Trying to get over all of the errors in thinking of my BPD ex.

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hi, I've been reading this board for a few months while I tried to maintain and rebuild a relationship with my ex-gf with bpd.  I am finally ready to move on after the events of the last few days.  I'm an extremely logical person and the utter absurdity of how I was treated as well as why; why I put up with it; you name is extremely confusing to me.  I was with her for 8 years.  We met in an unconventional way.  We immediately fell in sync.  She seemed to be my perfect match and I'm a bit of an unusual personality.  We shared the same type of upbringing, personality, sense of humor and had a ball for 18 months.  I asked her to move in with me and my children with her two children.  Within weeks of moving in; everything changed.  She got angry at me and my children almost daily.  I wouldn't chose the right thing to make for dinner.  Her children; one of which most certainly has BPD was literally out of control.  He made threats; didn't listen to any parenting; hit my child repeatedly.  Not only did she not parent him, she defended him, saying my child brought it upon himself, saying I was cruel to her child (Putting them in a 5 min timeout for punching, threatening, pissing all over the bathroom - multiple times a day).  She would fly into rages.  She would always take her childs side.  The situation became untenable and I finally asked her to move out; but that I would help her in every way possible.  And I did.  I paid her mortgage for awhile; bought her a fridge; paid for her flooring; you name it.  I desperately wanted those first amazing 18 months back.  I made a fatal mistake.  I went on three dates with women a few years back and she caught me.  I apologized profusely; and spent the last couple of years trying to make it up to her.  Brought her gifts multiple times a week.  Did a million favors.  You name it.  I mean, we're really talking going above and beyond.  I thought we were mending our relationship.  The anger issues continued and I did my best to be kind and understanding in return.  But everything was about those three dates.  This last summer she began devaluing me.  Bit by bit she was cutting me out of her life.  We used to spend half the week with one another and by mid summer it was down to 8 hours on a Saturday.  I asked her a million times if she was seeing someone else which she ardently denied.  In November, I was at her house and opened up her computer and found tons and tons of photos of her with other men; advertising as a sex worker; you name it.  She was clearly dating one of them.  When she came home I confronted her and all of the lies on top of lies started.  First she said she just started seeing him.  I said I saw pictures of her with him for months.  Then she changed her answer.  I asked how many men she'd been with and she said 3.  I said that was impossible and I counted at least 10 (I took pics of the pics and since then have revised my estimate to about 30) and she said, okay, 10.  Over the next few months I tried working it out with her.  Tried reading about BPD (She self diagnosed but when I read the symptoms she was spot on.  She had every single symptom and it explained it all).  I looked past the indiscretions by telling myself that she could turn things around and we could start fresh.  I worked on trying to create a guide for us to get along.  I gave her pep talks, advice on things I'd read on how she could get better, started therapy.  

The problem is that she just kept telling lie after lie.  Kept cheating again and again.  Got upset when I would call her on her lies or catch her cheating.  She kept telling me she desperately wanted to get better and needed my help.  She kept telling me everything I wanted to hear only to lie and cheat days or even hours later.  I thought we were making progress but honestly I think I was just fooling myself.  Two weeks ago I slept over and there sat her laptop again; I opened it to find her telling a guy that she loved him and wanted to build a life with him.  She had texted him this moments after her and I were intimate.  She had a whole story when confronted that it was him pushing it and she was just going along with it.  I kid you not; I tried resetting days later but with firm guidelines in place.  She agreed to all of them.  Two days later I found him at her house again.  She also didn't follow any of the guidelines.  Sharing her location; letting me see her phone.  She had an excuse as to why I was in the wrong.  Two days ago she promised she had told him she would never see him again.  I drove by her house to 'check' and she utterly flipped out; sent me a tirade on how bad I was; how horribly I had treated; I was abusive; you name it.  She then blocked me on everything.  The last day or so I finally had the epiphany that she really was un-saveable.  I'm now trying to make sense of the last better part of a decade.  Why she did all these things.  Why everything was my fault.  I concluded that her BPD lens always made my reactions; to her bad actions; be the root cause of the issues.  It wasn't that she basically taught me to drive by to check to see if a strangers car was parked in her driveway; it was that I didn't trust her that was the problem.  Even though I caught her like 30 times lying or cheating.  I layed awake all last night thinking and remembered about 100 instances; almost every fight we ever had; where that seemed to be her logic.  She would get mad at me for what I chose to make for dinner; if I defended myself, I was abusive.  If I caught her cheating and got upset; my communication to her was 'mean.'  It was always my reaction to her behaviour that was the problem to her; not her action that kicked things off.  If you read to here; thank you.  If you understand or have thoughts on how a BPD person thinks; please share them?  I'm just trying to understand.

[bstar]

Hi, I've been reading this board for a few months while I tried to maintain and rebuild a relationship with my ex-gf with bpd.  I am finally ready to move on after the events of the last few days.  I'm an extremely logical person and the utter absurdity of how I was treated as well as why; why I put up with it; you name is extremely confusing to me.  I was with her for 8 years.  We met in an unconventional way.  We immediately fell in sync.  She seemed to be my perfect match and I'm a bit of an unusual personality.  We shared the same type of upbringing, personality, sense of humor and had a ball for 18 months.  I asked her to move in with me and my children with her two children.  Within weeks of moving in; everything changed.  She got angry at me and my children almost daily.  I wouldn't chose the right thing to make for dinner.  Her children; one of which most certainly has BPD was literally out of control.  He made threats; didn't listen to any parenting; hit my child repeatedly.  Not only did she not parent him, she defended him, saying my child brought it upon himself, saying I was cruel to her child (Putting them in a 5 min timeout for punching, threatening, pissing all over the bathroom - multiple times a day).  She would fly into rages.  She would always take her childs side.  The situation became untenable and I finally asked her to move out; but that I would help her in every way possible.  And I did.  I paid her mortgage for awhile; bought her a fridge; paid for her flooring; you name it.  I desperately wanted those first amazing 18 months back.  I made a fatal mistake.  I went on three dates with women a few years back and she caught me.  I apologized profusely; and spent the last couple of years trying to make it up to her.  Brought her gifts multiple times a week.  Did a million favors.  You name it.  I mean, we're really talking going above and beyond.  I thought we were mending our relationship.  The anger issues continued and I did my best to be kind and understanding in return.  But everything was about those three dates.  This last summer she began devaluing me.  Bit by bit she was cutting me out of her life.  We used to spend half the week with one another and by mid summer it was down to 8 hours on a Saturday.  I asked her a million times if she was seeing someone else which she ardently denied.  In November, I was at her house and opened up her computer and found tons and tons of photos of her with other men; advertising as a sex worker; you name it.  She was clearly dating one of them.  When she came home I confronted her and all of the lies on top of lies started.  First she said she just started seeing him.  I said I saw pictures of her with him for months.  Then she changed her answer.  I asked how many men she'd been with and she said 3.  I said that was impossible and I counted at least 10 (I took pics of the pics and since then have revised my estimate to about 30) and she said, okay, 10.  Over the next few months I tried working it out with her.  Tried reading about BPD (She self diagnosed but when I read the symptoms she was spot on.  She had every single symptom and it explained it all).  I looked past the indiscretions by telling myself that she could turn things around and we could start fresh.  I worked on trying to create a guide for us to get along.  I gave her pep talks, advice on things I'd read on how she could get better, started therapy.  

