They sure mess you up sexually

[Depression = 72% of members]

This isn’t a vulgar post with any sordid details, but man, do they mess you up on this front. All the manipulations, all the screwed up expectations, guilt trips, boundaries and honestly control fueled hyper seductions. And like I almost think in some ways it can be worse than the heartache, since it’s such a basal thing, that you can’t escape the effect it has on you.

[NarcsEverywhere]

This isn’t a vulgar post with any sordid details, but man, do they mess you up on this front. All the manipulations, all the screwed up expectations, guilt trips, boundaries and honestly control fueled hyper seductions. And like I almost think in some ways it can be worse than the heartache, since it’s such a basal thing, that you can’t escape the effect it has on you.

[NarcsEverywhere]

So I'm bringing this up in slightly more detail, because this hurt me a lot, and I didn't realize it was affecting me so much and it's a bit hard to talk about, and I surely don't want to make this inappropriate, but I'm sure other people have suffered the same issues, so I am going to do it, because it'll help me to share, and I think it might help others, even if you don't want to talk about it or respond.

So, with my BPDexGF like 20 years ago, she basically did all of the above to me surrounding sex, and it instilled this horrible guilt/shame based sexuality in me, where I always thought I was horrible, no matter what I did. Then I spent a long time developing healthy attitudes about it, and good decision making, it took years to do this. Anyways, I thought I was doing well on this front.

Flashforward to the past 3 years lets say? And anyways, I got involved with a small handful of women who did this to me, again, where I compromised myself again, and put up with way too much again, and got guilt tripped for their abuse of me on this front, and disregarded completely, like my needs and wants didn't matter on this front, and was shamed in a literal sense by one of them. Anyways, I did this, because I was vulnerable from certain hardships I experienced in my life.

But this is what I have to say:
Sex isn't something that you should feel like crap about no matter what you do, it shouldn't be a constant struggle through shame and guilt, and feeling like you just can't win. Judging yourself on this front is absolutely horrible for ones mental health.   Anyways, after all this happened, it's like it's been a constant struggle to feel okay about things, and more natural, and I thought it was because of internalizing random anger, or depression, or my own issues, but no. These women messed me up.

Last night I was doing this Narcissistic abuse meditation, which by the way, is freaking awesome, but anyways, these people popped into my mind, as I was relaxed, and I had this horrible anxiety and heavy panting (out of anxiety and fear, and other such emotions, not sexual, btw), and I started to feel a bit cleansed on this front, and I was like, WOW, this affected me so much more than I realized.

By the way here is the meditation, if anyone wants it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFccWzeiGZk

It's more geared towards child/parent relationships, and it had nothing specifically to do with sex, but it's exactly what I've been needing, since it allows me to get into my body, and relax, and acknowledge mistreatment, and have healthy attitudes about myself.

Anyways, I'm going to go journal some anger about this, it's been ignored by me far too much.

Edit: Okay, so the level of emotions and hyper awareness was overwhelming this morning, but I think I got through it. With my level of trauma, I probably need to do this occasionally or not even finish it, I’m glad it accessed it, and cleansed some stuff, but there’s no way I could do that every day. Might vary by person, still love the meditation.

[keepitup]

Hey Narcs,

I am so glad you brought up this topic.

I am sorry you are going through this and in a sense relieved to know I am not the only one with these feelings.

I was pretty confident in myself and at ease with my sexuality before going out with my exbpdbf. Now, well, I have a hard time figuring out how I will be able to sleep with another man again. I don't know how I'll be able to trust someone and being comfortable enough to be intimate with them.

I have been guilt tripped too a lot, he completely disregarded my boundaries, he made fun of the concept of consent, I have been shamed for the way I look, and yes, the expectations were out of this world.

But this is what I have to say:
Sex isn't something that you should feel like crap about no matter what you do, it shouldn't be a constant struggle through shame and guilt, and feeling like you just can't win. Judging yourself on this front is absolutely horrible for ones mental health.   Anyways, after all this happened, it's like it's been a constant struggle to feel okay about things, and more natural, and I thought it was because of internalizing random anger, or depression, or my own issues, but no. These women messed me up.

It's good advice and I think you hit the nail by putting this emphasis on the impact it has on someone.

It helps me too to remember that I was not always this ashamed of myself. There was a time where I was confident. I also realized that despite the reality twisting my bpdex did, saying I was the sole problem in the bedroom, that was not the truth. Thinking back on it, I had healthy behaviors whereas he did not. But I was told the opposite, I fell for it, and it messed me up.

