outrageous, awkward things just for the pure shock value.  She's 24 and I still don't have her fully figured out, but my best guess its to get genuine reactions out of others.  It's like if she makes other people feel awkward, then she feels more normal?  I'm not sure.  Sometimes it's hysterical what she says, but sometimes it's borderline evil too.

With my wife, she made it very clear that it's over.  Then she'd tell things to the kids so it would get back to me.  She unfriended me on facebook, but stalks my Facebook through all her family's accounts.  When we talked the other day after months of NC, she brought up dozens of smaller things in my life just in casual conversation that she shouldn't have known.  Why?  I have no idea why.  It's the push/pull thing.  And I don't think that goes away, even when the relationship ends.

I genuinely believe that these relationships aren't truly over until we say they're over.

Yeah pook, idk how you’ve dealt with living with two women who have bpd behavior. How’d you manage the stress man? I’ve only dated my ex for a couple of months and I’m tired .

To your thing you said about them never leaving. I actually believe you’re correct about that. From what I’ve read on the internet about people who have the disorder, a lot of them have stated something similar. Basically as long as they still communicate or stalk you, you are at risk of being recycled or pushed/pulled further. Whenever they’re the ones who cut all communication and stop stalking you that’s when it’s “over” for them (not always though). Anecdotal yes, but I have seen that stated a fair amount of times. If that rings true for all people with the disorder I couldn’t tell ya. Seems like a good hypothesis to me haha.

[SaltyDawg]

To your thing you said about them never leaving. I actually believe you’re correct about that. From what I’ve read on the internet about people who have the disorder, a lot of them have stated something similar. Basically as long as they still communicate or stalk you, you are at risk of being recycled or pushed/pulled further. Whenever they’re the ones who cut all communication and stop stalking you that’s when it’s “over” for them (not always though). Anecdotal yes, but I have seen that stated a fair amount of times. If that rings true for all people with the disorder I couldn’t tell ya. Seems like a good hypothesis to me haha.

My experience is different.  My uBPD/NPDexgf once she found a new NPD supply [boy friend], it was NC and they leave for good, especially if they owe you $$$'s on loans.  Just adding my two cents to the conversation. 

[Pook075]

Yeah pook, idk how you’ve dealt with living with two women who have bpd behavior. How’d you manage the stress man? I’ve only dated my ex for a couple of months and I’m tired .

To your thing you said about them never leaving. I actually believe you’re correct about that. From what I’ve read on the internet about people who have the disorder, a lot of them have stated something similar. Basically as long as they still communicate or stalk you, you are at risk of being recycled or pushed/pulled further. Whenever they’re the ones who cut all communication and stop stalking you that’s when it’s “over” for them (not always though). Anecdotal yes, but I have seen that stated a fair amount of times. If that rings true for all people with the disorder I couldn’t tell ya. Seems like a good hypothesis to me haha.

Yeah, I wish I knew- none of us do.  But I have figured out that there's two people in relationships and we have the right to walk away as well.  In other words, we can't be recycled if we just say 'no thanks'.

[Gutt3rSnipe]

My experience is different.  My uBPD/NPDexgf once she found a new NPD supply [boy friend], it was NC and they leave for good, especially if they owe you $$$'s on loans.  Just adding my two cents to the conversation.  

I’m sure the personality of the bpd individual and circumstances on how the relationship ended among other factors play a part in if they decide to recycle an ex or not. I’ve heard it happens quite frequently, but the relationships are almost always shorter lived for various reasons.

Yeah, I wish I knew- none of us do.  But I have figured out that there's two people in relationships and we have the right to walk away as well.  In other words, we can't be recycled if we just say 'no thanks'.

Exactly! I still catch myself viewing this as a normal relationship for some reason. I have to kept reminding myself that I was involved with a very unwell person with a serious mental Illness that makes heathy relationships all but impossible. I know the result of what would happen if she ever did come back trying to recycle what we had. It would end in the same way, or hell, even worse than the last time. Regardless of what I think right in this moment, If that day ever comes I hope I have the strength to say “no thanks” instead of giving in.