The problem is that she just kept telling lie after lie.  Kept cheating again and again.  Got upset when I would call her on her lies or catch her cheating.  She kept telling me she desperately wanted to get better and needed my help.  She kept telling me everything I wanted to hear only to lie and cheat days or even hours later.  I thought we were making progress but honestly I think I was just fooling myself.  Two weeks ago I slept over and there sat her laptop again; I opened it to find her telling a guy that she loved him and wanted to build a life with him.  She had texted him this moments after her and I were intimate.  She had a whole story when confronted that it was him pushing it and she was just going along with it.  I kid you not; I tried resetting days later but with firm guidelines in place.  She agreed to all of them.  Two days later I found him at her house again.  She also didn't follow any of the guidelines.  Sharing her location; letting me see her phone.  She had an excuse as to why I was in the wrong.  Two days ago she promised she had told him she would never see him again.  I drove by her house to 'check' and she utterly flipped out; sent me a tirade on how bad I was; how horribly I had treated; I was abusive; you name it.  She then blocked me on everything.  The last day or so I finally had the epiphany that she really was un-saveable.  I'm now trying to make sense of the last better part of a decade.  Why she did all these things.  Why everything was my fault.  I concluded that her BPD lens always made my reactions; to her bad actions; be the root cause of the issues.  It wasn't that she basically taught me to drive by to check to see if a strangers car was parked in her driveway; it was that I didn't trust her that was the problem.  Even though I caught her like 30 times lying or cheating.  I layed awake all last night thinking and remembered about 100 instances; almost every fight we ever had; where that seemed to be her logic.  She would get mad at me for what I chose to make for dinner; if I defended myself, I was abusive.  If I caught her cheating and got upset; my communication to her was 'mean.'  It was always my reaction to her behaviour that was the problem to her; not her action that kicked things off.  If you read to here; thank you.  If you understand or have thoughts on how a BPD person thinks; please share them?  I'm just trying to understand.

[SaltyDawg]

bstar,

   Welcome to BPD Family.

   I am going to say 'wow', that sounds extremely severe BPD mixed with other significant issues.

   I just did a post you might find interesting at https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=355053 as it covers getting over 'all of the errors in thinking of' being with a person with BPD. 

   If you respond to this post, I will be more than happy to do a deeper dive on your specific questions.

   The short version of my recommendation is to 'run' and run away as fast as you can - and don't look back - I did that with my first BPD relationship - I am currently nearing the end of my 2nd BPD relationship.  Keep in mind that you don't want a STD or be caught up with a woman like that - short of a miracle, there is likely no help at all.  You also don't want one of her 30 +/- boyfriends [a good chance +/- 2 or more of them have their own severe mental health issues as well] coming after you.  Watch your back, and gently detach.  From what you have shared, she has 30 boyfriends she can draw off for her emotional needs, you are only one swinging d**k out of 2+ dozen guys that she shares her body and soul with.  Do you really want to be with a woman like that?

   I will wrap this up, with my number one piece of advice, and that is to do 'self-care' - make sure it includes individual therapy, exercise outdoors [as simple as a walk], among other activities that you enjoy doing to recharge your spirit.

   Take care, good luck on your journey through life.

SD

[bstar]

That's actually a good point, about the other men.  I hadn't thought of that.  I read the other threads you forwarded and they were extremely helpful.  I might be looking for things that can't possibly be answered.  But here they are:

1. I don't understand how people with BPD do the most incredibly horrible things, but if you point out what their doing is horrible, they get angry at you.  For instance, in her eyes, every last thing she did is my fault.  She says "I taught her" how to behave.  

2. To be clear, this is self harm?  Or self soothing?  She was with 3 or 4 men in a day sometimes.  Besides the fact that I don't even know how this would work out logistically, what's she thinking by the 4th guy?  Disconnected?  

3. She's so disconnected from reality I can't figure it out.  She literally told me yesterday that "I try to do and be better all the time and try and be a good person."  How can people with BPD be so delusional?  Does she really believe this?  After the last 90 days of literally torturing everyone around her?

4. How do they re-write history so quickly and wrong?  She told me that I always threw her mental illness in her face.  I did nothing but support her on it since the beginning.  I tried to read up on; offer her suggestions.  I spent three months researching BPD since I found out and put together an entire guide on coping mechanisms.  But in her memory; I "threw it in her face."  I spent over an hour on the phone with her as recently as last week trying to tell her everything would be okay and we could work through this.

5. I read your post where she began signs of BPD 5 weeks after your marriage.  Mine presented 4 weeks after she moved in.  This must indicate some ability to manage their behaviour just long enough to lock you in, no?  Some awareness?