That's my glimpse of hope for the future, bringing me back to what I know is healthy and refusing to go back in a relationship where I feel abused or shamed in any way. Easier said than done, I know! ;)

[NarcsEverywhere]

I’m glad someone relates and that it helps, it kind of helps me to know I’m not alone in it too. I just did this online, it’s a lot worse in person like I did with my exBPDgf, so I’m sorry that happened to you.

And I was really confident back then on most days, because I had great communication, and gave a crap what people wanted, but the thing is the one girl just confused me so much, I didn’t understand what was happening, and used my friends suicide to muddy the waters. And then I posted about Narcissism so other people would be warned, which caused a target on my back. So the next girls strategy was a barrage of boundary crosses, masked as consideration, then guilt trips, and insane expectations when I said I didn’t feel well. This is stuff I never would have worked on me before. So mad about it.

Yeah, I mean you should have a say in what you want done to you, and what you want to do, even more so with your body. Kinda surprised that just this stuff online hurt me this bad, but I guess I was pretty involved.

We will get back there. I dunno, I feel like a lot of this stuff with trauma is about getting in your body more.

[NarcsEverywhere]

This meditation brings up repressed emotions. One thing I am realizing is that the combination of diving deep with someone and then having them throw you away like garbage is hard for the heart to reconcile.

I always say the true test of a person’s character is when things get hard, do they completely neglect their responsibility or rise to the occasion. Do they do the petty and small thing, or do they at least try to make things right.

It’s not that anyone has to be perfect, I sure as hell am not. But me, I can live with my karma, as dark as some of it is, because I know I at least try. They’ll have to live with theirs, I’m not taking responsibility for other people’s shortcomings. They’re the ones who have to live with themselves, I can live with myself.

[NarcsEverywhere]

So, like, one of the things that turned me away from following a religion is that they all want you to give up sex or be some saint sexually, and it's a total buzz kill, and it also causes so much inner conflict with people. I also feel like a lot of these traumas both of a sexual nature and otherwise, can cause sexual issues. Such as a shame/impulse/guilt/regret/fear of yourself, complex that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

Anyways, about 5-7 years ago or so, I used my creativity to make a prayer/meditation, whatever you want to call it, to help with that, as I was tired of feeling like crap, despite all my best efforts to work on myself, and it totally seems to help me feel sexy and comfortable with myself. I know this is not really a good place to get all sexual, but at the same time, it's like, we at least need to talk about it enough to heal on this level, so I am going to take a bit of a risk at being inappropriate and put this out there anyways.

Sexytime Prayer
------------------------
May I forgive my sexual mistakes
Not judge myself, and accept myself sexually
Feel sexy in my body and mind
Be sexually free, and express my sexuality
Connect to myself and others for kinky fun and sexual pleasure

Now this could be customized to other people, so I'll make a template here, that people could use to make it suitable for them.

May I forgive my sexual mistakes
Not judge myself, and accept myself sexually
Feel sexy in my body and mind
May connect to my (gender identity or biological gender), without being imprisoned by it  
May I be sexually free, and express my sexuality
May I connect to myself and my partner(s), for kinky and/or sensual fun and pleasure

// Note here, it's important to not be imprisoned by your gender, because you'll feel enslaved to it, and no matter how much you love it, it'll destroy you and suffocate you. I love being a guy and masculine, and generally love mannerisms and modes of expressing that align with that, but if it means I can't cry, be insecure sometimes, be needy sometimes, or be cute or silly sometimes (when I think it's appropriate, then I think that's misery). But if you don't want to say that, you can do it your own way and learn that lesson yourself. Personally, I connect to my gender without a prayer, but I think it's something that could possibly help.

Anyways, I normally say it 1-3 times when I feel like it, and it seems to help, enjoy!

Anyways, I made this extended version for myself last night, since it feels more complete to be honest. Gonna try it out.

May I forgive my sexual mistakes and cope with any trauma without shame
May I accept my sexuality and not judge myself for it
May I be as sexually healthy as possible without constraint
May I feel sexy in my body and mind
May I creatively express myself freely physically and mentally
May I connect to my masculinity without being imprisoned by it
May I connect to myself and others for kinky fun and sensual pleasure

[jaded7]

Hey Narcs,

I am so glad you brought up this topic.

I am sorry you are going through this and in a sense relieved to know I am not the only one with these feelings.

I was pretty confident in myself and at ease with my sexuality before going out with my exbpdbf. Now, well, I have a hard time figuring out how I will be able to sleep with another man again. I don't know how I'll be able to trust someone and being comfortable enough to be intimate with them.