[Gutt3rSnipe]

.

[Pook075]

I can't help but to notice the two different sentiments in what you said.   Getting away was liberating, but you think about reconciling too?   I can't conceive of a reason why you would want to go back ever, based on the story you told.   Although I could see a situation, far, far into the future where a borderline has been in treatment for years where it would make sense to have a conversation with her and her therapist and see if she seems ready to reconcile.   At least that was the deal I made with myself, had my ex been open to seeking therapy (which she wasn't.)

I can't really answer that because I don't fully understand it myself.  Even though I know my wife needs years of therapy, that things will never be good until then, there's a small part of me that will always think of her as the love of my life.  I'm 98% over her...but it feels like that last 2% will always be there wishing my best friend was back.

[Pook075]

Exactly! I still catch myself viewing this as a normal relationship for some reason. I have to kept reminding myself that I was involved with a very unwell person with a serious mental Illness that makes heathy relationships all but impossible. I know the result of what would happen if she ever did come back trying to recycle what we had. It would end in the same way, or hell, even worse than the last time. Regardless of what I think right in this moment, If that day ever comes I hope I have the strength to say “no thanks” instead of giving in.

Me too.  I've read books, spent countless hours on this site, and watched tons of videos.  I have my BPD daughter as well that I can bounce questions off of to better understand the disease and the thought process.  Yet I still don't know if I have the strength to just say "no thanks" if/when the time comes.  Even though I'm not in love anymore, I just don't know how to not care about someone I spent half my life with.

[Gutt3rSnipe]

Me too.  I've read books, spent countless hours on this site, and watched tons of videos.  I have my BPD daughter as well that I can bounce questions off of to better understand the disease and the thought process.  Yet I still don't know if I have the strength to just say "no thanks" if/when the time comes.  Even though I'm not in love anymore, I just don't know how to not care about someone I spent half my life with.

It might not give you strength in that regard  but your knowledge on this terrible illness can help a lot of people on this site, including myself,  If that’s any consolation man. I think it’s totally understandable that you’d still care about someone after all the time you’ve invested. Who knows, maybe if she does come back it’ll work out this time around. Is she receiving any therapy?

[Gutt3rSnipe]

*Update*

So I believe today was my official discard. She was unexpectedly level headed during our exchange. I sent her a message basically telling her about herself and all the hell she’s put me through. Here’s what she said.

She told me that we’ll just have to agree to disagree on the cause of our relationship end. She still blames me for the relationship failure(not surprising). She told me that what we had was fun and it had its good moments but her feelings have changed. She wants to try and make it work with her ex for her children’s sake, even though she’s not in love with him. Apparently the final straw on when she lost feelings for me is my “clingy” behavior. It really bothered her because I questioned her about her ex three times… She considered that being clingy..

Really I think I was just a filler for her while he was painted black. Once I ticked too many of her red flag boxes she went back to him. I’ve never seen a more slow systematic destruction  of a relationship in my life. Ever since I missed that one date it’s been a gradual devaluation to the discard bin. It’s unbelievable.. I just kept getting more and more flaws as time went on. Even if I  did right by her in her eyes I still never recovered to get any closer to her romantically. It never got any better in that regard from that missed ginger bread date to the present. It’s almost like she had two different views of me in the same person if that makes any sense. It’s kinda hard to explain, but if someone could shed some light on that I’d appreciate it.

And here’s the worst part, she’s totally oblivious to the illness effecting her in the slightest. I get that’s every untreated pwBPD, but it’s beyond frustrating and heartbreaking to witness it for myself. I truly loved that girl and my heart is very heavy losing her. Even though I know it’s impossible, I still was praying somehow she’d snap out of it and see things clearly eventually. Remember all the good times we had, remember all the things I’ve done for her. This disorder is truly a terrible terrible thing. For them and nons alike…