So, those are my current questions.  Don't worry; I'm detaching.  Every hour that goes by I uncover another memory that is so preposterous I'm flabbergasted it either happened (She answered an ad for sex where she participated in a mobile gang bang.  She cancelled a date with me to attend, unbeknownst to me.) or that I tolerated it.  I actually tried to work it out after I found her texts saying she loved this guy and wanted to build a life with him.  I seriously did.

[Couscous]

One thing that might help is if turn your attention inward and seek to understand yourself a bit better. One way to do this would be to read up on the repetition compulsion, which could offer a possible explanation for why you got involved with her in the first place.

[bstar]

Well, I read up on that and clearly I have some components of it - in particular "trying to resolve things I couldn't from my childhood."  I've done a ton of research on myself.  That being said, my questions are actually related to my ex BPD partners behaviour.  Does anyone have any possible answers to these?

1. I don't understand how people with BPD do the most incredibly horrible things, but if you point out what their doing is horrible, they get angry at you.  For instance, in her eyes, every last thing she did is my fault.  She says "I taught her" how to behave. 

2. To be clear, this is self harm?  Or self soothing?  She was with 3 or 4 men in a day sometimes.  Besides the fact that I don't even know how this would work out logistically, what's she thinking by the 4th guy?  Disconnected? 

3. She's so disconnected from reality I can't figure it out.  She literally told me yesterday that "I try to do and be better all the time and try and be a good person."  How can people with BPD be so delusional?  Does she really believe this?  After the last 90 days of literally torturing everyone around her?

4. How do they re-write history so quickly and wrong?  She told me that I always threw her mental illness in her face.  I did nothing but support her on it since the beginning.  I tried to read up on; offer her suggestions.  I spent three months researching BPD since I found out and put together an entire guide on coping mechanisms.  But in her memory; I "threw it in her face."  I spent over an hour on the phone with her as recently as last week trying to tell her everything would be okay and we could work through this.

5. I read your post where she began signs of BPD 5 weeks after your marriage.  Mine presented 4 weeks after she moved in.  This must indicate some ability to manage their behaviour just long enough to lock you in, no?  Some awareness?

6. She's convinced that "I"m mean."  - this is after everything.  After her using me for years; gaslighting me; convincing me after we had broken up that we could possibly get back together so I should turn away a number of dates only to catch her with men days later.  How can they not see that their behaviour was the impetus?

[babyducks]

1. I don't understand how people with BPD do the most incredibly horrible things, but if you point out what their doing is horrible, they get angry at you.  For instance, in her eyes, every last thing she did is my fault.  She says "I taught her" how to behave.  

it's a self defense mechanism.   and its projection.   people with BPD (pwBPD) truly believe that they have no responsibility for their own emotions and actions.   that what they do and what they feel is caused by external people and events.   that type of thinking protects them from feeling shame, blame, broken or unworthy.    it's not a logical choice.    it's a severe mental illness and while mental illness has a pattern attached to it,  you can't really call it logical.   the worse her behavior got the more she had to blame you,  to protect herself.

  

2. To be clear, this is self harm?  Or self soothing?  She was with 3 or 4 men in a day sometimes.  Besides the fact that I don't even know how this would work out logistically, what's she thinking by the 4th guy?  Disconnected?  

chances are none of this a conscious deliberate choice.   it could be self harm.   it could be re-enacting the trauma that set of her illness to begin with.   it could be impulsive acting out to channel her anger.     likely she's not thinking at all.    she's feeling.   chaotic and impulsive feelings that she then attaches to some real life event to help make sense of them.

3. She's so disconnected from reality I can't figure it out.  She literally told me yesterday that "I try to do and be better all the time and try and be a good person."  How can people with BPD be so delusional?  Does she really believe this?  After the last 90 days of literally torturing everyone around her?

again its a mental illness and to try and compare it against ~normal~ thinking and behaving, just doesn't work.   apples and oranges.     her reality is very real to her.  it makes perfect sense in her head.    you and I process the events of life much differently than pwBPD do.  my Ex had a delusion that the weather was always trying to communicate with her.    once she 'drove' the car by taking her hands of the steering wheel and letting the wind push the car where it should go.    fortunately no one was hurt that time.   you and I know that's a delusion.   the wind can't push a car.    for my Ex that was very real.  the wind was trying to send her a message.    

4. How do they re-write history so quickly and wrong?  

feelings equal facts.   the feelings of the moment are 100 percent accurate and will last forever.   in the middle of an extreme emotional dysregulation they might not actually be processing all the things going on because they are so swamped with the emotional storm they are in the middle of.    so if the feel shame, lack of self worth they have to push that away as hard as they can.

5. I read your post where she began signs of BPD 5 weeks after your marriage.  Mine presented 4 weeks after she moved in.  This must indicate some ability to manage their behaviour just long enough to lock you in, no?  Some awareness?

BPD worsens with stress.   so do most mental illnesses.    the stress of the move probably was hard to cope with.    BPD is worse the more intimate the relationship.    casual friends don't trigger a BPD episode as frequently as a romantic partner.    with a romantic partner there is a constant struggle between the fear of abandonment and engulfment.    meaning between being left or unloved or losing a sense of independent self.

I uncover another memory that is so preposterous I'm flabbergasted it either happened

for me, what my experience was, I tolerated and accepted things I never should have because they felt normal to me.   I had to seriously ask myself why I stayed and tried so hard to make things work.

my two cents
'ducks

[bstar]

Thank you - this is incredibly helpful.  This one in particular:

feelings equal facts.   the feelings of the moment are 100 percent accurate and will last forever.   in the middle of an extreme emotional dysregulation they might not actually be processing all the things going on because they are so swamped with the emotional storm they are in the middle of.    so if the feel shame, lack of self worth they have to push that away as hard as they can

That was always a struggle during our entire relationship.  Convincing her that just because she felt something it wasn't actually true.  I could never get her to budge off of it.  She got MRSA a couple of years ago.  She has relentlessly blamed me for giving it to her although she didn't see me for weeks before she got it; I never did get it; and I didn't see those women until two months after.  But she's been yelling that I gave it to her for over 2 years.