I have been guilt tripped too a lot, he completely disregarded my boundaries, he made fun of the concept of consent, I have been shamed for the way I look, and yes, the expectations were out of this world.

It's good advice and I think you hit the nail by putting this emphasis on the impact it has on someone.

It helps me too to remember that I was not always this ashamed of myself. There was a time where I was confident. I also realized that despite the reality twisting my bpdex did, saying I was the sole problem in the bedroom, that was not the truth. Thinking back on it, I had healthy behaviors whereas he did not. But I was told the opposite, I fell for it, and it messed me up.

That's my glimpse of hope for the future, bringing me back to what I know is healthy and refusing to go back in a relationship where I feel abused or shamed in any way. Easier said than done, I know! ;)

I'm glad this thread is here. I wrote in my thread this week (speaking the truth, no effect) about some of this, but boy oh boy did she mess me up in this area.

I told her I was sexually abused as child, I told her my last gf come over to my place (for the first time in months) one day to have sex, then dumped me the next day and it really sent me into a spiral when I had the thought "she used me one last time and made the effort to come over knowing she was going to dump me the next day"...oh boy did I go down, hard. It took a ton of work to get over that, including a visit to a psych hospital for sexual trauma.

I told my ex this, I told her that sex was about connecting and being close. I told her that I could be really hurt by insensitivity, or worse, around sex.

And yet...within months she was snapping at me...during sex. Getting angry. Saying "oh my gosh what are doing!" When she wanted sex she pointed at me when I was getting dressed out of the shower and said "stop that! stop! what are you doing? don't put those on we going to bed!" or pointing at me and saying "get those off, what are you doing?"

Changing one day, she looked at me and said "what, are you wearing old man underwear now? Don't I wear nice underwear for you?"

On her birthday, after taking her on a kayaking trip, out to a $200 dinner, gave her a $85 foot treatment at a great spa my female friends said was the best, we went to bed and she was turned away from me, curled up. I snuggled up to her and put my arm around her...she sat there cold and distant. I asked her if she just wanted to go to sleep, she got angry and said "if you want sex, touch me in a sexy way!"

Says the woman who points at me and tells me to take my clothes off.

I had a boba tea one day, "you eat PLEASE READty food, and when you do that it makes me not want to have sex with you!"

She withdrew sex for months, ignored my texts and calls to come over...simply ignored them, or responded with "walk at the park at 1?". That's the response to me saying, looking forward to you coming over and connecting!"

When I asked her about why our sex life had so dramatically changed, her response was angry yelling "this is all about your sexual abuse!" I later got out of her that she was ignoring my texts and calls, no sex for months because "I was reevaluating the relationship because I wasn't sure I wanted to be with someone who was excited about partnering with ________ (the most famous person in my businesses' field, know worldwide by name).

I asked her months later when she hit my arm away from me trying to gather/greet her into bed when she was coming to bed, twice, what has happened with our physical relationship and she responded by exploding at me "You wanna fight? Is that what you want? Ok, let go at it...RIGHT NOW. I'm awake, let's fight!"

She completely messed me up. It's now three years and I'm still messed up, can't and won't date anyone, don't know if I'll ever be intimate with anyone ever again. It's just so painful.

[NarcsEverywhere]

Yeah, sounds like she acted very entitled because of her insecurities, and expectations, and wasn't sensitive to your situation.

I'll try to relate the best I can, since our situations were different. Back when I was 17, and my exBPDgf was 24, she knew more about this stuff than me, although we were both definitely sexually unhealthy. She used sex to control me, would violate me, tell me to violate her, guilt trip me for doing so, withhold sex just to dive me insane, after initially piling it on to control me. There was no winning with her, and I am generally not proud of my own behavior back then and wouldn't do any of it today.

The number one thing that made it impossible, was our lack of communication. Also, I think if you're both not on the same page through that communication on what you both do and don't want, then it's kind of impossible to work things out.  Once all the abuse made us have all this distance, it was a lost cause, and trying to make it work under that context, was never going to happen. But I do think I had good intentions and tried to rectify things, until I was an abused zombie. She on the other hand, was taking out every single insecurity and trauma on me, and then giving me no understanding for my own insecurities and baggage. I can't say I was perfect on this front either, but I think I did a lot better than she did.