[babyducks]

That was always a struggle during our entire relationship.  Convincing her that just because she felt something it wasn't actually true.  I could never get her to budge off of it. 

lets say you and I and SaltyDawg are sitting on a park bench watching some kids play on jungle gym.      One kid nearly falls awkwardly but his mom catches him at the last second.

I might be thinking 'why wasn't mom paying closer attention'.   you might be thinking 'thank goodness he wasn't hurt'.    SaltyDawg might be thinking 'they shouldn't have put asphalt under the jungle gym'.     we all saw/experienced the same event.   but we all perceived it through our own lens/filter.    how we experienced it says more about us than the event itself.

the same is true for pwBPD.    they experience events through the lens/filter of what are often harmfully intense chaotic emotions.    we often make the mistake of assuming that they think/feel/experience the same way we do.   this is projection of our own.    I think/feel/process this way so she must also.   not at all true.

trying to logically explain never really works with someone who is organized at the borderline level.    logically explaining invalidates their perspective.  literally hundreds of members here have spent endless hours logically "proving" that some event didn't happen, some perception wasn't true and making their relationship worse for every hour they spent.

'ducks

[SaltyDawg]

I might be looking for things that can't possibly be answered.

There are answers; however, they are not logical to a neurotypical person [average Joe].  However to the neurodivergent [disordered individual] their logic makes sense to them.  Disclaimer, this is based on 'theories' from experts and 'observations' that I have made and read about and correlated together to have a best guess as to what is going on.


1. I don't understand how people with BPD do the most incredibly horrible things, but if you point out what their doing is horrible, they get angry at you.  For instance, in her eyes, every last thing she did is my fault.  She says "I taught her" how to behave.  

There is something wrong with their mind.  The sex behavior that you describes likely originates with a 'fear of abandonment' and/or 'self-harm'.  This usually originates from a childhood trauma of some sort of abuse either neglect, pedophilia, beatings, or some other continuously invalidating experience.  When you point out this behavior to them, they cannot in their own comprehend what they are doing, so instead of accepting them they tell you it is your fault.  This is called 'projection' and/or 'transference' where their own intolerable behaviors they cannot accept, so they assign those behaviors as the fault of someone who is close to them.  

If she tells you the 'I taught her' bit while on the topic of her sexual behavior, this is a high indication of some kind of sexual trauma she experiences when she was younger.


2. To be clear, this is self harm?  Or self soothing?  She was with 3 or 4 men in a day sometimes.  Besides the fact that I don't even know how this would work out logistically, what's she thinking by the 4th guy?  Disconnected?

Not trying to be judgemental is more than likely her version of "self-harm" where she relives her childhood trauma over and over and over again.  There are too many men there to be considered "fears of abandonment".   "Self-Harm" and "Fear of Abandonment" are the top two listed reasons by self-aware borderlines for hypersexual behaviors which comprise approximately 90% of the reasons given.
 

3. She's so disconnected from reality I can't figure it out.  She literally told me yesterday that "I try to do and be better all the time and try and be a good person."  How can people with BPD be so delusional?  Does she really believe this?  After the last 90 days of literally torturing everyone around her?

That is likely her genuine and legitimate want and desire for herself; however, she has no clue on how to go about getting it.  Just like a homeless person may want and desires to be like to be the king of England, while both are a reality; however, there is no way a homeless person can be king [except in a fantasy world, and that is where her mind is].  Disassociation is the 9th symptom of BPD.
  

4. How do they re-write history so quickly and wrong?  She told me that I always threw her mental illness in her face.  I did nothing but support her on it since the beginning.  I tried to read up on; offer her suggestions.  I spent three months researching BPD since I found out and put together an entire guide on coping mechanisms.  But in her memory; I "threw it in her face."  I spent over an hour on the phone with her as recently as last week trying to tell her everything would be okay and we could work through this.

It is their version of the truth.  They rewrite it as their mind can comprehend it, it is their 'narrative', and what they cannot comprehend or accept as truth is more often than not discarded or twisted into their version.  The components that they cannot accept of themselves are projected or transferred on to others [blame game].

BTW, I am very much interested in your 'guide on coping mechanisms' -- if you could be so kind as to share that, it would be great?  


5. I read your post where she began signs of BPD 5 weeks after your marriage.  Mine presented 4 weeks after she moved in.  This must indicate some ability to manage their behaviour just long enough to lock you in, no?  Some awareness?

Yes, they can manage their behavior, if they think that there are 'consequences' for their behaviors, they won't do them.  In my case it was the 'fear of abandonment' that kept my wife from exhibiting those behaviors, it wasn't until she was pretty 'safe' in the knowledge that I would run, she stopped mirroring my wants/needs and started to assert her own wants/needs in a dysfunctional way.  When I considered leaving, she reverted to the love bombing phase.

The cycle is:

love bombing --> devalue --> discard --> repeat

There can be cycles within cycles the large cycles typically range from 3 days to 3 decades, the smaller more intense ones from a few minutes to a few days.  Definitely 'crazy' stuff.


I am glad that you have seen what is going on and you are detaching, your story is one of the more severe ones that I have seen [amount of sexual partners].

I am definitely interested in the 'coping mechanisms' that you have come up with as I can find that useful for myself.  My current top 3 are:  exercise outdoors, long hot shower, and getting lost in a good movie/book/tv-series.

Take care, and good luck.

[bstar]

Sorry to reply to my own message - but I think that's the key I was looking for.  I was competing against every fear she was developing in her mind.  They kept building up over time.  And to her they were appearing to be current.  Our arguments got worse and worse; her logic became absurd; and by the end it was so ridiculous but by then I was completely enmeshed.  

This: literally hundreds of members here have spent endless hours logically "proving" that some event didn't happen, some perception wasn't true and making their relationship worse for every hour they spent. - You just described my life for the last few years.  I want to be clear that I did make an ethical and moral mistake.  And lied about it.  But I didn't know the consequences would become just so dire.  And I apologized a million times for it - but based on the feedback here - it just grew and grew.  When I caught her a few months back - her explanation was that she was doing it since I was.  In her mind I was doing the same or worse.  And she ignored me trying to make it up to her and just kept punishing me.  It all makes sense now.

[Pook075]

feelings equal facts.   the feelings of the moment are 100 percent accurate and will last forever.

How sure are you about this statement?  

One of my BPD ex's big things since we split up was "you've always hated my family."  Are you saying that she'll always feel that way- despite her family telling her different?

[bstar]

Well, unfortunately I can’t answer that.  Her family hates me.  Her son threatened me with a hate crime the other day.  I’m a minority.  She defended him saying I brought it upon myself by instigating.

[babyducks]

How sure are you about this statement?  

One of my BPD ex's big things since we split up was "you've always hated my family."  Are you saying that she'll always feel that way- despite her family telling her different?

The statement is from the book 'stop caretaking'.

The rest of the chapter talks about how pwbpd believe the feelings of the moment are 100 percent accurate and will last forever until the next dysregulation comes through and then those feelings will be 100 percent accurate and will last forever.

So like most things regarding complex human nature there's no simple yes/no answer.  

PwBPD are still complicated human beings reacting to and from their own unique fears and feelings.

For a while we were all the perfect romantic partners.   Just the perfect soul mates.  Until suddenly we weren't.    The statement about 100 percent accurate and lasting forever isn't so much about duration as depth of conviction.

Does that answer your question?

[Pook075]

The statement is from the book 'stop caretaking'.

The rest of the chapter talks about how pwbpd believe the feelings of the moment are 100 percent accurate and will last forever until the next dysregulation comes through and then those feelings will be 100 percent accurate and will last forever.

So like most things regarding complex human nature there's no simple yes/no answer.  

PwBPD are still complicated human beings reacting to and from their own unique fears and feelings.

For a while we were all the perfect romantic partners.   Just the perfect soul mates.  Until suddenly we weren't.    The statement about 100 percent accurate and lasting forever isn't so much about duration as depth of conviction.

Does that answer your question?

It does, and that makes more sense with the deeper insight.  It will be there forever, or until a new pattern rears up and becomes the new reality.  Thank you!

[Couscous]

6. She's convinced that "I"m mean."  

Understanding the role that shame plays in BPD helped me make sense of their propensity to externalize blame (i.e., blame others).

The following excerpt explains this better than I can:

Blaming can be internalized or externalized. People who tend to self-blame may attribute virtually any negative outcome to a lurking sense of badness or deficiency. Cognitive psychologists (Abramson, et. al, 1999) have coined the term “depressogenic attributional style” to refer to the tendency to interpret all negative events as evidence of personal failure or toxicity. On the other hand, we are all aware of people (narcissists, for example) who externalize blame. Victims, other actors or forces beyond control may be targets for blame. In the process, externalizing personalities regulate and project shameful feelings that would otherwise attach to a sense of responsibility for the shameful quality. This also preempts the feeling of guilt for harmful actions.

Being the target of someone’s blame is not pleasant for anyone, but if you grew up in a shame-based family then you will be extra sensitive to her attempts to blame and shame you. If this was the case for you, then working with a competent therapist on this issue could help you to move on from this relationship more easily.

Wishing you all the best in your recovery journey.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/intense-emotions-and-strong-feelings/201604/shame-and-the-pendulum-blame

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/shame-guilt-and-their-defenses/202107/why-people-borderline-personality-are-hostage-shame

[Gutt3rSnipe]

I found this summery really shed a lot of light on the behavior of pwBPD for me. Maybe it could help you too. I didn’t write this.

Here is a summary of BPD i had created if you want to find out more about how BPD works. Hope it helps:
Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) is a hereditary, genetic condition that significantly affects emotions, sense of self, memory and interpersonal relationships. Studies reveal extensive differences in brain structure and function. BPD is often triggered from the interplay of genetics with trauma during childhood. It is suspected that during early childhood, increased levels of cortisol caused by stress (trauma) permanently change the brain structure and function of those genetically predisposed to it (such as increased gray matter in the amygdala area, among other things), causing BPD. While there is no cure, BPD is very treatable with Dialectical Behavior Therapy that was specifically designed for people with BPD (by a person with BPD) and can give someone the tools to recognize and manage the symptoms.
BPD is a disorder of Dysregulation made up by Emotion Dysregulation (the core of BPD), as well as, Interpersonal, Identity, Behavioral, and Cognitive Dysregulation.
More specifically, BPD causes intense emotions that are difficult to control and manage (i.e. “Emotion Dysregulation”) including unreasonable Fear of Abandonment which is central to BPD. BPD is primarily noticed through interpersonal relationships (“Interpersonal Dysregulation”):
Persons with BPD (PBPD) feel all emotions intensely, therefore, when they like someone (either in friendship or romantically) PBPDs will love that person intensely. If the other person reciprocates then they will both be enmeshed in a very intense and personal relationship.
PBPDs see the world through Black and White Thinking. Themselves and others are viewed as either “good” or “bad”. There are very few gray areas, if any. For example, it is difficult for a PBPD to be angry at a loved one and recognize that - while the PBPD is angry at them - the PBPD still loves them. Conversely, if a loved one is angry at the PBPD then the PBPD will view either themselves or the loved one as “Bad”, because for them, someone who is “good” would never criticize or make them feel sad. Thinking is generally Black and White or Good vs Bad.
When a PBPD loves you, they will make you the center of their lives. This phase is called “Idealization” and the loved one is viewed as “all good”. PBPDs also feel intense fear of abandonment - and in order to avoid the possibility that a genuine loved one will abandon them - they will unconsciously suddenly start to hate (“Devalue”) their loved ones in a process called Splitting (which will also completely change their memories of such a person).
In addition to Fear of Abandonment, many PBPDs experience “Fear of Engulfment”. As mentioned above, close relationships for PBPDs are very emotionally intense, and because PBPDs are afraid that their loved ones will Abandon them, they are also afraid of getting very close to such loved ones in the first place. If you are in a close relationship with someone with BPD, it may feel like they are pulling you closer with one hand, while at the same time pushing you away with their other hand. BPD relationships are often a balancing act between Fear of Abandonment and Fear of Engulfment. It is due to those fears that Splitting and Devaluation occurs.
Splitting occurs primarily against those people PBPDs feel like “they cannot live without”. At the suspicion of real or imagined abandonment, suddenly (overnight), the loved one will be viewed as “all bad” and all their behaviors become suspect with malevolent ulterior motives. The entire relationship is completely forgotten and replaced with an alternate reality where the former loved one was always “all bad” and the two were never enmeshed in an intense, loving and personal relationship. This phase is called “Devaluation”. PBPDs also Devalue people they feel threatened by or who make them feel insecure.
It is important to note that BPD causes fragmentation of memory including, lack of object constancy, lack of whole object relations, “emotional amnesia” as well as outright False Memories (things that never quite happened, but feel as true to PBPDs as anything else). This peculiar problem with memory means that PBPDs only remember others based on their last encounter and continuously color the entire relationship based on each last encounter (i.e. they are unable to link the past with the present. Because of the lack of object constancy, they can only live in the present).
Because PBPDs memories are fragmented, it becomes exceedingly difficult to trust others. PBPDs experience difficulty intergrading what they know about someone into a cohesive image. It is not uncommon for PBPDs to believe that loved ones, will betray them at any moment. For reasons that are not yet fully understood, the PBPD’s mind cannot integrate a consistent perception of others based on past experience. The past cannot be integrated with the present. For a PBPD, given the opportunity, anyone may do anything, no matter how absurd under the circumstances or how out of character it would be. As such, PBPDs are unable to exhibit normal levels of trust.
PBPD memories are based on their present feelings and not the actual past (i.e. for PBPDs, their emotions and feelings dictate their reality, instead of facts.). A distorted view and understanding of reality is one of the major issues of BPD. Without treatment, PBPDs are generally unaware that their memories and perception of reality are distorted.
If a PBPD Devalues you, then you will be remembered as always having been an unworthy person who they don’t particularly like (even though up until yesterday you were the center on their lives and could do no wrong). Any attempt to remind an untreated PBPD of the past will cause them confusion and cognitive dissonance. Untreated PBPDs will ultimately rationalize their behavior even against overwhelming facts. For PBPDs, how they presently feel about something, makes it the absolute and only truth.
In short, when a PBPD loves someone intensely, the fear of abandonment will be so overwhelming and all-consuming that the mind, in order to protect itself from those overwhelming emotions, will suddenly “flip a switch” and cause to PBPD to suddenly feel nothing for loved one, hate them and lose all their memories of ever loving them. Sadly, unless treated, the effects of BPD on a PBPD can only be called tragic. There is a relevant and well-known quote by a certain Dr. Thomas Sydenham