Glad now a days, there is more awareness about consent and boundaries, it might not have gone down as poorly, had that been the case. I think the number one thing to me in this case is intentions. If your intentions are not to improve the relationship, sexually or otherwise, but just to win at some power game, or something, then that's straight up abuse, and your intentions will cause things to degenerate. Sorry you were treated with insensitivity, and a sense of entitlement, women can act entitled too, my exBPDgf did at first, that way she didn't have to deal with her insecurities. Glad it helped. Hard to deal with the shame of it all, when you feel like you can't even mention it.

[jaded7]

Yeah, sounds like she acted very entitled because of her insecurities, and expectations, and wasn't sensitive to your situation.

I'll try to relate the best I can, since our situations were different. Back when I was 17, and my exBPDgf was 24, she knew more about this stuff than me, although we were both definitely sexually unhealthy. She used sex to control me, would violate me, tell me to violate her, guilt trip me for doing so, withhold sex just to dive me insane, after initially piling it on to control me. There was no winning with her, and I am generally not proud of my own behavior back then and wouldn't do any of it today.

The number one thing that made it impossible, was our lack of communication. Also, I think if you're both not on the same page through that communication on what you both do and don't want, then it's kind of impossible to work things out.  Once all the abuse made us have all this distance, it was a lost cause, and trying to make it work under that context, was never going to happen. But I do think I had good intentions and tried to rectify things, until I was an abused zombie. She on the other hand, was taking out every single insecurity and trauma on me, and then giving me no understanding for my own insecurities and baggage. I can't say I was perfect on this front either, but I think I did a lot better than she did.

Glad now a days, there is more awareness about consent and boundaries, it might not have gone down as poorly, had that been the case. I think the number one thing to me in this case is intentions. If your intentions are not to improve the relationship, sexually or otherwise, but just to win at some power game, or something, then that's straight up abuse, and your intentions will cause things to degenerate. Sorry you were treated with insensitivity, and a sense of entitlement, women can act entitled too, my exBPDgf did at first, that way she didn't have to deal with her insecurities. Glad it helped. Hard to deal with the shame of it all, when you feel like you can't even mention it.

Yes, the communication thing about the physical side is important. You seem to do it well, then with the abuse and withdrawing and withholding, you became confused and didn't know how to respond. To me, this is normal.

And intentions. To improve the relationship by talking or listening and being present, to improve the connection with physical intimacy, to be close to the other. These are all normal and healthy in my book.

The power game is key. I have no desire to have power over another, none at all. She seemed to relish it, then get mad at me when she had it. Confusing.

Entitlement, oh did she act entitled. You can tell from what I wrote above.

I turned her down for sex, one time in our whole relationship. It was late, she'd come over  unexpectedly because she said she was upset because her ex husband was in town...so of course I said come on over, we can sit on the deck. This was about 8 or 9, and I usually went to bed at 9 or 9:30 since I had to get up at 5:15am for my business. She knew this of course. Around 10 she said she wanted to go to bed to have sex, and I said gently and kindly that I was really tired and needed to get to sleep. EXPLOSION. Anger. Accusations about not valuing the relationship. I was shocked. I just needed to go to bed.

She on the other hand withheld sex, ignored my communications to come over to connect, stopped coming over on her own with no explanation, and turned me down for sex 4 times in a single weekend. I of course, as a person should, just said ok honey..night, see you in the morning.

Confusing. Mean. Double standards.

[NarcsEverywhere]

I actually think sex is about power, the power two people have over each other, the power to read each other, to seduce each other, to take a risk, to assert, to be bold, or to show restraint. There’s competing forces between explicit consent, spontaneity. There’s some level of intimacy, even when it’s not affectionate. I think most men opt for the less affectionate variety because most women will destroy intimacy by rejecting a guys sorrows, and insecurities, and any sort of neediness, and see them as defects.

Anyways, yeah, I was young, targeted for my immaturity, I don’t feel too bad.

Yeah a lot of women can’t handle sexual rejection of any sort, it’s why I’ve been targeted. Sounds like yours played a lot of games too. That’s the sort of power thing I hate. This girl I met on a sex site used her power to target my hardship, manipulated me into changing things about my sexuality that I’d never would have changed, and had other guys doing the same,  even had her shame me, knit picked. She was good at it, she even had guys all helping her with her homework, and would accuse men of consent violations to control them. She plays the perfect victim though, so she’ll probably get away with it. Which is why I’m such a stickler for women being held accountable too.

Sounds like yours couldn’t handle rejection and ignored and targeted your vulnerabilities. Probably had this man up attitude from the sounds of it, I hate that too. If I had a dollar for every woman that treated me like that, I’d be rich! One of my biggest pet peeves.