that accurately describes the unfortunate effects that BPD has on the sufferers: “They love without measure those they will soon hate without reason”.
Once Devalued, the loved one will notice a very drastic, sudden change in the PBPD’s behavior towards them– the person who was extremely loving yesterday and the two of you were inseparable, now treats you like a persona non grata for no apparent reason while denying anything is different. The Devaluation phase completely erases the loving and close relationship. The PBPD will be unable to remember that they once had strong feelings for you.
For those close to a PBPD (such as close friends, life partners, family members etc.) it may feel as the PBPD has two personas, a Dr. Jekyll and a Mr. Hyde, where neither the Dr. Jekyll nor the Mr. Hyde persona is aware that the other persona exists. When the Mr. Hyde persona (i.e. the persona with BPD) comes out, the PBPD loses all recollection that the loved one is actually a genuine love one. Again, the loved one is instead viewed as having always been an unworthy and manipulative person who the PBPD never really cared for. From a loved one’s perspective, the two distinct personalities appear as two very different people (and they might as well be), each with their own separate memories and behaviors. In fact, the two personalities view reality itself very differently. It is important for loved ones to become familiar with the behaviors of each personality and know which personality they are dealing with at all times.
At the exact moment of Devaluation, PBPDs may start planning and implementing their exit strategy from the relationship (since they now hate/dislike the other person). The PBPD may unconsciously create a false and negative narrative regarding the former loved one, justifying any actions the PBPD takes. Typically, this involves a lot of rationalization as well as the elaborate manipulation and gaslighting of the former loved one that PBPDs are known for.
Rationalization, manipulation, distortions and gaslighting are not done consciously or with malice, but are simply the result of whatever the PBPD feels is true at the time. As mentioned previously, PBPD perception of reality is based on present feelings (and during Devaluation, they will believe, beyond any doubt, that the former loved one is a person with little to no worth).
This is as part of the famous “I hate you, don’t leave me” phase. In this phase the PBPD will be emotionally distant and very mean to the former loved one (“I hate you”), but at the same time, due to the Fear of Abandonment, they will also take steps to convince the former loved one not to disappear from their life (“don’t leave me”). Needless to say this is a very toxic phase. Alternatively, a PBPD may suddenly disappear from the former loved one’s life completely (they now want nothing to do with the devalued loved one) while the Fear of Abandonment may cause them reappear later.
It’s possible for the PBPD to slowly love the devalued person again (after all, the person they liked initially is still the same person), starting the cycle of idealization and devaluation all over again. Until the PBPD receives treatment, devaluation of loved ones is inevitable and at some point, this cycle will break into permanent devaluation.
To those familiar with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), this repeating cycle similar to the famous NPD cycle (popularly known as the “Idealization, Devaluation, Discard, charm” cycle), but it is rooted in completely different reasons (as explained above).
The Broccoli allegory:
A silly, but easy to explain way of how BPD works in relationships is this following allegory involving delicious broccoli: Imagine that you really like broccoli, and you want it to be a healthy part of your life. If you have BPD, the disorder will cause you to fear that broccoli will disappear from your life forever and you will no longer be able to have it: “I am sure the broccoli market will collapse and I will not longer be able to get it from anywhere!” The fear is overwhelming and you start to hate and devalue broccoli rather than lose it: “You know what? I never really liked broccoli and I don’t care if I will not be able to have it in the future anymore. It tastes terrible and I am sure it’s bad for me. I want nothing to do with broccoli and I am cutting out of my life.”
BPD will also cause you to forget that you ever liked broccoli, and create false memories and false rationalizations of the past: “Why was I eating broccoli until now? I am sure there is a reason. Maybe I was eating broccoli because my roommate always brought some home, and I only ate broccoli because I used it with that sauce that I like. I only liked the sauce, not the broccoli! Yeah, I am sure that was the only reason. After all, broccoli sucks and I would never genuine like it. In fact, now that I think about it, I was not really eating broccoli all that often anyways, and the very few times I was, I certainly never cared for it”.
Then, you may stop eating broccoli altogether: “Good thing I no longer have to deal with that disgusting broccoli”. With that said, fear of abandonment is central to BPD and it does not go away: “Maybe I should not cut broccoli completely out of my life. I think I will keep it around a bit - even though I certainly don’t like it and will treat it with the contempt it deserves”.
Then, because you actually like broccoli, you may start warming up to it again: “Oh hey, this broccoli does not taste bad! It really should be part of my life!”
At that point, the Cycle begins all over again until the circumstances are such that you permanently devalue broccoli forever (even though, if not for BPD, there would be no reasons you would not be enjoying broccoli for the rest of your life). Again, this allegory is a bit silly, but hopefully it makes a good point.
Another important aspect to remember which is common with many PBPDs is that the Black and White Thinking causes PBPDs to Project their own flaws or bad behaviors on others. This type of thinking is the reason why many PBPDs find it difficult to admit fault even against overwhelming evidence. For a PBPD, admitting fault in anything would, in the PBDP’s mind, mean that the he/she is “bad”. Therefore, the “bad” actions or behaviors are often Projected on others.
BPD may also cause “Unstable of a Sense of Self”. PBPDs find it difficult to form a coherent image of themselves and their likes/dislikes. As such, when PBPDs Idealize someone, they will often change their personality to match that person’s (as there are unsure of what their own personality is). This “chameleon effect” can occur both consciously and unconsciously. There are many stories of previously idealized persons, reconnecting with their PBPD former loved ones, and being very surprised that the PBPD now has a very different personality than the one they were familiar with.
There is also a distinction in behavior between Traditional and Quiet BPD. A person with “Traditional BPD” will express intense bouts of anger and rage towards the former loved one, while a person with “Quiet BPD” will simply become cold and distant. (Note: Quiet PBPDs experience the same intense anger as Traditional PBPDs, but instead of expressing those feelings outwards, they are internalized).
It is important to note that PBPD s Idealize and Devalue themselves as well as others. They may confident and proud in themselves one moment, but the next moment see themselves as terrible persons who do not deserve love, friendships or success in life.
BPD can cause a host of other symptoms, such as: Getting angry or upset very easily and finding it difficult to calm down (“Emotion Dysregulation”); unstable sense of self (due to the intense emotionality, PBPDs have a hard time knowing who they are or what they like and dislike) as well as strong feelings of emptiness ( “Identity Dysregulation”); impulsivity, drug use, promiscuity, binge-eating or shopping due to the intense emotions and feelings of emptiness; self-destructive behaviors such as sabotaging close relationships or even self-harm (the self destructive behaviors are called “Behavioral Dysregulation”); difficulty to admit fault and “projection” of fault to others; disassociation from reality under stress (and/or hallucinations) as well as incorrect perception of reality (“delusions”) (called “Cognitive Dysregulation”) ; and ultimately an extremely high rate of suicide (up to 70% of PBPDs will attempt suicide and 1 in 10 will commit suicide).
BPD can range from Mild (people with Mild BPD are considered “high-functioning”) to Severe (people with Severe BPD have trouble functioning, i.e. holding doing a job, taking care of themselves etc.).
Not all PBPDs exhibit the same symptoms and in fact, there is great variation of how BPD manifests in different people.
BPD is a serious and dangerous condition and one of the four “Cluster B” Personality Disorders (Antisocial, Narcissistic, Borderline, and Histrionic) that are characterized by dramatic, overly emotional or unpredictable thinking or behavior. It is imperative that PBPDs receive professional treatment.
Unfortunately, many psychologists appear to lack to skills to properly diagnose BPD and it is often misdiagnosed or even left undiagnosed.

[Couscous]

I personally have acquired a pretty solid understanding of BPD behavior, and truth be told, this knowledge has not helped me feel better  — not even in the slightest. I recently learned that the reason for this is that our logical brain isn’t actually able to communicate with our feeling brain.

Processing our painful feelings of grief and/or shame triggered by the breakdown of the relationship, either on our own or with the help of a counselor, is truly the only way out of the emotional quagmire. 

[Morten]

I personally have acquired a pretty solid understanding of BPD behavior, and truth be told, this knowledge has not helped me feel better  — not even in the slightest. I recently learned that the reason for this is that our logical brain isn’t actually able to communicate with our feeling brain.

Processing our painful feelings of grief and/or shame triggered by the breakdown of the relationship, either on our own or with the help of a counselor, is truly the only way out of the emotional quagmire. 

I agree. Find out why you did what you did, why you accepted what you did and rebuilding one self is key. Reading and watching videos about BPD works only for a few hours/days for me.

[Gutt3rSnipe]

I personally have acquired a pretty solid understanding of BPD behavior, and truth be told, this knowledge has not helped me feel better  — not even in the slightest. I recently learned that the reason for this is that our logical brain isn’t actually able to communicate with our feeling brain.

Processing our painful feelings of grief and/or shame triggered by the breakdown of the relationship, either on our own or with the help of a counselor, is truly the only way out of the emotional quagmire.  

It makes me feel a bit better, at least in the regard that it wasn’t my fault. I agree though, it won’t take away the unbelievable pain of losing the person you loved. I went from her perfect soulmate to someone she could barely stand to be around for no reason grounded in reality. Even worse she left me for her “abusive ex”. Trust me, I understand learning about the disorder can’t take away the pain. I just like to read about it to reassure myself honestly.

[Couscous]

This book looks like it could be helpful: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=303828.0

[Pook075]

It makes me feel a bit better, at least in the regard that it wasn’t my fault. I agree though, it won’t take away the unbelievable pain of losing the person you loved. I went from her perfect soulmate to someone she could barely stand to be around for no reason grounded in reality. Even worse she left me for her “abusive ex”. Trust me, I understand learning about the disorder can’t take away the pain. I just like to read about it to reassure myself honestly.

Well, the big takeaway is that it's not your fault...none of this is in the grand scheme of things.  Even if you messed up and said/did things you shouldn't have, it happens in relationships every single day.  The key in a healthy relationship is working through that stuff together, forgiving mistakes, etc.  With BPD, that's basically impossible without therapy and a willingness to change.

So while it doesn't take away the pain, it does help to know that this wasn't on you personally.  It was going to happen to some unlucky guy no matter what.

In my case, once I realized that my marriage ended for basically nothing at all, and there was nothing I could have done differently, it was hard to stay upset about it.  And the more I realized that my wife is sick, the more I accepted that I don't want to spend the rest of my life wondering when she's going to paint me black and walk away again over nothing.  It's a horrible way to live and nobody deserves to be treated that way.

Could my marriage still be saved?  Sure.  But I deserve better than what I received and I'm not pushing to have my heart ripped out all over again.  If she gets in therapy and wants to make real efforts, then maybe there's a chance.  I just don't want to wait around for that though.  We all deserve to be happy and it took me 7 months to reach this conclusion.

Do I still miss her from time to time?  Absolutely.  But then I remind myself that the person I miss isn't actually who she is today...and it's possible she never was that person.

[Couscous]

It makes me feel a bit better, at least in the regard that it wasn’t my fault. I agree though, it won’t take away the unbelievable pain of losing the person you loved. I went from her perfect soulmate to someone she could barely stand to be around for no reason grounded in reality. Even worse she left me for her “abusive ex”. Trust me, I understand learning about the disorder can’t take away the pain. I just like to read about it to reassure myself honestly.

The problem is that the reassurance you may feel doesn’t last. You have to go much deeper. If you could begin addressing your unconscious belief, which is probably something along the lines of, “If I am rejected then it means I am unlovable”, I think this would go a long way towards alleviating the pain you are in. It’s not an overnight process, but eventually you will be able to depersonalize the “discard” and accept that it really never was about you.

[Gutt3rSnipe]

The problem is that the reassurance you may feel doesn’t last. You have to go much deeper. If you could begin addressing your unconscious belief, which is probably something along the lines of, “If I am rejected then it means I am unlovable”, I think this would go a long way towards alleviating the pain you are in. It’s not an overnight process, but eventually you will be able to depersonalize the “discard” and accept that it really never was about you.

Well, the big takeaway is that it's not your fault...none of this is in the grand scheme of things.  Even if you messed up and said/did things you shouldn't have, it happens in relationships every single day.  The key in a healthy relationship is working through that stuff together, forgiving mistakes, etc.  With BPD, that's basically impossible without therapy and a willingness to change.

So while it doesn't take away the pain, it does help to know that this wasn't on you personally.  It was going to happen to some unlucky guy no matter what.

In my case, once I realized that my marriage ended for basically nothing at all, and there was nothing I could have done differently, it was hard to stay upset about it.  And the more I realized that my wife is sick, the more I accepted that I don't want to spend the rest of my life wondering when she's going to paint me black and walk away again over nothing.  It's a horrible way to live and nobody deserves to be treated that way.

Could my marriage still be saved?  Sure.  But I deserve better than what I received and I'm not pushing to have my heart ripped out all over again.  If she gets in therapy and wants to make real efforts, then maybe there's a chance.  I just don't want to wait around for that though.  We all deserve to be happy and it took me 7 months to reach this conclusion.

Do I still miss her from time to time?  Absolutely.  But then I remind myself that the person I miss isn't actually who she is today...and it's possible she never was that person.

It’s strange, because even though I know logically it wasn’t my fault, for some strange reason I still feel like there’s something I could’ve done/said surely to prevent this. I just shouldn’t have to constantly reassure myself this much, ya know? I just hope I can eventually get to the point were you and Couscous are at and can fully except that it wasn’t me, it was her mental disorder that ruined things. It’s not like they’re at all transparent about what’s going on in their heads during the actual relationship. I thought everything was going great until I find out it wasn’t in her mind. Why hide their fears and slowly emotionally check out of the relationship? Subconsciously done?

[Pook075]

It’s strange, because even though I know logically it wasn’t my fault, for some strange reason I still feel like there’s something I could’ve done/said surely to prevent this. I just shouldn’t have to constantly reassure myself this much, ya know? I just hope I can eventually get to the point were you and Couscous are at and can fully except that it wasn’t me, it was her mental disorder that ruined things. It’s not like they’re at all transparent about what’s going on in their heads during the actual relationship. I thought everything was going great until I find out it wasn’t in her mind. Why hide their fears and slowly emotionally check out of the relationship? Subconsciously done?

It's self-sabotage, almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Negative thoughts get stuck in a loop and they try to process how to escape that loop, only to add more fuel to the fire in the process.  To escape, they essentially come up with an alternate reality- he's never really loved me, etc.  Even though it's a lie, it's something they can accept because it's easier than the truth (they're messed up in the head and can't accept that they're doing this to themselves). 

That's why I feel compassion for my BPD wife, and I do my best not to get mad anymore.  It's not her fault that she processes thoughts in an unhealthy, self destructive way. 

[Manic Miner]

That's why I feel compassion for my BPD wife, and I do my best not to get mad anymore.  It's not her fault that she processes thoughts in an unhealthy, self destructive way. 

True. They are damaged and wired differently. It's a sickness of mind.
When times are good that sickness and curse can come out as a beautiful thing, devotion and incredible artistic performance. The most loving and charming and caring person you ever met. And we probably forever long for that period to come again. It is, after all, just another side of the same coin.

[Emaanbillah]

trying to logically explain never really works with someone who is organized at the borderline level.    logically explaining invalidates their perspective.  literally hundreds of members here have spent endless hours logically "proving" that some event didn't happen, some perception wasn't true and making their relationship worse for every hour they spent.

'ducks

Have you found in your experience that acknowledging the pwBPD's feelings and expressing the disparity in experiences as "my perspective" vs "your perspective" to be helpful in communicating your thoughts?